Pentagon II

Hello everyone.

MoR> Sooo... I see - it’s quiet here... We are taking
MoR> measures...
MoR> From today until the first of December, all
MoR> rules have been canceled. Everyone is free to express whatever they want, post
MoR> whatever they want, and... insult the moderator to the hilt :)

One, Two, Three, Four, Five, I'm starting to ignite FLAIM! ;-)

People! Is there a pentagon in nature on which the following are already installed and configured on the board: Turbo, 512, Cash, Sinclair INT, Turbo VG,
etc.? But it is the Pentagon (not Pro, ATM...) or a COMPLETELY compatible computer with
it.

P.S. Taking this opportunity, I say hello
to all the evil moderators :-P

That’s the end of the letter, whoever read that fellow :-)
-!- Lara Croft 3.1
- Origin: Xena is the queen of sadomasochists :-) (2:5061/33.41)
===============================================================================
Yo *All*!

Do you remember this? :-)

So the question is - has anyone made such a scarf?so that it would already have everything described above?
Still, at the Peters, such a scarf IMHO would be more popular
than just the Sprinter, and it would be cheaper.

09:17 12.Jul.1999 Always *yours* PointZ

On Eugene Tyukaev wrote All:

[skip about parameters]
ET> So the question is - has anyone made a scarf so that it already has
ET> everything described above? And yet, for the Peters, such a scarf IMHO
ET> would be more popular than just the Sprinter, and
ET> would be cheaper.
The Sprinter has all this, except for the extension at 512, but instead there is an extension at
4096
Well, and about everything else, those who don’t know will ask. :))

Wow! The Protoss are attacking my Zerlings! It's time to get going. Ivan.

- Divorce the scheme, big and small.. [ Sprinter-II ] [Forth-CPU] [ZX]

... E-mail: ivan...@mail.ru

14 Jul 1999 you wrote here:

IM> Sprinter has all this, except for the 512 extension, but instead of it
IM> extension at 4096
IM> Well, those who don’t know about everything else will ask. :))

Everything there, of course, may be cool, but here’s the question:
How much does a bare Sprinter board cost? :) Okay, with an alter and a process (without them
nobody needs it)?
In short, the minimum possible price? $80-100? Nobody will buy from us here, I’m sure
I’m telling you.

All the best.
Sincerely, Roman.

On Roman Milukov wrote to Ivan Mak:

RM> Everything there, of course, may be cool, but here’s the question:
RM> How much does a bare Sprinter board cost? :) Okay, with altera and process
RM> (without them no one needs it)? In short, the minimum possible price?
RM> $80-100? No one here will buy from us, I’m telling you for sure.

What do you mean, a kit for self-assembly?
A clean board, two PLMs and a processor about $45

21 Jul 1999 you wrote here:

IM> What do you mean, a kit for self-assembly?
IM> A clean board, two PLMs and a processor for about $45

Yeah. This is already better.
But still very expensive.

There is a very significant category of spektrumists who enjoy
the very process of assembly and launch.
There are also those who simply do not want to spend money on parts (they usually
have mountains of all sorts of small circuits at home). Or there is simply no money and nowhere to get it. For such people, buying a flop or hass is already a big problem. And on the periphery right now it still is. This is not Moscow or St. Petersburg.
Sprinter, in any form, is not for them.

You will say: “what small circuits! There are high technologies in the yard!”
And look at the crowds of radio amateurs who are still using lamps with might and main! ;)

So you need a subject!
A bare board with a well-thought-out circuit. With an external bus connector (not
slots). And consult with the people about what they need and on which ports...

RM> Yeah. This is already better.
RM> But it’s still very expensive.
Until the equipment gets cheaper, otherwise they won’t.

