NeOS — ZXNet «real.speccy»

From Kirill Frolov To All 23 November 1998

Hi, Roman

It was 20 Nov 98 and 07:41:10, Roman Petrov wrote to All
on the topic of NeOS
Not seeing a moderator nearby, I decided to insert a word:

RP> I was just tormented. By the way, a question for the happy owners of cache and emulators:
~~~~~
Rulez. Sometimes...

RP> you need to throw a NeOS ROM? Now it contains all the functions, as well as the command
RP> interpreter. You can, for fun, dabble with the command line. Of course,
RP> I’ll also throw the doc right away, otherwise how will you know the commands? ;-)

Strange question - the faster the better.

With best wishes, Kirill Frolov.

From Roman Petrov To All 24 November 1998

Hello, All!

As planned, I upload the updated NeOS and the ROM image to the dock. If
anyone is not too lazy, you can look at the code. If you find anything stupid, write me and I’ll correct it. Don’t pay attention to calling a procedure with RET - that’s how it’s intended, my tests usually sit in that procedure. Reset is disabled.
The ROM image is a working version, so not everything is there yet.

PS: At the same time, tell me how it even works, is it not too slow,
otherwise I’ll write, but it turns out it’s slow. After all, I’m writing under the emulsion...

PPS: Criticism and advice are welcome.

PPPS: Commands for working with the NeOS disk have not yet been implemented due to
the incompleteness of the TR-DOS driver (which is present in the ROM).

Bye, All! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

[Team ZX-Spectrum] [Team NeOS] [Team Rock'n'Roll forever]

From Andrey Isaev To All 26 November 1998

Greetings, Roman

Once on 24 Nov 98 at 22:16:59 there was a conflict
Roman Petrov and All were arguing about NeOS
I decided to continue this dialogue:

RP> PS: At the same time, tell me how it even works, isn’t it too slow,
RP> otherwise I’ll write, but it turns out it’s slow. I’m writing under emulsion...
On the weekend I’ll run to the nearest Sprinter and take a look...

RP> PPS: Criticism and advice are welcome.
Did you receive soap from me? otherwise I’m already tired of criticizing but you don’t even
answer!!!

Andrey was with you.

From Renat Mamedov To All 26 November 1998

RP>> I’m writing...
AI> On the weekend I’ll run to the nearest Sprinter and take a look...

a horse without a leg :). and what will we actually see here (at the next :))? analogue of Izdos/Pink Floyd? why is it? what
goals did the author pursue?

distribution method? compatibility with standard software?
if not, then who will write a new one? point specifically with your
finger (no need to point at yourself :))...

From Andrey Isaev To All 26 November 1998

RP> PPS: Criticism and advice are welcome.
Various registers are often spoiled in the functions of the subject, so if the
register does not return anything useful, then there is no need to spoil it!

Judging by the file descriptor, it (the file) cannot have RO attributes,
visible/invisible and so on, and this is also very inconvenient.

Yes the function of deleting an _empty directory_, which is not always convenient. From the experience of working
in IsDos and on PyTsy, one can assume that it is not empty
directories that will have to be deleted, so it is better to provide this option as well.

Why is the position in the file specified by one register? this is currently 65k, and the file
may be larger. And finally, I really didn’t like working with files in the isdos
it was done much better.

Well, that’s all for now, maybe one of these days I’ll look at the firmware itself and say more :)

Andrey was with you.

From Andrey Isaev To All 27 November 1998

AI>> On the weekend I’ll run to the nearest Sprinter and take a look...
RM> a horse without a leg :). and what will we actually see here (at the next :))
RM>? analogue of Izdos/Pink Floyd? why is it? what
RM> goals did the author pursue?
Is this your first time in this echo? Or did you hear about the subject for the first time? Why do you have such vulgar thoughts in your head? maybe not everything is so bad.

RM> PS. but finally, it’s just that I’m here again... who will scold the sprinter
RM> :) - I’ll throw pancakes at you :).
You’d better finish the din and shower us with it with jujukas :)

RM> 2 Ivan Mak: can you see me here?
It’s hard to see you here! Shoo off! ;)

Andrey was with you.

From Renat Mamedov To All 27 November 1998

AI> You better finish the din and shower us with it :)

today I glued everything and am all in my thoughts... it’s about 189k (755 sects.)
what’s it like? in the echo - beat it...

In short, people! know! Homer Simpson in Russia (full release)
is 100% ready and is on my disk... for those who don’t know, this is the same gama, its demo is on zx-servere, and I also saw this demo in the Welcom catalog (on Fantop), asked the director about
it, but didn’t hear anything intelligible...
