Project PENTAGON-1024 SL

AR>> Very stupid and inappropriate sarcasm! The person says that the Speckie
AR>> should remain “no worse” than it was before with all these upgrades.
AM> Really? We came to the conclusion that chips with large
AM> integration are harmful for Speck, because it becomes impossible to understand “what bits are running on the
AM> bus at a particular moment in time.”
AM> And without knowing this, a spektrumist is no longer a spektrumist.

:) Do you already consider Rob F.-a to be a classic? Soon his posts will be like HEMO letters. “Did you understand what you said?” (C) vvputin

AM> Have they already canceled the sockets for chips?

There are no sockets for many of them. :(

AM> If you don’t look at special chips (specially ordered for something),
AM> then the chip will be in one of the standard packages. And a custom chip can also
AM> be in a standard package.
AM> And there are sockets for them, not so expensive. And there are already
AM> pins sticking out of the beds - take them and solder them.

Myth.

AM> ( )
AR>> Well, the second problem with using these new embedded
AR>> microcontrollers in ZX is of course their price.
AM> Yes, these microcontrollers are not that expensive.

What exactly are you talking about? I recently saw a note on ixbt about AMD alchemy
au1200 (>$20 per unit in batches starting from 10,000 - this means that insingle copies, it’s good if the price doesn’t exceed $100).

AR>> Apparently no one will be able to make a ZX board at least
AR>> at the same price as the NEW MODERN ASUS BOARD for PEC. :(
AM> Most likely the reason is that no one needs it. :(

in the West there is a C1 we had(?) Sprinter is proof that we need
this. There are attempts. No luck yet.

Regards.

AR> Which one are you talking about exactly? I recently saw a note on ixbt about AMD
AR> alchemy au1200 (>$20 per piece in batches of 10,000 - this means that in
AR> single copies it’s good if the price does not exceed $100).

If you engage in mass production of devices where such
chips are needed, then 10,000 pieces will be needed.

AM> If you are engaged in mass production of devices that require such
AM> chips, then 10,000 pieces will be needed.

If you have plans (and accordingly the money for such plans is about $1,000,000)
for mass production of consumer electronics, then you are probably better off going to
Taiwan or Korea. And here is an echo type for enthusiasts who are not averse to making
something for themselves in single copies (agree, a little not what you
need).

AR> Since you and I are talking about this, then you and I at least need this.

You know, we can talk about a lot of things. We can talk for a long time and beautifully.
But it will be of little use.
We need not to talk, but to do.
Yes, it’s expensive to upgrade Speck. But, as was already said once: Speck is
a hobby for the rich...

AR> And other facts indirectly indicate that there is a certain interest
AR> among the
AR> people both in the exUSSR and overseas. (Commodore One, Mediator, Sprinter - this is
AR, what do you think?)

( )

AM> How then does the quality control department check these chips?

Well, what kind of question is this? Maybe you still don’t understand how the chips in the BGA package on the board communicate with the tracks? Take any mobile phone and you will see that you can “climb”
with an oscilloscope only to the specially located contact pads itself
the embeeded controller bus is hidden under the case and inside the PCB, not to mention the fact that it is some kind of “criminal” in the I2C style. Where do you particularly
approach?

AM> Oh well? This means that everyone is not averse to doing something, but for some reason no one
AM> is doing anything...
AM> Strange.

Yeah. And what they did didn’t make me personally very happy.

AM> Well, let’s look at the example of Sprinter. Not that many of them were sold.
AM> Why?
AM> And they listened to the needs and were ready to give out computers almost free
AM> to potential software writers.

:) apparently everything is not as smooth as you imagine. Read the posts over the years and
you will see that the $120 price is far from the only problem with the Sprinter.

Regards.

AR> :) apparently everything is not as smooth as you draw. Read the posts over many years
AR> and you will be convinced that the price of $120 is far from the only problem with Sprinter.
And it’s even better to read Nemo - he vilified Sprinter so much, it won’t seem enough :-)
People were not ready for Sprinter, many still believe that it is an emulator.
A verbal agreement has now been reached to transfer the Sprinter project to the
NedoPS group. But so far the process is quite slow.

NedoPC group. Sprinter2k, ATM Turbo2+. http://chunin.infpres.com/

I am responding to your letter dated January 13, 2005, then I wrote to Sergey Krinitsin
to Alex Fill, and then it was 23:26:49.

( )
AF>> and Windows was made in the Amiga back in 1986, and they sold it just for the sake of
AF>> entertainment, and
AF>> some “uncle” came and from a really multi-tasking system made a multi-tasking, but insanely slow system.

