Which flop is better?
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello BYTEMAN
BYT> I have a 5.25" flop at home and can buy it cheap
BYT> any 3.5" flops. Which is better to choose? What is more reliable for storage
BYT> data? What do you choose???
I've had 3.5" for a long time now.
In general, it’s better to have both if space allows, but Max has both -
convenient.
Hello, All
I have a 5.25" flop at home and have the opportunity to buy it as cheaply as
Any 3.5" flops. Which is better to choose? What is more reliable for storing data? What
do you choose???
Hello BYTEMAN
BYT> I have a 5.25" flop at home and can buy it cheap
BYT> any 3.5" flops. Which is better to choose? What is more reliable for storage
BYT> data?
Monopoly. Under which floppy drive you use more disks ;)
From the available statistics from Amiga times - double 5.25 is much better than
Double 3.5, however, high 3.5 rule just like double 5.25. Well, since
you under 3.5 are only bad, then one thing...
BYT> What do you choose???
I keep it on my pussy, I write it at 3.5, because this flop does not hurt my feet so much
:D and you don’t have to think about where to put it. And he eats much less.
ZY In nature there is a circuit for supporting 1.44 MB disks.
Hello Orionsoft
And may I also love ISOT EU 5323.01, just a beast :) And TEACov, by the way, was Tueva
there are a bunch of varieties, right now I’m holding in my hands the flop guide on the frame
raised letters TEAC, on the chipset also on the boards, looked at the sticker on it
ass, and there... K 5601... ROBOTRON... HERGESTTELLT IN DDR... :v2_lol;
AND; there is still a still alive Electronics MS 5313 :D
Hello fan
Because I don’t use a floppy drive on PC, I think it will be transferred and connected to zx
and from the 5 inch I love the electronics ms 5305, robotron K5601/CM 5643 and so on
the iconic TEAC of course!
Hello fan
fan> By the way, there were a ton of varieties of TEACs, I’m just holding them now
fan> in hand is a flop guide with raised letters TEAC on the frame, on the chipset
fan> also on the boards, I looked at the sticker on his ass, and there... K
fan> 5601... ROBOTRON... HERGESTTELLT IN DDR...
Well, they just re-glued the sticker under their Robotron systems.
I have TEACs in my collection that have a sticker on their butt with the inscription
sticker. In general, I have a large collection of different 5.25 and 3.5 inch drives.
Hello Costa
I have both drives in Scorpio. However, as I noticed, floppy disks are 5.25 and
the information on them lasts much longer, so I prefer this type of drive and
floppy disks, despite the convenience of a 3.5" floppy drive and floppy disks. I even have up to
Last moment the PC had a 5.25" drive made by Samsung, but after
replacement of the motherboard (upgrade), support for two drives disappeared and I had to
abandon the large drive in favor of 3.5".
Hello fan
fan> ... I am holding in my hands a flop guide with raised letters TEAC on the frame
fan> the chipset is also on the boards, I looked at the sticker on its ass, and
fan> there... K 5601... ROBOTRON... HERGESTTELLT IN DDR...
I also have a 5.25" TEAS with the Robotron label. Iron beast! What can I do with it?
did some crazy stuff, even confused 5 and 12 volts in places - ALIVE! :)
But with the “three rubles” not everything is going smoothly for me... DD’s guy ordered me to live long, but HD
it took a long time to select so that readability would be problem-free...
However, I made the choice in favor of the three-ruble note, since we have 5.25" disks during the day
fire"... ;)
Hello BYTEMAN
It's not about which drive, but what floppy disks!!! No, well, of course the drive itself
is important, but today almost 100% of 3.5 floppy disks do not withstand even 5
rewrites!!! I already have about a hundred of these floppy disks at home with broken tracks.
However, I have about 3000 5.25 floppies, of which only 10 are broken
sectors. I went to SpeXtream with them and they were recorded back in 1996,
no failure. That's why I choose only 5.25, in those days they hadn't tried it yet
make each bolt-tongue-nut cheaper so as not to lose a penny. Although the same
I have 3.5 floppy disks bought back in 1996, the whole pack
still works great to this day.