Therefore - apparently freeware. It’s a pity, really, almost a year of work -
oh well... but they won’t hit you in the neck :)

From Andrey Isaev To All 28 November 1998

RM> everything turned out to be even worse than I expected. + Scroller
RM> slows down (in non-turbo, yes :)). 32 characters and even from the ROM it was
RM> and quicker...
Yes, the impression is really depressing :(

RM> and also impressions - everything is black, like... scary. I'm scared.
RM> And the bass is not in place. and in general...
Well, you should have kept quiet about the bass, weren't you dreaming of removing it as unnecessary?

RM> and with /5 this is really my first time here...
No, this is the second time already :)

From Roman Petrov To All 28 November 1998

AI> In the functions of the subject, all kinds of registers are very often spoiled, so
AI> if nothing useful is given in the register, then there is no need to spoil it
AI> We’ll see, we can fix it, but the volume will increase and slow down a little
function operation (by 20-60 clock cycles).

AI> Judging by its file descriptor (file) cannot have attributes RO,
AI> visible/invisible and so on, and this is also very inconvenient.
There are, I just haven’t documented them.

AI> There is a function for deleting an _empty directory_, which is not always convenient from
I doubt that you will have a desire to work with the disk using
the actual NeOS commands. Most likely you will use a thread
shell. What prevents you from making such a function in the shell? And in the BIOS this is, IMHO, unnecessary clutter.

AI> Why is the position in the file set by one register? This is the current 65k, and
Sorry, it looks like the crooked description has gone into the echo ;-) I just rearranged the items in the file descriptor
so maybe I wrote it crookedly. Right now, out of fear, I looked at the descriptor - 4 bytes ;-) Everything is correct. Or are you talking about setting the offset in the file? There actually is an option to set the position not from the beginning of the file, but from the current position. Although I have long been thinking about giving this function
a 4-byte offset as input.
AI> the file may be larger. Yes, and finally working with filesI really didn't like AI in isdos, it was done much better.
I don't have a description of is-dos. What specifically did you not like? Write
more specifically before it's too late to fix it.

AI> Well, that's all for now, maybe one of these days I'll look at the firmware itself and say something else
AI> :)
Find the nearest scorpion and check it on it. Or in the Georgian cache (if there is one).

Bye, Andrey! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Roman Petrov To All 28 November 1998

RP>> PS: At the same time, tell me how it even works, isn’t it
RP>> too slow, otherwise I’ll write, but it turns out it’s slow. After all
RP>> I am writing under the emulsion...

From Roman Petrov To All 28 November 1998

AI> Is this your first time in this echo? Or did you hear about the subject for the first time? Why do you have such vulgar thoughts in your head? maybe not everything is so bad.
Oh, we already have a support group formed ;-) Thank you!

From Roman Petrov To All 28 November 1998

It doesn’t look like is-dos in any way. Isdos is very limited in that it is written for
48 cars. It looks even less like Pink Floyd, if only because it doesn't look like Windows
;-)
RM> What goals did the author pursue?
To make a system convenient for the authors of system software. Demomakers and writers of really fancy toys don't need the system, in principle.

RM> method of distribution? compatibility with high-end software?
The method has not yet been fully resolved. But, probably, shareware. Compatibility -
the question is inappropriate, if only because no one takes away tr-dos.
RM> if not, then who will write a new one? specifically show
RM> your finger (no need to point at yourself :))...
X-Project agreed (as far as I remember) to adapt Melon. This is for example.

From Kirill Frolov To All 28 November 1998

Menu 48-128 basic and trdos and a command line where you can type VER and
several almost meaningless commands. After all, there are no disk functions.

And changing colors there is terribly buggy.

From Renat Mamedov To All 29 November 1998

RP> Eh, something has happened to my memory... What a fuss? Not Simpson,
RP> by any chance?
RP> Let him finish, I think I even liked the demo on
RP> her.

well, at least one admitted it :) otherwise they scolded me for profanity
lexicon :)

zy. and the din is ready. Once I receive permission, I will post it in zx.spectrum. everyone urgently
subscribe :)

From Renat Mamedov To All 29 November 1998

RP> It doesn’t look like is-dos in any way. Isdos is very
RP> limited in that it is written for 48 cars. It looks like Pink Floyd
RP> even less so, at least in that it doesn’t look like Windows ;-)

the review consisted of :)
my opinion: it looks like it was published: because the scope is very
limited by new software, but more on that later.
The authors (s), apparently, incorrectly assess the situation.
