Project PENTAGON-1024 SL

CR> But again, it’s not about the ISA. But the fact is that the speck absolutely does not need it.
CR> If
CR> there are some arguments in the opposite direction, i.e. here is a drop-dead argument
CR> in
CR> in favor of ISA, then we can consider it further. And so just an off-topic debate
CR> began.

CR> Let's talk about the spec after all!

Yes, there seems to be only one argument - due to the fact that the new board should not be
just an old ZX-SPECCY-48kb with a cassette, but at least support more or less
adult peripherals such as VGA/HDD/CDROM/LPT/SERIAL/ETHERNET, then making an
ISA controller would be tempting. On the other hand, now ISA cards are also disappearing quickly and forever. So there remain PCI 32bit, USB, (SDIO?) and in the future
PCIexpress buses, but the complexity of their implementation is orders of magnitude higher - which means you cannot do without
expensive and complex ALTERA/XILINX and others.

Regards.

AM> I wrote that _most_ devices tolerate low exchange rates. But
AM> in
AM> the case with a 10 megabit network card, data from its cache must be retrieved at
AM> a speed of at least 1.25 megabytes per second, and at the same time do not forget
AM> to send a confirmation packet for each received packet, and this is with the most
AM> simple protocols such as IPX/SPX. If you take something more complex like
AM> TCP/IP, then you will get the same amount of overhead for assembling/disassembling
AM> packets and putting them in software buffers/queues.

Yes, there are a ton of controllers for embedded devices that work with HOST processors
like mos6502 1Mhz, look again at contiki and make sure that c-64 is
able to be a web server via ethernet 10Mbit.

Regards.

It won’t be a Spectrum, but God knows what. It’s better to immediately buy a PC and run the emulator.

I think that the Spectrum’s PC peripherals are unnecessary, it should have its own specially designed peripherals (such as GS). But you’ll never be able to use all these fancy bells and whistles, because you won’t write the driver yourself, and the hardware manufacturer won’t care. And for example, a PDA can do just fine without PCI and AGP. And it
uses USB only as a serial interface.

In short, I consider further discussion on this topic absolutely pointless!

With respect!

NedoPC group. Sprinter2k, ATM Turbo2+. http://chunin.infpres.com/

AR> Yes, there are a ton of controllers for embedded devices that work with HOST
AR> processors like mos6502 1Mhz, look again at contiki and make sure the fact that
AR> c-64 is able to be a web server over 10Mbit ethernet.

We were talking about ISA devices, not microcontrollers. It won't be much work to take a thread
cirrhosis with a built-in NIC and connect it to the Spectrum - this is really a much more realistic direction of movement. What a stupid
ISA connection. It’s as if this argument just confirms that the ISA didn’t give a damn about the Spectrum.

With respect.

CR> I believe that the Spectrum PC peripheral is unnecessary, it should have its own
CR> - specially designed peripherals for it (such as GS). And all

I completely agree, with one exception - the USB bus would still be nice to
implement.

Maxagoras. NedoPC group

TM> I completely agree, with one exception - the USB bus would still be nice
TM> to implement.

In general, as I see it, there is no vision in the ranks of spektrumists about what a
modern ZX should be like. It follows from this that ANYTHING - this is the first reason
for the defeat of such projects as Sprinter or PENTAGON-1024 SL.

Regards.

Well, first of all, the subject project is not finished yet. And secondly, I know perfectly well
what a Spectrum should be from the point of view of spektrumists:
- have a frequency of 50 MHz and higher;
- equipped with AGP, PCI, SCSI and others;
- connect to VGA;
- assembled using the usual EC logic (so that it can be modified :-)
- WELL AND THE MOST IMPORTANT MOST IMPORTANT thing is that it COSTS a maximum of 40 rubles (two bottles of beer).

CR> Well, first of all, the subject project is not finished yet. And secondly, I know perfectly well
CR> what a Spectrum should be like from the point of view of spektrumists:
CR> - have a frequency of 50 MHz and higher;
CR> - equipped with AGP, PCI, SCSI and others;
CR> - connect to VGA;
CR> - assembled on the usual EC logic (so that it can be modified :-)
CR> - WHAT’S THE MOST THE MAIN MAIN thing is to cost a maximum of 40 rubles (two bottles of beer).

:) That’s what it turns out to be! By the way, we all know and understand everything perfectly
- but at the same time we prefer to speak out sharply and not constructively (why? This is already clear to everyone).

Regards.

November, 30, 2032 16:06 Andrey Romanenko Wrote to Chunin Roman :

AR> Yes, there seems to be only one argument here - due to the fact that the new board should
AR> be not just an old ZX-SPECCY-48kb with a cassette, but at least support
AR> more or less adult peripherals like VGA/HDD/CDROM/LPT/SERIAL/ETHERNET

we load from the ribbon “tic-tac-toe”, “battleship”, “Rubik’s cube”, drawing game,
we draw a house with the sun and enjoy the rest of our lives.

And Ethernet and other “products for adults” - in the sex shop!

... VIVAT EGOR LETOV!!! 40! 1964-2004...eternity

CR> I know what a Spectrum should be from the point of view of spektrumists: - have
CR> a frequency of 50 MHz and above; - equipped with AGP, PCI, SCSI and others; -
CR> connect to VGA; - assembled on the usual EC logic (so that you can
CR> modify it :-) - WELL AND THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is that it COSTS a maximum of 40 rubles (two
CR> bottles of beer).

Before you become interested in the price, ask these “advanced” comrades
if they want to install a PCI and AGP controller "according to the usual logic",
consisting of 3-5 racks of my height plus an air conditioner for forced air
cooling (or water, with a fan cooling tower on the roof)?

<01:47> Konstanteen Denisov wrоte to Chunin
Roman:

[skip]
CR>> THE MAIN THING IS TO COST a maximum of 40 rubles (two bottles of beer).

KD> Before you get interested price, ask these “advanced”
KD> comrades if they want to install a PCI and AGP controller “on
KD> conventional logic”, consisting of 3-5 racks my height plus an air conditioner for
KD> forced air cooling (or water, with a fan
KD> cooling tower on roof)?

Of course they do! In the 40s you wouldn't want anything like that!!
Besides, winter has already come, let them heat it instead of the stove!

The Protoss fled. The zerg dug in. It's time for me to call it a day. Ivan.

- Divorce the scheme, big and small... [Sprinter] Sprinter-II [Forth-CPU]

... ivan...@mail.ru * http://winglion.spb.ru * http://www.petersplus.ru

CR>> I know perfectly well what the Spectrum should be from the point of view of
CR>> spektrumists: - have a frequency of 50 MHz and above; - equipped with AGP,
CR>> PCI, SCSI and others; - connect to VGA; - assembled using the usual
CR>> EC logic (so that it can be modified :-) - AND THE MOST THING
CR>> THE MAIN THING is that it COSTS a maximum of 40 rubles (two bottles of beer).

Why, I wonder, does a spektrumist need 50 megahertz? After all, any spektrumist can
do everything on 7s. Why AGP? In order for Spec's programs to finally begin to slow down, this is not necessary! And if all this is to be done, then why do it in bulk, because
there are already ready-made chips, and the shit is not expensive. To be honest, I agree to pay
10 dollars for one chip rather than sit and solder the AGP decoupler for months!

KD> Before you get interested in the price, ask these “advanced”
KD> comrades if they want to install a PCI and AGP controller “on
KD> conventional logic”, consisting of 3-5 racks in my height plus air conditioning for
KD> forced air cooling (or water, with a fan
KD> cooling tower on the roof)?

Regarding “advancement”, you should not judge others only by yourself! I
think that you are unlikely to answer what PCI is and how exactly “it” differs from
ISA, and even more so, do not tell us what signals are on these buses, andwhy
they are exactly like that. Almost every spektrumist knows exactly how his
programs work and understands which beats are dancing on the tires, and why exactly they are like that.
For example: you in PiCy have such a wise invention as the Keyboard, I think
that you know, when you press more than three keys, the rest are blocked.
Something similar is in Speccy, can you tell the reason for this glitch? And the Spectrum specialist, having never seen your ingenious invention, will accurately name the problem
and will also add that in the latest Speccy modules this has long been removed. Spectrumists are
really not advanced, they just know well what they work on.

By Rob F. / Entire Group ...

Eh, I wish I could make a ZX that would be small in size (about the size of a game console, like
dandy, I don’t need games, my apartment is very small ;>), with a screw (in
the box), connectors on the top NemoBus, on the side - video, tape, ay (for headphones),
fdd, PS/2 mouse and that’s it!
AF> why do it in bulk, because there are already ready-made chips, and shit isn’t expensive.
not crap, but the main thing ;>
I would agree to a zx with a chipset ;>
AF> To be honest, I agree to pay 10 dollars for one chip rather than sit
AF> and solder the AGP decoupler for months!
;>>>>>
They can’t screw it (the AGP unit) to the first stump!

AF> Regarding "advancedness", you should not judge those around you only by yourself! I
AF> think that you are unlikely to answer what PCI is and what exactly “it” is
AF>differs from ISA, and especially don’t tell us about what signals are on
Well, there are a lot of people here who know ;>

AF> removed. Spectrumists are really not advanced, they just know well
AF> what they work on.
That will be even more accurate.

Bye!
comming soon: Amusement Park 2k4 <===70%-->
[ZX Realist] [ZX-Nastolgy] [Profi +] [SashaSoft]

AF> Why, I wonder, does a spektrumist need 50 megahertz?

To make it work faster.

AF> After all, any spektrumist can do everything on 7.

Alas, not all...
Hmm, should I catch you at your word? Do you belong to the concept of “any
spectrumist”? So I’ll suggest doing something like this, but at 7
MHz... :-)

AF> Why AGP? So that Spekov's
AF> programs would finally start to slow down, this is not necessary!

Why would the programs slow down if there is an AGP?
However, I agree here - AGP is not needed at all, especially if the frequency is left at
7 MHz :), and at 50 MHz it is not needed either.

AF> And if all this is to be done, then
AF> why do it in bulk, because there is ready-made chips, and the shit isn’t expensive. If
AF> honestly, then I agree to give 10 dollars for one chip rather than sit and solder
AF> the AGP decoupling for months!

Let's remember this statement.

( )
AF> Regarding “advancement”, you should not judge others only by yourself! I
AF> think that you are unlikely to answer what PCI is and how exactly “it” differs
AF> from ISA, and even less tell us what signals are on these buses, and
AF> why they are exactly like that.

Well, the one you asked will answer this statement.
I will note that if I need to know the specification for ISA or PCI, then I
will simply go and readthis specification. In the meantime, I don’t need it - I don’t even want to know.
Why fill your head with unnecessary information?

AF> Almost every spektrumist knows exactly how his programs work and
AF> understands what kind of beats are dancing on the tires, and why exactly they are like that.

Don't forget to add that the program was written and debugged for a long
time, because assembler is not conducive to quickly writing complex programs.

Ha! Let's take any program in BASIC.
Can you tell us which beats will dance on the tires and why?

AF> For example: in PiCi you have such a wise invention as
AF> Keyboard, I think you know that when you press more than three keys,
AF> the rest are blocked.

Hmm, I just pressed 3 keys - the rest were not blocked...
I guess my keyboard is wrong! :)

AF> There is something similar in Speccy, can you
AF> tell us the reason for this glitch?

I can.

( )
AF> Spectrumists are really not
AF> advanced, they just know well what they work on.

Somewhat wrong.
Spectrumists know well what they work on only for one simple
reason: what they work on is quite simple.
Well, sometimes you can name a second reason: because they themselves soldered what
what they work on.
And when the working tool becomes more complicated, it is no longer possible to understand it well.
Let’s take itSprinter. Who, excluding the developers, can say that they know well how it ticks there?

Or here’s another thing: we remembered one statement there. Now the question is:
you now know very well what you are working on. Now we install the chip for 10
green rubles and get AGP.
Can you now confidently tell how your machine works?
But by soldering AGP on small circuits for a month, you would learn how it
everything works!
So, are chips with a lot of integration harmful for Spectrumists? :-)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

The Peters and I started negotiations about your brainchild.

Therefore, several questions for you:

1) Can we expect assistance from you, in particular on the pressing issue
"firmware template"?

2) Can we expect consultations from you on any issues?

3) Is the soap you mentioned below valid, or is it "spamholder"?

IM> ... ivan...@mail.ru * http://winglion.spb.ru *
IM> http://www.petersplus.ru

Thanks in advance!

C Respect!

From the point of view of the wrong spektrumists.

AF> Why, I wonder, does a spektrumist need 50 megahertz? After all, any spektrumist
AF> can do everything on 7s. Why AGP? So that Speck's
AF> programs would finally start to slow down, this is not necessary! And if we do all this, then

The Spectrum already has a bus-system processor Z80, and we don’t
need another, I won’t engage in unscientific experiments on attaching PCI, AGP
and ISA to Sinclair out of principle.

PCI and AGP are too complicated and pointless, plus That's why I have hatred for them
from their birth.

ISA is a good thing, but not for the Spectrum.

If some inventor comes up with such a thing, then it’s not a Spectrum anymore, but a
test bench for PCI devices on the Z80.

AF> why in bulk, because there are already ready-made chips, and the shit isn’t expensive.
AF> To be honest, I agree to pay 10 dollars for one chip rather than
AF> sit and solder the AGP decoupling for months!

December 20, 2004 17:59, Alexander Sharihin -> Alex Fill:

AS> I would agree to a zx with a chipset ;>

It's called an Amiga, buddy. This is of course "zx",
but all your favorite toys and demos were taken from here,
the form factor and frequency will also suit you. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AF>> spektrumist everything
AS> Personally, my father and I always argue about the question of how many megahertz zx needs;>
AS> I say 3.48, and he is 348, at least
Well, of course, 348 would not be bad, it’s just overkill. I think that 20 would be perfect for him. At 7 megahertz I can no longer imagine what to put into the interruption, what kind of crap to put in to block the int. But to be honest, there is a classic, and it is wonderful, because the characteristics of the computer do not
change. and the brain is improving, it’s better than the other way around... =)

AS> Eh, I wish I could make a ZX that would be small in size (with a game
AS> console, like dandy, I don’t need games, my apartment is very small
;>>), with a screw (in
AS> the box), connectors - on top of the NemoBus, on the side - video, tape, ay (for
AS> headphones), fdd, PS/2 mouse and that’s it!
Your dream has come true, I have a Speccy of this size at home, more precisely at
work, - my project Wild Speccy ...

AM> Somewhat wrong.
AM> Spectrumists know well what they work on for only one
AM> simple reason: what they work on is quite simple. Well,
AM> you can sometimes name a second reason: because they themselves soldered what
AM> they work on. And when the working tool becomes more complex, it will no longer be possible to understand
AM> it well. Let's take the Sprinter. Who, excluding
AM> developers, can say that they know well how it ticks there?
I can’t discuss Sprinter, I haven’t used it at all. But I can talk about the Amiga, I can talk about Atari or MSX. Yes, I can talk about PiCi too. Over the course of my entire life, I personally made “software” for slot machines in the Kyiv casinos on PiTsishki, they flashed it directly into the BIOS,
so there I studied everything as it should be. I remember that we made the first one in 1999, and after three months we delivered it to customers. Then we played roulette in Donetsk at the Third Rome casino, and there were no problems either. We did all this on the first stumps, there was simply no need for more. Of course, everything worked in ONE-FRAME. This is all thanks to the name Speccy, he taught me, in any case, at any speed of the computer, to make the program as compact and as fast as possible. Of course, I understand that this sounds like a fairy tale, because all sorts of HALV-WAFFLES run around on PiCi, and it seems to people that the limit of their imagination is, but such is the world wherethere are Speccy
programmers and others.

AM> Or here’s another thing: we remembered one statement there. Now the question:
AM> now you know very well what you are working on. Now we install the chip for
AM> 10 green rubles and we get AGP. Can you now confidently
AM> tell how your machine works? But by unsoldering the AGP on small circuits for a month, you would learn how it all works! So, are chips with large integration harmful for
AM> spektrumists? :-)
I think that I would study the AGP, but it is superfluous in SPECKY. I can't imagine its meaning. Say that it would transfer something to the video buffer without you, so
while you program it, it’s better to transfer all the information yourself using SP. This problem was solved a long time ago on the Amiga, they simply made a BLIDTER, and that was enough. In any case, Ammi has an Agnus-75, which was stupidly torn to pieces on PiCi, and they cut it off and signed it as Intel. As a result, they spoiled it by adding a text
mode, and even subsequent versions are not compatible with the previous ones, since then PiCi
began to suffer from such nonsense as drivers. On the Amiga, the new ECS was compatible with its predecessor, then the AGA with ECS, and everything worked like clockwork. It’s a pity that Intel
bought out all the factories where Ammi was produced, so the creators
of a great creation went bankrupt, which no PiCi could compete with... Heh...

KD> From the point of view of the wrong spektrumists.
I agree to take a real branded Specky for 300 rubles and drink two
bottles of beer!!! I wrote the figure 300 rubles from a fanar, so that the date would be more than 40!!! =)

AF>> Finally, Spec’s programs have started to slow down, this is not necessary! And
AF>> if all this is to be done, then
KD> Spectrum already has a bus-system processor Z80, and we don’t need another
KD>, I won’t engage in anti-scientific experiments on attaching PCI, AGP
KD> and ISA to Sinclair out of principle.
This exactly! And in general, what can you insert into PITSYuAY, sound or something? And then
the poor Z80 will sit and the ports will rustle like crazy for two channels
digitization. HORROR !!! On the wings of PENTIUM!!! By the way, modern sound systems
which are integrated on PiCi work like this, but in the capacity of a rustling maniac
STUMP takes part. But before I still couldn’t understand why the computer glitches so much when you read a floppy disk... It’s true that our Speccy has this too,
but we were born in ’79, and these were born in 2004... Our Speccy doesn’t need such a fate!!!

KD> PCI and AGP are too complicated and pointless, plus I have they
KD> hatred from their birth.
Well, you shouldn’t hate them so much, PiTishniks also need to justify their
capital-moisture... =)

KD> If somethe inventor comes up with this, then it’s not a Spectrum, but a
KD> test bench for PCI devices on the Z80.
It’s beautiful in our Spectrum way...

AF>> a chip rather than sitting and soldering the AGP decoupling for months!

AF> Your dream has come true, I have this size at home, more precisely at
AF> work Speccy, -
AF> my project Wild Speccy ...

And so! It would be a good idea to send photos to the e-mail address: getfile200 (dogs)
yahoo.com

And for those who want to watch them, let’s say use this address to post
something on On the Internet you can do this by going to the URL: http://mail.yahoo.com

login: getfile200
password: password

now there are images posted there with MSX-2 toys, software and demos including by
RST7; well, codebusters lyra-2.

Regards.

When it will not only be at your work ;>>>>>
By the way, I am making protection in PINIX programs from running on a PC, there will be
advertising at the end of the text, like you advertise?

Bye!
not comming soon: Amusement Park 2k4 <===70%-->
comming soon: PINIX CP/M 2.2.1 <===90%-->

AF> I think that now, provided that I didn’t repair my real spec already
AF> 7 years old, surprisingly it works fine, I’ll tell you what and how it dances on the
AF> bus of my Speccy.

