FUNTOP98 iNFO

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─── MFKI 'FUNTOP98'. OFFICIAL INFORMATION ───
── ── ─── ──v1.3 from 04/05/98. ─── ── ──
─ ─ ── ── ─ ─ ── ─ ─ ─

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The International Festival of Computer Art "FunTop98" will be held on August 22 in Moscow, on the premises of the Experimental Secondary School No. 91 of the Russian Academy of Education, located at the address: Moscow, st. Povarskaya,
d. 14.

This is the first event of this kind in Russia, entirely dedicated to the ZX-Spectrum computer. The main goals of the
Festival are to establish contacts between software manufacturers,
exchange of ideas, presentations of new games and system programs,
conducting competitions with prizes awarded to winners.

In order to attend the Festival, you must first
send an application to one of the addresses specified in the
"Contact Information" section.

Entrance to the Festival is paid, the estimated cost is 20
rubles (denominated). For those who are late with registration - 30
rubles. The proceeds will be used to award prizes
to competition winners.

Software sales will be open at the Festival, where you will not only
be able to purchase old and new programs, but also exhibitfor
sale your own original (non-competition) works. In
this case, it is highly advisable to send them in advance.
Compliance with copyright is guaranteed.

General rules for holding competitions
──────────────────────────────────

By tradition, the Festival will host competitions of works in the following
categories: Demo, Music and Graphics, as well as the 4K-Intro competition.

From one author/group, no more than one
work in each nomination is accepted for the competition. If the work is
the result of collective creativity, the presence
of at least one representative from the group is sufficient. If there are valid
reasons (travel difficulties, illness, exams, problems with
visas, etc.), absentee participation in competitions is allowed - you
can send your works by regular mail or e-mail or
share with other persons, while the urgent request for
pre-registration of such works remains in force.

Works submitted to competitions must be sent in advance
by e-mail or regular mail or submit in person, accompanied
with information about the authors and the work itself (see sample application).
Confidentiality and compliance with copyright on the part of
The Organizing Committee is guaranteed. The last day for registration of works is August 8
. Deported later than thisdates of work will be accepted only in
exceptional cases and if circumstances permit, except
works in the "Demo" nomination - you can bring them directly to the
Festival if the work is being completed at the last minute. However, such a situation is considered as an extreme case; the price
of the entrance ticket for participants bringing their works directly to the
Festival, without sending them in advance, even with
pre-registration, will be the same as for persons who have not
registered in advance. In case of an excessive number of works, their preliminary selection will be carried out by a reputable jury consisting of persons not participating in the competitions. Works that have not passed the selection will be demonstrated outside of competitions, if guests and
participants of the Festival express their desire, and will be included in collections. Works that have taken part in competitions automatically
become classified as FREEWARE - subject to free
distribution, but if the author(s) for some reason do not
want their works to be included in collections and subsequent
distribution, they must notify the Organizing Committee in advance,
preferably already when submitting an application for participation in the competition.

During the display of competition works, viewers will have to choose
the three you like and award them from one to threepoints by noting this on the voting form. The authors of the works who take
the first three places in terms of the number of points scored will be declared
winners and awarded valuable prizes.

Requirements for works submitted to the competition
───────────────────────── ──────────────────────

In all nominations, it is not permitted to submit works to competitions that have previously taken part in any similar events.

┌────────────────┐
─ ──────────────────────┤ Graphics compo ├───────────────────────
└────────────────┘

Graphics digitized or converted from other platforms, as well as your own processing of other people's works are prohibited. If
such suspicion arises, the author must provide the jury
with intermediate stages of creating the composition.

┌────────────────┐
─ ──────────────────────┤ 4K Intro compo ├───────────────────────
└────────────────┘

The works will be demonstrated on the following computer
configuration: Pentagon 128 (3.5 Mhz, 128K, TR-DOS 5.03/5.04T,
AY-3-8910/12, 5'25 DS/DD FDD).

The work must be submitted as a single file of type "C" with a
start address that matches the download directory address and
in the range from #6000 to #FFFF; file length no more than
16sectors.

The program can use any built-in ROM resources of a computer with a basic configuration; RAM from #6000 to #FFFF in any
memory pages except the 6th. The program must return control via RET, in the main memory configuration of 128K (page 0 enabled); IY=#5C3A standard; with interrupts enabled in
IM 1 mode; with the system variable area intact; with
sound muted AY. It is not necessary to clear the screen and restore the original
colors.

Demonstration duration is up to 3 minutes, including time for
calculation/preparation/unpacking of data.

┌─────────────┐
─── ─────────────────────┤ Music compo ├─────────────────────────
└─────────────┘

Only on-interrupt music compositions are allowed for the
coprocessor AY-3-8910/12. Digital works are not accepted for the
competition due to the difficulty of determining their originality.

Works are accepted in compiled form under the address #C000 (49152)
with an indication of the music editor in which the composition was
written.
It is highly advisable to send the original (not compiled)
version of the composition. It will not be subject to free
distribution (unless otherwise agreed with the author).
In the case of using non-traditional means of creating music
(for example,your own music editor), please
send them along with your work. They will also not be allowed for
free distribution.

Maximum playback time is 3 minutes.

┌────────────┐
──── ─────────────────────┤ Demo compo ├─────────────────────────
└────────────┘

The works will be demonstrated on a computer with the following
configuration: Pentagon 128 (3.5 Mhz, 128K, TR-DOS 5.03/5.04T,
AY-3-8910/12, 5'25 DS/DD FDD). The Organizing Committee will accept for
distribution non-competition analogues of works intended for
demonstration on computers of a different configuration (for example,
tap versions for non-CIS countries).

The transition between parts of the demonstration should not require
keypresses, while the presence of such an opportunity
is only welcome.

The work should not contain obscene language in any
language or in any other way do not comply
with moral or legal standards.

“Pure animation” is traditionally prohibited. The demo should
be dominated by real-time effects.

The maximum duration of the demonstration is 10 minutes.

The maximum size is one TR-DOS disk.

It is prohibited to protect the floppy disk from copying. Any
other restrictions within TR-DOS 5.03,no (for example, music
during loading, etc. are allowed).

Protection of the code from viewing, hacking, the "Magic" button
etc. is allowed, but also subject to the conditions of free copying.

Contact information
─────────────────────

You can send applications, as well as the works themselves, to the following
addresses:

E-mail: mas...@satan.spb.su
FidoNet: 2:5020/689.1
ZXNet: Wladimir Bulchukey (500:95/462)
Mail:
1) 125130, Moscow, PO Box 51
2) 107241, Moscow, Shchelkovskoe highway, 31, apt. 7. V.V. Bulchukei.

At these addresses you can also obtain any additional
information. Correspondence should contain in the To: field (or on the
envelope) the note "FunTop98" and, if it is not difficult for you,
specify the application (for example: "FunTop98. Demo Compo",
"FunTop98. Info", etc.).

EXAMPLE of filling out an application for participation in the competition (in the event
if you decide to take part in several nominations, each
work must be accompanied by a separate application):

┌───────────────────────────┘OBR AZETS└──────────────────────────┐
Nickname (Handle): FireSoft
Name, surname of the author (Real name): Ivan Ivanov
Group (Group):Firefighters CHG
Mail address (Address): 123456, Electroshock, 666th street,
13, apt. 911
Phone: (001)123-4567
E-mail Address(es): 2:345/133.1, fi...@dialup.ru

Competition (Compo): Demo compo
Work name: The Help!
Filename(s): thehelp.B, thehelp.C
└────────────────────────── ─┐SAMPLE┌──────────────────────────┘

If you are going to attend the Festival as a
spectator, leave the last three fields empty.

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=== === === ========= === ========= === ===
YOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
=== === === === by === === === === ===
--- --------- --- --- --- --------- ---

These rules are not final and can be changed
or supplemented.

Organizing Committee MFKI "FunTop98"

Chairman of the Organizing Committee Vladimir Bulchukei

──────────────────────────────

Application #1. Directions to the Festival venue.
───────────────────────────── ──────────────────────

Place holding the Festival "FunTop98" - st. Povarskaya, 14 (school
91). Directions: metro"Arbatskaya", "Lenin Library",
"Borovitskaya". Exit to the street New Arbat to the "Moscow House of Books". On the corner of Arbat Square opposite the facade of the cinema
"Khudozhestvenny" enter the underground passage; after entering the passage, turn into the right tunnel; walk along the Paninter shopping row and cross to the opposite side of Novy
Arbat street; from the underground passage - to the left; walk approximately 150 m along
street. Novy Arbat past the post-telegraph building (where the "Inforcom headquarters" used to be) to the fork in the streets; right in front of you there will be a
church; a street branching diagonally to the right is Povarskaya.
The white five-story school building is about 100 m from the turn on
Povarskaya street from Novy Arbat street. Graphic traffic diagram from the Arbatskaya metro station to the school building 91 will be included in
subsequent informational mini-demonstrations and published in
the newspaper "Nicron".

Appendix #2. Approximate schedule of the Festival.
──────────────────────────────── ─────────────────────

Saturday, August 22

10.00. Grand opening of the IFC "FunTop98".
10.00 - 11.00. Final registration of works; in parallel -
display of non-competition works, presentations of the authors
software and hardware; solving current organizational issues, etc.
11.00 - 11.45. Competition of graphic works.
11.30 - 12.00. Break
12.00 - 12.45. Competition 4K-Intro.
12.45 - 13.00. Break
13.00 - 16.00. Competition of musical works.
16.00 - 16.30. Break
16.30 - 19.00. Demo competition.
19.00 - 20.00. Counting of votes, in parallel with it, speeches of the authors; communication with the press; re-show
of the best demos, etc.
20.00 - 20.30. Awarding of the winners, ceremonial closing
of the Festival.

