That's what I was inspired by.
ZXNet echo conference «real.speccy»
Subject. And he will say these phrases only while viewing other people’s demos. It’s like saying to a person eating sausage, “Hey, they crammed 10% of last year’s meat, 50% cellulose, 30% starch in here, and it looks So why am I talking about this? Oh yes, gentlemen, coders, please refrain from such statements, especially at parties. Remember, demos are made for viewers, not for Bye, All.
I, as a Spectrum encoder, came to the conclusion that coders should not be allowed to
view demos. More precisely, it is possible to allow it, but it is necessary to deprive them of the opportunity
to express their thoughts about the implementation of this or that effect. A coder is such a rare bastard that can completely ruin the mood from watching a beautiful demo, vulgarizing it with just a couple of phrases like:
“Ah! I know, this is done poorly. It uses ,
and this economy can also be optimized at one and a half times the speed.”
Everything the above, to some extent, applies to me.
pretty moldy.”
coders. Sit back, forget about registers, stack, algorithms for a while, and
become a simple spectator.
WBR, Vivid^Brainwave of the X-Project association.
On Friday June 01 2001 Aleksey Malov wrote to All:
AM> Moreover, he will say these phrases only while watching other people's
AM> demos. All of the above, to some extent, applies to me.
This some degree did not hesitate to appear yesterday, when you and Tigger
came to me and you asked me to show you the Amiga Arte. In general, Vivid came and
vulgarized everything. And what a beautiful demo it was :( :)))
So really, coders, listen to Vivid’s advice.
PS: Lesha, we’ll see how you will behave at CC’1 :)
Bye, Aleksey!
Megus/Brainwave^X-Project. http://brainwave.dax.ru
AM> Subject. AM> Moreover, he will say these phrases only during time to watch other people's demos. p.s. does anyone want to object?
AM> I, as a Spectrum coder, came to the conclusion that coders should not be allowed
AM> to view demos. More precisely, it is possible to allow it, but it is necessary to deprive them of the opportunity
AM> to express their thoughts about the implementation of this or that effect. The coder -
AM> is such a rare bastard that can completely ruin the mood from
AM> watching a beautiful demo, vulgarizing it with just a couple of phrases like:
AM> “Ah! I know, this is done poorly. It uses
AM> in speed.”
AM> All of the above, to some extent, applies to me.
AM> So what am I talking about? Oh yes, gentlemen, coders, please refrain from
AM> such statements, especially at parties. Remember, demos are made for
AM viewers, not for coders. Sit back comfortably, forget about
AM> registers, stack, algorithms for a while, and become a simple spectator.
In general, this conclusion suggests itself, aka a call to coders: don’t bother with
cool algorithms. For what? no one will get into the code. Use more
unusual effects, such as colored chunks (not 8x8), music with digital inserts,
multicolors on the border, more populist slogans(especially those related to
alcohol), and if you want something cool, then render it on an offtopic and
convert it into animation, etc.
In general, as sad as it may be, this will be enough to take 1st place in the next demo. And this is not a joke;(
cYa, J7n/4D.
Sat 2 Jun 2001, at 15:13:43 Vassili Klimov told Aleksey Malov about This
inspired..
VK> in general, this suggests such a conclusion, aka a call to coders: don’t bother
VK> with cool algorithms. For what? no one will get into the code. Use
No, you don't quite understand. The demo should have cool effects, because they give it power, but viewing them should not strain the viewer. The effect should look
“Easy and relaxed”, regardless of how much the encoder had to break to implement it.
VK> more unusual effects, such as colored chunks (not 8x8), music with
VK> digital
Chunks + attributes, IMHO, not the most beautiful sight. Sometimes even the attributes
spoil everything.
VK> with inserts, multicolors on the border, more populist slogans
VK> (especially those related to alcohol), and if you want something cool, then
I am exactly against populist slogans. And if they exist, then they should not
compensate for the lack of coolness of the code and the beauty of the demo.
VK> render it on the offtopic and convert it into animation, etc.
I am also against converted animation if it is intended to compensate
for the lack of effects. The animation should be casual and not disrupt the overall dynamics of the demo. For example, in Refresh animation serves to maintain
the dynamics of the demo. In Napalm - neither to the village nor to the city. In Devotion- to maintain
dynamics. Forever and Anamnesis compensate for the lack of effects; without animation, they are rather mediocre demos. In Dogma - just as part of the effect. In Jam -
for showing off and compensating for a small number of weak effects.