Ok. Take the program
10 BEEP 30, 50
20 PAUSE 100
30 GOTO 10
Weakly describe the state of the entire bus during the execution of this program? :)

AF> I can tell you exactly what this mysterious stripe
AF> is on the right when switching from graphics to the border, and why it flickers.

Are you talking about the delay in the operation of the dot register?

AF> And I perfectly remember how the VASIKA interrupt works, that is, RST 56.

Actually, when programming in ASMA it is customary use
hexadecimal calculus.
Even more - the official name of the interrupt is RST #38 or RST 0x38 :)

( )
AF> play on PiCi in Mortal Kombat. Such glitches have always infuriated me, when
AF> you press and in place of this it’s a big deal. That's why I loved mortal on
AF> Amiga, because on all types of Amiga it worked the same and always with one
AF> interruption, well, the keys were not baptized...

PC was developed as a computer for work, not for games. So the problem
pressing more than 3 keys is a problem exclusively for gamers.

( )
AF> Over the course of my entire life, I personally
AF> made “software” for slot machines in the Kyiv casinos on PiTsishki, they flashed
AF> directly into the BIOS, so there I also studied everything as it should be. I remember that
AF> we made the first one in 1999, and within three months we delivered
AF> to customers. Then we played roulette in Donetsk at the Third Rome casino, the same
AF> there were no problems. We did all this on the first stumps, there was simply no need for more
AF>.

What did the “wrong” PC use instead of putting Speck and
all? It would be cheaper! If there was a need to display a picture - when
using Speck, any TV would do, instead of a monica.
And if there was no need to display the graphics, but only “blink the lights”, then
a microcontroller would have been enough.
And you followed the rules of “our world” - put a whole PC there.
And this is called “a real spektrumist”? :)

AF> Of course, everything worked in ONE-FRAME. This is all thanks to the name Speccy,
AF> he taught me, in any case, at any speed of the computer, to make a program
AF> as compact and as fast as possible.

As a training ground for instilling skills in writing fast and compact code
- Speccy has no price. Speck also teaches well how to understand what you
do and how it all works.
But what it doesn’t teach isthe fact that with increasing complexity (hardware,
programs), you need to choose a tool according to the task and delve into everything
(software/hardware) to the level necessary for the work.
I.e. It’s impossible to go higher (not fully understand what and how), there’s no point in going deeper (to understand
everything at all), and you’ll waste time.

You yourself assure that you know how to change the bits on the tires. Why didn't you go further? Aren't you interested in how the beats inside the Z80 change? There are
a lot of them...
What if there are errors and you don’t know anything about them? :)

AF> I, of course, understand that this
AF> sounds like a fairy tale, because all sorts of HALV-WAFFLES are running around on PiCi, and people think
AF> that the limit of their imagination is, but such is the world where there are Speccy programmers and
AF> others.

Wake up, Neo! The Matrix fucked you! :)
The world has changed a long time ago. It was just Speckie programmers who went into the concept of
"the rest".
Of course, a huge number of Russian programmers started with Speckie and
still remember such a wonderful computer, but this is already a past stage.

( )
AF> I think that I would study the AGPshka, only it is superfluous in SPECKY. I don't
AF> imagine its meaning. Say that without you it would transfer something to the
AF> video buffer, so while you program it, it’s better to transfer all the information yourself with the SP
AF>.

So naturally, the AGP is designed for faster stones.

AF>This problem was solved a long time ago on the Amiga, they just made a BLIDTER,
AF> and that was enough.

It was enough until a certain point, and then everyone went to the PC, right?

AF> In any case, Ammi has an Agnus-75, which
AF> was stupidly torn to pieces on PiCi, and they cut it off and signed it as Intel.

Can you prove it?

AF> In the end they spoiled it by adding a text mode, and even subsequent versions
AF> are not
AF> compatible with the previous ones,

I don’t know who tore what from where, but the text mode is a very,
very useful thing.

AF> since then PiCi began to suffer from such nonsense as drivers.

It only seems so to you.

AF> On the Amiga, the new ECS was compatible with its predecessor, then
AF> AGA with ECS, and everything worked like clockwork.
AF> It’s a pity that Intel bought out all the factories that produced Ammi,

Here’s proof that drivers are not nonsense.
If only a bunch of companies would produce Ami glands, well, let them be for every piece of hardware if only they had their own driver, all the factories would have been bought out.
And in the end - hardware develops, new, better ones appear.
How can you “explain” to the OS that this piece of hardware can do much more than the previous one?
Through the driver, this can be solved easily and simply.

AF> this is how the creators of a great creation went bankrupt, which
AF> no PiCi could compete with... Heh...

Three times ha! IfIf the PC could not compete with the Amiga, then _where_ did
Intel get so much money that they were able to buy out all the factories?
If the Amiga was so much cooler than the PC, then why did it go bankrupt?

However, I did not play in this religious war “PC vs. Amiga” and I am not going
to play :)

Total good,
Aleksandr.

December 21, 2004 (and it was 02:30 then)
Aleksandr Majorov wrote in his letter to Alex Fill:

AM> So, are chips with large integration harmful for Spectrumists? :-)

A very credible statement. S bol'shojj integraciej ne prizhilos'
absolutno nichego. SPECTRUM DOLZHEN BYT' PREDEL'NO PROST. Ehto
aksioma.

KF> A very credible statement.

KF> S bol'shojj integraciej ne prizhilos' absolutno nichego.

Not true, there are at least 3 chips with great integration.

KF> SPECTRUM DOLZHEN BYT' PREDEL'NO PROST. Ehto
KF> aksioma.

Gee, then there is a proposal to make the _ENTIRE_ Speck on the 155LA3.
The most important thing is to make the Z80, VG93 and music coprocessor on small circuits!
:)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

AM> Gee, then there is a proposal to make the _ENTIRE_ Speck on 155LA3.
AM> The most important thing is to make the Z80, VG93 and music coprocessor on
AM> small circuits!
AM> :)

Very stupid and inappropriate sarcasm! The person says that the Speckie should
remain “no worse” than it was before with all these upgrades. Z80 and VG - no
question; they are in the same dip packages as LA3, which means they won’t add any complexity to assembly and
adjustment.

I think, in principle, you can use the chips in modern packages TOO! (even cases like those of chipsets like i815 or the latest video cards); However, with one
condition - that they could be easily bought already sealed onto a small scarf on the other side of which all the contacts of the chip were pinned out. Then, on the main board, make wiring for these pins in order to greatly simplify installation and
repair. I have seen such adapters more than once, for example, I have a Kingston
386sx NOW module - a small board with a special chipset and amd386sx which is inserted
instead of an i286 processor and turns any two into a three. Well, the second problem
of using these new embedded microcontrollers in ZX is of course their price.
Apparently no one will be able to make a ZX board at least at the same price as the NEW
MODERN ASUS BOARD for PEC. :(

Regards.

AF>> began to recognize with a millisecond delay, soon he didn’t know at all.
AM> Erroneous judgment. If a programmer needs to know about the fact of the
AM> interruption, he will find out about it. If we are talking about the fact that Windows does not let you know about the
AM> interrupt too quickly, then I will note: Windows is _not_ a real
AM> OS. And also PC does not mean Windows and only Windows.
Again I hear notes reminiscent of the sound “what for”... For that matter, then
then the patient who can be cured of an incurable disease
be informed about this after his death. Well, I need to know that the interruption once existed, I need to know that it exists now. And I don’t need an OS, just like any
programmer, he uses the OS when he wants to load something, and after all
this it’s time to execute what was downloaded. Apparently the creators of Windows said the same thing, but why should they be allowed to run their task, it would be better to wait. This is how jokes are born - “The inscription on the screen is 99% completed, it pleases
only the first two hours” ...

AM> For example, I am not chasing speed, but simply making programs on
AM> PC. And they don't slow down. And I’m not the only one who exists. It turns out that
AM> your statement “...all PiTsishniks...” does not correspond at all
Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend, maybe your programs are notslow down, I didn’t see it, but
I already explained that I don’t use the concept here - maximalism. But I think that
your software product has hardly been tested on all types of PiCi, for speckies
it is simpler that there are standards, but PiCi has not had them for a long time...
AM> the truth. And the second part "...spectrumists just make programs...".
AM> What programs? Somehow they are almost invisible, these programs. :(
Yes, here I agree, there are not enough programs, but there are! And pay attention spec
was buried 10 years ago, but there are still some. But the main thing is not in
quantity, but in quality. If you look at the current work on PiCi, then
a few people make a high-quality product, and as a rule, those who do
worth it are either former Spectrumists, or Amizhniks. Everything original was
created here and not on PiCi. On PiCi they were only translated from other platforms. And
Window was made in the Amiga back in 1986, and they made it just for fun, and
some “uncle” came and made a multitasking, but insanely slow system from a really multitasking system.

AM> Oh art... Well, well. But while someone is progressing in
AM> art, at this time there are fewer and fewer fans of Speck.you will be a “real spektrumist”, because you won’t
AM> be able
AM> to find out what kind of beats are dancing on the tires. :)
I think this is completely squeezed out of my finger. And I didn’t say that a real spektrumist is characterized only by knowledge of it.

AM> Don’t flatter yourself.
By no means, I’m not a great spektrumist, I’m just a spektrumist, and I still have a lot to learn. I hope that I will not turn into a person like you, who begins to say in response to such things: “Why bother teaching this.” This, by the way, is very
similar to the American way of thinking, they teach the same thing only by what they will
earn money, but as soon as the gas is turned off in their house, a new
world war will begin...

AM> Well, tell me what is the difference between “bothering everyone’s head” and “they just know”.
For many, the one who bothers himself is busy with something other than his own business, and the one
who simply knows cannot even think about it. that they know not for their own sake. The point
is that he acts like a person, that is, he develops in all respects, without
seeking benefits.

AM> A completely incorrect comparison. I know that atoms exist, I
AM> know
AM> that ISA and PCI buses exist. I know what all this is for. But I
AM> _not_ going to study atomic physics,
AM> quantum mechanics without the need. I’m also not going to _unnecessarily_ study
AM> ISA andPCI buses.
Knowledge of atoms does not mean knowledge of atomic physics, although I also have not studied it,
but it seems to be called nuclear physics, but it doesn’t matter, let it be atomic.
However, it is very dangerous when a person does not want to learn anything at all except
what he is forced to learn. Art is, at a minimum, development, and you don’t need
to learn something hard for this, you just need to want it. Spectrumists, unlike
PiTsyushnikov, want to do.

AM> You say the difference is negligible... Nu-nu.
AM> Well then, in new motherboards, manufacturers don’t install an ISA bus, but
AM> only PCI, since the difference is negligible?
Do you really think that they stopped installing ISA only because
superiority in capabilities? There are only two reasons, and after talking with any
electronics engineer - Mikrushnik who was involved in the development of PiCi devices
you will understand this very simply. Reznitsa first, there is a standard that at least 3 microseconds must pass between each
OUT. This is in ISA, in PCI this time is reduced to 40 nanoseconds. And the second difference is compactness. Everything else is almost identical. Of course, there are still some improvements in PCI, but these, as I
already said, are minuscule.
AM> And for industrial computers that require an ISA bus, they install
AM> an additional controller, instead of using
AM> the existing
AM> PCI bus controller. Strangewhat kind of computer manufacturers are these? And not
AM> know that the difference between ISA and PCI is negligible...
Industrial computers do NOT require an ISA bus, they need to make a
interference-proof PC. And no matter how many times we assembled systems at factories, I never encountered such strange requirements. If our electronics engineers made
communication through ISA, then they took industrial PI for ISA, otherwise
with PCI.

08 January 2005 02:25, Alex Fill -> Aleksandr Majorov:

AM>> performance. Well, for example, we want to play MP3 on Speck -
AM>> 7 MHz is not enough.
AF> That’s right, it’s not enough, so the spektrumist will create the “3RM” format and
AF> then that’s enough...

Algorithm for playing streaming audio on a classic Spectrum and
with a resolution identical to the original in the studio. The farting-creaking
white noise with 100% CPU load is already boring. It’s good that
there are still coders who can solve any problem by simply changing
the file format!

AF> This is what the world of PiCi is built on, everyone there says, why the hell is it
AF> necessary, now the world is filled with Windows, and the author said, why the hell should they
AF> be done efficiently, this is the problem of the users. Now the owners of PiCi
AF> have a choice between Windows and what works under Windows, that is, they have no choice
AF>. What can I say, I sympathize...

While on the Spectrum you can choose between TR-DOS, CP/M,
IS-DOS, MacroModem, PinkFloyd, etc, etc.. You rarely see such a rainbow of operating systems
anywhere.

AF> When a person says all this is not related to maximalism, I
AF> spoke about the majority, but in comparison with PiCi it will be sooo much.
AF> At least every spektrumist knows that the program he
AF> holds in his hands on the Speckie it will work WITHOUT braking, but far
AF> not every PiTsyushnik can say the same about his “golden” side
AF> ...

And on the Spectrum there are simply no braking programs! Single-frame MOA
Service Monitor, Copy-Copy, DCU, even Basic and that single-frame one.
When I watch how a window is drawn in 128 mode or launch
another software from 48 Basic (to play with AY) I feel
a legitimate sense of pride. Where are M$ or Borland with their stupid compilers. If PayCash wrote their applications on the z80 asm,
users would feel much safer.
And so, they even have ATMs, and they don’t always give out money. Ugh!

AF> Yes, it can be done, but this does not mean that anything will change.
AF> Yes, I do something similar myself. That is why for YOU the highest
AF> art is a DBMS, and for me Coding.

You are right. All these DBMSs are bullshit. I have never experienced such an orgasm anywhere before as I did every time I calculated addresses in the ZX video memory. As a professional to amateurs: Are Spectrumists still
trying to write a single-frame full-screen rotator? This is
pure art, can you imagine: a picture
256x192 scanned on a PC rotates SMOOTHLY clockwise. And this is 48Kb 3.5MHz
Speccy!

AF> This is itand there is a big difference between a programmer and a Coder.
AF> A programmer writes a program, and a Coder will at least write it!

See the task above. I believe that she is tough for you! Don't disgrace
the platform, prove to the pissy lamers what the art of
Coding is. Some crap MAS wouldn't even
take on this!

AF> I'm finally starting to understand... Libraries are already starting
AF> to make me twitch. Then libraries? Click the window for this
AF> do you need a library? Apparently PiCi has completely penetrated the “brains” of their
AF> owners. Honestly, it's funny too. For as long as I can remember, I have never
AF> written a library for drawing a window, especially since they are always different from task to
AF> task, although if I talk to a person who
AF> lives in libraries, then most likely he is not interested in the fact that
AF> the software product will be like a twin to someone else, for example
AF> Windows.

Of course, every procedure need to be generated and scattered across
memory. We know perfectly well what we have and where it is in our memory.
Unlike.

AF> Ours, we are peaceful people and do not set conditions, welcome...

What are the conditions? Let's tear the mastdayers to shreds without any conditions!

AF> I live in a world where there really is no PiCi, there is IBM, and there is no
AF>nothing
AF> bad, until people come running to it who, when creating
AF> a product, do not try to attach the concept “what for” to it. My PiCi and
AF> really have Windows, but my brother’s wife needs it, and my brother, who
AF> wants to play football. I use it in very extreme cases, but
AF> in 99.9999999(99) percent of cases it just takes up space on my
AF> screw.

Is IBM still doing Intel stuff? That's why all of their
G5 advertising seems suspicious to me. Now I understand: this is heavily
veiled x86 times people come running. Well, screw them then. Thanks
for the information. The z80 and I will somehow get along. If you take all the unsold Nemo KAY, it will also be a supercomputer. It’s just
no one has taken it on yet.

AF> Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend, maybe your programs don’t slow down, I haven’t
AF> seen, but I already explained that I don’t use the concept here -
AF> maximalism.
AF> But I think that your software product has hardly been tested on
AF> all types of PiCi, for speckies it’s easier here there are standards, They're already gone
AF> for a long time...

And it's true. I'm now typing 'standards' into Yandex and I see 16 million
links dedicated only to port #7ffd.

AF> Less does not mean that there is none at all. But whatever one may say, they still exist.

For nowFill writes programs that won't go to waste!

AF> For many people, the one who bothers himself is busy with something other than his
AF>, and the one who simply knows cannot even think about the fact that
AF> they know something other than their own. The point is that he acts like a person, that is,
AF> he develops in all respects, without looking for benefits.

This is very important: not to look for benefits. If I were the same Nemo
, I would have given away payments for free, but he still wanted money for them.
Instead of developing in all respects for the joy
of himself and people.

AF> Spectrumists, unlike PiTsyushnikov, want to do.

Generally undeniable. Besides Fill, Alone Coder also does something.
Where are the rest? Apparently they want it, we just haven’t seen the result yet. But when they do, you'll be pumped!

AF> Industrial computers do NOT require an ISA bus, they need to make
AF> a noise-resistant PiTishka.

It is very important that there are no drafts. We swam - we know.

AF> Any programming language was created out of laziness, so as not to
AF> create a bunch of CALLs, they were written into some kind of command. But
AF> the modern world began to carve graphics on the screen
AF> on the screen with willows and rafts, in my opinion this is blasphemy. That's why interruptions disappear
AF> ...

And it's just terrible! If previously there was one interruption per
day, now theyThey just started disappearing in batches. Yesterday I spent the entire evening
looking for 2 missing interruptions. It turned out the cats took it to play.

AF> Let's take it... Just two years ago we were in Donetsk at the
AF> casino
AF> "Third Rome" we gave away the money accounting system to the casino, where the main
AF> task was protection. It’s all very simple, guys in masks come and say

[skip] 8-(

AF> Fortran was created to work with space projects, I know that for sure
AF>
AF> But practice shows that everything that flew on Fortran and

January 11, 2005 21:41, Aleksandr Majorov -> Alex Fill:

AM> Can you prove it?
AM> By the way, “what flew” is only a small part. There the computers installed
AM> were minimal. And the main calculations were carried out on the ground, on large
AM> machines.

No computers. Everything that has flown and flies, for example, small missiles MB with nuclear weapons
in which I received a specialty - mechanics, the simplest logical
devices. All computers are here on earth. They are used in
the process of designing a model and calculating empirical coefficients
when converting the values ​​worked out on the model into the “Big” rocket.
Pre-flight preparation, testing of all systems, etc. - in general
the work of specially created stands that have nothing
in common with computers except electricity. Flight control is possible only at
predetermined and calculated points of the trajectory and
is carried out by issuing targeted radio commands to sensors
that control the hydraulic boosters or the detonation
of squibs. In the latter case, this is a one-time change
of the trajectory. Of course, the fact that the Americans are crawling on Mars
is another story. Rocket technology control -
electromechanics, gyroscopes, sensors observing
physical effects during flight. Flight "program"-
at what second of flight do you need to detonate which squib,
roughly speaking, and for this you don’t need computers.

AM> But I have completely different information - during the development of Buran,
AM> a special nuclear computer was developed, on which everyone wrote.