Obviously, you forgot how many of us there are left and how many
are writing anything. So for these writers, IMHO, it will be uninteresting
to write for 3-5 people, and many will be stopped by hardware
alterations. Just don’t say: just sew it up! - for some it may be simple, but there are people (me, for example :) who don’t like to disassemble a computer and don’t keep a programmer at hand. Although
I'm more likely to be in the category of "doesn't like to collect" :)

about Pink Floyd: but it looks like dos x.xx :)

RM>> What were the author's goals?
RP> To create a system convenient for authors of system software.
RP> Demomakers and writers of really fancy toys
RP> system, in In principle, it’s not needed.

Is there a lot of this system software? and how many people need it?
the maximum that may be required is disk compatibility... and then when transferring to Tyrdos...

or are you planning to create databases and lexicons? :)

From Andrey Isaev To All 29 November 1998

RP>>> slow, otherwise I’ll write, but it turns out it’s slow. Under the emulsion, after all
RP>>> I’m writing...
AI>> This weekend I’ll run to the nearest Sprinter and take a look...

From Andrey Isaev To All 29 November 1998

RP> Sorry, it looks like the crooked description was lost in the echo ;-) I just rearranged the items in the file descriptor
RP>, so maybe I wrote it crookedly. Right now, out of fear
RP> I looked at the descriptor - 4 bytes ;-) Everything is correct. Or are you talking about setting
RP> offset in the file?
It's about installation.

RP> There actually is an option to set the position not from the beginning
RP> of the file, but from
RP> the current position.
IMHO very inconvenient!

RP> Although I have long been thinking about giving this function
RP> a 4-byte offset as input.
Yes, it will be much better!

From Roman Petrov To All 29 November 1998

Do you need 128 BASIC??? This is the first time I have seen such a person. And 48 as he was, so
he remained. Or do you want BASIC 128 to remain and the OS to be new?
In general, no one is stopping you from installing a second ROM (or ROM emulator)
and living with both NeOS and 128 BASIC.

RM> The reset is terrible. But why did they throw it? there and feel
What about the reset??? There, by the way, even the reset is specially blocked.
RM> practically nothing is impossible... I could tell it on my fingers :)
So at least to introduce me a little externally. But on the fingers it’s not interesting.

From Igor Turashev To All 29 November 1998

RP> So, at least outwardly introduce us a little. But on fingers it’s not interesting.
We won’t throw fingers yet ;) ...

RP> Bye, Renat! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

RP> [Team ZX-Spectrum] [Team NeOS] [Team Rock'n'Roll forever]

RP> --- GoldED/386 2.50+
RP> * Origin: And Win'95 has a hidden feature - multitasking! (2:5052/7.37)

All the best, Tigrr.
[Team NeOS] [Team GOA] [Team TRANCE] [Team PRODIGY]
<< Brainwave Association >>

From Renat Mamedov To All 30 November 1998

I was the first to shout that it should be thrown out. And judging
according to my correspondence, many people, out of reluctance
to solder, replaced it with my Glitch firmware...
has become wiser over the years :)

RP> 48 as he was, so he remains. Or do you want
RP> BASIC 128 to remain and the OS to be new?
RP> In general, no one is stopping you from installing a second ROM
RP> (or ROM emulator)
RP> and living with both NeOS and 128 BASIC.

To be honest, this Basic is like a vaccination for me :)
and neos too... if everything stays like this :)

From Renat Mamedov To All 30 November 1998

IT> That's just what you found in Basik 128 that you can't live without
IT>, and for that matter, install cash, however.

The answer is wrong. I don't need him. Why didn't you just put your axis instead of the glitched firmware? for this quarter?
1) wouldn’t have to fight with tyrdos (I mean blocking)
2) working in RAM is definitely (!) :) easier than in ROM and code in RAM
it turns out more compact due to the possibility of modifying it
and organizing system variables in the body of the program.
3) the system itself starts from any page (optional),
drivers are also scattered across pages, the maximum that is needed is
it’s small resident for launching/operating applications....
An excellent example of this technology is sts. and if you also use the 2nd screen for system needs, and force the programs
to work on the 1st one - it’s finally rulez!!!
4) is disk compatible with MS-DOS.
a mountain of problems and creative torment falls off your shoulders.

here are, in short, all the complaints about neos... :)

From Roman Petrov To All 1 December 1998

Hello, Kirill!

On Saturday November 28 1998 Kirill Frolov wrote to Renat Mamedov:

KF> A menu of 48-128 basic and trdos and a command line where you can type VER and
KF> a few more almost meaningless commands. After all, there are no disk
KF> functions.
Not yet. Temporarily.

KF> And the color change there is terribly glitchy.
Are you talking about the border? ;-) I already noticed that he installed current attributes there instead of a border. And if there is something else, then let me know. If you say anything, say it completely.