RM> There is a very significant category of spektrumists who get
RM> pleasure from the very process of assembly and launch.
RM> There are also those who simply don’t want to spend money on parts (they
RM> usually have mountains of all sorts of small circuits at home). Or there is simply no money and nowhere to get
RM>. For such people, buying a flop or hass is already a big problem. And on
RM> the periphery right now it is so. This is not Moscow or St. Petersburg. Sprinter, in
RM> any form, is not for them.
I understand. I myself have such mountains. There is nowhere to go.
And for independent assembly and launch, the Sprinter may turn out to be too
complicated. The PLM and the processor are planar and the distance between their legs is
less than 1 mm. Not everyone can solder this. Plus, there are many places where
thin tracks and two tracks pass between the legs of conventional microcircuits. In order not to offend them, you also need qualifications. I know from myself how difficult it is to assemble. I
I _can’t assemble this myself.

RM> You’ll say: “What small circuits! There’s high technology out there!”
RM> And look at the crowds of radio amateurs who are still using their lamps with might and main! ;)
And they ask for the pinout of the P214A in the hardware echo. :)))
I know, but on the old configuration you can only assemble old circuits.Or a little
newer, but without serious fundamental shifts.

RM> So you need a subject!
RM> A bare board with a well-thought-out circuit. With external bus connector (not
RM> slots). And consult with the people about what and on what ports they
RM> need...
Developing a new board now will cost quite a bit. And manufacturing boards
is not cheap. Minimum 2..3$ per decimeter. This means that the fee will
cost from 6 to 10 $. Also, not everyone will be able to buy, who has no money at all.
The solution is to buy old boards from 128-x, 256-x machines, assemble them on them and make
modifications.

IM> Developing a new board now will cost a lot. And manufacturing
IM> boards
IM> is not cheap. Minimum 2..3$ per decimeter. This means that
IM> the fee will
IM> cost from 6 to 10 $. Also, not everyone will be able to buy, those who have no money at all
IM>.

Why is it so expensive? They gave me a price list here the other day - so
a company works there by mail - it makes printed circuit boards to order, the cost
for 2-sided ones is from 18 rubles. for 1 sq. dm. when ordering from 50 sq.dm.

IM> The solution is to buy old boards from 128-x, 256-x machines, assemble them on them and
IM> do
IM> modifications.

It seems that we are talking about getting rid of snot, but this way you can’t get rid of them.

Sincerely, Dmitry.

Once, Mon Jul 26 1999 18:52, Dmitry Pavlukhin wrote to Ivan Mak about [Pentagon
II]:

DP> Why is it so expensive? They gave me a price list here the other day -
DP> so the company works there by mail - it makes printed circuit boards to order,
DP> the cost of 2-sided is from 18 rubles. for 1 sq. dm. when ordering from 50 sq.dm.

yep, third-class boards, and even with filthy metallization and an offset
track pattern ;)

All the best.
Dmitry.

... LD..X-TRADE... [ZX]

DL> yeah, third-class boards, and even with lousy metallization and
DL> offset
DL> track pattern ;)

Did you order them there? Or are you just kidding >:-| ? They have orders booked half a year in advance, is everyone really so overwhelmed (in our time) with payments of disgusting quality? Or maybe you have a more reliable
and better option?

Sincerely, Dmitry.

Wow! The Protoss are attacking my Zerlings! It's time to get going. Ivan... data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=ru&q=http://www.atlant.ru/peters&source=gmail&ust=1785433346915000&usg=AOvVaw27cuviXvo7YAc2QqBwh2lY">www.atlant.ru/peters *

DL> yeah, third-class boards, and even with crappy metallization and a displaced
DL> track pattern ;)

We have a giant of the Soviet industry lying here, so it seems there is $1 per 1 sq.dm.
of very high quality, but without the “green” (imho it just gets in the way?).

25 Jul 1999 you wrote here:

IM> I know, but with the old configuration you can only assemble old circuits. Or
IM> a little
IM> newer, but without serious fundamental shifts.

Yes, on Spec IMHO, no special revolutions are required.

July 30, 1999, Roman Milukov writes to Dmitry Lomov:

[...]

RM> We have a giant of the Soviet industry lying here, so it seems there is $1 for

So order this mythical DMA there... It’s interesting for yourself...

