VG93
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello, All
Tell me, please, what other computers use K1818VG93 (wd1793)
Hello, boo_boo
I think it was in Corvettes.
Hello, ng_dead
In the early PCs, when there were still animated cartoons.
Hello Mike
Mik> In the early PCs, when there were still animated cartoons.
It didn’t exist in early PCs, 8272 was used there throughout my life.
Hello, Black_Cat
in "Search"
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> On PCs, 8272 or their variants were installed basically everywhere
Firstly, I haven’t written about PCs anywhere, and secondly, in all “our” computers like
EC1841, Iskra (I don’t remember the number), MS Electronics (I don’t remember the number, from UKNC), and
etc. it was VG93, because other controllers are not Soviet industry
mastered it. And there were no domestic HD controllers (as well as disk drives).
Also, VG93 was installed in computers produced by the GDR, such as Robotron, etc. (naturally
it was not our VG93 that stood there, but their analogue - the fd1793 clone (that’s what this one is called
controller manufactured by wd)).
This is precisely why in socialist countries. camps and DD 720Kb drives were distributed,
when in the rest of the world there were SD 360Kb drives, and then immediately HD 1.2Mb.
And there were plenty of HD controllers in the West, besides i8272, there were WD37C65 and NEC and more
a whole bunch, but their command system was compatible (mostly, plus all sorts of
extensions).
Hello, The Exploited
In all computers that had 5.25" 720Kb drives (with support for dual
density, MFM recording method)
Hello, Black_Cat
The whole point of the "EC" and "Iskra" series is to make computers based on domestic elements
base - without imported parts. Otherwise they would have just made XT or AT 286 and not
would be steaming. In the USSR, work was even carried out on cloning 80286, it was done
several prototypes, but this did not receive development, and subsequently
didn't make sense, because... They began to bring imported computers.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> nothing like that, there were 8272.
With a 720Kb floppy drive, well, well, please send the controller circuit to the studio. There's even
The Soviet processors were KR1810VM86 and KR1810VM88.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> PC FDD controller on 8272 normally operates at 720k
The controller operates either in HD or DD mode (the latter differ only
number of tracks 40 for 360Kb floppies or 80 for 720Kb), SD mode (method
FM recording is never used at all), controller operating mode
determined by the type of connected drive. The controller has a signal for
control of recording density and spindle speed (pin 2 on the connector), this
the signal is present (processed) only on the HD drive, for the DD drive
this signal goes nowhere.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> The latest ECs were ordinary 286 in the fatherboard type, on
Bla> only the clock was on the crossboard, and everything was imported.
Bla> Quote:
I wrote about those models that were XT and were made on domestic
elements, they had a board - a regular motherboard with slots, only there were slots
non-standard (Soviet connectors), but externally they were no different from imported XTs
(same desktop), there were problems with the character generator, since in the ROM
video controller, the font was flashed in the "Standard" GOST encoding (instead of
"Alternative" encoding GOST (cp866)).
Hello deathsoft
dea> I wrote about those models that were XT and were made domestically
dea> elements, they had a board - a regular motherboard with slots
XT EC were produced in a completely different design, Iskra 1030 too (several
boards in a stack with SNP connectors) that have nothing in common with a PC, and here’s how
once there were 8088/87 or 8086/87, 8272 and 6848, the rest was Soviet, although
in some places there were still 8250. And they worked with domestic 720k drives
(partially completed with imports).
Hello deathsoft
dea> With a 720Kb drive, well, well,
at one time, when homemade HTs were riveted, it even had a 1.2 MB controller
done, and the standard PC FDD controller on the 8272 normally works at 720k.
Hello deathsoft
dea> The whole essence of the "EU" and "Iskra" series is to make computers on the domestic
dea> element base - without imported parts.
The latest ECs were the usual 286 fatherboard type, on a crossboard
only the clock was there, and everything was imported.
dea> The controller is working.. The controller has a signal..
why is this description .. you just turn it on - and that’s it without any modifications or modifications
works - this is its normal mode.
Hello deathsoft
dea> In all computers that had 5.25" 720Kb drives (with support
dea> double density, MFM recording method)
You're talking nonsense. In PCs, 8272 or their variants were mostly installed everywhere, 93
installed only in some perverted computers like Search in order to save money
on import.