Sunday, August 23 - informal communication, cultural
program outside the official framework of the Festival.

Appendix #3. Members of the FunTop98 Organizing Committee:
────────────────────────── ────────────────

Vladimir Bulchukei (Wlodek Black) - Chairman of the Organizing Committee

Alexey Ivanov Alex (R)
Alexey Letaev Asder FFC
Dmitry Grigoriev Oldman
Andrey Sokov Konex Antares
Valery Kozhevnikov Jason ZX-Factor
Sergey Novikov Spirit Digital Reality
Ilya Ivanov ZX-Shadow Diamond
Ilya Abrosimov EA Antares
Andrey Savichev m@s Census Group SPB
(head of preliminary registration of works)

Appendix #4. Additional information channel.
─────────────────────────────── ────────────────

Chairman Organizing Committee of the Festival "FunTop98" Vladimir Bulchukei:
e-mail: wlb...@ns.91.ru
ZXNet: 500:95/462
telephone: (095) 462-89-02
mail address: 107241 Moscow, Shchelkovskoe highway, 31, apt. 7.
You can ask any questions on the topic of the Festival
and you will definitely receive an answer.

WELCOME TO █▄
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Monday April 13 1998 16:27, Wladimir Bulchukey ─── All:

WB> “Pure animation” is traditionally prohibited. The demo should
WB> be dominated by real-time effects.
Well, I hope at least this time someone will monitor compliance with
this rule???!!!

[.....]

WB> It is allowed to protect the code from viewing, hacking, the "Magic" button
WB>, etc., but also subject to the conditions of free copying.
So that no one sees the "clean" animation" ?

Good luck ! Evgeny.

■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.

EM> So that no one sees “pure animation”?
Maybe it’s enough to roll a barrel on DR? I liked the _not pure_ animation
in Binary Love, and it looks cool in both S4B and Power Up (by the way - the first
three places are with animation!)

Don't forget! Write!
Lyokha.

WB>>> "˛…”‘¡— ¡Œ…Õ¡√…—" ‘“¡ƒ…√…œŒŒœ ⁄¡–“≈›≈Œ¡. ˜ ƒ≈Õœ ƒœÃ÷ŒŸ
WB>>> ƒœÕ…Œ…“œ◊¡‘ÿ “≈¡Ã‘¡ Õ-‹∆∆≈À‘Ÿ.

EM>> H’, Œ¡ƒ≈¿”ÿ, »œ‘ÿ Œ¡ ‹‘œ-‘œ p¡⁄ À‘œ-Œ…¬’ƒÿ ¬’ƒ≈‘ ”Ã≈ƒ…‘ÿ ⁄¡
EM>> ”œ¬Ã¿ƒ≈Œ…≈Õ ‹‘œ«œ –p¡◊…á ???!!!

WB>>> ‰œ–’”À¡≈‘”— ⁄¡›…‘¡ Àœƒ¡ œ‘ –“œ”Õœ‘“¡, ◊⁄Üա, ÀŒœ–À… "Magic"
WB>>> … ƒ“., Œœ ‘¡À÷≈ –“… ”œ¬Ã¿ƒ≈Œ…… ’”Ãœ◊…— ”◊œ¬œƒŒœ«œ Àœ–…“œ◊¡Œ…—.

EM>> ˛‘œ ¬Ÿ Œ…À‘œ Œ≈ ’◊…ƒ≈à "fi…”‘’¿ ¡Œ…Õ¡√…¿" ?

AB> Ìœ÷≈‘ »◊¡‘…‘ ¬œfiÀ’ Œ¡ DR À¡‘…‘ÿ? ÌŒ≈ –œŒ“¡◊…á”ÿ _Œ≈ fi…”‘¡—_ ¡Œ…Õ¡√…—
AB> ◊ Binary Love, ƒ¡ … ◊ S4B … ◊ Power Up œŒ¡ À“’‘œ ”Õœ‘“…‘”— (À”‘¡‘… -
AB> –≈“◊Ÿ≈ ‘“… Õ≈”‘¡ - ” ¡Œ…Õ¡√…≈ !)

"˛…”‘¡— ¡Œ…Õ¡√…—" - ◊ ”ÕŸ”Ã≈ œƒŒ¡ ¡Œ…Õ¡√…—. · Œ¡ Õ…Ã’Œœ◊ Œ≈ œ¬…÷¡¿‘”—...

Spirit^DR [s-no...@usa.net]

AB> Maybe it’s enough to roll a barrel on DR?
???!!!! So it was _YOU_ who said that DR VIOLATED one of the requirements for
Enlight's works. Not me. And I haven’t thrown a barrel at anyone yet.
(I don’t agree? Give me a reason!)
AB> I liked the _not clean_ animation
AB> in Binary Love, and it looks cool in both S4B and Power Up
AB> (by the way - the first three places are with animation!)
That's it. “Let the lamers get carried away with real-time effects, but we’d better
make animation, but we’ll win.” So ? IMHO, that's exactly it... This is what's a shame - the greater chance of winning is not the one who makes the coolest real-time, but the one who, violating the requirements, makes a cool animation...
Now you'll think ten times: "Is it worth fulfilling all _these_ requirements?"

EM> That's it. “Let the lamers get rid of real-time effects, but we’d better
EM> do animation, but we’ll win.” So?
It was written in the rules - “pure animation is prohibited, it may
be present, but the deme should not consist only of animation.” Here is the answer to the question. And when playing the demo, it takes very little time - that's where it needs to be given.....and everything is fine.
<- With Best ReGardZ foR U & oNlY...!
ViRtUal/+=SileNce CriOniX=+'98

EM> we'll make an animation, but we'll win." So? IMHO, that's exactly it... That's what
EM> is a shame - the more likely to win is not the one who makes the coolest real-time, but
EM> the one who, violating the requirements, makes a cool animation...
EM> Now you'll think ten times: "Is it worth doing everything _these_
EM> requirements?"
And I don’t care whether there is animation or not. I don’t care whether the demo was written by lamers or not. I don’t care whether it’s real time or not. THE MAIN THING IS THAT THE
DEM IS BEAUTIFUL AND STYLISH.

Don’t forget! Write!
Lyokha.

A little nervous with excitement Andrew Litvinov 18 Apr 98 at 21:07 with difficulty
told out the following words for my old friend Wladimir Bulchukey:

AL> is relevant if standard *.mods were used. And if
AL> the possibility of conversion is implied, then it is worth noting that it is possible
AL> to convert MODS into tracker modules with subsequent adjustment
AL> of tools.
Well, don’t tell me... For training in PT and part-time work, you need not crooked hands, and
ears too... But *.mod in Digital and me with my knowledge of music I'll distill...

Don't forget! Write!
Lyokha.

[.....]
AB>> Maybe it’s enough to roll a barrel on DR? I liked the _not pure_ animation
AB>> in Binary Love, and it looks cool in both S4B and Power Up (by the way -
AB>> the first three places are with animation!)
S> “Pure animation” - in the sense of just animation. But they don’t take offense at the Miluns...
Let’s have a debate like in the State Duma “represents candidates - these are three
different candidates, or just three attempts.”
You want to say that if I make one continuous cartoon on 2/3 of the screen
(and the cartoon is “absolutely pure”, for which there are no no preliminary
calculations were made except for the trajectory), and in the remaining 1/3 I use a real-time
running line, then everything will be “hockey”? Such an “effect” will no longer be considered
pure animation?

PN> It was written in the rules - “pure animation is prohibited, it may
PN> be present, but the deme should not consist only of animation.” Here is the answer
No, this is not an answer - this is a word game (read my letter to Novikov).
PN> to the question. And when playing the demo, it takes very little time - so
PN> it needs to be given space..... and everything is fine.
What are you all about? I can’t help but remember the phrase of one of my friends -
"Something in the DR demos is loading abnormally often..."

AB> ^^^^^^^^^^^ here...
What is “here”? “Not clean” means “dirty”? :)) With a small admixture of
real-time effects? What do you mean then by the definition of “pure
animation” - when sprites are simply displayed on the screen, or when exactly the stages of movement aka frames are displayed on the screen?
And also, have you seen the “lens effect” in some demos? Have you tried to find out whether this is a cartoon or a real-time lens? But I tried it. In almost all demes, the maximum that was calculated was the trajectory of this very lens (although in some cases, pieces of the screen were also “withdrawn” into the sprite buffer of the “moving lens”). Everything else is pure cartoon (the very first
sign of this is that the LENS NEVER GOES ON THE REALTIME SCROLL).

2ALL: To everyone who wants to flame on this topic, and on the topic of DR, I suggest
do the following experiment. Take the DR demo for ENLIGHT'96, in the effect with a
lens, enter the shadow monitor, and fill the 5th page with zeros, and the 7th with #FF
(or vice versa, I don’t remember exactly right now), return to the program, and... just
see what will happen on screen.

EM> · ÕŒ≈ ◊œ‘ Œ¡–pœ‘…◊ - Ϙ·Ù¯ Ò ËÔÙÂÏ Œ¡ ‘œ, Œ¡”ÀœÃÿÀœ Àp¡”…◊¡ …
EM> ”‘…ÃÿŒ¡ ƒ≈Õ¡ ‰ÏÒ _ENLIGHT'¡_, ≈”Ã… œŒ¡ –p… ‹‘œÕ H·Úı˚·ÂÙ ÂÁÔ Ú·˜ÈÏ·.