Bye, Kirill! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Roman Petrov To All 1 December 1998

AI> Yes, it will be much better!
I’ll fix it, especially since there are no such functions yet.

RP>> Write more specifically, before it’s too late to fix it.
AI> I already asked you in the soap to give me a description of all the functions in text
AI> send.
Probably the message hasn’t arrived yet... Maybe I have a little time in the echo replenish
description toss?

From Roman Petrov To All 1 December 1998

RM> In other words, for money... and a lot of volunteers?
No, shareware is a little modified. That is, the program is distributed
for free, but if anyone deigns (I wonder if there are still such people left?), he can send
us a certain amount of money, for which we will send him further versions and software
as it becomes available.

RM> I mean that I can download my favorite art studio without any problems and
RM> I will torment him without leaving the cash register (disc)...
Wait, I didn’t understand a little. There's no way you'll be able to work with ArtStudio,
using system innovations that this very ArtStudio doesn't support.
What's the difference? Whether the system exists or not, the Art Studio is neither cold nor hot.

RM> The (new) system will need a bunch of things: a graph. editor :),
Count. the editor is the sore spot so far.
RM> music. editor, commander, disk utilities, assembler/debugger,
Commander - already a little developed on paper, you just need to write it down. Disk
utilities - similarly. Assembler - at first we will remake ZX-ASM (the authors
gave consent), then again X-Project can adapt Alasm and STS.
RM> packer and so on... is there/will it be?
Not yet, because the system does not yet have the most important thing - working with the disk :(
As soon as it appears, writing will begin immediately software.

RM> your (your) system is too demanding on software:
RM> andthe memory itself requires the bottom, and you couldn’t change the version (without
Where else??? Where else can you scatter system variables??? On pages?
Have you thought about the brakes associated with accessing them? So I’m talking about the same thing...
RM> programmer). I got the impression that the author wanted
RM> to put it in ROM because he didn’t want to spend 3 bytes on a call (rst use :))
By the way, now the vast majority of functions are called via CALL.
And I wanted to put it in ROM not because of this, but because I wanted to free up as much
memory as possible for the programmer, and eat up half, like iS-DOS, leaving just a little bit for the program itself. At first I also wanted to do it in RAM, but then, remembering about
iS-DOS...

From Roman Petrov To All 1 December 1998

RP>> Let him finish writing, I think I even liked the demo on
RM> well, at least one admitted it :) otherwise they scolded me for using profanity
I even went through the whole thing (up to ~15%, I think).
RM> vocabulary :)
What kind of profanity is there? There, IMHO, there is no swearing. There are just a few not very cultural words, but not swearing, again, IMHO. If there are experts in the
Russian language here, then let them correct them.

RM> PS. and the din is ready. Once I receive permission, I will post it in zx.spectrum. everyone
RM> urgently subscribe :)
So, subscribed.

From Roman Petrov To All 1 December 1998

Hello, Andrey!

On Saturday November 28 1998 Andrey Isaev wrote to Renat Mamedov:

RM>> everything turned out to be even worse than I expected. + Scroller slows down
RM>> (in non-turbo, yes :)). 32 characters, and even from the ROM it was
RM>> and quicker...
AI> Yes, the impression is really depressing :(
Why did you find it depressing? By the way, today I plan to write a driver
64 characters per line.

Bye, Andrey! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Renat Mamedov To All 1 December 1998

RP> I even completed it all (up to ~15%, I think).

I completed it too. two hundred times :)

RM>> vocabulary :)
RP> And what kind of profanity is there? There, IMHO, there is no swearing. There
RP> there are just a few not quite cultural words, but not swearing, again
RP>, IMHO. If there are experts in the Russian language here, then let
RP> correct me.

Well, it seems like I used those words and expressions that I am embarrassed to say in
the presence of strangers. and if someone
pronounces them, I blush and roar :) Only in a text editor
and I give exhaust to the teenage complex :)

in the game itself there are disproportionately more of them than in the demo, however
after the demo was released I removed and refined a lot... I didn’t remove one
trick - he pronounces it very relishly
(in ay)...
drive away the children - the sea blood :)
or hide in the closet yourself if you are <18 :)

From Renat Mamedov To All 1 December 1998

RM>> (without
RP> Where else??? Where else can you scatter system
RP> variables??? On pages?
RP> Have you thought about the delays associated with accessing them? Here
RP> and I’m talking about the same thing...

I’ll give you the example of sts-a again... and don’t talk about the fact that it
slows down and in general, in my opinion, you have a complex on the brakes :)
it won’t slow down. to clap pages on a spec (real :) you don’t need a lot of time...
and in the case of RAM, system variables can be located in the body
of the system.
construction like

ld a,0
variabl equ $-1

is that familiar to you?