RM> 1 sq. dm. very high quality, but without “green” (imho it only
RM> interferes?).

Whoever bothers - let him scrape it off :) Among other things, the green protects against
cat urine :) if iron gets on the board, nothing bad
will happen. Roads do not oxidize. And it protects against static :)
and you are not needed...
Unless cutting roads is inconvenient. But let those who like sawing go to the
'Sawing' club. By the way, I went myself :) Or to RU.VYPILIVANIE...

Sincerely,
Renat

ps. The meaning of all that has been said is that there is no point in assembling detector receivers on computer boards. Still quietly audible :)

DL>> offset
DL>> track pattern ;)

DP> Did you order them there? Or are you just kidding >:-| ?

Hehe, I'm kidding.

DP> They have orders
DP> half a year in advance, is everyone really rushing (in our time
DP>) for boards of disgusting quality?

everyone gets up in the cold ;)

DP> Or maybe you have
DP> a more reliable and better option?

in the capital in the city of St. Petersburg there are no problems with this.

DP>> so the company works there by mail - it makes printed circuit boards to order,
DP>> the cost of 2-sided is from 18 rubles. for 1 sq. dm. when ordering from 50 sq.dm.

IM> It’s not just about the cost of 1 dm. You can’t take it, draw a board and
IM> sell it
IM> without checking it. And testing means _several_ preliminary boards
IM> with
IM> wiring, checking operation, correcting errors, etc. If this
IM> is done by a
IM> company, then the cost of the board will also include the cost of development.

I agree, but when a computer is being developed, it is necessary to calculate possible sales markets and the approximate number of potential buyers. When a lot of computers are sold, the costs of testing boards and assembling prototypes will be spread across the entire number of computers, and under a certain
set of circumstances (happy, of course), these costs will not lead to a strong increase in the cost of the computer.

July 26, 1999, Dmitry Pavlukhin squeezed the keyboard, hoping that the following words would reach Ivan Mak:

[Skipped]

From now on, I will ask you to monitor the amount of quoting.

Hasta la vista.
Tim Kelly

... tim_...@mail.ru 500:622/1@zxnet http://www.chat.ru/~tim_kelly

RM> If it bothers anyone, let them scrape it off :) Among other things, the greens protect
RM> from cat urine, among other things :) if iron gets on the board, nothing happens

Personally, I don’t give a damn. It’s just that for some reason they don’t make it at that factory.
And here’s some advice for you: then, as soon as you solder it, fill the entire board with epoxy compound
fill it, put the cat down, and don’t stop screwing it up. :)))

RM> ps. The meaning of all that has been said is that there is nothing to assemble detector receivers
RM> on computer boards. You can still hear it quietly :)

How long ago has it become so correct? ;)

P.S. And for how long? :)

Once, Fri Jul 30 1999 10:48, Roman Milukov wrote to Dmitry Lomov about [Pentagon
II]:

DL>> yeah, third-class boards, and even with lousy metallization and
DL>> offset track pattern ;)

DL> in the capital city of St. Petersburg there are no problems with this.

No, St. Petersburg is far from us - if you could find such a manufacturer in Novosibirsk, it would be just right.

Sincerely, Dmitry.

On Dmitry Pavluhin wrote to Ivan Mak:

DP> I agree, but when a computer is being developed, it is necessary to calculate
DP> possible sales markets and the approximate number of potential buyers.
DP> When many computers are sold, the costs of testing boards and
DP> the assembly of prototypes will be spread over the entire number of computers and under
DP> a certain set of circumstances (happy, of course) these
DP> expenses will not lead to a strong increase in the cost of the computer.

Only this must be proven to the one who will pay for all the development. And
remember that in our country copyright is not respected. :(
However, this does not mean that I am against such developments. At current prices,
a hundred small logic packages cost almost nothing. Therefore, there is no need to save on
these packages. And put on the board everything that can be installed.
If the desired feature takes up a couple of cases, then it should not be installed think
that this makes the board more expensive by 5 rubles.
It doesn’t increase the price at all, if you remember how much these features will cost on separate
boards and how much the same additional connector for its installation will cost.