That’s right. We are talking about service software. Even the slightest change
of the trajectory requires taking into account a mass of factors, empirically obtained
data, values ​​introducing errors (the simplest example is the gravitational “constant”) and is possible only in certain
areas or nodal points. To make it clear: when we
fly over the Gulf Stream, we will make a turn by x in roll,
y in pitch and z in yaw. What I just wrote, as
you see, does not contain information about where to fly - to America,
or to China. To calculate goals, you need software, very complex
and written in Java, often specially created for
the task.

p.S. MAS, forget it. There is such a storehouse of knowledge there that I just get lost and
feel like a little boy in a sandbox.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

I am answering your letter of 01/08/2005, then I wrote Alex Fill
to Aleksandr Majorov, and then it was 2:25:14.

( )
AF> is more powerful than FORIKOV and VASIKOV. However, in the former USSR eer =) what flew
AF> there, as a rule, flew on ASMA. I myself was amazed by this, but this is a fact,
AF> I was personally in Kyiv at the institute where the most natural
AF> computer with its own processor for running the “buran” was being developed, and I personally spoke
AF> with the creators, not only are they patriots and did not sell this
AF> miracle to the Americans, they also did not want to hear about high-level languages. The only
AF> where he participated was in the development of some projects that played
AF> an exclusively secondary role.

“Congratulations, citizen who lied” (c).
Let’s do this: I’ll write something now (or rather, copy it), and in response
you will write an essay on the topic “Aren’t I ashamed to lie on topics that are
elementarily verified.” :-)

Today I was deliberately not too lazy and did a little search in Yandex.
So the first search for “Buran+creation+language+programming” among the results found
I found the word “SIPROL” tied to the context of Buran (doesn’t mean anything to you?)

The second search for “Buran+Siprol”.
I quote with abbreviations, although there is only 12K text...

http://zeus.sai.msu.ru:7000/programming/prg96/85.shtml
=========================================================================== "Integrated approach to the development of large real-time software control systems"
V. Kryukov, A. Petrenko, Institute of Applied Mathematics named after. M.V.Keldysh RAS

This report is devoted to a review of the main results of research and development of software development support tools for large real-time control systems, in which the Institute of Applied Mathematics (IPM) named after. M.V.Keldysh RAS in

collaboration with other scientific centers over the past 14 years.
This work began with the project Automation System for Development of Software (SAPO) PROLOGUE for the spacecraft "Buran".
......
When creating the software for the reusable space system (ISS)
"BURAN"
the developers encountered the usual difficulties of developing and debugging
software, however, multiplied by a large volume and a large number
of developers
a variety of systems and algorithms, these difficulties have become particularly acute.
The largest number of errors when creating software occurs:

- at the interface between the algorithmist and the programmer, when they have different understandings
of the algorithm written on paper;
- when encoding information parcels from a computer to equipment;
- when organizing the interaction of various algorithms with each other.

To eliminate the first source of errors for the development of the ISS "BURAN" software, a high-level problem-oriented language was created to describe the algorithms
control of onboard systems PROL2. Using PROLOG, algorithmists and developers of on-board systems described algorithms, entered them into a computer, and then, using a programming automation system, automatically received executable programs for controlling on-board systems.
============================================================================================ Aren't you ashamed yet? Then we continue:

=============================================================================
.....
Errors in the interaction of various algorithms with each other were eliminated when debugging the algorithms on an instrumental computer and on a complex modeling
stand, where standard control algorithms executed on a standard computer
interacted in a closed circuit with mathematical models of movement
and on-board systems.implemented on a universal computer.
Thus, the integrated complex for the development of software systems
allowed:

- to describe and enter into the computer algorithms for control and testing processes
in a form convenient and understandable to developers of on-board systems;
- describe algorithms for mathematical models of these on-board systems;
- debug autonomously and comprehensively the interaction of algorithms in a closed circuit
;
- receive boot modules for a specialized control computer;
- debug a full complex of software loaded
into a specialized computer and interacting with mathematical models
of on-board systems operating in a universal computer.

.......
Thanks to the use of an integrated complex in the development of software for the ISS "BURAN", over the course of 4 years, software for controlling
systems of the ISS "BURAN" and the necessary infrastructure was created and tested volume of over a million
operators.

As part of the second stage of work, the CIPROL language was developed, which is a simplified version of the PROL2 language, and an integrated system for the design and
development of CIPROL programs [1].

During this work, the following problems were solved:
- the problem of developing a language and user interface that would allow
to more actively participate in the design process of control systems
specialists in the field of equipment and technologists;
- the problem of accelerating the technological microcycle of development, consisting
of editing and debugging, in the style of "Turbo-systems";
- the problem of integrating various tools that support design,
coding, debugging and testing of control systems.

All of the above problems have been solved. The implemented CIPROL system was
developed for IBM-compatible platforms as an instrumental computer. To expand
the range of
target computers, the code generator made it possible to obtain executable code in the form of C-programs.

This made it possible to transfer the developed control systems to almost all
modern computers.
.......

References

Krukov V.A., Petrenko A.K., Trunov Yu.V., Fedorov K.B.
GRAPHIT-graphic in integrated environment for real-time system development.-
Abstracts of int. conference "Real-Time Data - RTD-94", Dubna, June 1994.

Kryukov V.A., Maksimov A.V., Petrenko A.K., Polilova T.A.
Hierarchical configuration management. - Programming, 2,1994.

The RAISE Language Group. The RAISE Specification Language.- Prentice Hall,
1992.
===========================================================================

Well, look at what they are doing, not only have they developed a special Javascript language, they have also made a compiler for it in C. And another version for PCdone...

PS: You don’t have to write the answer, because everything is already clear...

All the best,
Aleksandr.

AM> PS: you don’t have to write an answer, because everything is already clear...

Here is a comment from the outside: space in the USSR, as is known, was “not a public
project but a handicraft at the state level” (from) HEMO letters. There were
many projects there - I personally know a person who participated in the development of a program on
ASM under i8080 on which some kind of water tanker (?) was made for this same project "BURAN". To do this, they worked together with Leningrad
institutes! We worked in Kyiv. Conclusion: there could be anything in there.

Regards.

ES> That's right. We are talking about service software. Even the slightest change
ES> trajectory requires taking into account a lot of factors, empirically obtained
ES> data, values ​​introducing errors (the simplest example is the
ES> gravitational “constant”) and is possible only in certain
ES> areas or nodal points. To make it clear: when will we be
( )
ES> or to China. To calculate targets, you need software, very complex
ES> and written in Java, often on specially created
ES> tasks.

Could have explained it more clearly:
As I read, when landing the Buran, at some point everyone on the ground went crazy. Because instead of flying as it was flying and landing, the device
made an unexpected turn and flew a little differently.
When we looked into it, it turned out that the on-board computer carried out an analysis and absolutely
correctly performed unforeseen landing maneuvers.

ES> p.S. MAS, forget it. There is such a storehouse of knowledge there that I just get lost and
ES> I feel like a little boy in a sandbox.

So why not have some fun? :)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

AF> Let's take... Just two years ago we were in Donetsk at the casino
AF> "Third Rome" gave away the money accounting system in the casino, where the main task was
AF> protection.

From what?

AF> Everything is very It’s just that guys in masks come and say your casino
AF> has been arrested, and first of all they will go digging into the reports. Do you think they
AF> will break your database? That's why you write DBMSs, and we write database
AF> data.

Ie. did you use non-certified cryptographic algorithms to encrypt the database?
In this case, the casino director will have to bear responsibility for their
use. And he himself will tell the police the access password - health is more expensive...

AF> a similar thing is now being implemented at airports, where our system
AF> records passers-by with a video camera, and programmatically uses a database to determine the person
AF> where he sat down and where he arrived. I want to see how you take and write such a thing on
AF> ANY database shell known to you.

What, is it also terribly encrypted? :)

AF> Not to mention the analysis of digital images, and even taking into account shooting angles.

And this is also on ASMA? :) Please tell me the name of your company, it’s very interesting.

AF> Understand, this is a completely different level. No wonder you pee in a bucket, and youtry
AF> they'll put it in a bottle.
AF> Simple things can be done and you don't need to work hard for it, and the base is great
AF> you can write it on Asma, which is what KHAMPTON and I are doing, which is what is being done for
AF> aviation and the military, but believe me, there is no need for Windows with its
AF> useless technologies that will fly on every step.

Oh! Military woman! What OS are you writing for?

[...]

January 13, 2005 20:54, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> Well, in modern times there are “not computers” there :)

According to documentation, articles, etc. The phrase “on-board
computer” is often used. Well, what is an “Electronic Computer”? Or
Computer - a calculator? Calculator.. =) That's me. In fact
for rockets and launch vehicles it is a kind of collection of relays and
an electromechanical device for reading and issuing signals
for executing the “program”. Reliability issue. The thread
has burned out (and it should burn for n seconds) - relay P1024 has closed,
a signal has gone out: I’m at the 15th step of the “program”.

No, ICs have also been used lately, but the development of one
project and bringing it to “flying condition” can take
decades. Therefore, symbiotic options are used. It will take decades to
eradicate electromechanics as such.
Computers, even in the understanding of it as Turing machines
are in negligible demand, due to the specifics of rocket science.

AM> Well, for the MKR everything is clear, its task is simple: take off, navigate
AM> (it seems like by the stars), fly to the target and more or less accurately fall into
AM> epicenter :) But what flies far, and even returns - there
AM> IMHO some kind of butThe computer is worth it. As an example, I will cite the “computers”
AM> that were installed on the Apollo. Although they also acted according to the same
AM> principle: they calculated everything on the ground, and the task of the
AM> computer was to issue signals at the right moments.

This is a very difficult task, by the way. The returning options can
be counted on one hand. One hand. Rocketry in general is most
correctly compared to Incredible Machines, there was such a game. =)
But computers don’t fit well into such schemes.

AM> Why? There was a brief specification on the Internet.
AM> A relatively simple computer “out there”, well, perhaps with some freedom
AM> of actions. And everything else is “here”.

There are already flash drives (it just killed me), a processor (!). For this
occasion, you need to jump on one leg, roll your eyes and mutter
something unintelligible under your breath. The Russians then developed
new versions of familiar devices in order to find out how bad it would be for them
and adjusted for the expected working conditions.
And now there are other technologies. Digital photography, again
has come a long way. Then, everything that lies or even crawls
and measures is actually not something that flies. =) Therefore,
the song is really different.

AM> Could you explain more clearly:
AM> As I read, when landing"Burana" at some point everyone on earth
AM> "went crazy." For instead of flying as it was flying and
AM> landing, the device made an unexpected turn and flew a little differently.
AM> When we looked into it, it turned out that the on-board computer carried out an analysis and
AM> completely correctly performed unintended landing maneuvers.

The practice of periodically blowing up flash drives in this aspect is much
more interesting. =) I don’t know what was on that “Buran”, although
we were shown specialists from that project. It is possible to talk about something
specifically here only if you have project documentation in hand.
The issue of declassifying documentation on our complexes will
be considered only after 25 years (Sobolev got it!) and this is not
pure bureaucracy. Launch vehicles Proton, Energy - classical
rocketry. The rest is journalism. =) One brilliant
6-year-old Ukrainian hacker encroached on Pentagon bases. Only
with great difficulty it was possible to prevent the loss of all the developments
of the last 50 years. The reality is much more prosaic and the path from
wheel to cart takes hundreds of years.

AM> So why not have some fun? :)

However, the next letter.. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

January 13, 2005 17:59, Andrey Romanenko -> Aleksandr Majorov:

AR> Here is a comment from the outside: space in the USSR, as you know, was “not
AR> a public project, but a handicraft at the state level” (c)

Well, Nemo is a recognized authority in matters of rocket science.
Why coolant does the processor need? Don't you know? Me too.

Next question: why does a launch vehicle need coolant?
This is not a nuclear power plant. And not a Cossack. You see,
it is calculated in advance what and how long it will burn,
burn out, explode, etc. There is no need to cool anything.
And for these calculations, the school level of knowledge of physics,
mathematics, average institute knowledge of strength of materials, etc.
is, to put it mildly, not enough. And the knowledge of one person
as its carrier is also not enough.

What? Buran? What's there to cool? Pressure gauges? Water
is used as a coolant and as a working fluid, but
it doesn’t smell like computers.

You can build a rocket powder model in your yard,
but you won’t be able to put a satellite into orbit with it. A well-made
and calculated model will make a candle. But with a simple
dimensional conversion, it won’t even fly. So
the thesis about handicrafts, to put it mildly, is not competent.

Next question: what do you know about computer technology
inUSSR. As I understand it, in your youthful naivety, you decided
that the leading engineer of the design bureau brought a computer from home, overnight
drew some kind of interface device with a barrel of water, sculpted
a program, then: launched it - received bonuses. We have already considered the issue of the barrel
. To the question, could this happen in the USSR
where you are not from, I think you will find the correct answer.
I think it’s obvious to those around you.

Therefore, the following questions: Are you familiar with Nemo? Have you been messing around with him? Do you even know where these letters came from and who typed them? =)

p.S. Hint: Nemo, and MAS, and Lapo, and Medny, and even Sotnikov
with the modest Sobolev live in the same small town and
crossed paths more than once..

p.P.S. No offense. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

I am responding to your letter dated January 13, 2005, then Andrey Romanenko wrote
to Aleksandr Majorov, and then it was 17:59:32.

( )
AR> Here is a comment from the outside: space in the USSR, as is known, was “not
AR> a social project but a handicraft at the state level” (c) letters
AR> HEMO.

Hmm, a handicraft that the whole country worked on? This is great! :)

AR> There were many projects there - I personally know a person who participated in
AR> the development of a program on ASM under i8080 on which some kind of
AR> water filler (?) was made for the same project "BURAN". For this they worked
AR> together with Leningrad institutes! We worked in Kyiv. Conclusion: there could
AR> be anything.

It could be. The shuttles over there still use 8086 stones, they are already looking for these stones at all kinds of
electrical auctions :)
But it’s one thing to say that there could be anything there, and another thing to assure
that there were programs only on ASMA and no Java.

All the best,
Aleksandr.

( )

ES> The practice of periodically dying flash drives in this aspect is much more interesting
ES>. =)

I don’t think so :)
How many guaranteed write/erase cycles does an average flash drive have?
Hundreds of thousands or tens of millions.
And the Mars rovers were designed for only six months of “life.” They are now being rolled out in
"extra time", because it is impossible to return them, and it would be a pity to throw them away :-)

ES> I don’t know what was on that “Buran”, although
ES> we were shown specialists from that project. You can talk about something
ES> specifically here only if you have the project documentation in hand.

Yes. I just read the statements of many comrades who took different part in this project. But since you can write anything on the Internet, it is impossible to guarantee authenticity :)

Although many people mentioned “unexpected maneuvers” during landing.
Buran was programmed to land on the main point or on several
reserve ones. Plus he was “taught” to fly correctly.
Everyone expected him to just land and that’s all, but upon approaching the runway he made
several turns and sat down. As it turned out, he did everything absolutely correctly, because, having assessed all the weather conditions, he chose a more correct landing trajectory. Which they later (by studying the records) confirmed everything.

()

to Andrey Romanenko, and then the clock was 6:31:40.

( )
ES> Next question: why does a launch vehicle need coolant?
ES> This is not a nuclear power plant. And not a Cossack. You see,
ES> it is calculated in advance what will burn and for how long,
ES> will burn out, explode, etc. Something doesn't need to be cooled.

Hmm... It's strange, from what I've read + the stories of a boss who at one time was
engaged in the design/creation of carriers:
fuel first passes through such pipes inside the nozzles, performing two
functions: cooling the nozzles so that they don't melt for nothing, and warming up
the fuel so that it ignites faster (better?) combustion chamber.
Or is it all wrong?

All the best,
Aleksandr.

January 15, 2005 21:18, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> Hmm... Strange, from what I read + the stories of the boss, who at his
AM> time was engaged in the design/creation of carriers: the fuel at first
AM> passes through such pipes inside the nozzles, performing two functions: cooling
AM> nozzles so that they don’t melt down, and heating the fuel so that it
AM> ignites faster (better?) in the combustion chamber. Or is this all wrong?

Yes, he is absolutely right. I kept thinking, will anyone catch this?
It seems like there is no one.. =) There is such a constructive one. But not water
cooling! I won’t give the calculations without a summary, but it would be of little use there. And it’s also expensive to carry water with you.
The useful weight is already negligible (compared to what we spend).
An old story: the Soviet cosmonaut Grechko carried a sledgehammer on board
. Indeed, the sledgehammer came in handy. They say that after
the flight they calculated the cost of the unaccounted for sledgehammer: if it
had been made entirely of platinum, it would have cost one and a half times
less than the one that flew into space. =)

Reagent injection, stage separation, etc. problems are solved purely
at the mechanical level. Moreover, these are not at all trivial tasks for liquid rocket engines.
The Americans were unable to solve them in their time (also on the issue of
handicrafts). We have solid fuel rockets -politics, as well as
corn and many other “popular” decisions.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

January 15, 2005 21:12, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> Even so? Aren’t they using some kind of “non-burning” systems
AM> for time measurement?
AM> RC-chains there or counting the number of pulses from a clock
AM> generator?

The bottom burned out - gas started flowing - the volume increased - the membrane broke
- the rod moved - an electric pulse appeared, “saying” that
the stages were time to disconnect - response impulses to squibs
detonating the bolts connecting the stages - bang - two bolts did not
break, but they were knocked out with a change in the trajectory of the device -
sensor readings changed relative to the normal at this
second of flight - the fuel supply to such and such
chamber increased for n seconds - normal/not? normal/not? hooray! Let's fly further..

There is a battery. There is a timing device. But events
take priority. Not a single launch vehicle flies as intended - constant adjustments are required. We on earth
cannot separate the stages earlier or later, but in reality
they will separate plus/minus seconds or not separate at all,
then the tests will fail. We can anticipate
emergency situations and get out of it one way or another.
How exactly is different for different models and even series
of launch vehicles. Launchesare carried out until
emergency situations arise only due to the fault
of the personnel preparing the launch, but (with a high probability)
not due to the fault of the rocket design. About 40 launches -
very successful, excellent design. The same applies
to combat missiles. As an example: if Putin comes to
tests and some tested Igla makes
an unforeseen feint, the leadership will be responsible for everything.

AM> Apollos, all 13 of them, our lunar probe (the one that delivered samples
AM> of soil). In principle, among those that did not return, but (most likely) equipped with
AM> computers, all Mars rovers can be called, probably the Venus probe. And,
AM> of course, Voyagers and what is/was spinning around Jupiter/Saturn.
AM> I wrote and thought: but for sure, one hand is enough, if you count :)

In addition, half of what was named directly related to the “era
of uncontrolled spacecraft.” =) In general, I can
be more responsible for our hardware than for American hardware. The conversation
was initially about Burany, the USSR, etc.

AM> Why? IMHO, without computers it would be impossible to control vehicles on
AM> Mars flying around Jupiter/Saturn. Because it's too far away to do real-time control. Here you need some kind of computer, albeit a very primitive one.