RP> And I wanted to use ROM not because of this, but because
RP> to free up memory as much as possible for programmer, and eat
RP> half, like iS-DOS, leaving just a little
RP> for the program itself. At first I also wanted to do it in RAM, but then
RP> remembering about iS-DOS...

and you remember about shadow assemblers/monitor...

From Denis Dmitriev To All 1 December 1998

There is no memory at the bottom, this is obviously bad.
And about the fact that there are 3 bytes per call: the idea was to have _standard_
entry points into the system (and for a call you also need to keep a resident, which by the way
if you make it moveable -> problems for the same call, you will need to configure it)
How this is implemented is another matter... But we all hope for the best :)

ps: Is it really such a big problem with using EPROM? same ROM, but dosa version
change - I don’t want to ;)

With best wishes, Denis Dmitriev.

... I’ll buy a moonshine still. intermediary phone number 02.

From Denis Dmitriev To All 1 December 1998

Yes, about that.
I went through the description... The structure turned out to be not very flexible. Don't force me to explain why - everyone would do it their own way. But still, a couple of stupid
observations (what else I remember): too mixed flag fields (everything is in a heap. It’s better
to allocate a couple of extra bytes, but sort the system flags by function and purpose),
and disk drivers... I don’t even know what you wanted to say by this, but the list of
drivers: trdos, msdos, isdos, hdd - this is not as it should be. You have
everything in a heap here. In fact, it is necessary to divide these drivers into two groups:
drivers
drives that will directly communicate with the hardware (for example
floppy.drv, hdd.drv, cdrom.drv), and drivers _file systems_ that
will access data through previous drivers (for example trdos.drv to cdrom.drv -
who prevents the launch trdos from sidiroma?! ;)
sorry if I wrote it in lamer language (read state - origin :)

From Roman Petrov To All 2 December 1998

RM> Is the customizer also in the ROM?
No, actually, all the initial settings (selection of driver, machine type, colors)
are made by the installer, which generates the firmware.

RM> and what I saw does not (look) like a six-month project...
Damn it, you know, If you add up all the time that I worked on it, it won’t be half a year, but much less. I'm lazy :( Yes, and there's not always
enough time. For example, in August, in 1 week I did more than in June and
July combined. So.
RM> IMHO, exactly the same thing can be written in an evening (which also works :)
RM> and from RAM :)
Similar yes, but there are other functions in addition to the command line available.

Bye, Renat! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Roman Petrov To All 2 December 1998

Hello, Renat!

On Monday November 30 1998 Renat Mamedov wrote to Igor Turashev:

RM> and in the sprinter at least 80*32 and single-frame scrolling :)
The sprinter is no longer quite a Spectrum. This is something sophisticated, but expensive,
therefore it is not available to me yet.

RM> 1) don’t fight with tyrdos (I mean blocking)
Logical. It would be possible to keep 48 ROMs turned on.
RM> 2) working in RAM is definitely (!) :) easier than in ROM and the code in RAM
RM> turns out to be more compact due to the possibility of modifying it
RM> and the organization of system variables in the body of the program.
By the way, yes. Then there would be no need for TEMPFA (there is such an area there).
RM> 3) the system itself starts from any page (optional),
RM> drivers are also scattered across pages, the maximum that is needed is
RM> this is a small resident for launching/running applications....
You can, of course, everything is great, but when actively working with system functions due to
switching pages, everything will work somewhat slowly, and it will be terribly inconvenient for system functions to work with the upper memory. That's all the problems, but I wouldn't even think about placing them in ROM, everything would be in RAM. You can, of course, throw down the most critical functions. It's possible, but memory, memory...
RM> 4) disk compatible with MS-DOS.
RM> a mountain of problems and creative torment falls off his shoulders.
And the driverMS-DOS is written...

RM> especially from the tracked DT-75 :) I meant that something
RM> that was thrown into the echo does not show itself as an axis.
You are right.

From Renat Mamedov To All 2 December 1998

RM>> use it :))

DD> Looks for memory at the bottom, this is obviously bad.
DD> And about the fact that there are 3 bytes per call: the idea was that
DD> to have _standard_
DD> entry points into the system (and for call you also need to keep a resident
DD>, which by the way
DD> if you make it moveable -> problems for the same call,
DD> will need to be configured)

so. Didn't understand. Theoretically, in the entire program there can be
one single call to the resident: all BIOS calls
in the program are made to one place, which knows where the resident is and forwards calls to it. Another
question is how does it (this place) know the location of the
resident. I think it makes sense to transfer the case to the prosecutor's office :)

it's also not difficult to find out. One (1) time we turn on the page with
the system and knock out the location of the resident from it.