RM> Yeah. Me too.

RM> And in order to order, you need to be confident that the boards will be sold
RM>. Let’s look at the diagram, estimate it, discuss it... And, most importantly, you need
RM> to have money for a decent batch.

How many pieces?

RM> Personally, I don’t give a damn. It’s just that for some reason they don’t make it at that factory.
RM> And here’s some advice for you: then, as soon as you solder it, fill the entire board with epoxy
RM> compound, put the cat down, and don’t stop screwing it up. :)))

I don’t have a cat :) I’m exaggerating this :) in this echo, someone complained about the cat...
The paths, they say, were eaten up...

RM>> And in order to order, you need to be confident that the boards will be sold
RM>>. Let's look at the scheme, estimate it, discuss it... And, most importantly, you need
RM>> to have money for a decent batch.

RM> “Others will come...” :)

Come on... Zonov has so accustomed everyone to slots that all the creators of the
super-duper place the tire in
the vision of Scorpio as the very first point in their fantasies. And this is because of the self-propelled modem and the General, who
seems to have disappeared forever...

Sincerely,
Renat

7 Aug 1999 you wrote here:

RM> What is the price in this case? I mean a customized board...

It will probably be comparable to GS. All the gadgets there seem to be cheap, but there are tons of them.
But the pure board will be much cheaper! ;)

RM> Come on... Zonov has so accustomed everyone to slots that all the creators of
RM> super-duper the very first point in their fantasies put the bus in
RM>'s vision of Scorpio. And this is because of the self-propelled modem and the General, which
RM> seems to have disappeared forever...

No, the very idea of ​​the bus as such has long been asked for, it is undoubtedly needed, and
free slots have nothing to do with it. This is completely different.
And, as far as I know, the tire began to be actively promoted not by Zonov, but by Nemo.
And don’t speak for everyone at once - here, for example, we haven’t even seen
any slot bells and whistles for Speck!

Hmm. This is, perhaps, the only thing that Zonov has done _unconditionally_ correctly.
This is the necessary and cheap minimum.

What do you order to install? bus in your vision or nothing at all?

RM> And this is because of the self-propelled modem and the General, which
RM> seems to have disappeared forever...

yeah, and non-self-propelled modems are connected in some supernatural way ;)
you forgot SMUC and the Nemov screw, the Zonov and Nemov keyboard.

I'm already tired of talking about near-bus topics. if Scorp didn't have
what it has, it would be an ass. and just an ass :-)

DL> yeah, and non-self-made modems are connected in some supernatural
DL> way ;) you forgot SMUC and the Nemov screw, the Zonov and Nemov
DL> keyboards.

Sinful, I forgot... However, the relish is not worth it, I think it’s too serious to take into account -
this specific piece of hardware...

DL> I'm already tired of talking about tire-related topics. if Scorp didn't have what it has, it would be an ass. and so just
DL> ass :-)

I wonder how Nemo is doing with sales now?

Sincerely,
Renat

RM>> vision of Scorpio. And this is because of the self-propelled modem and the General, which
RM>> seems to have disappeared forever...

RM> No, the very idea of ​​the bus as such has long been asked for, it is undoubtedly
RM> needed, and free slots have nothing to do with it. This is completely different. And,
RM> as far as I know, the tire began to be actively promoted not by Zonov, but by
RM> Nemo. And don’t speak for everyone at once - here, for example, even from afar
RM> we didn’t see any slot bells and whistles for Spec!

In this case, it doesn’t matter which of them was the first. It’s just that the system connector was also on the branded machine. And the peripherals were connected without a soldering iron.
We are just like in that joke about red caviar that we ate twenty years ago :)

It’s just, IMHO, the noise because of this was too much...

Sincerely,
Renat

Another stone in my garden ;). For your information, the Kai/Scorpio bus traces its history back to the Spectrum-48 system bus, which, as you know, was made by Sir Clive Sinclair. And Zonov only added some signals (as he himself says). In the end, this is at least some kind of indisputable standard now
on the Spectrum, why give it up? At my home, both Soundrive and Mouse
are inserted into the slot (I soldered it to my Pentagon myself).