Crawling somewhere, andcontrolled - yes. If something is spinning somewhere
far away, it is spinning in automatic mode: Saturn will not
suddenly change its movement characteristics. The probe has arrived -
is moving in a certain orbit around the object - it is gradually decreasing -
there is no one to accelerate it, because it is far away, which means it will not burn up
if there is an atmosphere / will not collide with the surface if there is none
or simply will not die having exhausted its service life. He doesn't fly
from planet to planet. He's a stupid companion. Or it can be directly
dropped onto the surface, like the Venusian ones, in this case
nothing depends on it either.

The probe can be given a command - remove/don’t remove. But it’s simpler than we did: always shoot and send. We will see/not see in n time
. The readings of all
installed devices are sent simultaneously.

In the event of abnormal behavior of the probe, a special analytical
department will draw conclusions from these readings. Radio engineering - yes.
Electromechanics - yes. But not a computer.. Although times are changing:
something flew off from Mars somewhere from the Americans, then for a long time
they told a story about confused 0 and the letter O (to the question
about Java =)

AM> Well, about the flash drive - yes, but the processor...
AM> You should know that Intel products (8086 _it seems_) are already flying beyond
AM> the boundaries of the Solar systems(Voyager 10 or 11).

Shouldn't. Peaceful space is exactly as peaceful as it is needed for research, which is difficult to carry out in the military sector. On the Voyager that flew beyond
the solar system there was a sign with a scary girl and a man
raising his hand. Intel should just advertise this
at every step. I'll definitely look at it tomorrow at work.

AM> Why are they different? Just in miniaturization and that's it :)

Others are that the American way of life, thinking, etc.
penetrates into all spheres of life. And technology too. The statement
that “Ours” made with an “axe” is better than “Theirs” made
with a “file”, IMHO, is not far from the truth. Look for yourself: “Our”
complexes are designed to operate in a wide range
of temperatures, the launch will take place even if the mine is
located at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion, the world's first
underwater launch also belongs to the USSR, while for
others this is still a novelty. The list could go on for a long time.
I’m already becoming like that comrade with his Asm. =)
But for us, the main issue has always been reliability,
while for them it’s cost. If we combined
these approaches.. Computers, they are cheaper..

AM> How much is the average flash drive?cycles of guaranteed recording/erasing?
AM> Hundreds of thousands or tens of millions.
AM> And the rovers were designed for only six months of “life”. Now
AM> they are already being rolled out in “extra time”, because it is impossible to return them, and
AM> it’s a pity to throw them away :-)

Conclusion: buy only Kingston. By the way, I read it on
securitylab.ru about the new generation of memory we have developed?
If it’s not a fake, but if they patent it properly, Yes, if they can
set up production, a lot if.. Not only will they get rich,
so also this.. The Americans got it.. =) They would have waited 2 years
and would have avoided the flash drive problems.

AM> Although many people mentioned “unexpected maneuvers” during landing.
AM> Buran was programmed to land on the main point or on
AM> several reserve ones. Plus he was “taught” to fly correctly. Everyone was waiting for him to just land and that’s it, but upon approaching the runway he made a few turns and sat down. As it turned out, he did everything absolutely
AM> correctly, because, having assessed all the weather conditions, he chose a more correct
AM> landing trajectory.Which later (by studying the records) everyone confirmed.

Look: the plane always makes several turns, while
the pilots receive information from the dispatchers about where to land,
about weather conditions, etc. I myself was once on a plane for half an hour at night
circling over Perm due to a jammed landing gear. And the weather conditions
were there... Later I found out that a supply of fuel is always provided for this
. Why should it be different here? This looks like an excuse
for big bosses. Buran is not a warhead to fall plus/minus 3 meters for us and plus/minus 12 meters for the Americans.

p.S. By the way, do you know what is cheaper than a computer? Human. If the task is done correctly..

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

Hello!!!

ES> there are also coders who solve any problem by simply
ES> changing
ES> the file format!
Of course, any problem cannot be solved, but the impossible can be done.
For example, I was in 2004 in Severodonetsk, where the SpeXtream party was held.
There VNN, brought three songs sandwiched by his personal method. VNN from the KCS group, which is located in the Donetsk region. One of the compositions lasted 15 minutes, it was one of the tunes of the Enigma group. Excellent
sound, sound and 100% processor load. This, of course, is on Speccy!

ES> While on the Spectrum you can choose between TR-DOS, CP/M,
ES> IS-DOS, MacroModem, PinkFloyd, etc, etc.. Such a rainbow
ES> of operating systems
ES> is rarely seen anywhere.
If the world of PiCi was not built only on commerce, then they could would
do a lot of good things. By the way, you can add such a thing as D80 to your list. Poles and Slovaks cannot live without it!

ES> And on the Spectrum there are simply no slowdown programs! Single-frame MOA
ES> Service Monitor, Copy-Copy, DCU, even Basic and that single-frame one.
ES> When I watch how a window is drawn in 128 mode or launch
ES> another software from 48 Basic (to play with AY) I feel
ES> a legitimate feelingpride. Where are M$ or Borland with their stupid
ES> compilers. If PayCash wrote their applications on the z80 asm,
ES> users would feel much safer.
ES> And so, they even have ATMs, and they don’t always give out money. Ugh!
The Speccy has slowdown programs, but they simply become unnoticeable in the
heap of truly well-made programs. For a long time I was so used to
displaying animation in one IHT that when I sat down at Windu my eyes constantly hurt,
it’s very annoying that I sometimes skip ten cars in the IHT. Mouse movement
is absolutely terrifying.

ES> You're right. All these DBMSs are bullshit. I have never before
ES> experienced such an orgasm as I did every time I calculated the addresses in the
ES> ZX video memory. As a professional to amateurs: Are Spectrumists still
ES> trying to write a single-frame full-screen rotator? This
ES> is pure art, can you imagine: a picture
ES> 256x192 scanned on a PC rotates SMOOTHLY clockwise. And this is 48Kb 3.5MHz
ES> Speccy!
Addresses in Speccy are powerful, but a complete mess for PiTsyushnikov, they even write out
formulas for them. Once I was dabbling in PiTsyushny Spectrum Navigator, I almost died of laughter when I saw the address calculation word on the screen for ZX. And I’m generally silent about databases. NeverI understood why he was boasting about this, and did not
understand why these people are called programmers, fortunately at least the concept of Coder was not stolen. True, I admit, throughout my entire life I wrote databases, or rather I would say created them, only about ten times, sometimes I had to, but all the time I felt dullness. Constantly waiting for the computer to write something down somewhere, then some KEY VIOLATIONS pop up. Of course the task is completed, but
it would be better to just create a file and write to it in connection with the condition of the task.
PiTsyushniki probably just exclaimed - WHAT IF I need to delete something from
the middle? Shout if you can't...

ES> See the task above. I believe that she is tough for you! Don't disgrace the
ES> platform, prove to the pissy lamers what the art of
ES> Coding is. Some crap MAS wouldn't even take on this
ES>!
Why do a task when it has already been completed? VNN from Donetsk, KCS
is easy to contact, you just have to find any ZX-Time, by the way, in my opinion, in the last
issue they shoved this Enigmu, but I didn’t see the last issue.

ES> Of course, each procedure must be generated and scattered across
ES> memory. We know perfectly well what we have and where it is in our memory.
ES> Unlike.
Honestly, when I first got to PiCi, the first thing I decided wasattack
with her understanding of what lies and where. Yes, even if it’s a mess, you’ll still understand. I
I can't Codi blindly. It’s always clear on Speccy, I just read the compiled program directly in bytes and you understand that it’s a mess, but not here.

ES> What are the conditions? We'll tear the mastday players to shreds without any
ES> conditions!
No, there's no need to tear them down, they'll try to run to Speccy in order to
prove something, they also didn't have enough time to write demos in VASIK for Speccy!!! Although I once
saw a compo dedicated to this, to be honest it was surprising.

ES> Indeed. I'm now typing 'standards' into Yandex and I see 16 million
ES> links dedicated only to port #7ffd.
Well, of course, if you type Intel, there will be more in the square, but each
of us knows that they ran out of money, buying up other technologies. Today
a friend came to see me, and by the way, she dug into Speccy.
I looked at what they were doing and doing on it. After she found out that Speccy
3.5 megahertz, she wanted to reconsider everything else. and when I found out that this
computer had not been upgraded since 1986, I just couldn’t tear myself away.

ES> As long as Fill writes programs, we won’t be lost!
I’m Rob F., and I haven’t distributed anything since 1997, although I wrote.
Those were difficult times. But now I’m really writing. I'm finishing up the demo.Yesterday
I made an archiver, implemented it into my own compiler, for PiTsyushchnikov it
can be called a language, it can easily be used to describe almost any programming language with macros. But why is this necessary, more quickly! Now I compile
any program, immediately pack it, and immediately upload it to the VASIC file with all
monoloaders and depackers. In short, press “enter” first!

ES> This is very important: do not look for benefits. If I were the same Nemo
ES>, I would have given away payments for free, but he still wanted money for them.
ES> Instead of developing in all respects for the joy
ES> of yourself and people.
They will always look for profit, almost everyone is tied to money, only a few
people do it from the Heart.

ES> Generally undeniable. Besides Fill, Alone Coder also does something.
ES> Where are the rest? Apparently they want it, we just haven’t seen the result yet. But when they do it, you'll rock it!
Yes, I noticed Alone Coder a long time ago, he really is a good Coder. But there are
many others. I would really like to gather everyone.

ES> And it’s just terrible! If earlier there was one interruption per
ES> day, now they simply began to disappear in batches. I spent the whole
ES> evening yesterday looking for 2 missing interruptions. It turned out the cats came to play.
Lots of jokes, but I rejected a lot of my own at PiCiprograms, only because
they want to run them under Windows, but it stops breathing. Well, I can’t allow myself to show someone my program where suddenly, with one interruption, everything
twitches, it’s beyond my dignity. Therefore, PiCi is only good for counting, so I use it for compiling or calculating some
formulas. Today the same girl asked a question: what is that horizontal line flying on the emulator? After all, this didn’t happen on the real Speccy? Although the emulator had a scan rate of 50 hertz, it was not going to catch the beginning of the monitor frame, but was adjusted using SB. Pay attention, this girl is far from computers, but she is an artist, and they will notice every little thing. So you can't fool people
art!!!

ES> I learned so many interesting things that I don't even know how to
ES> digest it. I'll make it easier and forget about it. =)
But I can’t forget it, I had to work. But Speccy is great and it doesn’t even need to be proven - it’s reality...

AM>>> Windows, or do you work where there is no PC - you can only... hmm,
AM>>> sympathize? envy? :)
I always thought that this was weighing me down so much, but this turns out to be a rare use of
Windows.

AM> Tell me, aren’t you surprised that cars don’t have wings like
AM> airplanes.
AM> What the hell are you saying?
AM> I repeat once again - Windows is not a real-time OS. It wasn’t
AM> conceived as a real-time OS.
On Speccy they didn’t give real-time AXES, but for some reason everything
works so fast there, why??? Apparently this is my hallucination.

AM> And who is stopping you from knowing the fact of the interruption?
AM> If Windows interferes, then don’t use it.
Not a fact, but exactly at that microsecond when it happened. And I don’t use it. Others use it, and if I give them my program, and it runs under Windows, then I simply have to bring it to mind so that it works IDEAL, and not like Windows applications. Honestly, the only computer on which
I press a key and the reaction occurs with a half-second delay is
PiCi, for me this is absurd, and this is no longer unreal time, but just brakes.

AM> Nonsense and nonsense.
AM> However, if you consider all OS developers and developers of all
AM> programs for these OSs to be non-programmers, it’s your business.
I don’tI said that they are not programmers, I said that they are not Coders,
let me remind you, these are those who, in any case, will take care of the correct execution of
their software product... - THE BASICS OF CODERING!!!

AM> So, well, let's go.
AM> So we downloaded something and launched it.
AM> Well, how are we going to enter data into the program? Load from file -
AM> requires OS. Receive data from an input device (and from any! even
Speccy CALL 15635, PC - MOV AX,3D02H, INT 21H... Just as daylight.
AM> unknown to the program) - you need an OS. You need to display something on the screen, on
AM> a printer unknown to the program, receive/transmit data over the network, etc.
In any case, the asm will be executed. And how can it be unknown?
There is a link between them - a standard format issued to the driver for the printer. This
is the stupidity of PiTsyushinikov, it is necessary to standardize printers and not the format for
WOOD. This is what makes Speccy great, and in its dissimilarity to the original it looks like a
twin, PiCy only looks like a bag of money.
AM>, etc. - you need an OS! No, of course you can implement all these functions
AM> yourself in the program. But your program will be the size of the OS :) A
C axis??? God, what a horror, my JIMMY, this game on ASMA takes up as much as 125024
bytes, along with all the graphics editor and a bunch of other crap.
AM> what will you do whenwill there be a new device with which
AM> your
AM> program needs to communicate? Should we release a new version of the program?
My JIMMY works on all types of PC the same way, even under XP, it just may
miss a couple of interrupts within a minute, it requires an awesome speed from the
computer as much as 486-80 megahertz, that’s exactly how much is needed to light up the EGA screen. On it I implemented graphics with approximately 32 colors and not 16 and with
shades. I don't need something that's not standard, I'll make a program so that it works everywhere. I don’t want to hear from someone that my work somehow froze or froze somewhere. On Speccy, I made it for a hundred different programs, and even those
children's works were polished in such a way that no BREAK would cut them off and would not hang up anywhere. Of course, you can find a glitch in them, but believe me, they will
look for it for a long time.

AM> IMHO you still use it. Or so it seems to me.
I use PiCi, of course, but I will never allow myself to program in
SI something that simply fits into ASCM. Of course, I understand that the concepts of
elementary are relative, but still there is common sense and it is important to check the status of the IFami ports on
SI in AVERA or PIKA. But if you like it that way, no
problems, SI is in your hands...

AM> I agree, I wasn’t. But I have indicated the minimum requirements.
I do not indicate the requirements, I just make sure it worksno requirements.
Ha Speccy, one requirement, do not accidentally press RESET...

AM> And what is now the standard for Speccy?
AM> Someone says that it is the Pentagon, someone - Scorpio, someone in general
AM> Sprinter is in the dark. And someone will claim that the standard is the original
AM> ZX-Spectrum 48 (128) and nothing else. Y?
Yes, you're right, the standard has disappeared on Speccy, too, but not to the same standards as on PiCy,
now there are video games that generally only work under Windows XP, this
in my opinion, is just rudeness on the part of the creators of electronics!!!

AM> Alas, the main thing is in quantity... in the number of users of the platform. And
AM> there is almost no fresh influx of people. There are only “old guys” left who
AM> started with Speck 10...20 years ago. And even then... There were already
AM> estimates: They are engaged in Speccom while there is a lot of free time, i.e.
AM> while you are studying. Somewhere in 2008, the “last generation”
AM> of those who came to Speck will finish their studies. And then the work begins and there will be no time for Speccy.
It’s so good that Speccy doesn’t have everyone in a row! And about work - you're right, but
I work, and I'm doing Spec, today I spent the whole day finishing the demo. I still couldn't understand why something was saved to disk when I started it. I've already tried everything, but I was thinking of getting into the debugger, fortunately someone from heaven didn't let me
get bogged downin stupidity, I decided to run the same program on a real Speccy, and
then I realized that the Z80Stealth is simply buggy, although it is better than the others, but
choosing the better of two evils is worse than creating your own - the best!!! I tried the same thing with other emulators, it worked on some, but in the end it was buggy. Apparently
programmers shared Z80 emulation LIBRARIES and their glitches, like Windows
started to multiply like viruses...

AM> Yes, there is _more_. But this, alas, does not last forever.
About ten years ago, Dreamer told me that in five years no one would even remember about
Speccy, then a couple of dozen more said so, and all
what happened, they were gone from Speccy and he remained. So there is no point
predicting the future when the past is unknown!

AM> It seems so to you now. We remember that a person can
AM> assimilate
AM> only a certain amount of information.
AM> With increasing knowledge, the “incoming flow” of information increases. And sooner
AM> or later you will have to cut off what you don’t need.
I will consider myself a bottomless RU5... All the same, I will try to learn everything, and
what I need will be automatically packed in my head into libraries, or
the simplest formula about them will be saved, and then you can get it out in hot pursuit!

AM> I believe that you need to have some kind of basic education and be able to search for and
AM> learn a new oneinformation. But as needed.
AM> Besides, now you don’t know what you will need to know in a year.
AM> Just don’t ask what “some kind of basic education” is - I won’t answer
AM> :)
In a year we will do what will be needed in a year, this is already obvious. Still
so far, pah-pah-pah, I did everything that was asked, and didn’t do any work!

AM> Nope. Development is learning. And training implies
AM> diligence.
I will develop diligently, this will not spoil the training?

AM> You won’t believe it, but I have known Spectrumists who, by your
AM> definition, “don’t want to do” and PCs who “want to do.” :)
I don’t quite understand... Making PiTsishnikov... I don’t even want to “DO” them, God be with
them, I just don’t want to start getting stupid just because everyone is programmed in SI, and
so for the sake of appearances I had to write shells on all sorts of SI, VASITS and
other things, fortunately I found TMT-PASCAL, in which the creators really on glory
worked hard. Perhaps this is the only truly high-quality, high-level language. The main thing there is a 32-BIT asm, after that my programs even under Windows began to take up very little and do not require all the perversions with
LIBRARIES, which either need to be registered directly with MICROSOFT
or some other crap in the form of a couple of thousandthe message boxes are missing this or that...

AM> This is “superiority in capabilities.”
Superiority in speed is not yet an opportunity in superiority. Look
PiTsyushka was given 2 gigahertz or even three, but this did not make the Windows work
faster, and in some cases even slower... - Degradation...

AM> By the way, there is an opinion that _all_ inventions of mankind were made out of laziness.
Asm was created because of genius, this is the main thing, and the rest is a matter of art !

AM> Yeah, I’ve seen work like this. Where I write one line of code, you
AM> have to write 2...3...10.
AM> And the result of the work will be exactly the same, there will not even be a gain in
AM> speed. But the time of writing code and debugging...
Let's debug forever, it's more like programming under Windows.
Maybe this is the case with others, I wish them to quickly learn how to do everything step by step,
although in modern compilers it is difficult, they compile in a minute, you look and forget what you just wrote...

AM> No. Because I will use crypto-resistant algorithms,
AM> an encrypted database, etc. Of course, I haven’t seen your database, but I doubt
AM> that the pros from the “K” department or whatever it’s called now will not
AM> be able to open yours without any problems“protection”.
We couldn’t, that’s why we sold this system very quickly, it works reliably.
By the way, it was with these people from “K” that we started military development. Although this is figuratively called the military, they are still sponsored by cool guys, just those
who are involved in aviation...

AM> Oh, don’t say “databases” so proudly.
AM> Or will you assure that your database is completely
AM> crypto-resistant? (Do you have mathematician-cryptographers with
AM> good qualifications on your team?) Or is your database more stable than
AM> Oracle, which seems to be now a kind of standard
AM> of stability?
I'm sorry, stability in data storage, or stability in reliability
encoding? In any case, both the first and second were tested at a very cruel level. The only thing our system reacted unstable to was
microwave radiation, in general all sorts of isotopes, such as an atomic explosion, such
tasks were not set for us.

