CD player for smuc

Does anyone present have a subject? Does it even exist in nature?
If it exists, please give me a hint, please...

With best wishes, Alexander Vlasov.

AV> nature?
Does it exist.

AV> If it exists, throw me a hint, please-ah-ah...
It has flown.

The author of this himself lives here. :)
Only there you need a special CD-ROM, and not just any one you get. You need an ATAPI standard, not an ATAPI-compatible one. I checked it myself. Only 1 device out of several offered came into use. :( And what’s strange is that ASUS 52x went, but Mitsumi 24x didn’t. I
didn’t understand why... Also, Samsung 4-12x didn’t go. So look for
CD-rom. :))

E-mail: zs...@nm.ru ~/ <~ http://www.zx.ru/zs/
ZXNet: 500:8462/1 /_ _> ftp://zx-museum.org.ru/zs/

SZ> It flew away.
SZ> The author of this himself lives here. :)
SZ> Only there you need a special CD-ROM, and not just any one you get. You need an ATAPI
SZ> standard,
SZ> and not an ATAPI-compatible one. I checked it myself. Only 1 device out of
SZ> several
SZ> offered went. :( And what’s strange is that ASUS 52x went, but Mitsumi 24x didn’t.
SZ> I
SZ> didn’t understand why... Also, Samsung 4-12x didn’t work. So
SZ> look for a CD-rom. :))

IMHO, it doesn’t depend on the CD-ROM, but on the program. ALL IDE CDs are
ATAPI, and all of them. Here, apparently, the commands are given to him crookedly, so not
everyone works.

WBR, Vladimir Berezenko AKA Q-Master q_mast...@mail.ru
ICQ #84695765

One day on Monday, April 23, 2001 at 23:16:33 Sergey Zotov wrote
a letter to Alexander Vlasov about the CD Player for smuc:

SZ> Only there you need a special CD-ROM, and not just any one you get.
SZ> You need an ATAPI standard, not an ATAPI-compatible one.

Why? right? Is it specific to SMUC or specific to
existing programs?

SZ> I checked it on myself. Only 1 device out of several
SZ> offered went through. :( And what’s strange is that ASUS 52x went, but
SZ> Mitsumi 24x didn’t. I didn’t understand why... Also, Samsung 4-12x didn’t go. So look for a CD-rom. :))

I remember that earlier the problem was discussed with reading software packages. How are things going with this now? Is there any thread that can copy files from CD?

I wish you good luck!
Sincerely, Fyodor Odegov.

E-mail: zs...@nm.ru ~/ <~ http://www.zx.ru/zs/
ZXNet: 500:8462/1 /_ _> ftp://zx-museum.org.ru/zs/

FO> What's the situation with this? Is there some kind of file copier from CD?

Yes.
Authors: Vlad Sotnikov (500:812/8.9) and Pavel Vasilyeu (500:812/8.29).
It has not been released for more than a year, for one single reason:
with each new cd-rom I have some problems.
The problem is mainly in the temporary spaces between atapi packages.
It seems impossible to find an ideal operating algorithm
suitable for any cd-rom. It will have to be released with firewood
for a specific model.

2all: who can tell how the firewood differs from different cd-roms?
set of available commands? pause/wait for flags?

Enjoy your connections, Fyodor...

... ┌─[ZX]─>─[SPbZXNet]─┬─[FIDONet]─>─[INet]─>─[ZXNet]─>─[ZX]─┐

Yes.
Authors: Vlad Sotnikov (500:812/8.9) and Pavel Vasilyeu (500:812/8.29).
It has not been released for more than a year, for one single reason:
with each new cd-rom some problems arise.
Mainly the problem is in the temporary spaces between atapi packages.
It seems impossible to find an ideal operating algorithm
suitable for any cd-rom. It will have to be produced with firewood
for a specific model.

VB> are given, so not all of them work.