Hello deathsoft
dea> in all “our” computers like EC1841, Iskra
nothing like that, there were 8272.
Hello, boo_boo
boo> exactly, no longer has
and why, if it’s not a secret, did you need to know where, besides the VG93 speck, it’s used?
Hello deathsoft
dea> KR580VV51 - analogue of the newer i8251
dea> KR1847VV2 - analogue of i8250 (only like USSR post)
dea> P.S. It looks like the topic should be moved to the "Other computers" section, because... to
dea> it has nothing to do with Spectrum.
exactly, it no longer has :v2_blink:
Hello, boo_boo
boo> exactly, no longer has
Perhaps it is necessary to delete posts that are not related to VG93 (review by PC
controllers type 8272 and circuitry EC and Iskra)
Hello, Black_Cat
Regarding the ES COMPUTER http://www.computer-museum.ru/histussr/es_pevm.htm, prots
as I said, domestic, only imported in 1843 and 1849.
By the way, here is a link on the topic (about MS1502, there is even a photo of the controller on VG93)
http://www.phantom.sannata.ru/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=7&topic=288
By the way, there really was a Soviet analogue of the i8272 called KR580VG72 (possibly
there were other series).
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> 8250
KR580VV51 - analogue of the newer i8251
KR1847VV2 - analogue of i8250 (only like USSR post)
P.S. It looks like the topic should be moved to the "Other computers" section, because... to Spectrum
she has no relation.
Hello deathsoft
dea> posts not related to VG93 should also be deleted (review PC
dea> controllers type 8272
By the way, 8272 is used in Western Speck platforms (more advanced ones by the way
in terms of the disk system, and the axis there is normal, unlike the wretched TR-DOS).
Hello deathsoft
8251(vv51) were not used in the RS, only in some Soviet clones for
lack of 8250.
Hello Mike
Mik> If you didn't see them, it doesn't mean they didn't exist.
look carefully at what kind of microcircuits are there, if you are talking about PC controllers.
dea> the Soviet analogue of the i8272 was called KR580VG72
but I didn’t have a chance to see this either at the EU or at Iskra. Maybe also 6845 and 8250
were they Soviet? :) By the way, K1810VM86M is apparently a NEC V30.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> It didn’t exist in early PCs, 8272 was used there throughout my life.
Well, what are you going to tell me? Can I show you a couple of these cartoons? Until now
They've been lying there for a while now. If you didn't see them, it doesn't mean they didn't exist.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> The latest ECs were ordinary 286 in the fatherboard type, on
Bla> only the clock was on the crossboard, and everything was imported
How many times have people been told that there is no such thing as a “phaserboard type” anywhere?
does not exist except his head - does not understand...
Hello, Black_Cat
The drive for 8-bit Atari (the device is called Atari-1050) contains WD1793.
Hello, boo_boo
boo> Isn’t it possible to dig into the header from some non-Spectrum emulsion %)
there is not much choice - Search and Atari, you will have to steal from the Spectrum :). It's necessary
I should have called the topic “where can I get the VG93 emulsion?” - this just might
I'd like to give you a hint :). Ask the moderators to rename the topic. Also ask
Maxagora - in vTR-DOS for example VG93 should be emulated and there are sources if
this will suit you.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> why, if it’s not a secret, you needed to know where besides spec vg93
Does Bla> apply?
Yes, I’m looking closely to see if it’s possible to use a non-Spectrum emulsion to rip my head off from.
%)
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> So what I’m telling you is that it’s a programmer, because... slang
Bla> you don’t know the apparatchiks. Or do you think that the whole world turns the same way
Bla> around your knowledge? :)
These same apparatchiks were sitting at the next table - and no fantasies like
I haven’t heard “dad-board” or “grandfather-board” from them - so your slang is not
apparatchik slang. Actually, I also strongly doubt that you are real
ever had anything to do with iron workers ;)
Hello, icebear
bc - suxx!
Hello Shaos
to Shaos; I; I understand that you are not a computer scientist, but only a programmer, but you don’t
be upset - each type of activity has its own incomprehensible terminology
for beginners :). It's not scary :) - if you work hard, you'll learn :).
Hello Shaos
Sha> I strongly doubt that you have ever had any relationship with real metal workers
Sha> relation
Don't be upset :) - "There are many friends of Horatio that we never even dreamed of
to the sages.." I think this is not the last news in your life :). Live a century - a century
learn :).