H¡“’€¡≈‘ Ã…€ÿ ◊ ‘◊œ≈Õ ¬œÃÿŒœÕ ◊œœ¬“¡÷≈Œ……. "˛…”‘¡— ¡Œ…Õ¡√…—" - Àœ«ƒ¡ Œ¡Õ
–œÀ¡⁄Ÿ◊¡¿‘ ◊”≈ ◊“≈Õ— œ¬ŸÀŒœ◊≈ŒŒŸ  Õ’Ãÿ‘…À, …Œœ«ƒ¡ ƒ¡÷≈ ◊Ÿƒ¡◊¡— ≈«œ ⁄¡ ‹∆∆≈À‘Ÿ Œ¡
¡”Õ≈.

EM> Ù·Î·Ò ‰ÂÌ· ˜ÔÔ‚˝Â H ‰ÔψH· ‰ÔıÛηٯÛÒ ‰Ô ÎÔHÎıÚÛ·.

H’ –“¡◊…ÃÿŒœ, Ã’fi€≈ ƒœ–’”À¡‘ÿ ‘œÃÿÀœ ◊”—À…  Û·ÎÛ (SOKX) ‘…–¡ NOUMENON, fi‘œ¬Ÿ
¬≈ƒŒŸ≈ ⁄“…‘≈Ã… –Ã≈◊¡Ã…”ÿ ◊”≈ democompo.

Spirit^DR [s-no...@usa.net]

A little nervous with excitement Evgeny Milun 22 Apr 98 at 15:27 with difficulty
told out the following words for his old friend Alex Baskakov:

EM> And also, have you seen the “lens effect” in some demos? Have you tried
EM> to find out if this is a cartoon or a real-time lens? But I tried it. In almost all demos, the maximum that was calculated was the trajectory of this very lens
EM> (although in some cases, pieces of the screen were also “removed” into the sprite buffer of the “moving lens”). Everything else is a pure cartoon (the very first sign of this is that the LENS NEVER CLICKS ON THE REALTIME SCROLL).
EM> 2ALL: To anyone who wants to flame on this topic, and on the DR topic, I suggest
EM> do the following experiment. Take the DR demo for ENLIGHT'96, in
EM> the effect with a lens, enter the shadow monitor, and fill the 5th page with zeros,
EM> and the 7th - #FF (or vice versa, I don’t remember exactly right now), return to the program,
EM> and... just see what happens on screen.
So half of the effects are now on spec - preliminary drawing and calculation
of sprites, and then scrolling them.

...April 21, 98, Alex Baskakov and Andrew Litvinov had a conversation on the topic "Re:
FUNTOP98 iNFO":
AL>> that it is possible to convert MODS into tracker modules with subsequent
AL>> adjustment of tools.
AB> Well, don’t tell me... For training in PT and part-time work we don't need curves, yes
AB> and ears too... But *.mod in Digital and with my knowledge of music
AB> I will distill...

Oh... With my knowledge and hearing, I, in principle, can distill anything
into anything... :) And I think for many this is not a problem. Only few people
will stoop to this IMHO...

I wish you good luck!
-LAV- // SoftLand // HRg [Team Fast tracker 2] [Team ZX-music]

Thursday April 23 1998 15:01, Spirit ─── Evgeny Milun:

EM>> SUCH A DEME SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED INTO THE COMPETITION AT ALL.
S> Well, that’s right, it’s better to allow only any SAX (SOKX) type NOUMENON, so that
S> poor spectators spit all democompo.
It seems you, in your unsuccessful attempt to get me, are making the same mistake
that Artie once made.
1) _I_ did not take part in the creation of NOUMENON. Moreover, when I
saw him for the first time (and this happened already on the day of Enlight), my opinion about him
was very far from delighted (although I didn’t call him a Saxon).
2) Of all the “Stars of Keladan”, only
ALK took part in the creation of this demo, and only as a coder (and his real-time lens, as far as I know, is still very few people managed to repeat it.) So, I don’t think it’s possible to talk about NOUMENON
as the creation of our group. What did Matveev say about your releases and crafts?
"We cannot prohibit him from doing this, this is his personal initiative." So, it seems?
Well, it was exactly the same with this demo and ALK. Any other questions?

Well, since you touched on the SOK topic. Then, I repeat once again - well, don’t blindly
follow the teachings and examples of your colleague Dmitry Grigoriev, and drag
SOK into places where it has absolutely nothing to do with it. This just shows once again who is really trying"cling to at least something and start a flame."

P.S. A bunch of Samara spektrumists took part in the creation of the demo, and
words like yours primarily hurt them, and not me, as you
wanted.

AL> Oh... With my knowledge and hearing, I, in principle, can distill anything
AL> into anything... :) And I think for many this is not a problem. Only very few
AL> will stoop to this IMHO...
No... I've seen many who have stooped before... It's better and easier for you to write
yourself, don't feed others Tampax, let them tear up - graphics, instruments,
music.

Don't forget! Write!
Lyokha.

^^^1 ^^^^^^2
S> for the poor viewers to spit all democompo.
1.Perhaps the demo _didn't reach_ the E97-level, perhaps there were _inconsistencies_ with
implementation, perhaps it was not remembered for anything _bright_, perhaps _you_ don't
like it, but people's work should at least _respect_, not _drag_ it
(demo) wherever you want and don't _spit_ on StarS of KeLaDan and other
participants in the process (you can deal with Milun as much as you like, if he really grabs you by the gills).
2. From SoK _one_ person participated, the first work on the demo-scene, all the rest
are volunteers. "SOKX" - I didn't expect such childishness from you.....(well, not to
to such an extent)... here's the scener for you.
<- With Best ReGardZ foR U & oNlY...SeE yA L8r!
ViRtUal/+=SileNce CriOniX=+'98ADnch

EM> It seems that in your unsuccessful attempt to get me, you are making the same
EM> mistake that Artie once made.

And I’m not talking about you. I'm talking about SOKX.

EM> 1) _I_ did not take part in the creation of NOUMENON.

Tell me something that I don’t know (c) Eraser

EM> Moreover, when I saw him for the first time (and this
EM> happened already on the day of Enlight), my opinion about him was very far from
EM> delight (although I was a Saxon about him didn’t name it).

That’s how much you value your teammates! Where is the vaunted in-group
favoritism? A normal person would not say this in order to support his
comrades in the group... But you have such a group... What did you see the demo from your group
after it was shown on Inlight...

EM> 2) Of all the “Stars of Keladan”, only ALK took part in the creation of this demo
EM>, and only as a coder
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And what does this mean?

EM> (and as far as I know, very few people have succeeded
EM> in repeating his real-time lens.)

Who repeated it anyway?

EM> Well, since you touched on the topic of SOK. Then, I repeat once again - well, there is no need
EM> to blindly follow the teachings and examples of your colleague Dmitry Grigoriev, and
EM> to drag SOK into places where it has absolutely nothing to do with it. This just shows once again
EM> who is really trying to “cling to at least somethingand
EM> start a flame."

No, wait... The demo was completely written (not counting graphics and music) and
presented on Inlight by a person from your group. And now it turns out that it has nothing to do with
SOK?! Why were you silent before? So you would
write: we have nothing to do with this, direct all curses in
ALK's direction.

EM> P.S. A bunch of Samara spektrumists took part in the creation of the demo,
EM> and such words of yours primarily hurt them, and not me, as you
EM> wanted.

More precisely, 4 people? Well, what’s outstanding about it?
(greetings) Spirit^DR [s-no...@usa.net]

AL>> anyone into anything... :) And I think for many this is not a problem.
AL>> Only few people will stoop to this IMHO...
AB> No... I've seen many who have stooped to this before...

AB> It's better for you and
AB> it's easier to write yourself, don't feed others Tampax, let them tear you up -
AB> graphics, instruments, music.

Somehow I don't have enough of them. I saw... After all, people come to the compo not to win, but to show themselves. =) If the music is tattered and takes, say, first place, then it will still come up someday. It’s unlikely that anyone will decide to cheat.
btw, among pissy musicians, tearing up instruments is not considered something
“illegal.” 90% of musicians borrow samples from wherever they can. /I, for example
use special CD collections of samples/...

PN> 1. Perhaps the demo _didn't reach_ the E97 level, perhaps there were
PN> _inconsistencies_ with the implementation, perhaps it was not remembered for anything _bright_,

Do you know how to translate the phrase "No prayer for the dying Speccy"? ;[

PN> maybe _you_ don’t like it, but people’s work should at least be
PN> _respected_, not _dragging_ it (demo) wherever you want and not

What is it, it turns out: it’s possible to say 'DAF by Rambo - sux', but 'Noumenon by
Samara' - not? For that matter, there was a lot of sax on E97.

PN> _spit_ on StarS of KeLaDan and other participants in the process (with
PN> Milun you can deal with as much as you like, if he really takes you by the
PN> gills). 2. _one_ person participated from SoK, the first work on
PN> demo-scene, all the rest are volunteers.
PN> “SOKX” - I didn’t expect such childishness from you.....

Yes, it’s clear... But, but... for me and many others the word “SOK” is associated not with
J7 or Parmalat, but with Milun. As long as he is in the group, I will not respect it. Therefore
Suxx - he is also in Africa Sokx ;)

Spirit^DR [s-no...@usa.net]

AL> Somehow I haven’t seen many of them... After all, they come to the comp not to win, but
AL> to show themselves. =) If the music is tattered and takes, say, first place,
AL> then it will still come up someday. It is unlikely that anyone will decide to scam. btw, among pisish musicians, tearing up instruments is in principle not
AL> considered something “illegal”. 90% of musicians borrow samples
AL> from wherever they can. /I, for example,
AL> use special CD collections of samples/...
Have you seen the work with E97? There are so many tattered pictures/music... And on the compo
they come not only to show themselves, but also what they have torn up. And we are not talking about first
place, but about the goals of the party. Why the hell is it needed if there are tattered works?
Well, what about samples - IMHO we are talking about digital music in general - it’s easy to convert.