Error.
Commands are issued strictly according to the documentation, and not from the bullshit.
Each individual cd-rom, of different releases, reacts differently, in its own way, to the same operating algorithm.
Also, not all cd-roms support a documented set of
atapi commands. First of all, any cd-rom is an
ata device. And only secondarily does it support a
_specific_ set of atapi packages for a specific model.
Medium-speed CD-ROMs are what infuriate me the most. They are clearly “on their own minds” - it is simply impossible to find out what he is doing at a particular moment in time. Until they work out certain actions known to them alone (sometimes more than a minute passes!) they cannot be interrupted in any way. Also, they couldn’t figure out the launched
blanks - they take a very long time to be detected, and
how to deal with it is not clear.

In truth, that document cannot be called full-fledged. Everyone has seen this document,
it is easy to find, since it is the only one in Russian... ;-(
I corresponded with the author of the document himself, here are his words:

╒═══< Begin file: 812-0800.m >══════════
*area : NETMAIL
*from : Konstantin Norvatoff
*to : Mihail Zharov (500:812/8)
*subj : ATAPI(IDE) CD
*date : 31-07-00
*time : 22:06:53

Hello Mihail!

Sunday, 30th, July 2000,
Mihail Zharov writes a letter toKonstantin Norvatoff:

MZ> But experiments have shown the strong capriciousness of the driver/software
MZ> on different CD-ROMs (IDE, ATAPI).

This is true. Many drives set readiness, interrupt, etc. signals slightly differently. However,
if you ignore the different early-crooked drives, then you can find
general, more or less working algorithms.

MZ> given. In Russian, everywhere only your document lies, there are simply no others;) In English they found only all sorts of nonsense.

Unfortunately, my exercises with the CD-ROM successfully ended
3 years ago and there is no more recent information (the last version
of the description was in March or April 1997). However, about a year ago, in the depths of the kiae ftp server, I saw a standard in atapi (in
English). If sclerosis serves me correctly, the request codes are described there very
superficially, but the mechanism of exchange in various modes is described in quite detail.

MZ> Is it possible to help us?

I can’t help “at all.” If there is some specific
problem, then maybe it will be possible to solve it. But the last time I programmed on the Z80 was about 7-8 years ago and not for the ZX. So
here I also have a gap in knowledge.

PS/ And I still don’t understand - why connect a CD to the ZX? We'll have to
write a driver for ISO9660, and this is a more difficult task than a lower-level driver.

With the deepest respect,

Konstantin

PGP F/S: 61 37 E8 7C 62 21 28 9D FC D0 7B 9F FB 2A 39 79
-+- GoldED 2.50+
*--- .PKT to .ZXN GATE
* * Origin: (2:5030/163.44)
╘═══< End file: 812-0800.m >════════════

By the way, the first support for iso9660 was written by scientific poking - without any documentation. We haven’t even heard of the name of this ;) It’s crooked, of course, but it worked on _one_
company, the files downloaded. It didn’t work on the other one ;) Then they
helped us with the docking and immediately all the other random cds became visible.
And it wasn’t difficult. But I still can’t figure out the temporary huts and the flags of the
cd-rom themselves. It is necessary to make a lot of firewood for specific models. Sucks. Offtopic.

I wonder how such problems were solved on Sprinter?
Or they weren’t, and not every CD-rom can be seen either.
Gee. We wrote a compiler of foreign firewood... ;)))

Pleasant connections, Vladimir...

Wednesday April 25, 2001, at 08:03:35,
Vladimir Berezenko -> Sergey Zotov:

AV>>> If there is one, throw me a hint, please-ah-ah...
SZ>> It flew.
SZ>> The author of this himself lives here. :)
SZ>> Only there you need a special CD-ROM, and not just any one you come across.
SZ>> You need an ATAPI standard,
SZ>> and not an ATAPI-compatible one. I checked it myself. Only 1
SZ>> device went through out of several
SZ>> offered. :( And what’s strange is that ASUS 52x went, but didn’t go
SZ>> Mitsumi 24x.
SZ>> I didn’t understand why... Also, Samsung and
SZ>> 4-12x didn’t work. So
SZ>> look for CD-rom. :))
VB> IMHO, it doesn’t depend on the CD-ROM, but on the program. ALL CDs
VB> IDE are
VB> ATAPI, and all of them. Here, apparently, commands are given to it crookedly
VB>, so not all of them work.