Hello Shaos
Sha> programmed for five years
So what I’m telling you is that a programmer, because... not apparatchik slang
you know. Or do you think that the whole world revolves around your knowledge? :) A
microRS, by the way, is not at all what was discussed, so you’re not even close
you have an idea of what you are talking about.
Hello Shaos
Sha> maybe someone still doesn’t understand - I’m doing explanatory work
:) Susanin’s laurels don’t let you sleep? :) Come on, he ended badly :).
Hello Shaos
Sha> I personally have long understood everything
:):):) Oh? If it were clear, I wouldn’t write nonsense in this thread. :) :) :)
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> look carefully at what kind of microcircuits are there, if you are talking about PC
Bla> controllers.
Do you think that I’m completely blind or mentally retarded and can’t distinguish numbers?
Naturally, I looked more than once before speaking. If there is time,
I'll take special photos.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Well, do it, although you could say so - it would be faster, why do such
Bla> are you tense?
And I told you, twice at that.
Hello Shaos
Sha> These same apparatchiks were sitting at the next table - and no fantasies
Sha> like “father-board” or “grandfather-board” I haven’t heard from them - so yours
Sha> slang is not the slang of the apparatchiks. Actually, I also strongly
Sha> I doubt that you have ever had anything to do with real iron workers
Sha> ;)
"Grandfather-board" - THIS IS 5!!!! :v2_clapp;
2BC:; When you voiced this strange term here for the first time, I specifically looked
I googled and didn’t find anything other than a cool drawing. Where does the term come from? Slang? Well
It's not serious, I can do it too. My computer consists of a lot of kuini
buzzes, and another one that is warming itself, and together they stand on another rather large
ku.... Also slang. Is the hint clear?
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> to Shaos; I; I understand that you are not a computer scientist, but only a programmer, but
Bla> don't be upset - every type of activity has its own
Bla> terminology incomprehensible to beginners :). It's not scary :) - you'll take care of yourself
Bla> - you will learn :).
Yes, I’m just a jack of all trades: RTF UPI issue 1996 - VMKSS you know this one
specialty? Computers, complexes, systems and networks
deciphered. I am your so-called "phaserboards" called MicroPC
from octagon, advantech and fastvel programmed for five years before moving to the states
set sail, so I know what I'm saying - unlike you. :v2_finge:
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Don't be upset :) - "There are many friends of Horatio who are not
Bla> our sages dreamed.." I think this is not the last news in your
Bla> life :). Live forever and learn :).
Yes, I don’t really give a damn - consider yourself at least the most hardware-based Russian
apparatchik - I personally have understood everything for a long time :rolleyes:
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> :):):) Oh? If it were clear, I wouldn’t write nonsense in this thread. :) :)
Bla> :)
Well, maybe someone else doesn’t understand - I’m carrying out explanatory work so that they don’t
thoughtlessly ;)
Hello Mike
Mik> I’ll take special photos
Well, do it, although you could say it like that - it would be faster, why such a strain?
As it turned out, a person needs an emulsion and not a piece of hardware :).
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Firstly, you didn’t ask about the term, you asked about the standard, and I
Bla> answered you - there is no such standard.
I asked you then “what is this and where can I read about it?” Neither about the term nor
I didn’t even ask about the standard (by the way, you started about the standard then
soar).
Bla> I didn’t specifically study the question of etymology, although I did say
Bla> have you ever come across a term in the user manual for some computer
Bla> (I highly suspect that it was for Nixdof Computer - it was a long time ago, I don’t remember).
It’s clear that we’re in the water.
Bla> The term is commonly used among computer scientists (service, sales). If you
Bla> If you don’t know him, it means you simply have nothing to do with this industry. B
Bla> slang has been present for a long time, at least 15 years
Tell me about service/sales in 1992!
Bla> and denotes the execution of the processor module as an ISA controller.
Bla> There was no standard for such a construct, just as it did not exist
Bla> for example, the standard LPX form factor and everyone sculpted it as they wanted.
Bla> This was expressed in additional connectors besides standard ISA. HereBla> such boards were called “phaserboards”. Now a similar performance
Bla> is standardized, but after ISA there is still PCI attached, called
Bla> PICMG 1.0 format, but I wasn’t talking about it, but about that old one
Bla> non-standardized version exclusively with ISA connectors.