SK> Is this a hint at Windows? :)
SK> Then I have to disappoint you - the AmigaOS you love so much has nothing to do with it
SK> sideways - the 9x line came from MS-DOS, NT - from the half-axis.

Well, the fact that the “Windows graphical interface” was communized from somewhere is
already known. Just not from the Amiga.

( )
SK> “The “C” language, originally intended for writing the
SK> operating system “UNIX” on the DEC PDP-11 computer, was developed-
SK> and implemented on this system by Dennis Ritchie.”

SK> Now try to rack your brains and think where UNIX would be now if
SK> it had been written on ASM'e.

The 1st version of Unix was written in ASMA :)
After rewriting it in C, it became 20 percent larger in size and
10 percent slower. (Well, only they had such a compiler :)
But the question needs to be asked differently:
where would almost all operating systems be now if there were no C?

( )
AF>> It’s very simple,guys in masks come and say your casino
AF>> has been arrested, and first of all they will go digging into the reports. Do you
AF>> think they will break your database? That's why you write DBMS, and
AF>> we do database work.

SK> That is. did you use non-certified cryptographic algorithms to encrypt
SK> databases?
SK> In this case, the director of the casino will have to bear responsibility for their
SK> use.

This question also interested me...
True, I could not find a description of the laws on this topic on the Internet. More precisely, most likely I found it, but I didn’t understand the Ukrainian language :)
Shouldn’t SBU representatives, at the stage of “checking” this database, first of all show certificates and all that stuff?

( )
AF>> But practice shows that everything that flew on Fortran and similar ones
AF>> very quickly fell back to the ground. Apparently the force of 9.8g turned out to be more powerful
AF>> FORIKOV and VASIKOV.

SK> Oh yes, a computer of the 1954 model is not capable of lifting any existing
SK> launch vehicle into space :)

5 points! :-))))

All the best,
Aleksandr.

AR> Well, what kind of question is this? Maybe you still don’t understand how the chips in the BGA
AR> package on the board communicate with the tracks? Take and disassemble any mobile phone and you will see that
AR> you can “climb” with an oscilloscope there only to specially located contact
AR> pads

I’m not asking about how to check the chip already in the device, but how to check
the chip itself without soldering it into the device!
So they grew wafers with chips, so they assembled the chips.
As you know, out of 1000 chips there are a few originally defective. So you need
to check them.
The simplest option is to insert the chip into the stand and check.
But since, as you assure, there are no beds for these cases, then
this question arises.

AR> the embeeded controller bus itself is hidden under the case and inside
AR> PCB not to mention the fact that it is some kind of “thieves” in the I2C style where
AR> are you especially there can you approach?

You can’t approach I2C? “But the men don’t know” (c).

AM> This question also interested me...
AM> True, I could not find descriptions of laws on this topic on the internet. More precisely
AM> most likely found it, but did not understand the Ukrainian language :)
AM> Shouldn’t at the stage of “checking” this database, representatives of the SBU in
AM> first of all show certificates and all that stuff?

Well, the Ukrainian language is not so different from Russian that it would not be understood ;)
This is what their laws say:

"Software developer when used in information system of cryptographic protection methods must have a license from the department of special telecommunication systems and information protection of the Security Service of Ukraine (hereinafter referred to as DSTSZI SBU) for activities in the field of technical information protection and cryptographic information protection, as well as certificates from DSTSZI SBU for the methods of cryptographic information protection used."

I.e. just using _certified_ algorithms is not enough, you also need a license from the SBU, that
you are also using them _correctly ;))

--
Good bye,
Sergey

Sent via the Forums server@mail.ru - http://talk.mail.ru

CR> And it’s even better to read Hemo - he vilified Sprinter so much, it doesn’t seem a little
CR> :-) People were not ready for Sprinter, many still believe that he
CR> is an emulator. Now a verbal agreement has already been reached to transfer the project
CR> Sprinter to the Nedops group. But so far the process is moving quite slowly.

People! Tell me, in which of his letters, or series of letters, Nemo criticized Sprinter! I would really like to read it, but it’s not possible to rummage through hundreds of his letters in dozens of collections. Interested in more or less detailed
criticism. Until now, I have only once come across Skutin's mention of Sprinter, where he, casually during a conversation on a slightly different topic, mentioned the subject in one phrase, calling it a profanation of the Spectrum idea. If somewhere
there is his detailed argumentation, then I will read it with pleasure... :o)

Maxagor. NedoPC group. PC ATM-turbo 2+

SK>> it would have been written in ASM.
AM> The 1st version of Unix was written in ASMA :) After rewriting it in C
AM> it became 20 percent larger in size and 10 percent slower.
AM> (Well, they only had such a compiler :) But the question needs to be asked
AM> differently:
AM> where would almost all operating systems be now if there were no C?