Error.
Commands are given strictly according to the documentation, and not from the bullshit.
Each individual cd-rom, of different releases, reacts differently, in its own way, to the same operating algorithm.
Also, not all cd-roms support a documented set of
atapi commands. First of all, any cd-rom is an
ata device. And only secondarily does it support a
_specific_ set of atapi packages for a specific model.
Medium-speed CD-ROMs are what infuriate me the most. Theyclearly
“on his mind” - it is simply impossible to find out what he is doing at a particular moment in time. Until they work out certain actions known to them alone (sometimes more than a minute passes!) they cannot be interrupted in any way. Also, they couldn’t figure out the launched
blanks - they take a very long time to be detected, and
how to deal with it is not clear.

In truth, that document cannot be called full-fledged. Everyone has seen this document,
it is easy to find, since it is the only one in Russian... ;-(
I corresponded with the author of the document himself, here are his words:

╒═══< Begin file: 812-0800.m >══════════
*area : NETMAIL
*from : Konstantin Norvatoff
*to : Mihail Zharov (500:812/8)
*subj : ATAPI(IDE) CD
*date : 31-07-00
*time : 22:06:53

Hello Mihail!

Sunday, 30th, July 2000,
Mihail Zharov writes a letter to Konstantin Norvatoff:

MZ> But experiments have shown the strong capriciousness of the driver/software
MZ> on different CD-ROMs (IDE, ATAPI).

This is indeed true. find
general, more or less working algorithms.

MZ> they gave. In Russian, only your documentation is everywhere, there are simply no other
MZ> ;) In English they found only all sorts of nonsense.

Unfortunately, my exercises were from a CD-ROM.successfully completed
3 years ago and there is no more recent information (the last version
of the description was in March or April of '97). However, about a year ago, in the depths of the kiae ftp server, I saw a standard in atapi (in
English). If sclerosis serves me correctly, the request codes are described there very
superficially, but the mechanism of exchange in various modes is described in quite detail.

MZ> Is it possible to help us?

I can’t help “at all.” If there is some specific
problem, then maybe it will be possible to solve it. But the last time I programmed on the Z80 was about 7-8 years ago and not for the ZX. So
here I also have a gap in knowledge.

PS/ And I still don’t understand - why connect a CD to the ZX? We'll have to
write a driver for ISO9660, and this is a more complicated task than a lower-level driver.

With deepest respect,

Konstantin

PGP F/S: 61 37 E8 7C 62 21 28 9D FC D0 7B 9F FB 2A 39 79
-+- GoldED 2.50+
*--- .PKT to .ZXN GATE
* * Origin: (2:5030/163.44)
╘═══< End file: 812-0800.m >════════════

By the way, the first support for iso9660 was written using the scientific method - without any documentation. We haven’t even heard of the name of this ;) It’s crooked, of course, but it worked on _one_
company, the files downloaded. It didn’t work on the other one ;) Then they
helped us with the docking and immediately all the other random ones became visiblecd.
And it wasn't difficult. But I still can’t figure out the temporary huts and the flags of the
cd-rom themselves. It is necessary to make a lot of firewood for specific models. Sucks. Offtopic.

I wonder how such problems were solved on Sprinter?
Or they weren’t, and not every CD-rom can be seen either.
Gee. We wrote a compiler of foreign firewood... ;)))

Pleasant connections, Vladimir...

... ┌─[ZX]─>─[SPbZXNet]─┬─[FIDONet]─>─[INet]─>─[ZXNet]─>─[ZX]─┐

[Killed.]
VB> IMHO, this does not depend on the CD-ROM, but on the program. ALL
VB> IDE CDs are
VB> ATAPI, and all of them. Here, apparently, commands are given to him crookedly
VB>, so not all
VB> work.
If the author appears here in the echo, then let him explain. :) I just retold what was written to me. And you're wrong about ATAPI. There are several standards
(numbered, it seems). And on some CDs it is written not ATAPI-4 interface,
for example, but ATAPI compartible, which is far from the same thing. :) Compatibility does not mean analogue. :) Look at the Spectrum clones, for example.