Don’t forget! Write!
Lyokha.

AB>> I don’t care whether there is animation or not. I don't care whether the demo
AB>> was written by lamers or not. I don't care if it's real time or not. THE MAIN THING IS THAT
AB>> THE THING IS BEAUTIFUL AND STYLISH.
EM>> :))))
EM>> “The main thing is that the suit fits.” film "Sorcerers"
EM>> But I'm on the contrary - I DON'T CARE about how beautiful and stylish
EM>> the deme is FOR _ENLIGHT_, if at the same time she VIOLATES ITS RULES. THIS DEMO
EM>> SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO THE COMPETITION AT ALL. But if it is “on its own”, and
EM>> not for competition, then I agree with you in everything - I don’t care how this or that effect is realized.
EM>> Is my position clear now? Or should I clarify once again that I’m talking about
EM>> demos created FOR COMPETITION?

S> That's how much you appreciate your teammates! And where is the vaunted in-group
S> favoritism?
Who is who? Are you talking about the asinine stubbornness “yes, he is wrong, but since he is in the same group with me, I will fully support him”? No, I don’t have such a herd feeling. Like the rest of the representatives of SOK.

S> A normal person would not say this in order to support
S> his group mates... But you have such a group... What did you see from your
S> group after it was shown on Inlight...
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) reason
lost. Let me explain once again - SOK did not take part in the creation of this demo.
We were all involved in our own projects.
And if every time you see any program of “your comrades in the group”, you simply pee with happiness and joy, just to “support your
comrades”, despite the quality programs, then... Yes, this is a problem. Yours.

Sun Apr 26 1998 12:05, Spirit wrote to Pavel Nikonov:
S> Do you know how to translate the phrase “No prayer for the dying Speccy”? ;[
Yeah, the dictionary is at hand -:)
S> What is it, it turns out: it’s possible to say 'DAF by Rambo - sux', but 'Noumenon
S> by Samara' - not?
Here you noticed correctly, but I didn’t like E. Milun’s answer - he wrote it somehow not in the
Team style.
S> For that matter, there was a saxa on E97 a lot.
"What a song without a button accordion" -:)
S> Yes, this is clear... But, but... for me and many others, the word "JUICE"
S> is associated not with J7 or Parmalat, but with Milun. As long as he is in the group,
S> I will not respect it. That's why Suxx is also Sokx in Africa ;)
In vain...

AB> No... I've seen many who have stooped before... It's better for you and
AB> It's easier for you to write yourself, don't feed others Tampax, let them tear you up - graphics,
AB> instruments, music.
I agree, there are those, but you shouldn't crush real muzakers because of them.
Besides, now the majority of those who write the muse themselves. The question is different, in
quality, but that’s a different conversation.

AB> Don’t forget! Write!
Writing... ;)

Wiz zE BeSt WisHeZ 2 U!
-=JoCkeR/OmEga HaCkErS Grp/1998year=-

S> What is it, it turns out: you can say 'DAF by Rambo - sux', but not 'Noumenon by
S> Samara'? For that matter, there was a lot of sax on E97.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong - you weren't there. So?
And then, where is such a city - “Rambo”? There, probably all the city spektrumists are part of one big group? Or did I miss something, and a new group appeared on the “scene” - “Samara”? Then what does the NOUMENON demo have to do with this, which was made in the city of Samara, specially created for this purpose by the "NOUMENON Group", which included
representatives from several completely independent Samara groups?

EM> Who-who? Are you talking about donkey stubbornness “yes, he is wrong, but
EM> since he is in the same group with me, then I will fully
EM> support him”? No, I don’t have such a herd feeling. Just like
EM> other representatives of SOK.

There is, in fact, nothing to be proud of. This can only indicate weak
integration within SOK. In-group favoritism, in general, must be present in any group, otherwise it can be judged as unstable. [Do you understand the general meaning?
In fact, these are very noticeable definitions of sociology, and without them it will take a long time to explain
].

EM> And if every time you see any program of “your comrades
EM> in the group,” you simply pee with happiness and joy, just to
EM> “support your comrades,” despite the quality of the program, then...
EM> Yes, this is a problem. Yours.

I’m telling you, in any normal (social) group there must be in-group favoritism, i.e. unconditional support by all group members for the actions of their group, no matter what their nature. For example, if someone in your family commits a crime, you won’t go and give him away.
The fans support their team: regardless of whether the players
committed a violation or not, everyone will shout that nothing happened. ANDetc.

If one person in your group can publicly speak poorly about the work of
a group mate, then this indicates the fragility of relationships within the group.

S>> by Samara' - no? For that matter, there was a lot of sax on E97.
EM> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EM> Correct me if I'm wrong - you weren't there. So?
EM> And then, where is such a city - “Rambo”? There, probably all
EM> city spectrists are part of one big group? Or did I miss something, and a new group appeared on the “scene” - “Samara”?

Don’t be a fool. Samara for short. So as not to list everyone and everything.

EM> Then what does the NOUMENON demo have to do with it, which was made in the city of
EM> Samara,

Well...

EM> by a specially created for this group "NOUMENON Group", which included
EM> representatives from several completely independent
EM> Samara group ?

Well, what do you want to say? What can't you write about Samara instead of a one-day group? What's the difference, anyway? Moreover, according to all reports, the demo is under the copyright of a group of authors.

EM> zeros, and the 7th - #FF (or vice versa, I don’t remember exactly now), return to
EM> the program, and... just look at what will happen on the screen.
Your arguments are not the fact that the lens is drawn in advance in memory.
Such a counterargument - Are you saying that DR are so lame that they can't display a 4x4 sprite in one interruption? Have you noticed that the lens doesn't fly there in one interruption? It is not a fact that to calculate the lens
the picture is taken from the screen, it can with a very high probability
be taken from the main memory.

With respect, Roman aka Megus of BrainWave association.

[Team ZX-Spectrum] [Team Agatha Christie] [Team Metallica] [Team Iron Maiden]

EM> level.
EM> Well, let's go from the other side then. Are there any restrictions in the competition rules? Eat. Should we stick to them? It is necessary. Will we discuss this topic further? :)
No, if you please... We make the rules. And how can you adhere to your own
not yet invented rules. After all, those that exist do not take into account everyone’s opinions.
For example, I haven’t proposed anything yet. And we can change the restrictions, right? (This should not be taken in defense of animation)

Well, I went for a walk with the dog... Don't forget! Write!
Lyokha.

AB> calculation of sprites, and then scrolling them.
I apologize for not answering right away because... there were problems with mail, but _SO_ I
I just can’t ignore!!!
So, further words from 2Eugene Milun:
Hello, Zhenya! I don’t know what motivates you: anger, envy or something else,
but by your behavior towards all DR members, it is immediately clear that you are not indifferent to us (in the bad sense of the word!). I don't know what is the reason
for this - I only see the result! And what’s most incomprehensible is that not only are you trying to quarrel with all of us about any reason, but lately you’ve simply sunk to low things, to real misinformation! And
this is already too much!
Now about the flame you proposed! I’ll tell you straight away as a coder - a “professional programmer” - if you don’t fully understand something,
then you don’t need to fool other people’s brains!
First of all: I’m sorry, but your remark about checking the “real-time” effect is simply ridiculous! Is it that in order to prove that a lens, for example
works in real time, it is necessary to scroll it?! Complete nonsense!
Let it be known to you that, firstly, this will not be sufficient proof
of “real time”, because If I wish, I can easily store sprites of a lens moving along a scroll (the trajectory is given!) and only then forproof must be made of the ability for the user to move the lens across the screen himself. And secondly: is it
that, in order to prove to someone that this lens works in real time, I have to
run some stupid scroll across the screen, which is neither in the village nor in the city and in general doesn’t fit there? How did you even think of such crap?!
Now about my lens in “7th Reality”! Here I would immediately like to ask: did you come up with such an “experiment” yourself, or did someone suggest it? :)
And if you are so smart that you were able to use your cool Scorpio
monitor to stop our demo and “experiment” on it, then let me
ask - where were your brains at that time? Or have they completely forgotten how to think, all the time busy with the problem of throwing mud at someone else from DR? Since you are the happy owner of such a wonderful shadow machine, then why didn’t you bother to look at the code at least out of the corner of your eye? Or do you think that if
the lousy 32x32 lens from Noumenon takes the background from the screen, then all the others
necessarily did the same? Was it really so difficult for you to notice that the image with which the lens works is not in the screen but from address #8000? :)))
Or was your train of thought such that “if I lost the screens and she
restores the image, then it’s suxxx and not in real time”? If you don’t believe me, I can
echo the source codesthrow it (especially because of you I had to dig them up on disks)!
And note that all this was written _a_year_before_Noumenon_!!! And although it
does not claim to have record-breaking performance, it was the _first_ implementation of the lens effect known to me on the Spectrum!
By the way, (this is not bragging or an attempt to show “here, they say, how cool I am,”
but a statement of fact) Digital Reality was also the first to be implemented on Spectrum
such popular effects as “plasma” (in the intro to Turn in the fall of 1995)
and “fire” (in the intro to the first DOOM release somewhere in the fall of 1996). Well, the lens,
it (as far as I know) was first implemented on the Spectrum in our
demo at ENLiGHT'96. Oh, yes, I also forgot to bump mapping (a full-fledged implementation
and not a fake) in Binary Love was also (as far as I know) the first implementation
of this effect on the Spectrum!