AM> And I have no doubt that if necessary, I will write something like this. :)
AM> Of course, not alone, because it requires too much knowledge in
AM> completely different areas.
AM> Studying all this alone is a long and meaningless work.
I was the only programmer in this project. It was difficult, I hate working in slow Windows,that's why it's difficult. And everything related to the low
level was great, fortunately we decided to do everything at a low
level, which saved us from failure. And I have no doubt that you will write, but I
think that it is unlikely that these guys will accept the use of the ORAKOLOVSKY base. It will definitely be broken, and I have already been convinced of this.

AM> Don’t be ridiculous, such systems have existed a long time ago. And there have been developments in these
AM> areas for a long time.
AM> It’s true that they were written (with a very high degree of probability) in Java.
Image processing, show me? That is, there is video shooting and its analysis in
real time? identifying a person? What are the requirements? What are the costs of recreating it? One of our processor units costs up to a thousand dollars? What do competitors offer? I think money is being taken like a linden tree!

AM> Windows again, talk about some useless technologies....
AM> The world is not limited to just one Windows OS, there are a bunch of OSes.
No, the world is just crazy about Windows!!! There's a ton of choice at Ammi, a ton of variety. And even though there was crazy commerce on it, I managed to see such
diversity that it was simply dizzying to my eyes. That's the choice...

AM> How many people were in the project? What is the volume of source codes
AM> (at least approximately).
Electronics - Sergey Fil (digital)
-Chivel Alexander (analog)
Chief - Kostya (helped with SMD design and implementation)
Designer - Vasily (designer of all hardware - housing design)
Coding - Fil Alexey (all coding)

Some people were left without last names, I apologize, but I don’t have the right
to disclose. The board layout was electronic in ORCADE. The designer worked on a drawing board, since all known programs constantly gave errors. for example, they forgot to draw holes in the drawings. Then you send a batch of a hundred parts to the factory and you think either DamnGates is to blame, or the printer and driver didn’t make friends. We came to a simple method - the TRUE one (like ASMA) =). I'll look at the size of the source files
now, but I don't promise that I'll tell you everything, since the latest versions are at
work... Calculation is in progress...

So:
Under Windows on TMT-PASCAL:
A director's program with 5 windows in Windows takes up

FLOT1.pas .................... 315010 Bytes
FLOT.gfx .................... 1024293 Bytes
Packed into one EXE with my personal packer in the size of 589312 Bytes

Server written on the same TMT-PASCAL in 32-BIT mode, launched from
BIOS, of course, almost everything is written in assma:

COMUNIT.pas ....... 6442 Bytes My personal !
SERVER.pas ................... 30211 It compiles all the others.
SPKEY.pas ................... 40842Bytes My personal !
SPVIDEO.pas .................. 1081 Bytes My personal !
E-SYS.pas .............. 894329 Bytes Actually all the stuffing.

It is packed into a program executed from the BIOS from any address, after which the
32-BIT mode suits everything itself. An AXIS (DOSA)
is attached to all this for correct work with the FlashDisk

Low level, not with me right now, but there is about a meter in total
complexity. In all likelihood, simple programs with their own protocol network organization,
which I proudly called “ROBUS PROTOCOL v.??” I don’t remember the rest, it was encoded using all sorts of methods like XOR, and many others. The protection was carried out using an electronic key containing a 16-byte unique code. So only this
could help break our system. It contains protection against the selection and
automatic destruction of information, that was the task. The server is guarded and
only a person can bring the program to the point of erasing information. To date, no failures have been noticed, it seems they don’t call me on business trips. We didn’t have any cryptographers, this is superfluous, but they were the ones who broke us, the SBU values ​​them. And really
smart, although it would be worth teaching them ASM!!! But why did I write all this out???
there is advertising for this thing on the Internet. I won’t tell you the name of the site, because they only
recently made it and decided to go global.

AM> If in factIf this is the case, then congratulations.
AM> Although I still doubt it :-)

AM> Yes, and we remember that there are very effective means of selecting
AM> passwords :))
I invite you to pick it up from us... =) If you want, you can, even for the sake of simple interest,
as I love it, try to break my old program on
Speccy step by step. I was having fun then, I just decided to make a program that could not be
broken. At that time, Speccy 128 was not yet known to me, so I did everything under 48.
It’s easy to figure out what exactly runs in it, but it’s not so
easy as desired. My program is called "ZX-CLUB". It uses one very simple
method, as soon as you understand it, you can immediately say with confidence what the trick is. Or my game "PITON-3M", with which I bet with one person, a very good Coder, that he would not break it. How the poor fellow suffered. He was given the task of changing the nasty things written in his direction on the screen. So
this never happened. As I remember now, there are 10 kilobytes of the game itself, and 11
kilobytes of protection. and such sophisticated ones... All these protections are a very simple
task; you don’t need to be a cryptographer for this. It's just like
object-oriented programming. I remember when I first heard this word, I was terribly frightened, I thought it was something incredible, then I realized that all my life I had been doing just that.programmed, but why give such stupid
names to such simple things!?!

AM> You're done with life :)
AM> AVR's with 4K are already being removed or discontinued.
AM> And for a long time there have been chips with 16/32/128 K.
AM> By the way, there is information that AVR'ki were developed taking into account the fact that at
AM> for them they will write programs in C.
In any case, any protsyk rustles with code and not with code, and in ASMA I will write
better quality!!! For me, quality is more important!!!

AM> No, the capabilities of the language.
AM> C is a “middle-level” language, so to speak, a kind of “high-level
AM> portable assembler.”
Why does ASM carry it? It's better to just write on it! Preneosit needs algorithms,
I’ll still understand this, but the remaining 99% and these are timers, DACs, TV series and a bunch of other
crap to write in SI is completely inappropriate. Why, when all this needs apr commands,
why create some kind of SI procedures that will SALL somewhere,
return and waste resources??? Why, it’s easier to write in ASMA... Life
is simple, only people create problems in it!!!

AM> You’re wrong. Atmel itself makes a C to ACM compiler for AVR. And the
AM> code turns out to be very compact! And it works quite quickly.
Yes, let ATMEL do SI for itself, even if it flashes BASIC. Well, try on
VAERKA twitch the prt at a frequency, for examplemegahertz, will SI handle this? I think he will choke in his own juice... But I love him. When the electronics engineer tells me
you can do something similar on this cheaper procik, I answer without hesitation - of course YES!!! The world is simple.

Hello !!!

AM> “Congratulations, citizen who lied” (c).
AM> Let’s do this: I’ll write something now (more precisely, copy it), and in
AM> you will write an essay on the topic “Aren’t I ashamed to lie on topics
AM> that are easily tested.” :-)
Of course, they are checked in an elementary way, I even managed to see a prototype of the computer at the institute... What I saw was what I told... So where did I lie?

AM> Aren't you ashamed yet? Then we continue:
It’s a shame... I’m beginning to understand. I need to switch to C... I'm already on my way...

AM> Well, look what they're doing, not only have they developed a special Java program,
AM> they've also made a compiler for it in C. And they also made a version for PC
AM>...
I wonder what version for PiCi they made when for this task at the institute
Saturn they specially developed a processor and wrote all the hardware for it...

AM> PS: you don’t have to write the answer, because everything is already clear...
I apologize for writing...

SK> From this point of view, alas, the situation is even worse on spec. There were too many
SK> people who liked to shove interrupt handlers into slow memory.
Now, finally there is a person who understands what a standard is! That's exactly why ALL MY PROGRAMS written in Speccy work IDEALLY on the branded Speccy. And I know very well about braking, and have written about it more than once in my demos and games, urging people not to turn into PiTsishnikov. Moreover,
after I realized that I would not be able to call to consciousness, I was
forced since 1996 to make my own programs automatically adjusted to
any Speccy!!!

AF>> with a person who lives in libraries, then most likely he
AF>> “why” is not interested in the fact that the product will be like a twin
AF>> to someone else, for example Windows.
SK> Ie. your programs don’t use libraries at all?
They do, I just write them on the go, so that there isn’t a
whole darkness of code in one file, so that there is order. Although in my programs the devil himself will “CURE”

AF>> in very extreme cases, but in 99.9999999 (99) percent of cases
AF>> it simply takes up space on my screw.
SK> This statement goes well with the signature “GED+W32 1.1.4.7” in
SK>your letter :)
It’s not my fault, I just needed to find a manager to
work with FIDO as quickly as possible, so I took the first one that turned up!

AF>> incurable illness to report this after his death. Well
AF>> I need to know that there was an interrupt once, I need to know that
AF>> it exists now.
SK> For such tasks there are real-time operating systems specifically, the same
SK> QNX
SK> for example.
Why, I just need to load and unload data, even with a command
string, but when my program is running, no matter what GADA (finda) was not present at
interruptions. For this, do we need some kind of abstruse real-time AXIS? To
this you need to remove all the crap from interruptions and that's it!!!

SK> That is. All your programs do not interact at all with
SK> OS?
SK> This is just cool! I just don’t understand why you limit yourself
SK> like that, and still use the OS to load them - loading it into
SK> memory is not difficult without an OS.
Why don’t you need an axis when executing a program!!! I said that you only need to unload the data... Well, if I, of course, write some kind of compiler,
then it’s clear that you can “print” through the axis, but for this you don’t need to launch underwater monsters like mouse or com port control on interrupts.

SK> :))))) You knowWell, most of those computers that in xUSSR are called
SK> ZX-SPECTRUMs have very little resemblance to the original. And between
SK> by the way, too. What kind of standards are there?
Exactly, to the point, you speak sensibly... But make an anology, to what extent is your modern computer compatible with at least a computer from 1999? Take the same
sound, do you have a 220H port working, or will your PS/2 controller work correctly
without exotic drivers? I’m generally silent about the rest; now in order to start the hardware, you only need drivers. And TF can you explain why
they removed the address from SB 220, why it was necessary to push it to another place?
Especially since it works exactly the same, all the same functions, they just stuck it in
another port. The only thing that plays a role here is money... Someone will buy themselves such a motherboard with some kind of KODAK, and they will realize that we are no longer working under this dossier. Let's go to Windows. Then it turns out that SB hangs under Windows 98, and we go to XP, and
everything works here. It’s a very simple commercial approach, to force people to buy a product... This is what happens with everything on PiCi and every day this cesspool stinks more and more...

SK> Is this a hint at Windows? :)
SK> Then I have to disappoint you - the AmigaOS you love so much has nothing to do with it
SK> sideways - the 9x line came from MS-DOS, NT - from the semi-axis.

Sorry, I could of course be wrong, butAmigaOS was made in 1986. Then in 1989 they released the next KickStart, with a new axis, which was no longer modernized. The latest version was specially made for WorkBench!
But I can say with confidence that when in 1990 I was in Slovakia, and
I got acquainted with the XTD, which participated in the compo, I clearly saw the AXIS flashed
directly into the ROM, which then delighted me beyond belief. Then I first saw
AMMI and uncultured Poles!!! I think during these years DOSYA slept in the form of “DREAMS” about
pontyaii Coding!

SK> Just childish naivety. Books you need to read:

SK> "The C language, originally intended for writing
SK> the UNIX operating system on the DEC PDP-11 computer, was developed and implemented on this system by Dennis Ritchie."

SK> Now try to rack your brains and think about where UNIX would be now if
SK> it had been written on ASM.
I think a lot further!!! But in any case, ASM RULEZZZZ!!!

SK> What are you talking about! Now in “visual bass” graphics are drawn using
SK> DirectX.
I beg your pardon, but DIRECT X itself displays it in the form of sent pointers to
the memory point where, say, the letter that needs to be highlighted is located? I think he
diligently transfers it to the card driver, which after all thisperversion
translates it into the usable form of video data. And what processes
occur and how many resources are consumed for all this is not known to God himself!

SK> No, well, you wrote a little higher that you only need the axis for loading,
SK> and
SK> it turns out you use it for something else... Disappointed...
I said for loading, I need to load the file into memory, so I use it,
I need to save it, but nothing, sorry... I'm not against the axis, I'm against it hanging on my ints and interfering with my life.
SK> By the way, since you seem to be a cool coder, I want to
SK> ask -
SK> how to process ActiveX events from ASM? I recently tried to make
SK> from C, but I couldn’t, so I had to use C++. I'm just
SK> curious, how much time will it take you to solve this generally
SK> trivial problem using ASM?
Not very much... Programmed on ASMA and under Windows, and launched applications
from various DLLs. To be honest, I did this once, it was necessary for our
system to insert a key lock, bears and images from assma. I think that you can run any applications from ActiveX, as long as you know the names of procedures and
input parameters, and the specifics of their use. Moreover, ActiveX is clearly not one DLL but many, we just got used to calling it as one whole.If
it is really necessary, then MICROSOFT supplies a description of these things, although it omits half of it. The DLLs are specifically described there, and launching them is not a problem,
just give the name of the DLL and its component...

AF>> the casino "Third Rome" gave away a system for accounting money in the casino, where
AF>> the main task was protection.
SK> From what?
From hacking of information... The turnover of money in the casino is kept track of, and it needs to be
hidden, just like names and surnames employees (dealer and managers). In general
protection from reading information...

SK> Ie. did you use non-certified cryptographic algorithms to encrypt
SK> database? In this case, the casino director will have to bear responsibility
SK> for their use. And he himself will tell the police the access password - health
SK> is more expensive...
Everything has been thought out here for a long time... Until 1996, directors generally walked around with a
device that, when you pressed a button, created a magnetic field and erased
the floppy disk. And make a device right for your pants!!! Sounds funny. I laughed myself, but that’s how it was... But he won’t tell me the password, he doesn’t know it! He has an
electronic key, if he gives it back, then the pipe, but this is the only way.
Now we will do a similar thing only at the world level. Comrades
from Las Vegas were very interested, and here they also had elections at hand. I think
now there will beconnection with the key and the touch of a certain person to
it. The directors agree to lose the database due to an error, but not to expose it! New
Russians will give their lives for money!

AF>> see how you take and write such a thing on ANY database shell known to you
AF>>.
SK> What, is it also terribly encrypted? :)
The company guarantees the quality of protection!!! Of the 100% information, only 5% is real
data, the rest is practically RHD, and in general constant noise flies through the networks and
it is very difficult to understand where the useful signal is and where the data is. Of course, some cool services will sort it out, but we haven’t gotten to them yet, we’re too small a fish for them, this is a lousy casino, not wars or the fight against terrorism!!!

In 1981, I ended up at a closed military landfill near St. Petersburg. My father took it with him, and his childhood friend brought it - he worked for the military service in the field of radio electronics. Here are interesting sketches from there.

A flat ribbed piece of iron measuring approximately 50 cm per meter, with a thickness of
several centimeters. Along the edges of the ceramic insulators, the leads are hundreds
one and a half, if not more. When opened, the inside of the circuit is made of frameless lamps,
resistors and mica capacitors - instead of soldering, there is welding. Before opening
the air was pumped out from inside. The design, according to my calculations, was capable
of operating at temperatures of about 500-600 degrees, and maybe even higher.
The rigidity of the case was amazing - it could withstand single hammer blows
without visible consequences.

A basket with a dozen boards measuring approximately 10 by 25-30 cm. The same number of boards were placed in
perfect order in even rows numbered
microassemblies in specific cases. All boards are different by chip numbers and
tracks and there is not a single passive element on all boards. In some places there are obvious “digital buses” on the prints. Everything was thickly filled with epoxy varnish and could not be disassembled during operation.

But there were almost no relays in the landfill, and my father’s friend, who works for the defense industry,
said that the reliability of electromechanical relays is orders of magnitude lower than electronics
and they are now being triedDo not use unless necessary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
( )
AM>> Well, the fact that the “Windows graphical interface” was communized from somewhere is
AM>> is already known. Just not from the Amiga.

SK> Well, in general, AF IMHO did not write about the graphical interface, judging by the mention
SK> of multitasking.

But the skip knows him, he said “Window was done,” but did not specify -
multitasking or guy.

( )
AM>> True, I could not find a description of the laws on this topic on the Internet. More precisely
AM>> most likely I found it, but did not understand the Ukrainian language :)
AM>> Shouldn’t SBU representatives at the stage of “checking” this database first of all show certificates and all that stuff?

SK> Well, the Ukrainian language is not so different from Russian that it would not be possible to understand it
SK> ;)

Well, I don’t perceive it in writing form :)
I understand a little by ear, but not literally...

SK> This is what their laws say:

SK> “Software developer when used in information
( )

SK> That is, simply using _certified_ algorithms is not enough, you also need
SK> a license from the SBU, that you also _correctly_ use ;))

It remains to find out whether AF has such a license :-)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

( )

ES> Yes, he is absolutely right. I kept thinking, will anyone catch this?
ES> It seems like no one.. =)

So this is a well-known fact :)
Although it may be well-known to me, since I was at one time
interested in this topic, but it remained at the “interesting” level :)

ES> There is such a constructive one. But not water
ES> cooling!

I tried to figure it out from the point of view of common sense...
Here we cool it with water (I’m not talking about excess weight). Where should we dump the heat from the water?

( )
ES> The useful weight is already negligible (compared to what we spend).

If I’m not mistaken, 1 in 10? For 1 kg of load you need 10 kg of fuel.

( )
ES> Reagent injection, stage separation, etc. problems are solved purely
ES> at the mechanical level. Moreover, these are not at all trivial tasks for liquid rocket engines.
ES> The Americans were unable to solve them in their time (also on the issue of
ES> handicrafts).

And they actually couldn’t solve a lot of things :)
There is an old story about how the Americans spent a lot of bucks developing a
fountain pen that could write in zero gravity...
While ours used.... a pencil.

Or from the words of the boss:
The batteries on the rocket are recharged until the last moment. And the “charging” point should leave when everything is ready, we’re flying. Those. after the 1st second of flight.
When there was something together,the Americans came to Baikonur and asked
this question there.
They say the first second is almost impossible to calculate, we do it this way and that, well, the mast doesn’t leave on time, and you?
And ours: hey, here’s the groove, there’s a mast in it. When the rocket rises a little, the mast
crawls along the groove to its widest place and is knocked out by the spring!
:)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

( )
ES> Solar system there was a sign with a scary girl and a man
ES> raising his hand. Intel should just advertise this
ES> at every step. I'll definitely take a look at it tomorrow at work.

They wrote a little about this a year or two ago, when they decided to try to get in touch
with the devices. By the way, we got in touch. Only the signal was weak, in general they realized
that the device was still alive and flying :)

( )
ES> Conclusion: buy only Kingston. By the way, I read it on
ES> securitylab.ru about the new generation of memory we have developed?
ES> If not fake, but if normal they will patent it, and if they can
ES> set up production, much if.. Not only will they get rich,
ES> but also this.. The Americans got it.. =) They would have waited 2 years
ES> and would have avoided the flash drive problems.