Good people! Write me a subzhik, please. Or in the echo?

See you, All.

With best wishes, Kirill Gavrilenko.

I was wiping the kinescope with a damp cloth, I suddenly saw
Sergey Zotov talking with Vladimir Berezenko on the topic "Re: CD player for smuc"

SZ> And about ATAPI you are wrong. There are several standards
SZ> (numbered, it seems). And on some CDs it is written not ATAPI-4
interface,
SZ> for example, but ATAPI compartible, which is far from the same thing. :) Compatibility
SZ> does not mean analogue. :) Look at the Spectrum clones, for example.

No, the atapi base is the same everywhere, it’s just that further clones of this interface
support extended commands. The basis remains the same, so that old drivers
can work with new models, but without using all the features of the new device.
In order to make the disk play/stop/back/forward... you can perfectly
use the basic commands (packets) of the atapi interface.
Now, if the author used any new command packages when writing the player
, then this fully explains its instability on different models of CD drives.

Really? It works for me with just about anything. Or maybe it’s just a different player?

FO> Why is that so? Does this come down specifically to SMUC or to the features
FO> of existing programs?

SMUC has nothing to do with it. In terms of the electrical connection, everything is fine there.

[...]

FO> I remember that earlier the problem was discussed with reading software packages. Now
FO> how are things going with this? Is there any copier for files from CD?

Yes. Damp, but there.

WBR, Jason.

[Team Obituary][Team Friday 13th][Team Evil Maniacs][Team Huge Axes]

In a message of 27 Apr 01 Mihail Zharov wrote to Fyodor Odegov:

MZ> It seems impossible to find an ideal operating algorithm
MZ> suitable for any cd-rom. We'll have to release
MZ> with firewood for a specific model.

oh well. look, on the Amiga, any ide cd-rom plows without any firewood.

MZ> 2all: who can tell how firewood differs from different cd-roms?
MZ> set of available commands? pauses/waiting for flags?

some of its own features.

WBR, EmP^A1C eburg.uniland.ru

DO> some of its own features.

nop

;)
Thank you. Helped.

Pleasant connections, Denis...

... ┌─[ZX]─>─[Scorpion]─┬─[T.]─>─[FDD]─>─[RAM]─>─[HDD]─>─[CD]─┐

[Killed.]
VB> IMHO, wrong comparison. ATAPI - compatibility means
Then compare z80 by Zilog and T34 by I don’t know who, but it was made in the USSR. What can I say! The processors who now put some commands into KAY do not understand, which most older processors understand. That's not compatibility.

VB> compatibility in
VB> interface, commands and return values. If at least
VB> one of these
VB> conditions is not met, it is not ATAPI, but who knows what. H
I STARTED THIS TOPIC WITH THIS!!! WHAT DO YOU NEED ATAPI CD-ROMS!!!

VB> ALL models work more than other
VB> computers.
They also work on other operating systems on the same computers. imho, so-called firewood is needed only for small-soft ones. Everyone else gets along without them.

VB> Apparently, the matter is in the hands of the author.
Write your own software, then talk about other people’s hands. And as I see it, you don’t need it at all, so there’s no need to talk any more. And I’m quite happy
with what I have.

ZXNet: 500:8462/1 ~/ <~ http://www.zx.ru/zs/
Fido: 2:5057/21.93 /_ _> ftp://zx-museum.org.ru/zs/

SZ> Then compare z80 by Zilog and T34 by I don’t know who, but it was made in the USSR. Yes
SZ> what can I say! The processors who now put some commands into KAY do not understand the commands that most older processors understand. So
SZ> is not compatible.

You forgot to say that those commands that he does not understand are in
the list of undocumented ones, mainly...

VB>> compatibility in
VB>> interface, commands and return values. If at least one of these

MZ>> Error.
MZ>> Commands are issued strictly according to the documentation, and not from the bullshit.
MZ>> Each individual cd-rom, of a different release, reacts
MZ>> differently, in
MZ>> in its own way, to the same operating algorithm.
MZ>> Also, not all cd-roms support the documented set
MZ>> atapi-commands.
VB> How is this????? Then this is not an ATAPI device.