Sincerely, Dmitry.

They talk a lot about subzh here... But I would buy it! Who will sell?
For a reasonable price, of course! you can just customize the board...

C ya in nE> ASCENDANCY HQ: ascen...@mail.ru http://www.ascendancy.homepad.com

August 10, 1999, Dmitry Pavlukhin writes to Renat Mamedov:

RM>> they are putting a tire in the vision of Scorpio. And this is because of the self-propelled modem and
RM>> General, who seems to have disappeared forever...

DP> Another stone in my garden ;). For your information, the
DP> Kai/Scorpio bus traces its history back to the Spectrum-48 system bus,

:) yesterday I wrote this.

DP> which, as you know, was done by Sir Clive Sinclair. And Zonov only added
DP> some signals (as he himself says). In the end, this is at least

By the way, in an advertisement for his brainchild of those years, Zonov says:
"... system connector (completely coincides with the proprietary connector of the ZX Spectrum
48/128);"

DP> is some kind of indisputable standard now on the Spectrum, why abandon it
DP>? At my home, both Soundrive and Mouse are inserted into the slot (I
DP> soldered it myself to my Pentagon).

I’m not a poster, I’m not calling for anything... :)

Sincerely,
Renat

9 Aug 1999 you wrote here:

DL> yeah, but non-self-propelled modems are connected in some supernatural way ;)

Yes, you need to put an ISA slot for chaos in the subject board! Then the connection method
will not be so supernatural. ;)

One day, Tue Aug 10 1999 17:42, Renat Mamedov wrote to Dmitry Lomov about [Pentagon
II]:

DL>> I’m already tired of talking about tire-related topics. if Scorp
DL>> didn’t have what is there, it would be an ass. and so
DL>> it’s just an ass :-)

RM> I wonder how Nemo’s sales are now?

it’s an ass, of course ;)
why should there be prosperity if everyone is playing for the puss? :-)

RM>>> Come on... Zonov got everyone used to slots so much that all the creators
[...]
RM>> No, the very idea of a bus as such has long been asked for, it is undoubtedly
[...]
RM> In In this case, it doesn’t matter which of them was first. It’s just that the system
RM> connection was also on the branded machine. And the peripherals were connected without
RM> a soldering iron.
So, so... On what “branded” machine was the system bus used and what
was it (the bus) called? And if it’s not difficult, what devices were
connected to it?

P.S. Yes, Scorpio has slots... But I’ll tell you about the ZX-Next, which I soldered myself and soldered a bunch of boards that plug into these slots too... IMHO the ideal implementation of the Specy for that time (93-98). Now there may be something more interesting - not in the know.
By the way, one of the two authors of this computer reads this echo and his name is
Konstantin Sviridov. "The country must know its heroes!" :)

Good bye ─Ї─
http://www.chat.ru/~ik ICQ:4070161 [Pycckue ugym! Team]─╨─KAR

DL>> yeah, and non-self-propelled modems are connected in some supernatural
DL>> way ;)

RM> Yes, you need to put an ISA slot for chaos in the subject board! Then the method
RM> of connection will not be so supernatural. ;)
It won't work IMHO. But why nutry? Who is stopping you from connecting an external one to 9600?
RS232 to 9600 (up to 12200 theoretically) works stably. It was implemented by me
both on 8912 and on... what else did we have? on IP23 or something?.. In general, all
signals can be received and used. (In any case, the printer worked stably on all
implementations of rs232 drivers under isDos that I wrote)

Good bye ─╥─

P.S. Yes, Scorpio has slots... But I’ll tell you about the ZX-Next, which I soldered myself and soldered a bunch of boards that plug into these slots too... IMHO the ideal implementation of the Specy for that time (93-98). Now there may be something more interesting - not in the know.
By the way, one of the two authors of this computer reads this echo and his name is
Konstantin Sviridov. "The country must know its heroes!" :)

DL>
DL> ass, of course ;)
DL> why should there be prosperity if everyone is throwing their weight around? :-)
A I wanted to support a friend on CC999, but he didn’t have any ready-made boards :(

WBR, Sergey Orlov [ZX]
mailto: gri...@mail.ru
http://www.ascendancy.homepad.com

His dislike of networks is also funny. And an even cooler explanation for this -
like, he doesn’t want to give free consultations to dummies.
So it’s not partly because of the pussy...