PN> Here you noticed correctly, but I didn’t like E. Milun’s answer - somehow he didn’t write it in a team-like manner.
Well, it makes no sense to repeat that neither I nor “Stars of Kelanad” participated in the writing of this demo. So ? As well as, probably, repeating that
I may have my own opinion on any issue, and this opinion may
not coincide with someone else?

2 Sergey Novikov:
In general, your attempt to ignite a flame makes me laugh. First, you attack me about this deme, and expect my answers in the style of “you yourself are a Saxon, and the deme is a rulez.” Then, when I partially agree with you, you abruptly change
direction - “... what kind of group is this... I would support it at least for comradely reasons...”, etc.
Well, let’s say I accepted your idea of “group partnership” (which
is actually global "approved"), then:
1) It is not clear why both Matvey and Grigoryev so vehemently denied their participation in your "releases", their participation in your Revival, as well as
your membership in the editorial board of the SPF. Both you and they signed as “Step”, which means...
And that means exactly the same situation exists as with NOUMENON.
2) It is unclear whether in the future it will be possible to present any claims to anyone
about any programs,made in his city? Judging by the usual logic, it is impossible, since he may not be their author. Judging by your
logic - it is possible, since he is from the same city.
3) It is unclear whether in the future, when talking about some kind of program,
talk not about which _group_ made it, but talk exclusively about
in which _city_ it was made, and all groups and spectrists at the same time consider this city as something unified? Or does this approach apply only to programs from Samara?
4) It is not clear whether spectrists of any city, out of a “feeling of camaraderie,” should always and everywhere praise _all_ programs created in their
city, regardless of their own opinion about them? Or, again, such
responsibility lies only with Samara?

AH> I agree, there are such people, but you shouldn’t crush real
AH> muzakers because of them. Moreover, now the majority of those who write the muse themselves.
AH> The question is different, quality, but that’s a different conversation.
Everyone suffers from quality. True, there were several normal tunes E96 by Joe,
DNK...

Tuesday April 28, 1998 21:22, Alex Baskakov wrote to Evgeny Milun:

AB> What do you mean by animation? Or in another way: How do you feel about the intro
AB> from the DR Doom prerelease? (Funky stars) Does it satisfy the FT rules about
AB> animation or not?

It does.

AB> No, if you please... We make the rules. And how can you adhere to your own

Rules have already been “made”.

AB> rules that have not yet been invented. After all, those that exist do not take into account the opinions
AB> of everyone.
AB> For example, I haven’t proposed anything yet. And we can change the restrictions,
AB> right? (This should not be taken as a defense of animation)

It's a bit late... The first version of the rules was published last year. Then we had to express our opinions. Now preparations are underway for the festival, changing something now is suicide, discussing it is a waste of time. We are not software makers and cannot “postpone the release due to circumstances beyond our control.” Moreover, changing the rules later than six months before the event is contrary to the Civil Code (the part regulating the holding of public competitions).

AB> Well, I went for a walk with the dog... Don't forget! Write!
AB> Lyokha.

Sincerely, Dmitry (OLDMAN).
ZXNet:095/100.1
old...@i-connect.ru

DG> A bit late... The first version of the rules was published last year. Then
DG> we had to express our opinions. Now preparations are underway for the
DG> festival, changing something now is suicide, discussing is a waste of
DG> time. We are not soft makers and cannot “postpone the release due to circumstances beyond our control
DG>.” Moreover, changing the rules later than six months before
DG> the event is contrary to the Civil Code (the part
DG> regulating the conduct of public competitions).
What, Funtop99 will not happen?

AG> 2AB: To be honest, I didn’t give a damn about EM’s opinion on issues in which he
AG> is, to put it mildly, incompetent! And on my own behalf I would like to add that in general there are
AG> several types of effects and, accordingly, demos:
AG> 1) Effects for the public (usually fast and beautiful, but often their
AG> implementation is quite simple). An example of such effects is Binary
AG> Love - to be honest, there is practically not a single effect there that required
AG> any _really_ hard coding, but all this together
AG> looks quite beautiful (even I like it - there is still something in it.
AG> ..)! 2) Effects for coders (these, as a rule, for an ordinary user may
AG> seem like complete crap, because they often look quite unsightly,
AG> but the coder is simply delighted with such effects!) Just like
AG> the 1st part of Paroxyzm belongs to this type of effects! And what you
AG> consider “ugly demos” are actually demos _for_coders_,
AG> sometimes only they can appreciate such demos! (Example - Spirius by MAYhEM).
I understand that from the point of view of the encoder, the 1st part of PXM is cool, but it’s terribly
slow! Let's do flights over cities with raytrace, etc. It will be
cool, but for a frame of 5 seconds. I understand that demos for coders also need to be written, but not untilto the same degree! Well, melon-melun is a brake.

And I like Spirius@ myself.

EM>> zeros, and the 7th - #FF (or vice versa, I don’t remember exactly now), return to
EM>> the program, and... just look at what will happen on the screen.
RP> Your arguments are not the fact that the lens is pre-drawn in memory.
RP> Such counterargument - do you want to say that DR is so lame that not
RP> can display a 4x4 sprite in one interruption?
I don’t want to say that DR is lame, I just want to say what I said -
there have been too many cartoons lately.
(By the way, it was not me who translated the conversation from animation to DR. "U who hurts what..."
After all, with a strong desire, that phrase of mine about animation could be considered
as addressed to the organizers of Enlight...)

A cartoon, but not one where frames and pictures are displayed. For example, in some demo there is a face on the screen and it blinks an eye - animation. As I already said, the lens
(in the case when the image for the area under the lens is not taken from the screen) is
already on the edge, but still closer to animation. Some kind of ball rotating and bouncing off objects “in a box” is no longer animation (though in the case when the phases of this ball were immediately pre-constructed and not stored in memory in advance). Well, etc. All this, of course, is a purely subjective
assessment...

AB> Or in another way: How do you feel about the intro from
AB> the DR Doom prerelease? (Funky stars)
To be honest, I even forgot what she looks like.
AB> Does it meet the FT animation rules or not?

S> Well, what do you mean by this? Why can't we write Samara instead of a one-day group? What's the difference, anyway? Moreover, according to all reports
S> the demo is under the copyright of the team of authors.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you hadn’t been flaming right and left here, then in the very first seconds
of Noumenon’s work I saw what the “collective of authors” called themselves. And you, apparently, forgot that the word “copyright” will come into play... Then, I will take the liberty to remind you - this means that you must indicate the names of the authors and the names of the groups as the authors themselves did. And you shouldn’t come up with your own names for this
“team of authors”.

Tuesday April 28 1998 23:55, Alexander Grimalovsky ─── Alex Baskakov:

AG> So, further words 2Eugene Milun:
AG> Hello, Zhenya! I don’t know what motivates you: anger, envy or something else
AG>, but from your behavior towards all DR members it is immediately clear that
AG> you are not indifferent to us (in the bad sense of the word!).
I repeat again. I am not only indifferent to _you_ (in a good sense),
but also vice versa (the same in a good sense). I'm only partial to the way some "members" here represented your group. (In the end, why can
Novikov judge SOK based on me alone, but I can’t? :)))

AG> I don’t know what
AG> is the reason for this - I only see the result! And what’s most incomprehensible -
AG> not only are you trying to quarrel with all of us on any occasion, but
AG> lately you have simply sunk to low things, to real
AG> misinformation!
First of all, I’m not trying to quarrel, but I’m speaking my opinion. If it doesn't
coincide with someone else's (in particular with the opinions of SN and AH), then for some reason
immediately the question of "flame" arises...

[.....]

AG> people! First of all: I’m sorry, but your remark about checking
AG> for the “real-time” effect is simply ridiculous! What is this to prove that
AG> lensfor example, it works in real time, do you have to let it scroll?!
No. If this is how you understood it, then I apologize. I meant
that, as a rule, lenses that do not cross real-time scrolling are implemented by animation.

AG> Complete nonsense! Let it be known to you that, firstly, this will not be
AG> sufficient proof of “real time”, because If I wish, I can completely
AG> store sprites of a lens moving along a scroll (the trajectory is set!)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, I didn’t pull your tongue... :))

AG> got my head in? How did you even think of such nonsense?! Now about my lens
AG> in "7th Reality"! Here I would like to ask right away: did you come up with this “experiment” yourself, or did someone suggest it? :). You said here that you can actually “steer from the keyboard.” And therefore, since then we have been very closely monitoring all
similar effects...

AG> And if you are so smart that
AG> you were able to stop our demo with the help of your cool Scorpov monitorand
AG> “experiment” on it, then let me ask - where were your brains
AG> at that time?
Read above. And so that you don’t fall into this insanity that some “sceners” suffer from here, I’ll explain that if I didn’t do something, it doesn’t mean that I don’t have enough qualifications, since there is another explanation
- I just don’t have the desire (there was a conversation here about “where were you when we
did ZH, why not you will do exactly the same thing,” and about “I managed to organize
my own group and you didn’t, which means I’m smarter than you,” etc.).
That’s why I already told you about “where I was”... And to be even more precise, then at
that time I was already making my ZX-WinWord program (and you know that There are only 2 programs of this kind so far? Mine and Kovalevsky?). And my soul
never lay and never lies in the demo structure...