It’s unlikely... There WAS a lot of information about “Elbrus” that they were about to start
mass-producing a super stone... And where is it? :(

( )
ES> p.S. By the way, do you know what is cheaper than a computer? Man. If done correctly
ES>..

You are hinting about von Braun’s experiments in developmentguided missile systems?
:)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

VB>> Hmm... Isn’t it destiny to read relevant literature? Both of you talk such nonsense
VB>>.
SK> That is. Are you also going to claim that Windows came from AmigaOS? :)

The window-graphical concept of GEM itself was developed by Harry Kildall. The same one who developed CP/M. In the early 90s, Kildall went to court several times, and finally sued Gates for a lot of money. And he was killed in 1994 under unclear
circumstances... A year after his death, MD95 was released.

[...skipped...]

_·····------====== Monitor glass cutter ======------······_
There is another rather complex story that connects Digital Research and
Microsoft. Work on the LOGO environment led Kildall to focus his attention on graphical user interfaces and create GEM (Graphical Environment Manager), which was an Apple-style interface for non-Mac computers. There is an opinion that it was GEM whose existence stimulated the emergence of Windows and OS/2, but it never became widespread. This is explained by several reasons, but
primarily by the marketing techniques used by competitors in the fight
against GEM. They were not distinguished by sophistication and nobility, since they were talking about dividing up a large pie. In the few years leading up to the creation of GEM
the public trusted Microsoft,expected software products from it, therefore
for about three years of constant promises from Windows blocked the development and sales of
other graphical interfaces, including not only GEM, but also Geo-Works and
Visi-On.
_·····------====== Monitor glass cutter ======------·····_

WBR, Jason.

_/(ZX)/_ /*e-mail: jason2000(scary dog)yandex.ru ICQ: 62235830*/

/np:/ *silence*

Lord... What nonsense... How old are you? Do you even go to school? The first and
most important purpose of a program, _any_ program, is to provide
the functionality inherent in it or, to make it clear to you, to produce the expected and planned result. Everything else is secondary by definition. Doesn't it kill you that your cell phone was produced on an assembly line, and not hand-painted by the author under Khokhloma? Programming in the modern world
is also a conveyor belt. Programming for the sake of the art of programming
has remained only as a hobby, passion and nothing more. Yes, you can, in a narrow
circle of such enthusiasts, compare the “beauty” of your own programs with
the programs of others, just like you. But comparing a photo from the cover of a magazine and an original painting in a gallery - what should you think about? Under the PC, 99% of programs
are written _for_ work and as work. There hasn't been any smell of art there for a long time. And
should not - otherwise it will stop bringing profit and will begin to slow down
development.

[skip]

I heard something different. "Winda", i.e. GUI windows appeared long before CP/M appeared at Bell Labs on a machine with a Lisp processor. The idea was to give each program its own I/O window. And everything else is borrowed from this
primary idea.

AM> I heard something different. "Winda", i.e. graphical interface windows

Precisely graphical? Long before CGA and Hercules? By the way, “for a long time” in
your understanding is how much?
No, I certainly admit that there were graphic adapters in the laboratories. But there were probably several of them for the whole world... Just remember what kind of processors
were then. Tube. Servicing even a monochrome graphical
interface would completely eat up their modest power.

AM> appeared long before the advent of CP/M in Bell Labs on a machine with
AM> a Lisp processor.

Well, long before the advent of CP/M (i.e. in the 50-60s) there was a kingdom of alphanumeric
terminals and punched cards. And the terminal is even better. =) Often
the only output device was a "daisy" type printer.

AM> The idea was precisely to give each program its own
AM> input-output window. And everything else is borrowing from precisely this
AM> primary idea.

You can only borrow publicly known ideas.
So you can go as far as saying that the Aztecs borrowed from the Egyptians the idea of ​​writing
letters/hieroglyphs on clay tablets.

January 17, 2005 10:15, Andrew V. Miheev -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> In 1981, I ended up at a closed military dump near St. Petersburg. Father
AM> took him with him, and his childhood friend brought him - he worked for the military service in the field of
AM> radio electronics. Here are some interesting sketches from there.

Get sick. Are you familiar with the concepts of “regime”, “regime enterprise”,
“regime storage”? Even now, even at a corporatized LMZ
they will check your pockets at the checkpoint, and God forbid they find a floppy disk, or
worse than a flash/CD. I'm not even talking about some Armavir-16.
By the way, I don’t know any closed landfills near St. Petersburg (although I can’t undertake
to say 100% sure). Maybe some LenVtorTsvetmet or
Metallostroy has passed for a closed landfill? =) I don’t think at all
that any of our navigation, radio-electronic circuits
would fall down like that. The disposal of this entire economy was
organized from the very beginning, including the removal of what fell in
uninhabited/swampy/forested etc. areas. And in 1981 there were still spies everywhere. In 1991, there was a story with the Voenmekhovsky Iranian student
when the cops took him at the technical school and were not too lazy to look at his notes. Maybe they were very dated.
Or maybe there were instructions. But the student was kicked out of the country.

AM> A flat ribbed piece of iron measuring 50 cm perapproximately a meter, a few centimeters thick. Along the edges on ceramic insulators there are conclusions -
AM> hundreds and a half, if not more. When opened, the inside of the circuit is based on
AM> frameless lamps,
AM> resistors and mica capacitors - instead of soldering, there is welding.

Welding, of course, by explosion. =) I'm being ironic. All buildings
of equipment in the USSR at least somehow related to space are characterized
by a waffle or cellular structure, which increases
the rigidity of the structure by orders of magnitude. Americans really have oblique and
ribs. Further, figures of rotation and their elements are held in high esteem. Probably
drew diagrams at the university? Heritage. Own connectors for
100 or more copper contacts, but this is at least
a piece of the device. The rest is prosaic.

AM> Before
AM> the air was pumped out from the inside. The design, according to my calculations,
AM> was capable of operating at temperatures of the order of 500-600 degrees, and
AM> maybe even higher. The rigidity of the case was amazing -
AM> withstood single hammer blows without visible consequences.

From this you concluded that it was suitable for working in airless
space? =) There is no need to complicate your life so much. Before
launch, the rocket is COMPLETELY rebuilt by 2-3 combat crews.
There are 2 repair kits. Blocks that fail the test are changed in
place and sentmanufacturing plant. There
there is nothing designed for a hammer. I can easily make a dent with a hammer
in the body of any rocket, airplane, etc. The sheathing generally
burns and falls off in pieces if there is anything
to fall off. There are areas strewn with pieces of burnt
casings (since this is of no value to
spies, and cleaning up after yourself is expensive, and the country is large).

AM> A basket with a dozen boards measuring approximately 10 by 25-30 cm. On all
AM> boards, the same
AM> number of numbered microassemblies in specific ones are arranged in perfect order in even rows buildings. All boards are different according to
AM> chip numbers and tracks and there is not a single
AM> passive element on all boards. In some places there are obvious “digital
AM> buses” on the stamps. Everything is thickly filled with epoxy varnish and cannot be disassembled during
AM> operation.

The numbers are painted with white paint, with a thin brush. Black threads are stretched between the bodies
. Inserted in blocks. Just some kind of device of unknown purpose, the size of a cabinet. There is a tire in the warhead
, even two. But it’s not what you think, that’s the term. Somewhere:
digital technology.

AM> But there were almost no relays in the landfill, and my father’s friend, who works for
AM> the defense industry, said that the reliability of electromechanical relays is orders of magnitude
AM> lowerelectronics and they are now trying not to use them unnecessarily.

Well, yes, hello, we’ve arrived. That’s why all over the country there are factories
specialized in relays and not having the right to change their type of activity.
The unfortunate Northern Dawn, where I began my career,
had to work hard to get permission to produce water purifiers
in the form of a kettle. Do you see these teapots in stores? I don’t see it.
You can go to NW and buy it - they will take it out to you at the checkpoint with great
joy. Although half of the plant is rented. =) I’ll just say that
now the dead defense industry is finishing digesting the groundwork developed
in the 70s. In 1981, the backlog of the 55-60s was digested. Relays have flown
into space, are flying and will continue to fly. There are no options here. The Buran about which was written here is the end of the defense industry. And the materials on the Internet are far-fetched, mythologized - the end of the defense industry. Digital technology
in the USSR.. Think about what you are talking about.

AM> How does the star orientation system work? Not only does
AM> the information need to be taken, even from some kind of videocon, it also
AM> needs to be digitized and communicated with a bunch of references to variables and constants.
AM> Is this also done on a relay? I doubt. Those. there are probably relays, but in
AM> a small part of the control nodes. The main work and mathematics,
AM> IMHO, are onelectronics.

Mlyn. Are you forcing me like this, out of the blue, to give away state secrets for which I am banned from traveling abroad for 25 years? =)
Look here: we need stars as normal. Of course, 1000 years
ago the sky was different, but it changes so slowly that
this can be neglected. We don't need all the stars - we need the ten
brightest ones. Take a board, make 10 holes in it and go out with it
outside the city on the new moon. Next, orient the board so that the light
of at least one star hits at least one hole. Hold the board
parallel to the ground, stuffed animal. Do you see a spot on the ground? Take the transistor
with the cover removed and use it as a photocell. This
transistor will be the most technologically advanced element in your future
warhead. So many different people have built their own dachas with this transistor - you can’t imagine. What problems do you have now
? Does the Moon/Sun interfere? We'll cover it with a lens hood. How to keep
this board parallel to the ground in a flying rocket? What do you need a gyroscope for? How to take into account angular deviations from the resulting normal?
Take three more gyroscopes and orient them accordingly on
the first one, which has in its design the board described above
with holes in the appropriate places. All! Now they'll definitely put you in prison. Beer from you.. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AM> It’s very bad that you didn’t go to college. If I had studied, I would have known

Institutes have one bad quality - they instill stereotyped thinking.
Older professors and textbooks from many years ago... Remember how Niels
Bohr entered the university.
I graduated from MADI 10 years ago. What I was taught there was hopelessly outdated even then. Now - and even more so.
For some reason, all my classmates have the same memories of the first requirement
at their first job: “Forget everything you were taught at the institute!”

AM> that the compressibility of any data is finite and you cannot “step over” this boundary, i.e.
AM> “do the impossible” no matter how hard you try. Hence the conclusion - you heard
AM> you either compressed MIDI or with poor quality - neither electronics nor mathematics will allow you to do more
AM>. And you can tell fairy tales to children
AM> in kindergarten.

I’ll answer you with a parable.

One man inherited a big
diamond from a terribly rich deceased aunt. Well, what to do with it? I decided to go to the jeweler. He carefully examined the diamond and exclaimed: “This is a unique stone!” It costs a lot of money! I won't undertake to process it! What if I do something wrong, what if I make a mistake! No, I won’t undertake to do it, and don’t persuade me!
The man went to another master. He also refused, citing thosethe same
reasons. I went to the third one. It turned out to be the old Jew Tsiperovich. He examined
the diamond and shouted to a boy sitting in the corner processing some kind of ring:
- Monya, my boy, make this pebble!
The man, with fear:
- Listen, how can you trust your young assistant?! Don't you know what kind of diamond this is?! The most experienced jewelers refused to process it!
- Sha, sha, my dear! You know what kind of diamond you have and how much it costs. I know what your diamond is and how much it costs. But Monya doesn’t know, and he will do it!

mess: what I mean is that a trained fool with a ossified brain will not do
something simply because the impossibility of this very something has been drilled into him.
The history of mankind knows a lot of similar examples.

JPEG and RAR on the Spectrum were made by people who did not know that they were doing
the impossible. I remember Roshal, foaming at the mouth, argued that RAR 2.x is possible only for a 32-bit platform, and even for a 16-bit DOS it is impossible to do it. Eheheh.

VK> The window-graphic concept of GEM itself was developed by Harry Kildall. The same
VK> who developed CP/M. In the early 90s, Kildall was sued several times, and
VK> finally sued Gates for a lot of money. And he was killed in 1994 under unclear
VK> circumstances... A year after his death, MD95 was released.

VK> [...skipped...]

VK> _·····-------====== Monitor glass cutter ======------······_
VK> There is another rather complex story that connects Digital
VK> Research and Microsoft. Working on the LOGO environment led Kildall
VK> to focus his attention on graphical user interfaces and
VK> created the product GEM (Graphical Environment Manager), which was
VK> an Apple-style interface for computers other than Macintoshes.

Note that Kildall did not develop this out of nowhere either. And in general, judging the origin of an OS solely by the design of the graphical interface is stupid, IMHO, but developments in this area are actively being “torn” from one OS to another.
You need to judge by the internal organization of the system, and not by the guis - so Unixes with
KDE installed still remain Unixes, despite the fact that KDE's guis are very Windows-like.

AF> Exactly, to the point, you speak sensibly... But make an anology, to what extent is your
AF> modern computer compatible with at least a computer from 1999?

There can be no analogies! Between the PC of 99 and the modern one there are years of evolution, while
Spectrum clones are an attempt to “lick” the original, using domestic “loose” instead of
ULA, and compatibility was deliberately sacrificed for the sake of various reasons, most often simplicity.

AF> Take the same sound, you have a 220H port working, or your PS/2 controller will
AF> work correctly without any exotic drivers?

This is exactly what the OS cares about. Therefore, programs that were written “for the OS” and not for “hardware” in 99 continue to work now - on a modern computer.

AF> I’m generally silent about the rest, now to run the hardware, you only need drivers.

Naturally, the hardware becomes more complicated from year to year. Compare the device of the CGA adapter with a modern video card, do you think that the registers that were in the CGA are enough to control the latter? :).ports.

AF> Moreover, it works exactly the same, all the same functions, they just stuck it in
AF> a different port. The only thing that plays a role here is money... Someone will buy himself such
AF> a motherboard with some kind of KODAK, and then he will realize that we are no longer working under this dossier.
AF> let's go to Windows. Then it turns out that SB hangs under Windows 98, and we go to
AF> XP, and here everything works. It’s a very simple commercial approach, to force people to buy a product
AF> ... This happens with everything on PiCi and every day this cesspool is getting bigger and
AF> it stinks more ...

If you don’t want to buy Windows, use free OS, the same Linux, who’s stopping you?
And using MS-DOS on modern hardware is a perversion akin to necrophilia.

January 17, 2005 00:12, Alex Fill -> Eugene Sobolev:

[skip]

256 byte intro - 24-bit plasma, under WinAPI, running on
all Win, with DirectX support, was written in 1996.
This was the first record set. And long ago beaten.
Crooked-armed lamers go into the garden, in a friendly crowd.
Like an Amizhnik - to a Sinclairist. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

January 17, 2005 18:52, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> So this is a well-known fact :)
AM> Although it may be well known to me, since I was at one time
AM> interested in this topic, but it remained at the “interesting” level :)

You could have graduated from Military Mech. This applies to everyone.. =)

AM> I tried to figure it out from the point of view of common sense...
AM> Here we cool it with water (I’m not talking about excess weight). Where should the heat from the water
AM> be dumped?

Into the Environment. Everything will burn, evaporate, etc. You can still mess with the OS for a long time. Where does poop go from an altitude of 11,000 meters? =)

AM> If I'm not mistaken, 1 in 10? For 1 kg of load you need 10 kg of fuel.

You need to look specifically. A universal relationship, of course
, does not exist. The only thing hanging out in my head is: 40 tons, 40 tons..

AM> And they couldn’t solve a lot of things at all :)
AM> There is an old story about how the Americans spent a lot of bucks developing
AM> a fountain pen that could write in zero gravity...
AM> While ours used... a pencil.

In the 3rd year I was told this 4 times, with bulging eyes
and abundant gesticulation. Thank you, I reminded you.

AM> The batteries on the rocket are recharged until the last moment. And
AM> the “charging” head should leave when we’re all done, we’re flying. Those.after the 1st
AM> second of flight. When there was something joint, the Americans came to
AM> Baikonur and asked this question there. They say that the 1st second is almost impossible
AM> to calculate, we do it this way and that, well, the mast doesn’t move on time, but what about
AM> you? And ours: hey, here’s the groove, there’s a mast in it. When the rocket rises a little
AM>, the mast crawls along the groove to its widest place and is knocked out
AM> by a spring! :)

In my opinion, it wasn’t so much that amazed them. The fact is that the connectors on
the mast are installed ROUND. There's a lot going on there.
Especially when starting from the mine. A bunch of squibs are blown up.
There is a reserve for travel from the hatch to the bow. Pressure accumulator
in the tail section. The hatch reclines or is blown apart
by the pressure after the start. It is necessary to put
several tons on the hatch (I don’t remember exactly) so that it is not eliminated.
The guarantee of launching from a mine at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion is close
to 100%. After the launch, the rocket seems to hang over the mine.
Of course, it can be carried away by some wave (if they really tried to destroy the mine
), but a serviceable rocket
has a great chance of flying. You can tell them like fairy tales
, but in reality all decisions are quite prosaic.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

ES>> done correctly..
AM> Are you hinting about von Braun’s experiments in the development of guided missile
AM> systems? :)

I'm hinting at how great it is to warm your hands to national
tragedies, to extract subsidies for this cause (and we warned you!)
and to shout at every corner about the lack of funding. This is about
Americans. The money is returning with a bang, there are statistics.

I also hint that if we get to cheap
Earth-Moon-Earth transport (the next 200 years is fantastic)
and master the extraction of some rare earth terribly
expensive substance there. And now a certain corporation makes 10
starts, of which 5 are consistently unsuccessful. Is this a problem?
Even if you have to turn the pedals, there are a million
qualified pedals. Because there is a chance
to earn very good money and a chance to return
alive. Even if they are sick. As soon as the first becomes available
, the second will become a reality. If a person in
this transport can replace all computers - for
health. New Klondike, how many more will there be?
I’m simply emphasizing the difference between the approach
from the cost side and from the reliability side.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

You remember when and on what they appeared. These are PiS standards, and before PiS it was necessary to build a bunch of 8-bit computers, starting with Altair and ending with Apple's Lisa. But this is already the time of _single-chip_
microprocessors, and before that there were _sectional_ processors. Look for information
on the triple-chip (or dual-chip?) iAPX 432 from Intel - a fun
32-bit system. 8-)

> >> I never understood why people were boasting about this, and I didn’t understand why these people
> >> are called programmers, fortunately they didn’t steal the concept of Coder.

> AM> Coder is literally a person who codes a computer program. In the old days
> AM> performer was a low-ranking position that transferred a program from a certain language

> Eheheh. Well yes. It is not a royal thing to write programs.

No. Printed using black ink. The assemblies have
the emblems of the manufacturing plants (different) and the production date - the month and two digits
of the year. The numbers are five digits - 90% start with zero. The housing cover
is aluminum. The size corresponds approximately to DIP-14. The round leads extend downwards. Pitch - 2.5 mm. On some assembly numbers, some
pins are missing. When opened, inside is a ceramic board with resistors and capacitors sprayed onto it. Transistors in the form of crystals
glued onto ceramics and most often multi-emitter - I actually from this
drew the main conclusion about the “logicality” of the assemblies. I was also struck by the tracks
of the printed circuit board - they are different widths everywhere, but the gaps between them are always
the same. It feels like the board was milled.
The metallization of the through holes is very high quality, almost like copper
pistons.