It's all water. Not interesting. Do you know why it's called Motherboard? You know
male/female connectors, think about where the name Fatherboard could have come from.
Hello Mike
Mik> that's what I told you
tell me the markings or better show them in the photo, not your opinion what you think
this is it.
ice> Where does the term come from?
Firstly, you didn’t ask about the term, you asked about the standard, and I answered you
- there is no such standard. I didn’t specifically study the question of etymology,
although I told you that I once came across the term in the user manual for some computer
(I highly suspect that it was for Nixdof Computer - it was a long time ago, I don’t remember). Term
commonly used among computer scientists (service, sales). If you don't know him -
it means you simply have nothing to do with this industry. Has been present in slang for a long time,
at least 15 years old, and denotes the execution of the processor module as an ISA
controller. There was no standard for such a design, nor
For example, there was a standard for LPX form factor and everyone sculpted it as they wanted.
This was expressed in additional connectors besides standard ISA. These are the boards
and were called "phaserboards". Nowadays, such a design is standardized in
industrial computer, but after ISA there is still PCI attached there, the format is called PICMG 1.0, but
I wasn’t talking about him, but specifically about that old non-standardized performance
exclusively with ISA connectors.
Hello, boo_boo
boo> Yes, I’m looking closely to see if it’s possible to use a non-Spectrum emulsion for a header
boo> poke %)
You can also dig around in the MSX emulators (there should be WD1793 or WD2793
which is basically the same thing http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=2092)
Hello fan
fan> You can also dig into MSX emulators (there should be WD1793
fan> or WD2793 which is basically the same thing
fan> http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=2092)
Oh! tnx, in bluemsx I found a very sane wd2793 at first glance :)
Hello icebear
Bla> If you are interested in the modern development of such performance - read
Bla> PICMG 1.0 format, there was no standard for the old version.
links? Where?! I don't see... :o
Hello icebear
ice> Tell me about the service/sale in 1992!
:) It's a long story :)
ice> male/female connectors
Have you decided to discuss etymological roots? Is there anything to discuss there? How is it different?
dad from mom? :)
If you are interested in the modern development of such performance, read the format
PICMG 1.0, there was no standard for the old version.
Hello, scl^mc
scl> bc - suxx!
scl>
What does this mean?
Hello, scl^mc
scl> links? Where?! I don’t see...
Well, I’ll also tell you how to use the search engine.. :)
Hello, scl^mc
scl> got a turbo 86m computer, maybe it has it?
What are you even asking about? Do you need a car with a fatherboard?
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> well, tell you how to use the search engine.. :)
it’s just that if a person talks about something that others are hearing about for the first time, it’s not bad
not to send it to search engines (otherwise I can also go to various other places
send :D), and support your words with links to sources where this
information was gleaned. otherwise the opinion arises that it comes from somewhere
from the ceiling.
ps. I got a turbo 86m computer, maybe it has it?
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> ...Has been present in slang for a long time, at least 15 years, and means
Bla> execution of the processor module in the form of an ISA controller. Standard
Bla> such a construct did not exist, just as it did not exist, for example
Bla> standard LPX form factor and everyone sculpted it as they wanted. This was expressed
Bla> in additional connectors besides standard ISA. These are the boards and
Bla> were called "phaserboards". Now a similar performance
Bla> is standardized in industrial computers, but after ISA there is also PCI attached there
Bla> is called the PICMG 1.0 format, but I wasn’t talking about it, but about that
Bla> old non-standardized version exclusively with ISA connectors.
Damn, stubborn huh... The standard of what you stubbornly call “papaboard”
called MicroPC (already said in another topic - but you ignored me) -
introduced by Octagon [http://www.octagonsystems.com/products/6030.aspx]
back in 1990 - a motherboard in the form of an ISA8 card (later from Advantech
[http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-1TGYCC&BU=ACG&PD
=] was in the form of ISA16 - but already under the name SlotPC). Also processor boards
in MicroPC format was produced by the Russian company Fastwel[http://www.prosoft.ru/products/brands/fastwel/micropc/micropccpu/]:
Picture: http://www.prosoft.ru/content/images/239138$%5B500x0%5D.jpg
P.S. I have not seen ISA together with PCI at the same time in industrial computers - rather
everything is again the fruit of your unbridled imagination (industrial processor
modules with only a PCI connector on the side are made according to the CompactPCI standard - again
past the "daddy board").