AG>? Was it really so difficult for you to notice that the image with which the lens works is not in the screen but from address #8000? :))) Or your
AG> train of thought was such that “if I lost the screens and she
AG> restores the image, it means it’s suxxx and not in real time”?
Then give the definition of a real-time lens.

AG> And note that all this was written _a_year_before_Noumenon_!!!
Note that our lens was written _one and a half_ _year_ beforeNoumenon'a.

AG> And although it doesn't claim record-breaking
AG> performance, it was the _first_ implementation of the lens
AG> effect on the Spectrum that I know of!
Maybe it's just for you.
AG> By the way, (this is not bragging or an attempt to show “here, they say,
AG> how cool I am,” but a statement of fact) Digital Reality was also the first
AG> to implement on the Spectrum such popular effects as “plasma” (in
AG> intro to Turn in the fall of 1995)
I don’t presume to judge, but... As far as I understand, the “plasma” effect is not so
far from the effect that is in LYRA. And then, by any chance, is this not the Turn that hangs almost immediately? :))
AG> and “fire” (in the intro to the first release of DOOM somewhere in the fall of 1996).
I can’t argue with this since I already forgot what kind of fire there was in the Duma.

AG> Well, the lens, it (as far as I know) was implemented for the first time
AG> on the Spectrum in our demo on ENLiGHT'96.
Very good disclaimer _on_ _Spectrum_. Please tell me, how is “on the Spectrum” fundamentally different from, say, “on the Amiga”? :))

S> I say, in any normal (social) group there must be
S> in-group favoritism, i.e. unconditional support by all members of the group
S> for the actions of their group, no matter what their nature. For example, if someone in your family commits a crime, you won’t go and give him away.
“You won’t give him away” is one thing, but “if you say, well, you did the right thing” is quite another thing.

S> The fans support their team: regardless of whether the players
S> committed a violation or not, everyone will shout that nothing happened. Etc.
This already has another name - fanaticism.

S> If one person in your group can publicly speak badly about the work
S> of a group mate, then this indicates the fragility of relationships within the group.
Read my lips: the SOK group did not participate in the creation of this demo accepted.

In my opinion, the simplest limitation against animation is a limit on the size of the demo (for example, 510 sectors, although this is not ideal). Indeed, in many cases
decrunch animation does not mean that people are not fumbling, but just the opposite,
an effect that can never be done in real time on spec in the usual way can be
broken to 1/50 at the cost of enormous efforts (read - decrunch). One condition: the frames
must be precisely calculated.
After all, the epilogue in Vibrations is also, by and large, an animation.
But EyeAche2 is, in my opinion, too much, when tens of kilobytes of pre-prepared data are simply loaded from disk... Although there are cool effects there.

Lazy of ETC Group (ZX & PC).

Thu Apr 30 1998 20:26, Alex Baskakov wrote to Alexander Grimalovsky:
AB> I understand that from the point of view of the encoder, the 1st part of PXM is cool, but
AB> it is terribly slow!
Such effects require a characteristic mood - without preliminary preparation,
the viewer begins to be enraged by the slowness of what is happening and the absence of a skip.
AB> Let's do flights over cities with raytrace, etc.
A parody of the effect, and even slower
AB> It will be cool, but for a frame of 5 seconds.
Depending on how to do it and what kind of music to play it to...
AB> I understand that demos for
AB> coders also need to be written, but not to the same extent! Well, melon-melun
^^^^^^^^^^^faq?
AB> brake.
AB> And I like Spirius@ myself.
Coders are people too - :)

Okay, you can output a sprite... but is there a fast algorithm that fits into
this one interruption, which generates a lens??? (I mean convex
lens + speed as in the demo)

EM> I don’t want to say that DR is lamer, I just want to say what
EM> said - there have been too many cartoons lately. (By the way,
EM> it wasn’t me who switched the conversation from animation to DR. “Who hurts..."
EM> After all, with a strong desire, that phrase of mine about animation could
EM> be considered as addressed to the organizers of Enlight...)

As for the subject, I’ll say that one person here did it (XCB from Freeman's Stuff). So there
there were matrices for transferring the image from the screen to the lens, and lenses can be generated with absolutely any distortion... But the speed is slow...

C uv. Alexey aka Virtual Man !

... The Show Must Go On .... [ Team ZxSpectrum ][ Team Profi ]

It so happened that on Wednesday April 29, 1998 at 00:56 Alexander Grimalovsky wrote
to Alex Baskakov on the topic: "Re: FUNTOP98 iNFO"
So I press the keys...

[...]

AG> statement of fact) Digital Reality was also the first to be implemented on Spectrum
AG> now has such popular effects as “plasma” (in the intro to Turn in the fall of
AG> 1995) and “fire” (in the intro to the first release of DOOM somewhere in the fall of
AG> 1996).

But I would like to clarify about fire. Have you seen the demo "2 Years of F.F.F.", made in September 1995? There's fire there, even if it's small! ;)

All the best to you!
Alexey.

... Use the Force! Trust your feelings. And turn off the computer...

AH>> real muzakers. Besides, now there is still a majority of those
AH>> who write the muse themselves. The question is something else, quality, but that's a different matter.

AB> Everyone suffers from quality. True, there were several normal melodies
AB> E96 by Joe, DNK...

No need. Everyone is already disgusted by Dynkovsky’s music. The man writes good background
musons that are suitable for magazines and intros, but listening to them separately is simply
_impossible_.

Sincerely, Captain/56.

Thursday April 30, 1998 21:34, Alex Baskakov wrote to Dmitry Grigoryev:

AB> What, Funtop99 won’t happen?

It depends only on how FunTop98 goes... If, God forbid, like
Enlight97, then alas :( And this will happen if, in addition to dem, The festival
will also bring a couple of hundred pictures, music and intros, if there is no time for
testing and selection. And you still want us to take on the additional
load in the form of digital/realtime compo, etc. To carry out the announced ones at a
decent level...

AB> it’s terribly slow! Let's do flights over cities with
AB> raytrace, etc. It will be cool, but for a 5 second frame. I
AB> understand that demos for coders also need to be written, but not to the same
AB> extent! Well, melon-melun is a brake.

^^^^^^^^^ something will happen now ;)))

Sincerely, Alexey Ivanov

RP> can they display a 4x4 sprite in one interruption? Have you noticed
RP> that the lens flies there in more than one interruption? It is not a fact that to calculate
RP> the lens the image is taken from the screen; with a very high
RP> probability it can be taken from the main memory.
Thank you for your support! That's exactly what was done there! And the screen there is with #8000.
But the lens is 6x6, not 4x4 :) And about the fact that it’s not interrupted - it’s definitely
noticed, it’s just that I was too lazy to optimize the calculation procedure - I did
everything on IX and IY :)

PS: People, if anyone still has doubts, then As proof
I can throw in the full sources of this effect - see for yourself how it’s done!

AB>> restrictions, right? (This should not be taken in defense
AB>> of animation)

EM> In my opinion, the simplest restriction against animation is a restriction on
EM> the size of the demo (for example, 510 sectors, although this is not ideal). After all, in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, yes, but if I have several digital Mouzons, will you also order them
to be created in real time? ;)) Here 510 seconds is just not enough. And they already decided on the disk,
let there be a disk.

EM> in many cases, the animation de-crunch does not mean that people are not fumbling,
EM> on the contrary, an effect that can never be done in real time on the
EM> spec
EM> in the usual way it is possible to break it down to 1/50 at a huge cost effort (read
EM> - dekpanchey). One condition: frames must be calculated. After all
EM> the epilogue in Vibrations is also, by and large, animation. But
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Let's say 50/50%, but it's beautiful.

EM> Lazy of ETC Group (ZX & PC).

AB> What do you mean by animation? Or in another way: How do you feel about the intro
AB> from the DR Doom prerelease? (Funky stars) Does it satisfy the FT rules about
AB> animation or not?
DG> Satisfies.
????
That is. Would you not allow such an intro before the competition? Then I would really like
to hear from one of Funtop's organizers a _DEFINITION_ of _WHAT_
_IS_ _ANIMATION_?
For the attention of the public, _all_ animation phases are _CREATED_ before the start of the
intro (otherwise why would such a beautiful heart be drawn there? :)

AG> Well, the lens, it (as far as I know) was first AG> implemented on
Spectrum in our demo at ENLiGHT'96. Not for the sake of flame, but for the sake of information - I saw the lens in the fall of 95 at Cobra (OverTheTop Megademo).

ps: please, no comment.
With the best, Denis.

EM> In my opinion, the simplest limitation against animation is a limit on
EM> the size of the demo (for example, 510 sectors, although this is not ideal). Indeed, in many
EM> cases, animation de-crunch does not mean that people are not fumbling, but just
EM> on the contrary, an effect that can never be done in real time on spec in the usual
EM> way can be cracked at 1/50 at the cost of enormous efforts (read -
EM> de-crunches). One condition: the frames must be precisely calculated.
EM> After all, the epilogue in Vibrations is also, by and large, an animation.
EM> But EyeAche2 is, in my opinion, too much, when tens of kilobytes
EM> of pre-prepared data are simply loaded from disk... Although there are cool effects there
EM>.
I don’t know what to do, but I really
liked the animation in S4B and Power Up - the demos look cooler with it. Maybe the hell with it, with animation?
Shall we sacrifice for the sake of art? (Of course, still to a certain extent)

AG> 2AB: To be honest, I didn’t give a damn about EM’s opinion on issues in which he
AG> is, to put it mildly, incompetent! And on my own behalf I would like to add that in general there are
AG> several types of effects and, accordingly, demos:
AG> 1) Effects for the public (usually fast and beautiful, but often their
AG> implementation is quite simple). An example of such effects is
Binary
AG> Love - to be honest, there is practically not a single effect there that required
AG> any _really_ hard coding, but all this together
AG> looks quite beautiful (even I like it - there is still something in it.
AG> ..)! 2) Effects for coders (these, as a rule, for the average user may
AG> seem like complete crap, because they often look quite unsightly,
AG> but the coder is simply delighted with such effects!) Just
AG> the 1st part of Paroxyzm belongs to this type of effects! And what you
AG> consider “ugly demos” are actually demos _for_coders_,
AG> sometimes only they can appreciate such demos! (Example - Spirius by MAYhEM).