VK> In general, as sad as it may be, this will be quite enough to take
VK> 1st place in the next demo compo. And this is not a joke;(
Of course, I will try to look at the demos as a spectator, but when a demo with
ugly and weak code tries to ride on populism and/or animation, I
will stop this matter. When viewing a strong demo, I will take the possible animation
calmly.
VK> p.s. does anyone want to object?
Let's wait and see.
Bye, Vassili.
AM> No, you don't quite understand. The demo should have cool effects, because they
AM> give it power, but viewing them should not strain the viewer. The effect should
AM> look “Easy and effortless”, regardless of how hard
AM> the coder had to break to implement it.
As a coder, I can’t agree with you. Trying so hard to make it look
mediocre?
VK> as a coder I can’t agree with you. Trying so hard to make this
VK> look mediocre?
We don't seem to understand each other. Let me give you an example: The most painful parts for me
in terms of implementation in Tryptomine Dream were multicolor voxels for 3
ints and Mirror Rotator for 2, because there it was necessary to switch screens asynchronously
with the drawing of the image, i.e. for example, in Mirror Rotator, one line
was calculated in approximately 1330 cycles, and screens had to be switched after 896
cycles. However, these look easy and relaxed, as if they don’t particularly strain the processor, but produce a rather strong impression, so they don’t strain the viewer. But when 3D flooded, the viewer was involuntarily conveyed the hemorrhoids of the technical implementation of phong shading and env. mapping Such
effects strain the viewer. Or take, for example, Exploder's Freedom on the Amiga.
No one will say that the code there is weak, but the spectacular effects justify the name of the demo. There is a feeling of freedom, flight, not constrained by the limitations of the
platform.
VK> the color of each screen - its own color (not changing) + switching screens
VK> 50hz, we get 4 colors per pixel or 64 colors per chunk pixel (4x4) or
VK> 16
VK> colors (2x2)
Ah, I thought that Are you talking about those attributes, like in C2H5OH-2.
AM>> ride on populismand/or animation, I will stop this matter. When watching
AM>> a strong demo, I will treat
VK> and they will blame you again for ruining the viewing of such a cool demo;)
Well, how can this be tolerated when the effects in the demo are weak and ugly, and
the animation is rushing out of all the cracks?
That is, it’s not the case when a demo tries to ride on things that have nothing to do with
demo-making (animation, Bill Gates, sex scenes...)
AM> are being spoiled.
Well, I don’t know... I have one effect lying around in my stash here
using chunks and attributes, in short, this has never happened on the Spectrum
yet, although the effect is not very optimized yet
(and is unlikely to ever be).
That’s it. Bye, Aleksey!
[CGE] [ARTVIEW] [THE KNIGHT'S ARENA] [IF GAME]
to be continued ...
NEWART/n-Discovery/SPb * Coder, gfx artist, AY music's fanat
Wednesday June 01 1994 15:13, Vassili Klimov wrote to Aleksey Malov:
VK> in general, this suggests itself, aka a call to coders: don’t
VK> bother with cool algorithms. For what? no one will get into
VK> code. Use more unusual effects, such as colored chunks (not
VK> 8x8), music with digital inserts, multicolors on the border, more
VK> populist slogans (especially those related to alcohol), and if you want
VK> something cool, then render it on an offtopic page and convert it into animation, and
VK> etc. In general, as regrettable as it may be, this will be quite enough
VK> to take 1st place in the next demo compo. And this is not a joke;(
OG> I want it. For example, I never liked multicolor, slogans about alcohol...
You just couldn’t see normal multicolor on your former Delta.
OG> Do you think the audience is all drunks?
No, but apparently people like jokes on this topic.:(
OG> Animation is good, but when in moderation.
If the animation does not fit into the general flow of the demo, i.e. it does not fit in with
effects, graphics, and music, then either the animation needs to be thrown out, either the animation or the effects.
OG> I agree that the Demo should be beautiful, unusual (
OG> in short). is a chunky demo shocking? Even at a high level of coding?
OG> And now a question for the coders:
OG> Is it possible to create a beautiful and spectacular effect with bad code?
It’s possible. A good designer can “make candy out of shit”. and
the prize will be taken by “candy”.