Hello fan
fan> What 3.5 floppy disks are you talking about?
I'm talking about those that need to be sealed :) I have almost no others (several
pieces don't count).
Hello, alexeenko
Cit> However, as I noticed, 5.25 floppy disks and the information on them last much longer
Cit> longer, so I prefer this drive and floppy disks, despite
Cit> convenience of a 3.5" floppy drive and floppy disks.
Rob> almost 100% of 3.5 floppy disks cannot withstand even 5 rewrites!!!
What kind of 3.5 floppy disks are you talking about? About dablovs or hayovs???
I myself had whole piles of the dead ones. Only among the high ones
"technology" flies and every obvious leftist.
Hello, CityAceE
Cit> I'm talking about those that need to be sealed
I could never understand - why? For me personally, it’s easier once and for all on the flop
short-circuit the sensor.
Hello bpm
bpm> I never could understand - why? For me personally, it’s easier once and for all
bpm> short-circuit the sensor on the flop.
For the sake of versatility - if you have to read them on an open flop.
Hello bpm
bpm>
Cit> I'm talking about those that need to be sealed
Cit>
Cit> I never could understand - why? For me personally, it’s easier once and for all
Cit> short-circuit the sensor on the flop.
And I could never understand people who short-circuit sensors. :) First of all,
The drive stops working on HD. Secondly, looking at a bunch of floppies, don't
you can figure out which ones are HD and which ones are DD. Thirdly, and most importantly, a DD floppy disk with
an unsealed hole will not work on a drive with unshorted
sensors.
Hello Robus
Just out of interest, a question: has anyone met ELECTRONICS MC5311? I have a computer
doesn’t want to fumble, lately the engine has started to turn completely... Previously, at least it was spinning,
and now only the light is on... What could happen to him?
Hello, Maksagor
> For the sake of versatility - if you have to read them in open-circuit
> flop.
On the Amiga there is a flop with a closed sensor, on the pussy - no. 720 format on pussy
and recording files, then we read on the Amiga, everything is ok. We write with Amiga, the pussy reads. What
Am I doing it wrong?
On the Spectrum, however, I didn’t shortcut anything, it’s 3"5-DD.
Hello fan
fan> What 3.5 floppy disks are you talking about? About doubles or highs???
fan> I myself had whole piles of the dead ones. Of the high ones only
fan> "technology" flies and every obvious leftist.
About those that are available in the store - that is, HD... Although I can’t say for sure
I can, who is to blame, either floppy disks or drives, but so far neither at work nor at home
I haven't had a single pack of floppy disks that lasted more than a year. I have 5.25 wheels
serve flawlessly. Although on the old PiCi, which I got in 1995
there was a flop TEAC-3.5 lives to this day and there are no complaints about it, but flops on PiCi
you have to use it as a last resort, because it’s sooooooooooooo unreliable.
I have TEACs on my Speccy and they work sooooooo reliably. It all depends on
production quality.
Hello BYTEMAN
BYT> Out of interest, a question: has anyone met ELECTRONICS MC5311? U
BYT> doesn't want to fiddle with my computer, lately the engine in general
BYT> became... Previously it was at least spinning, but now only the light is on... What's wrong
BYT> could it be?
I met this miracle... TEAC has a PLL, but ELECTRONICS does not. But he himself
reads well, and TEAC reads the recording on ELECTRONICS, but on the contrary... But
the symptoms of "non-operation" are more likely to look like the VG93 has failed...
Hello BYTEMAN
Once upon a time I had a scorp 256 and I had 2 disk assholes, one 3.5, and the second -
guano, excuse me, 5.25. So the latter was just a burden and there was no point in him
sticks. Moreover, 3.5 was built into the body, and the large one was over time
disabled. And in general, how long can you hang your specs with all sorts of junk? Why
is it necessary? The 21st century is just around the corner %))) :v2_tong2:
Hello fan
fan> Electronics MS 5313
what a beast! I had a Bulgarian-made mnu, it read only 40% of discs
no mistakes and made noise like a beast! I hated it, but the scorpion had a signature
Somehow, he read everything and always.