The truth is that there is a subtlety -> if the BIOS is moved across
pages -> then you need to know its page. here either through a
setup or read from kmos (if any) or from the cache,
or from the music player or modem, or maybe directly from the disk :)
and if you don’t fight like that, the program running under the new axis
can find traces of the bootloader in memory - and find out from them.
Or 1 (one :) system variable.

I wrote a lot and hid even more :). Of course, you shouldn't
rework the system to meet these requirements - now for you,
apparently, the main thing is to justify yourbrainchild, no matter how bad it may seem. But this is my opinion...
I just showed that all the prejudices about working from pages are far-fetched, and it’s completely ridiculous to blame speed.
What will the BIOS be used for? for working with its disks :)
There can be no question of time here, because it is incomparably
less than the speed of the brakes of the disk drive controller...
in the case of a screw, it will also be limited by the throughput
of the controller and the capabilities of the processor for pulling out data...

The only place where time can affect is working with the screen.
But even here, with the right approach, it will not increase so much
that the difference will become noticeable... at least by eye... :)

DD> How it is implemented is another matter... But we all hope for
DD> the best :)

"Be patient, for the Lord has said..."

DD> ps: Is it really such a big problem with using EPROM? the same
DD> ROM, but change the dosa
DD> versions - I don’t want to ;)

vulgar. then the cache... is expensive and inconvenient to find/install...

From Renat Mamedov To All 2 December 1998

RM>> programming?
RP> Was. Well, what do you suggest? Scroll in a stack? And
RP> interruptions should be kept enabled, because not on
RP> all machines you can throw the screen in one interruption.

you can’t scroll at all :) but this is probably
not useful except for the DOS itself...

by the way, are system variables shiftable? in the book
Rodionov, this issue was discussed, they say, if it weren’t for the ROM,
or rather, some of its places - where the addressing is direct,
then it would be quite possible to move the area of variables
of the system and see them through IY...

From Renat Mamedov To All 2 December 1998

RP> You can, of course, everything is great, but when actively working with
RP> system functions, due to page switching, everything will
RP> work somewhat slowly, and besides, system functions

are not so slow. this is a myth. The productivity of the deposit
is quite high, and the actual operating time of these functions
I think will be disproportionately longer, so this can be ignored
without compromising objectivity :)

RP> it will be terribly inconvenient to work with the upper memory. That's all

What does a resident need? By the way, no one limits it by size:
256 bytes are quite possible... for completeness :)
and you can push a turboloader into 256 bytes - we tried it on
Monday with Isaev...
or rather, he tried it, and I morally supported :)

RP> problems, otherwise I wouldn’t even think of placing them in ROM, in RAM and
RP> that was all. You can, of course, throw down the most critical functions
RP>. It’s possible, but memory, memory...

they won’t be (critical). and you can throw them for a while...

From Denis Dmitriev To All 2 December 1998

RM> "measuring the lengths of individual parts of the body" went... well, what kind of
RM> program (serious) will work for a 12k screen? and even in the best
RM> places of RAM :)...

By the way, about the best places of RAM.
I ask the public (that is, Petrov :) not to forget that by turning on
bit number 3 of port #7ffd, these 12k are sent to places not so distant,
freeing up all the main memory from #4000 to #bfff for user programs :)
Taking this into account in the BIOS, you won't get any rules later :)
just don't complain about the fact that you won't be able to keep the font in the pages -
firstly, the benefits are already much greater; and secondly, it is possible if you get perverted.

From Denis Dmitriev To All 2 December 1998

Great, Renat!

Once on 29 Nov 98 at 13:57:22 Renat Mamedov wrote to Roman Petrov
about NeOS, which made me comment on the event:

RP> What do you mean it slows down? I won’t do realtime scrolling for you. Compare with
RP> the speed of 48 BASIC scroller. Although, I’ll compare it myself.

Stop, people! Again, you're on your own!
It's not written like a megademe here, damn it!
Who the hell needs it, this scrolling? Even if it consumes at least a hundred interruptions, normal programs will scroll the directory on their own, and I hope there will be no abnormal ones at all. And there is no need to argue - when was the last time someone used an offtopic, went to DOS and typed Dir in order to look at the directory? :)

With the best, Denis Dmitriev.

From Andrey Isaev To All 2 December 1998

RP> Why do you need NeOS then, when you can attach a super-duper cool
RP> system to the Sprinter?
I told you that we have only one Sprinter and that one, thank God, is not mine.

Andrey was with you.