In ALGOL, Fortran, Forte, Lisp, ADA, COBOL, etc. On pascal and vasik, in the end.

WBR, Vladimir Berezenko AKA Q-Master q_mast...@mail.ru
ICQ #84695765

CR> Nothing strange, because no one buys what you do (because it costs
CR> more than a bottle of beer). And free factories for the production of PP have long ceased to exist and the production of PP costs quite an oval
CR> amount. And
CR> to use the listed microcontrollers, you also need a programmer
CR> that costs nothing and software that costs even less...

So I’ll tell you what. Look how the bourgeoisie do business. Individual computers
for example. They even live from it!!! They enter into agreements with developers and then
promote this product. At the same time, the Iroko use the practice of taking money in advance and pre-orders. Why is this impossible in Russia? As a last resort, enter into an agreement with the same Individual computers if you can’t promote the product yourself.
(They will probably be able to help with production).

CR> It’s even better to read Nemo - he vilified Sprinter so much, it won’t seem like much :-)
CR> People were not ready for Sprinter, many still believe that he is an emulator.
CR> A verbal agreement on the transfer has now already been reached project Sprinter
CR> group
CR> Nedops. But so far the process is progressing quite slowly.

Let's see what comes of it.

Regards.

AM> I’m not asking about how to check the chip already in the device, but how to check
AM> the chip itself, without soldering it into the device!
AM> So we grew wafers with chips, now we assembled the chips.
AM> As you know, out of 1000 chips, several were initially defective. So you need
AM> to check them.
AM> Yes, the simplest option is to insert the chip into the stand and check.
AM> But since, as you assure, there are no cribs for these cases, then
AM> and
AM> this question arises.

Well, you know, there are not just such “cribs” in this world. And even the launch vehicle
"Energy"!!!
So what? We're talking here about the prospects for using new chips in future home
computers and not about the capabilities of Taiwanese factories.

Regards.

SK>>> "The C language, originally intended for writing the operating
SK>>> operating system "UNIX" on the DEC PDP-11 computer, was developed and implemented on this
SK>>> system by Dennis Ritchie."
SK>>> Now try to rack your brains and think about where UNIX would be now if
SK>>> it had been written on ASM.
AM>> The 1st version of Unix was written in ASMA :) After rewriting it in C
AM>> it became 20 percent larger in size and 10 percent slower.
AM>> (Well, they only had such a compiler :) But the question needs to be asked
AM>> otherwise:
AM>> where would almost all OSes be now if it weren’t for S?

AM> I heard something different. "Winda", i.e. GUI windows
AM> appeared long before the advent of CP/M at Bell Labs on a machine with a
AM> Lisp processor. The idea was to give each
AM> program its own I/O window. And everything else is borrowed precisely from this
AM> primary idea.

Well, if we consider that “Winda” is just two “places” of input into one
control program - then there were a ton of examples of large computers with terminals larger than
1st.

Regards.

AR> So I’ll tell you what. Look how the bourgeoisie do business. Individual
AR> computers for example. They even live from it!!! They enter into agreements with
AR> developers and then promote this product. At the same time, the Iroko use
AR> the practice of taking money in advance and pre-orders. Why is this impossible in
AR> Russia? As a last resort, enter into an agreement with the same Individual computers
AR> if you cannot promote the product yourself. (Surely they will be able to help with
AR> production).

This makes the product even more expensive!
And we ourselves practice prepayment, and honestly fulfill our obligations.

Special thanks for distributing information about NedoPC group products and
promoting it:
Alexander Shushkov
Evgeniy Ilyasov
Adrian Oboroc
Vladimir Bulchukei
Dmitry Bystrov
Roman Mindlin

Gentlemen, if you place an advertisement in your periodical or
newspaper, then help us. Still, we are the only producers of a
Spectrum clone at the moment.

AR> Let's see what comes of it.
I'm interested myself :-)

With respect!

> AM> I’m not asking about how to check the chip already in the device, but how to check
> AM> the chip itself, without soldering it into the device!
> AM> So we grew wafers with chips, here we assembled the chips.
> AM> As you know, out of 1000 chips, several were initially defective. So you need
> AM> to check them.