Hello, acidrain
aci> MNU was made in Bulgaria, it read only 40% of discs without
aci> errors and made noise like a beast!
Well, I don’t know, I already have a second one and no problems. You probably just
injured got caught.
Hello Robus
Rob> I met this miracle... TEAC has a PLL, but ELECTRONICS does not. But
Rob> he reads himself well, and he reads the TEAC record on ELECTRONICS, but
Rob> it's the other way around... But the symptoms of "non-working" are more like that
Rob> VG93 is out of order...
Is there a VG93 in PeTse? :v2_blink; Wild; I doubt...
Hello BYTEMAN
BYT> Is there a VG93 in PeTse? I doubt it...
I thought the flop didn't work on ZX =) ...
Hello Robus
Another question is the quality of the floppy disks. They brought me about 10 Bulgarian floppy disks
production. DS/DD. Some EU and further figures. Has anyone met these?
Are they working fine?
Hello BYTEMAN
BYT> Another question about the quality of floppy disks. They brought me about 10 Bulgarian floppy disks
BYT> production. DS/DD. Some EU and further figures. Has anyone met
BYT> like this? Are they working properly?
Normal, still alive :)
Hello Mike
Mik> Don't hesitate. I have such an ISA controller PC FDD/HDD with FDD
Mik> on the 93rd. More precisely, there is WD (Western Digital), which is similar in concept
Mik> VG93, itself the same and in the name of the four numbers there is 93. Not 100%, but
Mik> it looks like it. So where did this VG come from? Clearly an analogue of the bourgeois
Mik> controller from early PCs, type XT or AT.
The fact that this is an analogue is for sure, but my question is: how well made
this analogue? I would be very happy to buy WD for myself, but
will it be compatible with our VG and will bkdnt work the same, or better?
Hello BYTEMAN
BYT> Is there a VG93 in PeTse? :v2_blink; Wild; I doubt it...
Don't hesitate. :) I have such an ISA controller PC FDD/HDD with FDD to
93rd. More precisely, there is WD (Western Digital), similar in idea to VG93, itself
the same and in the name of the four numbers there is 93. Not 100%, but it is similar. So
where did this VG come from? Clearly an analogue of the bourgeois controller from early PCs,
type XT or AT.
Hello Robus
Rob> The fact that this is an analogue is for sure, but my question is: how good is it?
Rob> is this analogue made? I would be very happy to buy one for myself
Rob> exactly WD, but will it be compatible with our VG and will it work
Rob> the same, or better?
Analogue is analogue, but not from PC.
WD FD179X (X=1,2,3,4,5,7) are all quite compatible. At least
programmatically Some of them even have a built-in data separator.
But PCs originally had Intel 8272 or, what is the same, NEC u765.
It is not at all similar in registers.
It’s interesting that there are 2 options for branded disk controllers for the ZX, on both
options - WD & Intel/NEC.
Hello alexfreed
ale> Analog is analog, but not from PC.
ale> WD FD179X (X=1,2,3,4,5,7) all quite compatible. At least
ale> programmatically. Some of them even have a built-in data separator.
Built in WD2793
Hello Grand
Gra> The main thing is not to get caught by the EU 5288 SS/SD. There is a record on them, understandably
Gra> reasons, it will be less reliable.
I have EC 5287 "U3OM".
Hello BYTEMAN
At the company where I work, we still use 5.25 floppy disks (in
including the EU). Many were recorded back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and
work great. Although, I would recommend duplicating important information
(preferably 3.5) - anything can happen with old floppy disks.
Hello Grand
Gra> And I could never understand people who short-circuit sensors. Firstly,
Gra> the drive stops working on HD.
Does he need it if he’s on a ZX or Amiga?
Gra> Secondly, looking at a bunch of floppies, you can’t tell which ones are HD and which are DD.
Those in the Spectrum box are Spectrum ones. The rest are Amiga. A
those three that are without a box (DOS with ghost, fresh BIOS and bootable from
axle shafts) - from the pussy, there’s nothing to confuse here, especially since
Nobody has canceled the pen/pencil/felt-tip pen yet.