Hello, Black_Cat
dea> In all computers that had 5.25" 720Kb drives (with support
dea> double density, MFM recording method)
dea> in all “our” computers like EC1841, Iskra (I don’t remember the number),
dea> MS electronics (I don’t remember the number, from UKNC), etc. it was VG93,
dea> because Soviet industry has not mastered other controllers.
Machines "Electronics MS 0507" [http://mix.wol.bz/photos/ms050702.jpg] to your
time were equipped with an MFM controller KMD (device MY:) in which there is no
There was no VG93. But in "Electronics 60" there was a disk controller of the DZ device:,
VG93 was really present there.
Hello Shaos
Comrade SCH Shaos simply amazes me :):):) with his efforts to refute
:). I'll have to take pity and give a link, since I myself can't find the phaserboard in
PICMG 1.0 format in the same fastvel :):):) :
http://www.fastwel.ru/products/344802/345314.html
Hello Shaos
Sha> where is the word "phaserboard" written there?
:) read post 45
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Comrade SCH Shaos simply amazes me :):):) with his efforts
Bla> refutation :). I'll have to take pity and give you a link if I can find it myself
Bla> cannot phaserboard in PICMG 1.0 format in the same fastvel :):):) :
Bla> http://www.fastwel.ru/products/344802/345314.html
Wow, PICMG is not a figment of BC's imagination! But this is not the only possible option.
execution of industrial computers with a connector, as you wrote above, but rather
a rare exception (several different types of connectors in a row is nonsense). A
Now attention to the question - where is the word “phaserboard” written there?
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> :) read post 45
Let's not bother quoting the works of the great you, but just say
that there is no such thing as a fatherboard in nature, but these are called
processor boards with an ISA connector in simple words MicroPC (I even attached a photo
to your previous message, but you ignored it).
By the way, I asked about where on the page with the description of the fastvel board
your favorite PICMG 1.0 standard says that this is the one
"phaserboard", and not at all where in your endless delirium are you
you come up with and standardize this definition.
Hello Shaos
Sha> we will not engage in quoting
don’t bother, I’ll drum for you :), you got to the bottom of it with your refutation,
and not me before you :). Do you have an inferiority complex a la Salieri? Go to
psychoanalyst, in NY they should be like uncut dogs (or like lawyers) :).
If you are not satisfied with your ignorance of geek slang
build a model of the egocentric universe and declare that everything you don’t know is
does not exist (there was already one figure here who declared everyone around to be machinations
matrix :)) or announce that everyone around you is a lamer and only you are d'Artagnan :) - do it
whatever you want, I’m not interested in your fuss.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> If you are not satisfied with your ignorance of computer slang
yeah - I don’t know exactly lamer slang ;)
Hello Grand
dea> Firstly, I haven’t written about PC anywhere, and secondly, in all “ours”
dea> computer type EC1841, Iskra (I don’t remember the number), MS Electronics (no number
dea> I remember, from UKNC), etc. it was VG93, because other controllers
dea> Soviet industry has not mastered.
In UKNC (Electronics MS-511) the controller is not based on VG93, but on KR1801VP1-128
:v2_wink2:
Hello Shaos
Sha> P.S. I have never seen ISA and PCI at the same time in industrial computers
Sha> - most likely, again, the fruit of your unbridled imagination
Sha> (industrial processor modules only with a PCI connector on the side
Sha> are made according to the CompactPCI standard - again bypassing the "papaboard").
Well then, it’s my imagination, because... I talked about this. Not about dad-grandfather-board, but
about ISA + PCI. Such machines are still produced in large quantities,
I have about a dozen of them at work right now.
Hello Mike
Mik> Well then, it’s my imagination, because... I talked about this. Not about
Mik> father-grandfather-board, but about ISA + PCI. Such machines are still produced today
Mik> there are a lot of them, I only have them at work right now
Mik> ten.
Well, BC showed me the link, proving that they exist ;)
At one time I didn’t even have time to work with CompactPCI - requests from our company
MicroPC (ISA8) and SlotPC (ISA16) were completely covered
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> what are you even asking about? Do you need a car with a fatherboard?
no, blah. I ask: THE COMPUTER "TURBO 86M" MAY HAVE ANALOGUE 1818VG93