EM>>>> program, and... just look at what will happen on the screen.
RP>>> Your arguments are not the fact that the lens is pre-drawn in memory.
RP>>> Such a counterargument - you want to say that DR is so lame that it cannot display 4x4 sprite in one interruption?

AB>> intre from DR Doom's prerelease? (Funky stars) Does it satisfy
AB>> rules
AB>> FT about animation or not?
DG>> Satisfies.

AG> ????
AG> That is. Would you not allow such an intro before the competition? Then I would really
AG> like to hear from one of Funtop's organizers a _DEFINITION_
AG> of _WHAT_ _IS_ _ANIMATION_? For the attention of the public, _all_ phases of
AG> animations are _CREATED_ before the start of the intro (otherwise why would such
AG> a beautiful heart be drawn there? :)

You don’t understand, it’s satisfying in a positive sense!

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · · · · Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·

EM> standard spec
Well, why not.
Animation should not be used for effects.
It is better to use it on accompanying cartoons between parts of the
demo.
Due to these cartoons, the demo will not be boring and you will want to
watch it again and again.

Sincerely, Dmitry (SchemeMan) coder, artist and iron worker.
╔══════════════════╗
║ DARK SOULS GROUP ║
╚══════════════════╝

AB>> I understand that demos for coders also need to be written, but not to the same
AB>> extent! Well, melon-melun is a brake.
AI> ^^^^^^^^^ something will happen now ;)))
And what will happen? :). :)
Only, I don’t understand how he knows what we call S-Terminal?
And why, when talking about demos, did we talk about the terminal, only Allah
knows? :)))

01 May 98 20:41, Alexey Ilyin reported to Evgeny Milun about {Re: Lens in demos}:

AI> As for the subject, I’ll say that one person here did it (XCB from Freemans Stuff). So
AI> there were matrices for transferring the image from the screen to the lens, and lenses
AI> can be generated with absolutely any distortion... But the speed is slow...

Is there really another way besides the matrix (for _real-time_ lenses)?

With warm regards, Glory!

[ Powered by Windows'95 ]

AG>> demo and “experiment” with it, then let me ask - where in
AG>> were your brains at that time?

EM> Read above. And so that you don’t fall into this insanity that some “sceners” suffer from here, I’ll explain that if I haven’t done something, it doesn’t mean that I don’t have enough qualifications, since there is another explanation - I just don’t have the desire (there was a conversation here about “where have you been, when we did ZH, why don’t you do exactly the same thing,” and about “I
EM> managed to organize my group and you didn’t, that means I’m smarter than you,” etc.).

If Bill earned 50 billion baku, will you also deny that he is smarter than you?
A person who has achieved obviously more automatically becomes a level higher
ordinary people... Someone else’s glory haunts you =)
You keep entertaining yourself with thoughts - “I’ll show everyone yet”, in practice there is only
demagoguery...

EM> That’s why I already told you about “where I was”... And to be even more precise, then in
EM> this
EM> time I was already making my ZX-WinWord program (and you know that
EM> There are only 2 programs of this kind so far? Mine and Kovalevsky?). And
EM> my soul has never been and is not in favor of demo-building...

This is very pleasing - the way you would make a demo that vomited the countrymuch
stronger than STAR!

EM> A cartoon, but not one where frames and pictures are displayed.
Sorry, but what do you mean by “cartoon” then? Let's then try to introduce
a clear concept of _WHAT_ can be considered animation and publish an interpretation of
this term here so that such questions will not arise again! Ok?

EM> For example, in
EM> some kind of demo there is a face on the screen, and it blinks an eye - animation.
I agree!

EM> As I
EM> already said, the lens (in the case when the images for the area under the lens
EM> are not taken from the screen) is already on the edge, but still closer to animation.
??? But here I disagree! Can you explain this aspect in more detail? Where
then do you think the line lies between a “real-time lens” and a “lens on
animation”?

EM> Some kind of ball rotating and bouncing off objects “in
EM> a cell” is no longer animation (though in the case when the phases of this
EM> ball were right there pre-built rather than pre-stored in
EM> memory). Well, etc. All this, of course, is a purely subjective assessment...
So maybe you should get busy and prepare a package of definitions (clear and concise) for
the main terms used in demomaking? And then we will discuss them with the whole world
and put the result in the FAQ?

AB> Or in another way: How do you feel about the intro from
AB> the DR Doom prerelease? (Funky stars)
EM> Honestly speaking, I even forgot what it looks like.
AB> Does it satisfy the FT rules about animation or not?
2AB: Imho there is no animation there! Although I don’t know what Milun will say about this...

EM> some “sceners” suffer, I’ll explain that if I haven’t done something, then
EM> this doesn’t mean that I don’t have enough qualifications,
That’s not what we’re talking about, read below...

EM> since there is and
EM> another explanation - I just don’t have the desire (was here conversation about
EM> “where were you when we did ZH, why don’t you do exactly the same thing”,
EM> and about “I managed to organize my group and you didn’t, that means I’m smarter than you”
EM>, etc.). That’s why I already told you about “where I was”... And if
EM> more precisely, then at that time I was already making my own ZX-WinWord program (and are you aware
EM> that there are only 2 programs of this kind so far? mine and
EM> Kovalevsky?).
You are aware, but this does not apply to topic of conversation...

EM> And my soul has never been and never lies in the
EM> demo structure...
Nope, there is no such letter! (c) ...
The conversation was about something else! I meant that if you already guessed to stop our demo, rub the screens and see what happens, then _why_ did you conclude from this that this effect _not_ works _in real-time?
Was it really so difficult to try to understand the code that you understand that your
initial opinion is wrong! After all, you love to argue _reasonably_ so much,
did you really consider your _conjectures_ not supported by _facts_based on
_analysis_of_code_ sufficient for statements similar to the one with which
this dispute began?
And the fact that you are not a demomaker does not matter, to each his own. However, you know assembler, and, I think, quite well - you could first understand the principles of the program, and then write a message, which, for example, for me is a personal insult (!!!), because discredits me as a programmer in the eyes of the Spectrumists, claiming that in my demos I stoop to using animation, passing it off as a real-time effect!

DG>> It’s a bit late... The first version of the rules was published last year.
DG>> It was then that we should have expressed our opinions. Now we are preparing for
DG>> the festival, changing something now is suicide, discussing -
DG>> is a waste of time. We are not soft makers and cannot “postpone the release due to circumstances beyond our control.” Moreover, changing the rules
DG>> later than six months before the event contradicts the
DG>> Civil Code (the part regulating the holding of public
DG>> competitions).

At 23:07, Sunday May 03 1998 there was such a thing that
Alexander Grimalovsky scribbled a letter Roman Petrov:

RP>> can with a very high probability be taken from the main memory.
AG> Thank you for your support! That's exactly what was done there! And the screen lies there with
AG> #8000. But the lens is 6x6, not 4x4 :) And as for the fact that there is no support, it was just a shame that a person naively assumes that if their picture for the lens is taken from the screen, then it should be like that for everyone. Well, about the size ;-) Well, I didn’t look closely,
the last time I watched 7th Reality was a couple of months ago.
AG> the interruption was definitely noticed, I was just too lazy to do the procedure at the time
Well, the experienced eye of a coder couldn’t help but notice this feature of the effect.
By the way, IMHO, this in no way detracts from its merits. Before this, all lenses
were made quite crookedly, your lens was really the first
“real” lens.

AG> PS: Folks, if anyone still has doubts, then as
AG> evidence I can throw in the full source code of this effect - see for yourself
AG> how it’s done!
If you don’t mind, then throw it in ;-)

C Respectfully, Roman aka Megus of BrainWave association.

[Team ZX-Spectrum] [Team Agatha Christie] [Team Metallica] [Team Iron Maiden]

AB> I understand that from the point of view of the encoder, the 1st part of PXM is cool, but
AB> is terribly slow!
AG> Well, I wouldn’t say about terribly, although I may be wrong - I saw it a long time ago, but
AG> is not at hand :( But imho it slows down no more than a textured cube in
AG> Spirius
Well from the very beginning demos are not good...

AB> Let's do flights over cities with raytrace, etc.
AG> :))) You may not believe it, but this is exactly what I wanted to do at the end for
AG> Binary Love! It even seemed like it started, only then it scored...
Labour/stunningness didn’t suit you?

AG> ??? But here I disagree! Can you explain this aspect in more detail? Where
AG> then do you think there is a line between a “real-time lens” and a “lens on
AG> animation”?
This line is very unsteady... IMHO, the screen can be considered as it. At least due to the fact that... a lens is also a lens in Africa. Its very name means
"the effect of enlarging some part of the image." And adding “real-time”,
imho, means “the effect of enlarging part of the _real_ (and not stored somewhere
in memory) image”...