Gra> Thirdly, and most importantly, a DD floppy disk with an unsealed hole
Gra> will not work on a drive with open sensors.
Problems of the sheriff and blacks. I personally can read everything, if someone doesn’t,
then let him seal it himself. Moreover, now it’s easier to give a file over the Internet,
than on a floppy disk, floppy disks do not leave the house.
Hello Grand
Gra> At the company where I work, floppy disks are still used
Gra> 5.25 (including the EU). Many were recorded back in the late 1980s -
Gra> early 1990s, and they work great. Although, I would recommend
Gra> duplicate important information (better on 3.5) - with old floppy disks
Gra> anything can happen.
On the contrary, I would not recommend it. Too much new three-inch shit
goes straight into the trash after the third attempt at recording. While vintage
five-inch ones live and fail.
Hello Trantor
Tra> one power supply +5V.
Strange statement... All my 5.25" floppy drives were +5V & +12V. You can
explain your idea?
Tra> is not the terrible 1793 but 2797
But this is more interesting! What are their differences, besides nutrition? Are they compatible?
Hello, Ball Bess
It’s strange that no one paid attention to the obvious advantage of 5" flops -
one power supply +5V. Refusal from an extra power source is still essential (if
Of course, the controller is not the terrible 1793 but 2797).
Regarding reliability, it is true that everything depends on the quality of workmanship.
Remember the terrible Bulgarian, Soviet crafts and TEAC (by the way, all of them
were manufactured in India). The same picture with 3.5". Often encountered with elements
milling machine, instantly killing any floppy disk. At the same time, for example
The Epsons worked flawlessly.
The 79th series may well be found on expansion boards (for PCs). she
allows you to do things that are inaccessible to Intel. However, if someone doesn't
knows, the +3 Spectrum controller contains Intel.
Hello jdigreze
jdi> Strange statement... All my 5.25" floppy drives were +5V & +12V.
jdi> Can you explain your idea?
jdi>
Yes, he got it wrong, three-inch ones usually have a 12V leg on the power connector.
connected. And this is significant. I generate 12V for VG93 using
micropower single-transistor converter directly on the Beta disk board
interface, but only 5V comes from the main power supply, 12 is not needed at all.
Hello bpm
Could someone explain or give a link where the legality of sealing is?
window of a three-inch high-density floppy disk or shorting the sensors
disk drive explained from a physics point of view. Namely, the following confuses me.
Could it be that in addition to changing the disk rotation speed when recording
high-density (HD) or double-density (DD) floppy disks, the current value also changes
recording (to compensate for differences in the characteristics of the magnetic material of these
floppy disks)? That is, when the sensor says that the floppy disk is such and such, then the recording circuit
automatically adjusts to a certain current of the recording heads. And when
we deceive this scheme by saying that the floppy disk is not the same as in reality, then
Not only does the recording take place at a different rotation speed, but it’s also not optimal
for this floppy disk. Maybe, in addition to fiddling with sensors/windows, you can also
Should I correct something in the three-inch drive to increase recording reliability?
PS Yes, and in reading amplifiers some kind of correction may occur if
the amplitude and shape of the read signal differ for different materials...
Hello, Ball Bess
all doubts about the fact that the non-optimal recording current and others are bullshit, I’m in
time, when there was a shortage of floppy disks, I took broken ones out of the trash, sealed the window with them and
I used it like 720, there were no complaints (of course you have to take into account that floppy disks
were and so not quite in condition), I recently found such a floppy disk on it
the program has been preserved normally, after 2 years of not using it :), but what if
try to use 720 - drill a hole, then it's a mess
(the coercive force of the layer is not there), and the rotation speed at 3" generally seems
the same
Hello,geners
> But this is more interesting! What are their differences, besides nutrition? They
> compatible?
Of course they are compatible. Completely at the team level. Power supply is only 5V. Built-in
PLL. The compression was seriously simplified. I installed them on the latest versions of my system.
I don’t remember everything anymore.