> Low level, not with me now, but there is about a meter in total
> complexity. Instead, simple programs with their own protocol network organization,
> which I proudly called “ROBUS PROTOCOL v.??” I don’t remember the rest, it’s encoded
> using all sorts of methods like XOR, and many others. The protection was carried out using
> an electronic key containing a 16-byte unique code. So only this
> could help break our system. It contains protection against the selection and
> automatic destruction of information, that was the task. The server is guarded and
> only a person can bring the program to the point of erasing information. To date
> no failures have been noticed, it seems they don’t call me on business trips. We didn’t have any cryptographers, this is superfluous, but they were the ones who broke us, the SBU values ​​them. Indeed
> they are smart, although it would be worth teaching them ASM!!! But why did I write all this out???
> there is advertising for this thing on the Internet. I won’t tell you the name of the site, because they only
> recently made it and decided to go globalуровень.

( )
AF> Coding - Fil Alexey (all coding)

That's enough. I guarantee there are holes in the SEA program.

( )
AF> asma) =). I'll look at the size of the source files now, but I can't promise that I'll tell you everything
AF> since the latest versions are at work... Calculation is in progress...

AF> So:
AF> Under Windows on TMT-PASCAL:
AF> A director's program with 5 windows in Windows takes up

AF> FLOT1.pas .................... 315010 Bytes
AF> FLOT.gfx .................... 1024293 Bytes

315 Kilos of source codes in ONE file?!
Yessss, sir knows a lot about perversions... Now it’s clear why it takes you a few minutes to compile the program for
any changes.

( )
AF> Server written on the same TMT-PASCAL in 32-BIT mode,
AF> launched from Bios, of course, almost everything is written in assma:

AF> COMUNIT.pas .............. 6442 Bytes My personal !
AF> SERVER.pas ............. 30211 It compiles everyone else.
AF> SPKEY.pas ................... 40842 Bytes My personal !
AF> SPVIDEO.pas ................. 1081 Bytes My personal !
AF> E-SYS.pas .............. 894329Bytes Actually the whole filling.

Heh, you say server...
And how does he communicate with clients? Of course, I also did my own support for the network?
And how multitasking is your server?
What happens if two clients _SAME_ try to add a record
or change the same record?

( )
AF> Low level, not with me right now, but there is about a meter in total
AF> complexity. Once again, simple programs with their own network organization
AF> protocol, which I proudly called “ROBUS PROTOCOL v.??” I don’t remember the rest
AF> it’s encoded with all sorts of methods like XOR, and many others. Protection
AF> was using an electronic key containing a 16-byte unique code.
AF> So only this could help break our system.

U-oo-o-o, how neglected everything is... 128-bit key, XORK... Yes... I, with
my very modest experience, will most likely be able to break this.
As I understand, you have never heard of asymmetric encryption algorithms (encryption with
public/private keys)?

AF> It contains protection against the selection and automatic destruction of information, that was
AF> the task.
AF> The server is guarded and only a person can bring the program to the point of erasing
AF> information.

Well, well, since there is an auto-erasure system, this means that it is possible to launch it
from the outside.

( )
AF> There are no cryptographers at allwe weren’t there, that’s superfluous, that’s why they broke us
AF> they are the ones who are valued at the SBU.

If these “cryptographers” didn’t look at you and your pile of xorks as if you were
abnormal, then they’re not cryptographers at all.

AF> They’re really smart, although they should have been taught ASM!!!

You’ll laugh, but cryptographers don’t need to know at all asm.
By the way, what asm do they need to know? There are a lot of them!
Cryptographers do not need to know programming languages ​​at all.

( )
AF> happened. As I remember now, there are 10 kilobytes of the game itself, and 11 kilobytes
AF> of protection. and so sophisticated...

Well, why are they so sophisticated? As always, the Xorks? This is old...

( )
AF> object-oriented programming. I remember when I first heard
AF> this word I was terribly frightened, I thought it was something incredible, then I realized
AF> that I had been programming this way all my life, but why give such
AF> stupid names to such simple things!?!

OOP in ASMA? You're cool!

( )

I will argue that HT has nothing to do with the axle shaft in principle, because
it was written by different companies. And Windows stole many features from MacOS, and the guy went
from photocopiers.

AM>>> where would almost all operating systems be now if it were not for C?
VB>> In ALGOL, Fortran, Forte, Lisp, ADA, COBOL, etc. On pascal and
VB>> vasik, in the end.

SK> Yeah, only Algol, like Fortran, was focused on solving engineering
SK> problems (at least 58 and 60), and Forth was an interpreted language, and
SK> was used as an alternative to Fortran on minicomputers, where there was simply not enough memory to use
SK> Fortran :)

And?

SK> In general, writing an OS kernel in a high-level language causes certain
SK> problems - applications written in such languages are usually tied to
SK> the corresponding runtime libraries. Are you proposing to put them in the core of the system
SK> too?

What's the problem? Have you seen AOS?

SK> PS. Cobol in the list of languages ​​suitable for writing an OS looks especially
SK> erotic :)

I tried it, right? 8))

WBR, Vladimir Berezenko AKA Q-Master q_mast...@mail.ru
ICQ #84695765

ES> In my opinion, it wasn’t so much that amazed them. It's interesting that the connectors on the
ES> mast are installed ROUND. There's a lot going on there.

What's so strange about the round connectors?

All the best,
Aleksandr.

ES> They butted heads with PIII? Isn't it? We were ahead of PIV by some
ES> months and were unable to establish production. And what is the point of this
ES> now?

The point? And the point is to do it even better later.
In Ukraine (it seems) they are developing their own cell phone. Yes, the 1st model
turned out to be huge and scary. Well, after all, we can continue to develop.

There, AMD and Intel fought over who would overcome the 1 GHz barrier faster - everyone
this only made things better :)

January 19, 2005 11:15, Andrew V. Miheev -> Eugene Sobolev:

[skip]

AM> If you are so interested, I can clarify where exactly we went.
AM> I remember only the train and another forty minutes walk from the station.

That means in a residential area. =) No. There is no need to clarify anything.
I REALLY believe you. Just even from the context. Of course
on occasion I will find out where such a thing could happen so that no one nearby
mentions it even once. It’s mysteriously simple.

AM> Is it really possible to replace any electronic unit of a rocket?

There are almost none, if not practically none. In the same
Military Mech there are more than 15 complexes. You can climb into the
oxidizer tank if you really want to. Twist the gyroscopes.
Break off the conder as a souvenir (if you suffer from vandalism and
are not afraid of the consequences that can be organized especially for people
like you). Of course, they are not put on
public display and you have to study up to them, pay
your fee for becoming familiar with this material. You can study
, as you know, endlessly - if only you have the desire.
Why am I saying this? Moreover, there are signal lines, relay
harnesses and 4-5 boards of what can be called radio engineering.
There are connectors for checking signal lines (buses) on the stand.
I don’t dare call it electronics.

Now aboutline-up.. Imagine 2 gyms in length.
There is a rocket in them. All the boards are located in the space that
will take up a 15" monitor on your desk. The star guidance system that I talked about here is an average
office desk. Add up the volumes and imagine it in the form of a cone.
The rest is iron. Probably anyone should understand,
without even climbing the tanks and without swinging the nozzles, that there will be electronics besides
the warhead nowhere, and if it’s not there
, then it’s not there at all. Rocket, here it lies in front of you
cut up. The boards are disassembled into pieces and hung on the
walls in the form of stands with indicators for each element.
These are your laboratory works.

AM> Great! Our people can do it!
AM> When they want... 8-)

They can help with electronics! remote-controlled missiles. =)
They fly nearby. The entire volume is not occupied by the solid-fuel
engine, which is exactly what it is occupied by.

In use: The rocket flies and the train unwinds behind it.
You, by eye, bring it to the tank. The
cable transmits signals to turn on the servomotors
turning the nozzles and wings.
Very promising developments. and very low efficiency.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AM> Complete nonsense... Nonsense “on the night before Christmas”...

AM> Describe to me in your “macrolanguage” the program below and the source code generated by it
AM> Post the source code in assembly here, and we will look to make sure
AM> that you are not deceiving the local public:

AM> for (i=0;i<8;i++)
AM> {
AM> if ( i == 2 ) i++;
AM> }

One moment... This will be sent immediately in the next message! To
this you need to exit the editor, and he, bastard, immediately creates a letter to send,
so if Windows, as always, with its many tasks, does not freeze, then it will be
right here, otherwise it will be in the next message...

It didn’t hang... Sorry, but maybe it’s a little not very precise in accordance with
the specified task... It’s just a bummer to describe the SI structure. When
I was making a description of my language, I made an example with FOR and NEXT, I will send it, if
it is really necessary, then I will do the SISH one.

Example:

.FOR = TO ;Create Macro FOR ?=? TO ?
LD (@M1+1),HL
LD HL,@.1
LD @.0,HL
LD HL,@.2
PUSH HL
LD HL,@..
PUSH HL
@M1
LD HL,0
..

.NEXT ;Create NEXT ?
LD (@HL+1),HL
LD (@DE+1),DE
POP HL
LD (@JUMP+1),HL
POP DE
LD (@SP+1),SP
PUSH HL
PUSH DE

LD HL,@.0
INC HL
LD @.0,HL
AND A
SBC HL,DE
@HL LD HL,0
@DE LD DE,0
@JUMP JP C,0
@SP LD SP,0
..

ORG 0
LD HL,123
LD (O),HL
FOR (N)=1 TO (O) ;Use FOR
NOP
NOP
NOP
NEXT (N) ;Use NEXT

N: DW 0
M: DW 0
O: DW 0

Just as clear as day... As you understand, the program is for Speccy, and I didn't
want to go far from ASMA itself, so that it would be universal. Therefore
the expression (N) means to use the memory point directly, if
you just use N, then it will think that it is an address. If in FOR (123)=1 TO
(O), you will generate an error... If you need to describe a pure language without such
restrictions, then just change the description of FOR... For the version with SI it will be
something like this, I will describe only the beginning of the macro:

.for ( = ; ) {
;body of the macro ...
..

.}
.? @.M=for ( = ; )
;the body of the next macro ...
..
..

It is clear that I did not describe i++, but this is already elementary, you will need to
change the macro for your language and name it at least"POOR." Lord, dear
people, do you really think this is all programming??? Yes, it’s just like God’s day, I grew out of all this back in 1992.

For some reason, you are unlikely to be able to write such a program in any language you know, just as you generally cannot write in SPECKI:

ORG 65536-(END-START)
START
;Here is any code with any labels...
DS 1234
END

I checked, any ASM is shut up, and PiTsyushny TURBO ASSEMBLER is the same...

And this? :

EQU ZX.R.PC=16724
EQU ZX.R.Break=4561H

EQU ZX.r.SP=24500
EQU ZX.r.IY=23610
EQU ZX.r.IM=1

EQU ZX.r.Page=16
RunEmulZXne ;Here the emulator starts SPECCY !
;Exit via Break Point ...
;I think you can guess the rest ...

If anything, tell me where to send the compiler, otherwise then say whatdon't believe me. Although, to be honest, it’s time to grow up... You’re wondering how old I am, but you’re like little children...

>> AM> Yes, the simplest option is to insert the chip into the stand and check.
AM> Nobody does this - chips are produced in millions of batches. No
AM> Chinese
AM> hands are enough to insert these chips into the sockets manually.

The conversation has gone completely into a different place from where it began! Look at subj. So the question is that in REALITY, many companies now present so-called evaluation boards on which the microcontroller itself is sealed and all its legs are connected to pins that are located around the perimeter of this small board. And
the point is that it is quite possible to wire the main board of the ZX-a in such a way that the
evaluation board of the microcontroller is installed on the board of the new ZX-a no more difficult
than any other DIP package. And now the key question: Is there an evaluation board suitable for us on the market? If not, is it possible to separate them
and order them somewhere at a normal price (in order to then send ZX to fans in the same way
as they are now sending the same HL8 for ATM)? If you make it possible to freely order
such controllers already installed in the auxiliary board from Moscow or
St. Petersburg, then it is quite possible to use them in new computers - people will be able to repair
and assemble their ZXs as they do now.

Regards.

And it turns out to be such crap... Moreover, with so much unnecessary code, and also
not working in ROM, and even with an error. Now it has become clear what kind of “programmer” you are - an ordinary talker. Now let’s see what the “free”
SDCC C compiler generates - I didn’t cut a single line:

;------------------------------------------
; File Created by SDCC : FreeWare ANSI-C Compiler
; Version 2.4.1 (Apr 12 2004)
; This file generated Thu Jan 20 12:02:35 2005
;--------------------------------------------------------
.module test
.optsdcc -mz80

;------------------------------------------
; Public variables in this module
;--------------------------------------------------------
.globl _main
;--------------------------------------------------------
; special function registers
;--------------------------------------------------------
;--------------------------------------------------------
; ram data
;--------------------------------------------------------
.area _DATA
;--------------------------------------------------------
; overlayable items in ram
;--------------------------------------------------------
.area_OVERLAY
;--------------------------------------------------------
; external initialized ram data
;--------------------------------------------------------
;--------------------------------------------------------
; global & static initialisations
;--------------------------------------------------------
.area _GSINIT
.area _GSFINAL
.area _GSINIT
;--------------------------------------------------------
; Home
;--------------------------------------------------------
.area _HOME
.area _CODE
;--------------------------------------------------------
; code
;--------------------------------------------------------
.area _CODE
;test.c:1: void main (void) {
; genLabel
; genFunction
; ---------------------------------
; Function main
; ---------------------------------
_main_start::
_main:
;test.c:5: for(i=0;i<8;i++)
; genAssign
ld bc,#0x0000
; genLabel
00103$:
; genCmpLt
ld a,c
sub a,#0x08
ld a,b
sbc a,#0x00
jp p,00107$
;test.c:7: if (i==2) i++;
; genCmpEq
; genCmpEq: left 2, right 2, result 0
ld a,c
cp a,#0x02
jp nz,00112$
ld a,b
or a,a
jp z,00113$
00112$:
jp 00105$
00113$:
; genPlus
; genPlusIncr
inc bc
; genLabel
00105$:
;test.c:5: for(i=0;i<8;i++)
; genPlus
; genPlusIncr
inc bc
; genGoto
jp 00103$
; genLabel
00107$:
; genEndFunction
ret
_main_end::
.area _CODE

I.e. the code is shorter, faster, in full accordance with the task (with if
inside), without errors and can be placed in ROM.

--
Good bye,
Sergey

Submit your comments to your friends@mail.ru - http://talk.mail.ru

AM> This is hardly another step. There wasn't much difference in the devices.
AM> Although I could be wrong.

You're talking about the technology, and I'm talking about the purpose. If I
wrote “one more step in astronautics,” then yes. Apollo
is so well known due to the fact that they implemented
a program of step-by-step collection of information, primarily about the Moon.

By the way, I just looked: Apollo 11 could not fly beyond the
SS because delivered Armstrong and a friend to the Moon and back.
And Apollo 8 was the first manned spacecraft in orbit of the Moon.
I have no records about the rest. I propose to consider the alien
Apollo 13, regardless of the historical truth. =)

AM> What's the point? And the point is to do it even better later.
AM> Over there in Ukraine (it seems) they are developing their own cell phone. Yes, the 1st
AM> model turned out to be huge and scary. Well, you can continue to develop
AM>.

Yes, this makes sense. But the design bureau did not collapse; information about them periodically appears. It’s just that there was a wave of advertising back then about
how they would tear everyone apart. Their general director was flamboyant and star-struck. And yet, investments in the production of mobile
are incomparable with those that will be required to create a modern conveyor,
hiring specialists, etc. In addition, in the case of mobile
everyone understands thatthe investment will pay off. In the case of
microprocessors, it is very difficult to interest business in such
projects. In our country, somehow all the manufacturer's stickers
are re-glued and passed off as their own.

ES>> crap for a long time yet. Where do the poop go from an altitude of 11,000 meters?
AM> Hmm, we seem to be flying outside the atmosphere, where heat release is more difficult?

E.. We develop about 8000 m/s and go into orbit almost
naked. At about 11,000 m/s we leave orbit. The second space mission has been recruited. Vacuum density.. =)

AM> What's so strange about the round connectors?

Try pulling the plug out of the socket at an angle of 30-45'

p.S. By the way. Since people here are so interested in Buran. Here:
3 pieces, 1 flight in 88. in automatic mode, 105 tons (30 tons
payload), 36x24 m, 2-6 crew members.

Shuttles (for comparison):
5 pieces, 92 flights in 88g. (1 piece - "Challenger" exploded),
115 tons (14 tons of payload), 37x24 m, 7 crew members.

Another shuttle will explode - and we will be ahead of the rest.
Provided that our 3 do not rot by that time.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

ES> By the way, I just looked: Apollo 11 could not fly beyond
ES> SS because delivered Armstrong and a friend to the Moon and back.
ES> And Apollo 8 was the first manned spacecraft in orbit of the Moon.
ES> I have no records about the rest. I propose to consider the alien
ES> Apollo 13, regardless of the historical truth. =)

About Apollo 13 you are in vain. This ship is known for its emergency flight.
It was heading, like the 11th and 12th brothers, to the Moon with its crew, but on the way something
exploded (like an oxygen bottle), rotating the outer wall
(the inner wall was not damaged and no depressurization occurred) and damaging
the ship's power supply. In short, the crew, using the remaining energy and reserves of the lunar descent module, boarded the last one, instead of landing on the Moon, circled it and after a few days of flight, on the verge of death, splashed down safely in the Pacific (seemingly) Ocean. I read about this back in the 80s, while studying at school. And in the 90s, Hollywood made a feature film about it. That's what it's called - "Apollo 13". So the historical truth will be cooler than all the fairy tales about the "slants". :o)

Maxagor. NedoPC group. PC ATM-turbo 2+

ES> You're talking about technology, and I'm talking about purpose. If I
ES> wrote “one more step in astronautics,” then yes. Apollo
ES> are so well known due to the fact that they implemented
ES> a program of step-by-step collection of information, primarily about the Moon.

Hmm, but it seemed to me that they were well known for:
1) the tragedy with Apollo 1
2) the first landing of a man on the Moon
3) the accident on Apollo 13
:)

ES> By the way, I just looked: Apollo 11 could not fly beyond the limits of
ES> SS because... delivered Armstrong and a friend to the Moon and back.

Uh-uh, what, all the other Apollos could have flown away?

All the best,
Aleksandr.

ES> Try unplugging the plug from the socket at an angle of 30-45'

Got it.

ES> p.S. By the way. Since people here are so interested in Buran. Here:
ES> 3 pieces, 1 flight in 88. in automatic mode, 105 tons (30 tons
ES> payload), 36x24 m, 2-6 crew members.

Hmm, I heard that there was only one Buran. And that one does not belong to
Russia. Moreover, it received quite good damage when the roof collapsed in a hangar at Baikonur.
There were several prototypes (even flying, but only in the atmosphere).
One life-size model (or maybe not a model, but a finished body)
sold and now it is used as an attraction.
One was at the construction stage (30-50%), but when the Union came kirdyk
The Buran was either dismantled or something else.
And another one was just put into construction.