The opposite statement is more obvious. You can make a beautiful and unspectacular
effect with strong code. This is especially evident in effects for which the Spectrum
is not intended (mostly 3D with a bunch of mathematics and
objects).
Bye, Oleg.
maybe you're right, but I didn't see the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the word "stylish" ;). My favorite demos are Insane and HigherState, as well as some of the same comrades in MQM5. I will note that there are no shocking or populist things there
no!
OG> And now a question for the coders:
OG> Is it possible to create a beautiful and spectacular effect with bad code?
It is possible, although it depends on what is meant by bad code. If you mean
unoptimized, then look at the demos of at least the same Phantom Lord.
I was with you .┌─┐┌─┐┬┌ .┌─┐ aka J7n/4D
│┼─┼│ ├┴┐│├┤
└┘┘ └└─┘┴ ┴└└─┘ j...@mail.ru
AM> You can. A good designer can “make candy out of shit.” True,
Here we go! A simple viewer wants spectacle! He doesn't care how everything works inside! Everyone will be judged by their own standards.
AM> then people will understand that they have been wildly deceived, but it will be too late:
AM> the demo will end and the prize place will be taken by the “candy”.
So a good designer is needed.
AM> The opposite statement is more obvious. You can create a beautiful and unspectacular effect with strong code. This is especially evident on
AM> effects for which the Spectrum is not intended (mostly 3D with a bunch of
AM> (by Spectrum standards) mathematics and objects).
And who are you selling that effect to? Demo, this is like a business IMHO. I sold it - well done,
the profit is big - very well done! And if later your product is remembered with a kind word
... Even better!
Sincerely, Oleg. [ZX]
OG> And now a question for the coders:
OG> Is it possible to create a beautiful and spectacular effect with bad code?
What is bad code? You're probably just talking about his absence!? >8)
And you just forgot that the main thing for the viewer is the spectacle, and it doesn’t matter how the guy perverted
it.
With good code, you can easily write a crappy demo. And with good
animation you can also do some shit. The main thing is design, and the emphasis should be on
it, and only then on cool or not cool code!
And if you want to show your coding skills, then there are 4k intros for this.
▌┘│ ■ ▐ ┬─┐▌ ┬──
Sorry, they brought fresh beer... ▌│└─│┌┬┐ ▌ ▌_│▌-┤▌_┬
VK> is possible, although it depends on what is meant by bad code. If you mean
VK> unoptimized, then look at the demos of at least Phantom Lord.
Only a good designer can create a beautiful and spectacular effect on bad (crooked and unoptimized) code (so to speak, make candy out of shit
). But, because I have not seen groups in which there would be both a good designer and a bad coder at the same time on Speccy, then, in principle, this is impossible.
A bad designer can ruin any strong code. I don’t remember such
cases on spec, but on the offtopic there are a dime a dozen of them.
Bye, Vassili.
OG>> unusual (if possible). Shock in short. And now a question for
OG>> coders: Is it possible to create a beautiful and spectacular effect with bad code?
GK> What is bad code? You're probably just talking about his absence!? >8)
Well, remember the Vasik demos... ;)
GK> And you just forgot that the main thing for the viewer is the spectacle, and it doesn’t matter how
GK> the guy perverted about it.
GK> With good code you can easily write a crap demo. And also with
GK> good animation you can also do some crazy stuff. The main thing is design, and
GK> the emphasis
GK> should be placed on it, and only then on cool or not cool code!
So that’s what I’m talking about! Users want entertainment!
GK> And if you want to show your coding skills, then there are
GK> 4k intros.
For me, 4k has no value at all. I have seen too few good works
in this nomination.
Sincerely, Oleg. [ZX]
VK> maybe you're right, but I didn't see here
VK> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the word "stylish" ;). My
Yes, this is also not the last factor.
VK> favorite demos are Insane and HigherState, as well as some of the same comrades
VK> in MQM5. I will note that there are no shocking or populist things there!
When they put me 3 meters from the monitor and showed me the 3D part in Insane, then I
was in severe shock, you could say that my jaw was scraped off the floor with a shovel.
Sincerely, Oleg. [ZX]
OG> For me, 4k has no value at all. I've seen too few good
OG> works in this category.
Here's an indicator that there are practically no cool coders, but there are good demos
there. It turns out that from any “gomin”, with some effort, you can make
candy.