By the way, why disable sensors on 3.5" drives if they have a line
DD/HD mode control? It does not affect the recording current and then glue the floppy disk
nothing is needed. But all this does not work correctly on all devices.
> Yes, he got it wrong, three-inch ones usually have a 12V leg on the power connector
> is not connected anywhere.
Thank you. That's right.
Hello Trantor
Tra> By the way, why disable sensors on 3.5" drives if they have them
Tra> DD/HD mode control line? It does not affect the recording current and
Tra> then there is no need to glue anything to the floppy disk. Only it all works correctly
Tra> is not available on all devices.
Tra>
Why? Probably because “it doesn’t work correctly on all devices”
:smile; ...;
Which leg is on the drive connector? How is it logically connected to the sensor,
controlling the floppy hole? What happens if the sensor says "HD" and the signal
from the interface - "DD"?
Hello, Ball Bess
> Which leg is on the drive connector? How is it logically connected to the sensor
> controlling the floppy hole? What happens if the sensor says
> "HD" and the signal from the interface is "DD" ?
You know, I’ve been doing this for so long that I don’t want to just misinform.
I remember that the leg is the outermost one, but what number is it.. :v2_confu; Probably; this is
Everything can be found on the Internet. I'll rummage through the remaining documentation at home and find -
I'll write.
I remember one thing for sure - he switched the drive to the guaranteed “720” mode. After
Therefore, the corresponding floppy disks were written absolutely correctly. But HD
You really have to seal it. But the drives, at the same time, still wrote
unreliable. After all, they believed that it was DD, they did not increase the current and speed. But this
there was only one way to use them. For any HDD use in
"720" mode is not possible. If you don't want data loss.
Hello Trantor
Look here:
http://www.interfacebus.com/PC_Floppy_Drive_PinOut.html
Density Select (pin 2), this is the signal for selecting the recording density. Please note
only that it shows the wiring accepted for IBM, which actually
non-standard. By standard, the drive has 4 selection lines and one start line
motor. IBM made it a little easier because they only had to manage two
drives.
Hello Trantor
By the way, let's talk about the recording current.
Notice what the signal on the second leg is called (in the above
documentation)? /REDWC, i.e. Reduced Wr. Current, reduced write current!
True, I remember something, it seems that this leg is not on all flops
connected. I'll have to check it out.
Hello, Ball Bess
In both 3.5" and 5.25" drives, if they are HD, this leg is used. Again -
IBM doesn't seem to use it.
Hello Trantor
Tra> Why do you value FDD in general so much? :v2_conf2;
Yes; why roads? This is the simplest and most affordable data storage solution after
tape recorder. Will someone connect a compact flash drive and teach everyone how to do it?
done - we will store it on it.
Hello Trantor
By the way, I blurted out nonsense above about the spindle rotation speed, 300 rpm
she always, except for one case: five-inch high pussy flops
density (1.2 MB) spin the floppy disk at a speed of 360 rpm.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/fdd/formatSummary-c.html
[http://www.pcguide.com/ref/fdd/formatSummary-c.html]
I even found a bourgeois site [http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi/525HDMOD.htm] with
recommendations on how to make a double-density drive from such a drive. So they
they write that the second leg is on 5.25 disk drives and the speed changes 300/360 rpm. What
She does it in a three-inch drive - I'm still figuring it out.
Hello, Ball Bess
Why do you value FDD in general so much? :v2_conf2:
Hello, Ball Bess
> Someone connect a compact flash drive and teach everyone how to do it -
> will be stored on it.
Well, this was done 10 years ago. For example CDOS supported it as a variant
ROM/RAM disk. Interestingly, nothing has changed since then. Enthusiasts
those doing something fled and everything died out.
Hello Trantor
Tra> Well, this was done 10 years ago. For example CDOS supported it as
Tra> is a type of ROM/RAM disk. nothing has changed in time..
So I said, he will connect and teach everyone :smile; A; these are apparently connected, but everyone
forgot to teach...
Where can I read about this?
But in general, in this topic they are not discussing the fate of Speck, but exclusively FDD, we are not
let's go there...