From Igor Turashev To All 2 December 1998

RM> An excellent example of this technology is sts. and if you also use
RM> the 2nd screen for system needs, and force the programs
RM> to work on the 1st one - finally it’s a problem!!! Actually, the idea here is not the same, you need to read a little better
but in the cache you can modify the code, if you haven’t guessed, it all depends on
the drivers...

From Roman Petrov To All 3 December 1998

RM> crumbs, compared to the big variety...
DAMN, NO ONE TAKES TR-DOS FROM YOU!!! Combine it calmly. And TR-DOS
software cannot be launched under any new OS, since it feels too free
in memory ;-)

RM> remains hopeful... I also thought when I upgraded my
RM> Leningrad to a disk system :)
By the way, yesterday I decided to try to access TR-DOS from 128 ROM
by enabling 48 ROM with each access. It worked, and even without
brakes. I liked it. If Scorp did not have the annoying feature that it can only insert page 0 into the ROM area, then I would be able to run NeOS just fine on my Scorp without any modifications. That would be a problem... But, apparently, I'll have to install either a cache or a ROM emulator (if someone gives me its diagram and doesn't stupidly ironize).

RM> I'll give the example of sts-a again... and don't talk about the fact that it
RM> slows down. and in general, in my opinion, you have a complex on the brakes :)
Does sts constantly refer to other pages? And as for the complex, I don’t like
when something slows down (I suffered a lot in Windows '95, so I’m an ardent supporter of fast
working programs).
RM> it won’t slow down. it doesn’t take much time to clap pages on the
RM> spec (real :)...
And on the emulator it’s even faster, sono need to tease us with this ;-)

RM> ld a,0
RM> variabl equ $-1
RM> do you know?
Offend ;-) But if you wanted to set system variables
in this way, then it’s a bummer - system variables must be in a strictly
fixed place, otherwise with any change in the system everything The addresses will float and contacting the address becomes impossible. Storing intermediate results like this is a nice thing, but not system variables.

RM> I’ll allow myself to argue about this: now, IMHO,
RM> an unreasonably large number of people write unclaimed
RM> system software, when the majority just want to play.
Well, it’s quite possible, but not in our city ;-)
RM> In between writing software :)
Whoa.

From Roman Petrov To All 3 December 1998

RP>> I even completed it all (up to ~15%, I think).
RM> I completed it too. two hundred times :)
I played our Chopper Duel and my Scorched a lot too ;-)

RM> in the game itself there are disproportionately more of them than in the demo, however,
RM> after the release of the demo I removed and refined a lot... one
RM> I didn’t remove one feature - he pronounces it very relishly
RM> (on ay)...
Y, just don’t tell me so as not to ruin the buzz. I’d rather wait for the full version
and play myself!
RM> drive away the children - there’s a sea of blood :)
Isn’t it pouring out of the screen?
RM> or hide in the closet yourself if you’re <18 :)
How am I going to play? My hands from the closet can hardly reach the computer ;-)

From Roman Petrov To All 3 December 1998

The only memory that NeOS requires below is the area of system
variables and the sector read buffer (512 bytes, so standard 800k drives will not
be supported), which is also used as a temporary
area for various functions. And he needs everything else in the upper memory: a memory map and a system area of the interpreter (a buffer for the command line and something else).
DD> And about the fact that there are 3 bytes per call: the idea was to have
DD> _standard_ entry points into the system (and for a call you also need a resident
Now everything has been implemented in the form of a kernal, which is always in a fixed
place and for different versions similar functions can change places in the ROM, but in the
kernal they always remain in the same place IMHO, faster than RST and quite
convenient.

DD> ps: Is it really such a big problem with using EPROM, but
DD> change the versions of DOS - I don’t want to ;)
So I’m talking about the same thing ;-)

Bye, Denis! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Roman Petrov To All 3 December 1998

RM> "Down with, you know, labels!" :) and single-frame is not exactly
RM> exactly. single-int didn't go anywhere :)
Why is it inaccurate? Single-frame - for one frame, that is, for one frame. And the frame
on the Spectrum is 1/50 of a second.

RM> well, I just found fault with the scroller :) I didn’t see anything else
RM> :)
You’d better read the doc ;-)

RM> don’t scroll at all :) but this is probably not useful except for the dos itself
RM>...
Well, why, you can apply in compact text views apply where
the main thing is not the speed, but the size of the viewer.

RM> by the way, are system variables shiftable? in the book
Only the first ~30-40 bytes are non-movable (today it will be another 4-6 bytes shorter
), everything else is freely moving. The beginning of that area is indicated by
IY. Already thought out.

From Roman Petrov To All 3 December 1998

RP>> for example.
DD> Both now and immediately ;)
I hope that I can
provide you with the very, very basis on which something can be done soon enough.