;)
see. above are your own words...

MZ>> First of all, any cd-rom is an ATA device. And
MZ>> only in
MZ>> secondly supports a set of atapi packages _specific_ for a specific
MZ>> model.
VB> Also garbage. ALL the CDs that I
VB> connected worked for me. There is no firewood by definition. I'm not a pissist.
VB> More precisely, there is one atapi.device and for some reason all CD models work with it
VB>.

Also garbage. ALL the CDs that I
connected worked for me. There is no firewood by definition. I don't have pissism.

MZ>> Medium-speed sidi-roms are what infuriate me the most. They are clearly
MZ>> “on their own minds” -
MZ>> it is simply impossible to find out what he is doing at a particular moment in time
MZ>>. Until they work out
MZ>> certain actions known to them alone (sometimes more than a minute
MZ>> passes!) they cannot be interrupted in any way. Same with
MZ>> launched
VB> Listen, that means you’re doing something wrong. My programs
VB> always know
VB> what the CD is doing and it is interrupted normally...

;)
I also compared the levels...
We are talking about status flags in the device port, and not about
messages in the software.

MZ>> they couldn’t figure it out with blanks - they take a very long time to be detected,
MZ>> and it’s not clear how to deal with it.
VB> A there are no launchable blanks. G) These are all fictions and
VB> perversions.

Words?

MZ>> By the way, the first support for iso9660 was written
MZ>> using the scientific method - without any documentation. We haven’t even heard of the name
MZ>> ;) It’s crooked, of course, but it worked, on _one_ company,
MZ>> files downloaded. It didn’t work on the other one ;) Then
MZ>> they helped us with the docking and immediately all the other random cds became visible.
MZ>> And it wasn’t difficult. But I still can’t figure out the temporary huts and the flags of the
MZ>> cd-rom itself. We need to make a bunch of firewood
MZ>> for specific models. Sucks. Offtopic.
VB> WHAT? With half a kick I launched all the CD models
VB> that
VB> were brought to me, from 2x (prehistoric) to 50x modern ones and on
VB> the same
VB> atapi.device. What is this for?

Deep mania probably.

ps. could you really help? orDo you only know how to chat?

Pleasant connections, Vladimir...

ZXNet: 500:8462/1 ~/ <~ http://www.zx.ru/zs/
Fido: 2:5057/21.93 /_ _> ftp://zx-museum.org.ru/zs/

SZ> Did you forget to say who they are not documented by? In Russia they have been documented for a long time
SZ>, and are used to the fullest. By the way! If you don’t know, a certain Mac
SZ> Buster ordered docks from Zilog (I wouldn’t lie). And in the proprietary docs
SZ> “undocumented” commands WERE described! So...

:/ Strange. When I was doing all this, i.e. 3.5 years ago - everyone was talking about the undocumented commands of the z80 processor and no one had heard about
their documentation from Zilog... F(

SZ> [Killed.]

SZ>> I’ll get there???
SZ>> And if a person wrote subj, and then wrote a copier
SZ>> for 2 screws - this is not progress???
VB> Progress. I'm very happy for him. Honestly. I'm glad that the IDE on the
VB> spec is taking root, although not in the form in which I would like...

I would like it too. Let's wait for another form together.
Waiting.
MZ: Now, if I took up the code, my hands would be exactly straight.
VB:

Shall we continue?

MZ> I want it too. Let's wait for another form together.
MZ> We are waiting.
MZ> MZ: Now, if I took up the code, my hands would be exactly straight.
MZ> VB:
MZ> Let's continue?

What's the point?
2All: Where is the system that was written to replace tr-dosu? Well, there were a lot of
conversations about her... Somehow there is no continuation at all...

SZ> Then compare z80 by Zilog and T34 by I don’t know who, but made in the USSR.

T34 is 100% analogue. :-)

SZ> They also work on other operating systems on the same computers. imho,
SZ> so-called firewood is needed only for small-soft ones. Everyone else
SZ> gets by without them.

I don’t think so. I haven’t seen that there is no “firewood” anywhere in one form or another.
Of course, there is also autoconfig and universal firewood.