[.....]
AG> supported by _facts_ based on _code_analysis_ sufficient for
AG> statements like the one with which this dispute began? And the fact that you are not a demo maker does not matter, to each his own. However, you know assembler, and I
AG> think it’s not bad - you could first understand the principles of the program, and
Okay, let’s say this - I went crazy. :)

AG> understand that your initial opinion is wrong! After all, you so love
AG> to _reasonably_ argue, do you really consider your _conjectures_ not
AG> and then write a message, which, for example, for me
AG> is a _personal_ insult_ (!!!), because discredits me as
AG> a programmer in the eyes of spektrumists, claiming that in my demos I
AG> stoop to using animation, passing it off as a real-time effect!
Ok. Sorry.

AG> Please: any real-time effect (including a lens) is
AG> a sequence of frames
AG> _calculated_immediately_before_output_on_the_screen_ Ie. if a given
AG> sequence of frames is read from disk, then this is animation, and if
AG> frames are obtained by some kind of information processing directly
AG> before constructing the next frame on the screen - this is real-time.
AG> Are you comfortable with this definition?
No, not satisfied. It's too vague. Thisthe oldest definition of
animation. More precisely, it is an ancient way of producing what is called “computer
animation.” Another method has been used for a long time - preset objects
(sprites) move along predetermined or calculated trajectories.
Continuing the conversation. There are such packages distributed by IFC - "Animator" and "Master of Something" (I don't remember the exact names now). So, under your concept of animation only the video of the first package will fall, and the ANIMATED video of the second will be real-time. Similarly, a simple program in Laser BASIC, which
will display a given sprite on the screen according to a given algorithm, (and sometimes
modify it via poke) will also fall under this definition of
real time/animation. "animation"...

AB> but
AB> it’s terribly slow! Let's do flights over cities
AB> with
AB> raytrace, etc. It will be cool, but for a frame of 5 seconds.
AB> I
AB> understand that demos for coders also need to be written, but not to
AB> the same
AB> extent! Well, melon-melun is a brake.
AI>

No, what the hell, such restrictions! And what kind of demo will it turn out to be?
Just some kind of 128kb intro :) You can’t cram a bunch of graphics in there, nor digital music...

EM> After all, in
EM> many cases, the animation de-crunch does not mean that people are not fumbling, but
EM> just the opposite, the effect, which you can never make real time on spec
EM> in the usual way, you can break it down to 1/50 at the cost of enormous effort (read
EM> - decrunch).
Oh!!! Exactly!

EM> One condition: frames must be calculated.
??? Why exactly? In general, animation frames can be stored in different ways!
And if, for example, I draw a cartoon using lines and only store
the coordinates of points and draw them in real-time, what is that? It seems to be animation, but it seems to be not... No, imho we need to clearly define ourselves here!

EM> After all, the epilogue in Vibrations is also, by and large, animation. But
EM> EyeAche2 - this, in my opinion, is too much, when tens of kilobytes of previously prepared
EM> data are simply loaded from disk... Although there are
EM> cool effects there.
Wow! This leads to a completely logical question: what percentage of animation is acceptable? Those. How to feel about the animation in Power UP? Those. it seems like animation in
pure form... But there are also a lot of effects in real-time.
On the other hand, such rules regarding animations as on FUNTOP are very easy to bypass!As an example, I can cite demos such as Channel 88
by F.U.S.E. on PC (3rd place on Intel Outside'97) and Eclipse by Triumph on
Amiga. Both have only _1_ (ONE!) real-time effect, everything
the rest is pure MPEG :))) And yet they were admitted to the party, and
Eclipse, in my opinion, even took 2nd place!
That is. Following these principles, I can, for example, fill an animation on the entire disk, and at the beginning or at the end, start scrolling, for example! That's it, it won't be pure animation anymore, at least according to the rules! :)))))))

PS 2 All: If anyone uses this idea of ​​mine, I'll ask for Pepsi on Funtop! :)))

Friday May 01 1998 16:54, Alexey Legotin wrote to Alexander Grimalovsky:

AG>> statement of fact) Digital Reality was also the first to implement on
AG>> Spectrum such popular effects as “plasma” (in the intro to Turn
AG>> in the fall 1995) and “fire” (in the intro to DOOM’s first release somewhere
AG>> in the fall of 1996).

AL> But I would like to clarify about fire. Have you seen the demo "2 Years of F.F.F.",
AL> made in September 1995? There's fire there, even if it's small! ;)

Same as plasma in Lyra 2??? =)))

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·

AG> statement of fact) Digital Reality was also the first to implement on the Spectrum
AG> such popular effects as “plasma” (in the intro to Turn in the fall
AG> of 1995) and “fire” (in the intro to the first release of DOOM sometime in the fall
AG> 1996).

AG>> this sequence of frames is read from the disk - then this is
AG>> animation, and if the frames are obtained by some kind of information processing
AG>> immediately before constructing the next frame on the screen - this is
AG>> real-time.

Exactly right. I will only add that the sequence of frames calculated immediately before the output of the _entire_ sequence is also animation. That is,
each frame must be calculated before output if you want to create
a real-time effect.

EM> No, it’s not satisfactory. It's too vague. This is the oldest definition of animation. More precisely, it is an ancient way of producing what
EM> is called “computer animation”. Another method has been used for a long time -
EM> pre-defined objects (sprites) move along predetermined or
EM> calculated trajectories. In continuation of the conversation. There are such packages
EM> distributed by IFC - “Animator” and “Master of Something” (I don’t remember exactly the names
EM> now). So, under your definition of animation only the movie
EM> of the first package will fall, and the ANIMATED movie of the second will be real-time.
EM> Similarly, under this definition of real time/animation will also fall a simple
EM> program in Laser BASIC, which will display the specified
on the screen EM> spriteaccording to a given algorithm, (and sometimes modify it through poke) -
EM> does not fall under “animation”...

But this is just the nonsense of a drunken donkey. Don't pay attention... Milun, as usual,
covers up his lack of education with a fig leaf of verbiage, in real time ;)
inventing definitions, Laws, Codes... Don't argue with him - it's useless, he really
really believes in what is born in his inflamed brain ;)

Thursday May 14, 1998 00:46, Alexander Grimalovsky wrote to Eugene Mironchuk:

AG> That is. Following these principles, I can, for example, fill an animation on the entire disk,
AG> and at the beginning or at the end, for example, start a scroll! That's it, it will no longer be pure
AG> animation, at least according to the rules! :)))))))

Phrase from the rules: “Real-time effects should dominate in the demo.” No
percentages will be calculated, everything will be determined “by eye”.

AG> PS 2 All: If anyone uses this idea of ​​mine, I’m on Pepsi
AG>’s Funtop! :)))

No matter how those who took advantage of you demand it, when they are not allowed to the compo ;)

AG> ??? Why exactly? In general, animation frames can be stored in different ways!
AG> And if, for example, I draw a cartoon using lines and only store
AG> the coordinates of the points and draw them in real-time, what is that? Animation, it seems, but
AG> it seems not... No, here imho we need to clearly define ourselves!
It won’t work. So it will come to the point that a month before the party the analysis of the source code will begin. Who needs this?

A long time ago, on Tuesday December 15, 1998 13:54, Denis Maltov wrote to Dmitry
Meniaylov:

AB>>> Everyone suffers from quality. True, there were several normal melodies
AB>>> E96 by Joe, DNK...

DM>> No need. Everyone is already disgusted by Dynkovsky’s music. The man writes
DM>> good background music that is suitable for magazines, intros, but
DM>> listening to them separately is simply _impossible_.

DM> Off topic of course, but I listened to a new music from Joe on Ammy written.
DM> RULEZ!!!!!! I was completely overwhelmed!!!!

In the echo?
I'll be back, Denis.

DD> Not for the sake of flame, but for the sake of
DD> information - I saw the lens in the fall of 95
DD> at Cobra (OverTheTop Megademo).
Quite possible! Flash's Iris lens was also made quite a long time ago. But I was talking about the _release_ of the effect, and not about the time of its creation!

PS: Also not for the sake of flame, but for the sake of information!

Saturday May 16 1998 18:23, Dmitry Grigoryev ─── Alexander Grimalovsky:

DG> But this is just the ravings of a drunken donkey. Don't pay attention... Milun, as
DG> usually, covers up his lack of education with a fig leaf of verbiage, in
DG> real time ;)
Well, whether I'm a donkey or not, drunk or sober - the topic is not for this conference.
And I'm engaged in verbiage there (and whether it's me), raving or doing something else
- the same. If you still want to discuss this, I’ll answer.
DG> inventing definitions, Laws, Codes... Don’t argue with him -
DG> it’s useless, he really believes in what is born in his inflamed
DG> brain ;)
And you just use these Infocom programs...

AL>> made in September 1995, have you seen? There is, although small, fire!
AH> The same as plasma in Lyra 2 ??? =)))

No. Ordinary burning letters. :)

All the best to you!
Alexey.

P.S. The tape has arrived!

... Use the Force! Trust your feelings. And turn off the computer...

AL> Head. Common ruminant bulls. :)

Ah here is you pro that. Dyk then in Space Crusadres, too, fire. Only all this
other!

AL> P.S. Kacceta ппишла!

Who and how?

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru ··· · · ·

AH> Oh, that's what you're talking about... So then there is also fire in Space Crusadres... Only everything
AH> is different!

Fire and fire in Africa. :) Have you seen the demo itself?

AL>> P.S. The cassette has arrived!
AH> So how?

Reviews are soap.

All the best to you!
Alexey.

AH>> all this is different!

AL> Fire and fire in Africa. :) Have you seen the demo itself?

No, IMHO, the principles are different =)

cYa, aR7Y/dR/FW · · · ··· Email: ar...@telecom.nov.ru · · · · · ·