Sincerely,
Renat

13 Aug 1999 you wrote here:

IK> P.S. Yes, Scorpio has slots... But I’ll tell you about the ZX-Next, which I soldered myself and
IK> a bunch of
IK> boards that are stuck into these slots, I also soldered.... IMHO the ideal
IK> implementation of
IK> Specy at that time (93-98). Nowadays there may be something more interesting - not in

Aha! Well then, tell me, where can I get a screw driver with a customizer for ZX-Next's connection diagram? ;)

IK> It won't work IMHO. But why nutry? Who is stopping you from connecting an external one to 9600
IK>?
IK> RS232 to 9600 (up to 12200 theoretically) works stably. It was implemented

Well, 9600 is not enough right now. In any case, connecting an internal modem is
easier.

August 13, 1999, Igoriy Kartavtsev writes to Renat Mamedov:

[...]

RM>> In this case, it doesn’t matter which of them was the first. It’s just that
RM>> the system connector was also on the branded machine. And the peripherals
RM>> were connected without a soldering iron.

IK> So, so... On what “branded” machine was the system
IK> bus used and what was it (the bus) called? And if it’s not difficult, what devices
IK> were connected to it?

the machine was called zx-spectrum 48k. Manufactured by Sinclair Research Ltd.

Devices: Interface 1.2, Kempston joystick & mouse, beta disc... more?

RM> Let's go back to the beginning of the conversation. The Scorpio/Kai tire has become a standard. Period.
For you. And don’t be so categorical. And ^^^^^^ and ^^^ are not spectrum in its pure
form. Perhaps the second one is more correct, I don’t know... But ZX-Next COMPLETELY implements ALL the capabilities of both Clive’s and Amstrad’s spec.
I, in particular, have brought to mind, as far as possible, various schemes
of domestic developers. But it is ZX-Next that works most correctly with all programs. Because it does not emulate, but initially contains all possible “features” of the original computer in the circuit design. As far as I remember the authors, it was the 128th “native” spec that I saw (in disassembled form;).

RM>> Period.

IK> For you. And don’t be so categorical. And ^^^^^^ and ^^^ are not spectrum in

The creators of General Sound, the modem also think so :) And what is there for next?

IK> in its pure form. Perhaps the second one is more correct, I don’t know... But
IK> ZX-Next
IK> FULLY implements ALL the capabilities of both Clive and Amstrad’s spec.

And who needs this now?

IK> In particular, I have, to the extent possible, brought to mind various schemes
IK> domestic developers. But it is ZX-Next that works most correctly with all programs. Because they are not emulated in it, but initially

On what basis was this categorical conclusion made? And the demos run on it
correctly?

IK> the circuitry contains all the possible “features” of the original computer.

and glitches too?

IK> As far as I remember, it was the 128th “native” spec that I saw from the authors (in
IK> disassembled form;).

They are cool. Although not very good, if you took it apart :) But still cool.

Sincerely,
Renat

[about Nemo]
RM> His dislike of networks is also funny. And an even cooler explanation for this -
RM> like, he doesn’t want to give free consultations to dummies.

He just doesn’t like dialogues, but monologues (his own). And with epigraphs. ;)

RM>> this guy doesn’t want to give free consultations to dummies.

RM> It’s just that he doesn’t like dialogues, but monologues (his own). And with epigraphs. ;)

It's interesting to read. The evolution of thought can be observed from publications in the format :)
If there is someone who communicates with him, maybe he should throw these fluff
here regularly?

Sincerely,
Renat