The information, of course, is unreliable.

ES> Shuttles (for comparison):
ES> 5 pieces, 92 flights in 1988. (1 piece - "Challenger" exploded),
ES> 115 tons (14 tons of payload), 37x24 m, 7 crew members.

ES> Another shuttle will explode - and we will be ahead of the rest.

We are already ahead until spring or mid-2005, as the only ones who can
serially launch people there :)

Today we flew by: in order to destroy the shuttle, 15 grams of insulating foam is enough if it hitssomewhere in the wing...

All the best,
Aleksandr.

SK> API of the system for which they were written. If you don't think this is a problem,
SK> try writing the OS kernel in visual BASIC, for example.

Visual BASIC is too fat on its own. In addition, the same C contains
runtime libs. And Linux does not have any problems with writing kernels.

SK> The problem is that runtime libraries, in turn, are tied to the
SK> API of the system for which they were written. If you don't think this
SK> is a problem, try writing the OS kernel in visual BASIC, for example.

What does VBA have to do with it? Will BCPL suit you as the language in which the lion's share
of the classic AmigaOS is written? And why should he write this when it has already been done more than once? Modern versions of AmigaOS are written purely in C. I don’t understand either: what’s the problem?

VB>> Have you seen AOC?
SK> No.

This is very, very bad. Although seeing her is not enough. You need to smoke it.
And to smoke it, read the ROM Kernel Manual. Moreover, preferably, just
times before you see.. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

January 21, 2005 19:32, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> You know... somehow I don’t want to. I’m not bad here either :)
AM> And since the military registration and enlistment office considered me unfit for vision, I
AM> only got my eyes fixed after I was 28 years old :)

I’m talking about carrots for you, and you’re talking about an excuse for me. :-/ Now time
has gone irrevocably and there is no point in losing it. Otherwise he would tell
stories about how he sent his grandfathers AWOL for 2 months for cognac
. You can no longer develop a commanding voice. You
exchanged it for an extra day off. =)

AM> The information is, of course, unreliable.

I also read such things. I won’t refute it, but the data was taken
from the reference book. Descendants will at least know only this.
They will no longer have to read our newspapers. If then somewhere
they publish something like this, it will be a sensation!

Do you remember: Alexander Nevsky with a bunch of Arabs dispersed a lost
detachment of Livonian knights. Mamai and Babai were actually husband
and wife. The Tale of Igor's Campaign and the Tale of Bygone Years were written by
3 Jews in 3 days. All architectural monuments were built immediately
after the revolution to ensure a glorious cultural history.
They were undermined for authenticity. There was no Mongol-Tatar yoke either. This tale was invented by the courtiers to provide
a glorious heroic story. Pushkin wasin fact
he is a Pole, and his father is a crest. That's why he was friends with gypsies and Caucasians. What else? Oh yes! The earth is flat! =)

AM> We are already ahead until the spring or mid-2005, as the only ones who
AM> can send people there serially :)

Yes?? I didn’t know.

AM> It flew by today: in order to ruin the shuttle, 15 grams of
AM> insulating foam is enough if it hits somewhere on the wing...

Oh! Let's remember Perelman and the problem about the destruction caused
by a pumpkin seed thrown into the windshield of a car, in turn
flying at 100 km/h. The story is real, by the way. 15 grams is
a lot.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

January 21, 2005 19:22, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> Hmm, it seemed to me that they were well known:
AM> 1) the tragedy with Apollo 1
AM> 2) the first landing of man on the Moon
AM> 3) the accident on Apollo 13
AM> :)

No. Well, they had a program. They flew for a reason
to create a heroic culture for America and
to tell about the 'Great Step of All Mankind'.

AM> Uh-uh, what, all the other Apollos could have flown away?

Nope.. Well, I got stuck on the Apollos. Let there be Voyager 13,
if Apollo doesn't like it. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

January 21, 2005 06:25, Timonin Maxim -> Eugene Sobolev:

TM> About Apollo 13, you are in vain. This ship is known for its emergency

[skip]

TM> and is called Apollo 13. So the historical truth will be
TM> cooler than all the fairy tales about the “slants”. :o)

Actually, touching. Some time ago I read a statement by Bush
Senior that the Americans did not land on the moon, in the context of
eternal friendship with democratic Russia. How should we feel about this?
They had all the prerequisites for this. On the other hand,
judging by the budget spent, one might think that if the apples
don’t bloom, then they should have the first base. NASA, on this
occasion, pushed back the story about the lack of prospects for the Moon (wasn’t this immediately clear? When were the soil samples delivered?) I read
again (already on nasa.com) excuses about giving photographs
from Mars a reddish-brown tint so that do not frighten
ordinary people. What color it is depends on the lighting and
it is absolutely not important in reality (as if our eyes
would work differently because of this). I don't believe
inhistorical truth. True
I don’t believe in a complete lie either - it’s painfully expensive, but a half-truth
maybe.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

ES> I’m talking about carrots, and you’re talking about an excuse. :-/ Now time
ES> has gone irrevocably and there is no point in losing it.
ES> And so he would tell stories about how he sent his grandfathers AWOL for 2 months for
ES> cognac
ES>.

What for? As you know, I don’t use alcohol at all.

ES> You won’t be able to develop a commanding voice anymore.

If someone doesn’t get the words spoken in a normal voice, then that’s not
my problem :)

ES> You traded it for an extra day off. =)

Do you think that those who went to the “war” got something from it? :-)

( )

( )

ES> No. Well, they had a program.

Which for some reason they soon abruptly turned around. :)

ES> They didn’t just fly to create a heroic culture for America
ES> and
ES> to tell about the “Great Step of All Mankind”.

Who the hell knows. There is an opinion that America was so eager to go to the Moon in order to
prove that not only the Union is ahead of everyone in space technology.
It’s not for nothing that ours actually abandoned the lunar topic after
Armstrong uttered the second “space phrase” :)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

SK>>>> In general, writing an OS kernel in a high-level language causes
SK>>>> certain problems - applications written in languages ​​such as
SK>>>> are usually tied to the corresponding runtime libraries. Are you proposing to put them
SK>>>> in the kernel of the system too?
VB>>> What’s the problem?
SK>> The problem is that runtime libraries, in turn, are tied to the
SK>> API of the system for which they were written. If you don't think this
SK>> is a problem, try writing the OS kernel in visual BASIC, for example.

VB> In vain.

In vain or not is not the point. The point is that I do not undertake to judge its origin - because I don’t know. It would be good if others did not undertake to judge things that they do not know ;)

--
Good bye,
Sergey

Sent via the Forums server@mail.ru - http://talk.mail.ru

January 22, 2005 20:53, Sergey Krinitsin -> Eugene Sobolev:

SK> Isn’t it fate to read the thread carefully?

Once again. You have an interpreted language = high level.
I don’t. Do you have anything to say in your defense?

SK>>> If you think this is a problem, try writing the OS kernel in visual
SK>>> BASIC, for example.
ES>> What does VBA have to do with it?
SK> Absolutely nothing to do with it. And where do you see the mention of
SK> _VBA_ in the above mentioned text?

Is there a big gender difference between Visual Basic 4 Application and
just VB? VB can of course be compiled. But your executable
will contain something like a pi-code from a blast on the Spectrum
and a call to the library, which you will have to carry
with the program to WinMe.

I ask again, what does this non-language have to do with it? It was possible
to offer Spectrum BASIC, with the same success.

19 Jan 05 11:15, Andrew V. Miheev says to Eugene Sobolev:

AM> No. I didn't draw any conclusions. I just _guessed_. Remembering the film about
AM> the hijacking of a MiG (the 29th, it seems) to Japan and about the stories about how our
AM> implemented onboard radar electronics using lamps in a “hot” case (in

It’s true. There was a lamp in a metal case, the size of a liter
jar. I personally saw it. The radar was engaged in blind landing of the aircraft.

With this The story is connected with the lamp, when during tests the lamps began to fail one after another and none of the developers could understand what was wrong until they sent one to the airfield. There he found out that the pilots, having discovered the colossal margin of safety of the aircraft, did not particularly care about the “cleanliness” of the landing, removing the thrust completely at an altitude of 10-15 meters. Such a fall did not harm the aircraft, and the lamps. dead....

/// Mindlin
Roman Mindlin, MCP, MOS. ICQ UIN 8-=7=-5-=6=-5-=4=-4
...Interhelp BBS - Saint-Petersburg, RUSSIA.

ES> Really? And what is he? How I was already swayed by these
ES> reasoning about a phrase I once read somewhere..

And in some ways he is right. C can be considered a kind of “middle” level language. Or,
more precisely, a mixture of Java and ASMA.
After all, you can do everything on it that can be done in Java, plus there are
"low-level" capabilities that are not in Java.
Probably C can be called a "high-level portable assembler" :)

All the best,
Aleksandr.

January 22, 2005 14:04, Aleksandr Majorov -> Eugene Sobolev:

AM> What for? As you know, I don’t drink alcohol at all.

It’s known, it’s known. In this matter, you are deeply wrong.. =)

AM> If someone doesn’t get the words spoken in a normal voice, then
AM> that’s not my problem :)

With the increase in the number of people under your command
the “normal voice” atrophies.

AM> Do you think that those who went to the “war” got something from it? :-)

Depends on the position of the department. In general, you can get a lot.
From frostbitten appendages (or what have we got there?) or deadlines, to
an invitation to an interview with the FSB or useful skills
knowledge.

AM> So we’ve been ahead of everyone for a long time, as Columbia went bust.
AM> Now we’re just launching people into orbit :)
AM> There’s also China, but they’ve only launched one person, and so far not
AM> they can launch yet - they are only preparing...

Yes?! What was the name of Gagarin from the Middle Kingdom, the apparatus?

AM> So this is protective foam (the one that ruined Columbia), it
AM> should fall off the hell at the very moment of launch. And the carrier
AM> IMHO starts at a speed lower than 100 km/h :)

Probably should form a film, which subsequently
contributes to something (like our"stealth"). Elegant
solution. The mentioned “stealth” ones were painted by hand before each
launch, until the Union collapsed. But this is a solvable problem.
In general, well done for figuring this out.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AM> Which for some reason they soon abruptly turned around. :)

She operated for at least 5 years. Don't worry about it!

AM> Who knows. There is an opinion that America was so eager to go to the Moon in order
AM> to prove that not only the Union is ahead of everyone in space technology.
AM> It’s not for nothing that ours actually abandoned the lunar topic after
AM> Armstrong uttered the second “space phrase” :)

As far as I remember, the hopeless task was set to be the first
to land on the Moon. Hopeless because time
(about 10 years) was lost and there was no data that could be obtained
only experimentally. The reliability
of the theoretical calculations was considered dubious.
Part of the data was provided by intelligence, a lot of funds were poured in
; monstrously tight schedule and complete isolation.
Shock Stakhanov work. But the USSR did not have time and curtailed
its program within a week (during which
the investigation was conducted) after the phrase. With the exception of key figures, all
participants ended up, some just on the street, some on the stage
. And for America the programs of the series
of the notorious "Star Wars" were valid. The “big step” in the minds of our
command threatened in the future with inaccessible
complexes on the Moon aimed at the Kremlin. And this is already
no joke. Heads rolled. Although common sense would require
to continue the program with redoubled enthusiasm, our
state apparatus worked exclusively using the method
of purges/Stakhanovite efforts. The effectiveness of which was
amazing.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AM> And in some ways he is right. C can be considered a kind of “middle” level language.
AM> Or, more precisely, a mixture of Java and ASMA. After all, you can do everything on it
AM> that
AM> can be done in Java, plus there are “low-level” capabilities that
AM> are not in Java. Perhaps C can be called a “high-level portable assembler” :)

Is Forth one of these languages? Is Perl one of these languages?
And finally, is Java one of these languages? The fact is that
the listed languages ​​also have all the capabilities of C for
operations with memory, stack, etc. And they are subject to translation
into C and back. Isn’t all this also YA? I can also remember Oberon,
E, D, but hardly anyone here had anything to do with them.. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

ES> Probably should form a film, which subsequently
ES> contributes to something (like our “stealth” devices). Elegant
ES> solution. The mentioned “stealth” ones were painted by hand before each
ES> launch, until the Union collapsed. But this is a solvable problem.
ES> In general, well done for figuring this out.

Heh, figuring it out after the device was screwed up (and precisely because of this foam)
is that great?
And the fact that in the process of checking the shuttles they found out that there were some kind of emergency
brakes (it was written there in the news :) or something like that
intended to save the crew in an accident at the start there were generally structurally non-working ones. It’s good that they were never needed.

All the best,
Aleksandr.

ES> As far as I remember, the hopeless task was set to be the first
ES> to land on the Moon. Hopeless because time
ES> (about 10 years) was lost and there was no data that could be obtained
ES> only experimentally.

Hmm, it seemed to me that ours and the Americans began the landing project at about the same time.
And if it weren’t for the failure with the H-1 rocket, we would have been the first on the Moon.
Although our device was inferior to the American one. And there were only two of us in the crew.
One remained in orbit, and the prize... only one was supposed to land on the moon.

( )
ES> Part of the data was provided by intelligence, a lot of funds were pumped in
ES>; a monstrously tight schedule and complete isolation.

Hmm, didn’t America have complete isolation?

( )
ES> the notorious “Star Wars”. The “big step” in the minds of our
ES> command threatened in the future with inaccessible
ES> complexes on the Moon aimed at the Kremlin. And this is
ES> no joke.

Wait, what’s so scary about rockets on the Moon?
Their flight time will be incredibly long, you can have time
to take various measures.

All the best,
Aleksandr.

ES> Is Forth one of these languages?

I haven’t dealt with it, so I don’t know.

ES> Perl is one of these languages?

The abbreviation Perl stands for Practical Extraction and Report Language.
Ie. _by_definition_ does not apply. But now they have shoved all sorts of different things into Pearl, so the skip knows it.
However, Pearl is (mostly) used as an interpreted language.

ES> And, finally, is Java one of such languages?

Java seems to need a Java machine? Or does it already know how to compile into machine
code?

ES> The fact is that
ES> the listed languages ​​also have all the capabilities of C in
ES> operations with memory, stack, etc. And they are subject to translation
ES> into C and back.

Indeed, “translations in C”.
Is it possible to write and compile a program on these, which for its work
did not require any OS or interpreter at all?
And without preliminary conversion to C, and then... :-)

I know that such a thing can be done, but has such a thing been done?
Ihm, these languages are still somewhat highly specialized.
Well perhaps excluding Java, which is promoted as also a cross-platform language. But it still requires a Java machine to work.

Totalgood,
Aleksandr.

ES> Is there a big gender difference between Visual Basic 4 Application and
ES> just VB?

Naturally.

ES> VB can of course be compiled.

It's not just that. There is a difference in using COM. For example, try to write an application in VB using something like MSWINSCK.OCX, and then transfer this application to VBA.

ES> But your executable will contain something like a pi-code from a blast on the Spectrum
ES> and a call to the library, which you will have to carry with the program before WinMe.

Well, there’s no need to mix everything together. Starting from version 5, VB could generate, in addition to
p-code, native code. Yes, this native code was tied to a runtime library,
but in C/C++ it is also tied to a runtime library by default. The difference is
that in C you can make it so that this library is not used, but in VB it is not.

ES> I ask again, what does this non-language have to do with it? It was possible
ES> to offer Spectrum BASIC, with the same success.

Why was it necessary to offer BASIC as a language for writing an OS? I didn’t pull VB’s tongue :)

AM> Does Zhava seem to need a Zhava machine? Or does it already know how to compile into
AM> machine code?

Needed. And he drags himself along everywhere.

AM> Wow, “translations in C”.
AM> Is it possible to write and compile a program on these that, for its
AM> work, does not require any OS or
AM> interpreter at all? And without preliminary conversion to C, and then
AM> already... :-)

Yes, yes, you're right! =) Not possible. But not really. For Forth, this
is just possible.

AM> I know that this can be done in general, but has it been done?
AM> Well, these languages ​​are still somewhat highly specialized.
AM> Well, perhaps excluding Java, which is promoted as also
AM> a cross-platform language. But it still requires a Java machine to work.

A bunch of compilers have been written for Forth, including Forth itself.
Now in fido7.ru.amiga, one friend is just writing a new
Forth compiler on Forth.. =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AM> The device was called “Heavenly Boat” or “Magic Boat” (there were 2
AM> translation options). His number was... I think it was 3rd or 5th. Still
AM> it’s more likely the 5th.

They’ve definitely lost their imagination for centuries.

AM> Heh, figuring it out after the device has screwed up (and precisely because of this
AM> foam) - well done? And the fact that in the process of checking the shuttles they found out
AM> that
AM> some kind of emergency brakes (it was written there in the news :) or something
AM> like that, intended to save the crew in case of an accident at the launch
AM> were generally structurally inoperative. It’s good that they were never needed
AM>.

I think that he was screwed up not only because of this foam. More likely due to
depressurization of some unit, and foam acts as a catalyst. If
they carried out 92 starts with 5 cars by 1988, then they probably know their
machines inside and out? Airplanes also often break down due to wear and tear. For us, including passengers.
It’s generally scary for me to look at these carcasses with cracked windows that
are flying now. In several cities
they set up (from hearsay, however) aircraft dumps right
not far from the runway. Well done!

And debriefing always takes place after an accident. Until your software fails, you may not even know thatsomething
is wrong. 2 years - the flight is normal, and then on you...
Conditions have developed. No, honestly, foam is not the most intuitive reason. As far as I read,
when they analyzed the recording of the launch frame by frame, they saw elements of the fuselage flying off
. Well, they flew off. This doesn't say anything
except that they did it? Maybe
there was excess voltage there.. Is this a design
miscalculation or a technological one? X his Z, as they say.
Maybe someone spat on that record before the start and
that was the last straw for her. Many unsuccessful
starts remain without explanation at all. In rocket science
there are too many empirical quantities that can only be obtained experimentally
to say anything for sure.

p.S. Emergency brakes are strong! Where is the stop valve
on an airplane? But I didn’t guess right! =)

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)

AM> Hmm, didn’t America have complete isolation?

I can’t say anything about America! I wasn’t there,
I didn’t read anything about them except Denikin, in childhood.
I can only estimate, starting from what
I know. Or report some facts known to me.
Germany had the most severe isolation, I can
say that. We didn’t dream of the USSR.

AM> Wait, what’s so scary about rockets on the Moon?
AM> Their flight time will be simply brutally long, you can have time
AM> to take various measures.

Yes. But then it seemed that 2-3 years would pass and there would be compact combat lasers and photon missiles. The Star Wars project
, according to the reviews of our former generals
, was thoroughly imbued with such enthusiasm. Of course
the Americans were afraid of us. But the fact that we were not afraid
of the Americans, imho, would be wrong. This is our
potential enemy according to our own doctrine
(until recently). We are their potential adversary
to this day. It may be correct to consider
that the programs were curtailed for the most part
thanks to the defusing of this atmosphere with previously unknown
information... I can’t presume to say how historically
this was possible, I don’t presume to say.

... aGGreSSor^tPA (http://amitrans.narod.ru)