DD> the current is no longer melon...
So what?

DD> comments (which I still remember): too mixed flag fields (everything is in the heap.
DD> It’s better to allocate a couple of extra bytes, but sort the system flags by function
DD> and purpose), and disk drivers... I don’t even know what you wanted
It won’t be a couple of extra bytes, it’ll be more. Moreover, what difference is there in how the flags are located? The treatment will be the same.
DD> to say this, but the list of drivers: trdos, msdos, isdos, hdd - this
DD> is there as it should be. You've got it all in a pile here. In fact, you need
DD> hdd.drv, cdrom.drv), and _file system_ drivers that will climb
Hmm, good idea! I'll take it into service. So soon 2 functions in the disk
system driver will fall off, but a driver for direct access to the disk will appear.
DD> to data through previous drivers (at least trdos.drv to cdrom.drv - who
DD> is stopping you from running trdos from a cidrom?! ;) sorry if I wrote it in lame
DD> (read state - origin :)
Just don’t act like a lamer, coder ;-)

Bye, Denis! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Roman Petrov To All 3 December 1998

RM> the system does not need to use ROM 48. the only exception is
RM> working with tyrdos, because under 128 bass it is not possible everywhere...
For the sake of this exception and nothing more. And in general, as I already wrote, I was able to work normally with tr-dos from ROM (I just pulled out the call to #3d2f into RAM in the system variables area).

RM> I'm glad that we come to an agreement. A little more, and you will completely
RM> rewrite it to work from the page :)
This will not be particularly difficult, but for now I still think that it is
more efficient to be in ROM (there is more space in RAM for programs).

RM> not so slow. this is a myth. Productivity of a depository
Not a myth. I formed a judgment about the slowness of inter-page functions
after writing an analogue of LDIR, but capable of throwing from one page to another.
It worked VERY slowly. The pages were clicked on #7ffd. But for the system
it is impossible to do it any other way.

RM> and what about the resident? By the way, no one limits it in size:
RM> 256 bytes are quite possible... for completeness :)
Better 512 - it will fit more ;-)
RM> and in 256 bytes you can push a turboloader - we tried it on
RM> Monday with Isaev...
RM> Or rather, he tried it, and I gave moral support :)
Well, how? In my area it takes up 320 bytes. And it easily reads disks of any
format (system variables are set), although not all errorscatches More precisely, it catches
but does not distinguish them.

RM> they will not be (critical). and you can throw them in for a while...
It’s possible, in principle, but if several of these functions are used and
there isn’t enough space for them, then again the brakes... Damn, how I love the brakes ;-)

From Denis Dmitriev To All 3 December 1998

DD>> ROM, but change DOS versions - I don’t want to ;)

RM> cheesy. then the cache... is expensive and inconvenient to search/install...

The system still needs to be loaded into the cache. And here - it’s already ready, built, with all
the necessary drivers, which the user himself pushed there - chic!
I don’t know about installation, there are no docks.

From Andrey Mikheev To All 3 December 1998

RM> especially from the tracked DT-75 :) I meant that what
RM> that was thrown into the echo does not show itself as an axis.

From Kirill Frolov To All 4 December 1998

Hi, Roman

It was 02 Dec 98 and 13:01:38, Roman Petrov wrote to Renat Mamedov
on the topic of NeOS and not only
Not seeing a moderator nearby, I decided to insert a word:

RP> Was. Well, what do you suggest? Scroll in a stack? And interruptions should be
RP> allowed, because not on all machines the screen can be thrown in one
interrupt
RP>.

It’s not just the 50Hz ticker that needs interrupts!
It’s worth thinking seriously about a normal interrupt system.

From Renat Mamedov To All 4 December 1998

RP> Oh, just don’t tell me so as not to ruin the buzz. I'd better
RP> wait for the full version and play it myself!

I immediately warn those who will ask questions:
(if there are any:) - I no longer remember all the details of the script,
I can publish it (after a while) and describe
the command language of the game in which this script is written...
except that I tell some secret (dead end, etc.) -
you have to force I have to go through the game again - I don’t think that
anyone will succeed :)

From Renat Mamedov To All 4 December 1998

RP> No, well, you can write your own little program with
RP> using these functions and before starting NeOS, load
RP> it into memory and call it using the CALL command.

Also tell me that this is how it should be :)

RP> PS: By the way, after more or less with tr-dos passable
RP> teach NeOS to work, throw it into the echo? At the same time with the updated
RP> document.

Publish the document in the form of text, and not in yuyuki...

bye.

From Renat Mamedov To All 4 December 1998

KF> What to do in Scorpio? (although I myself know - throw
KF> out of it).

this is from the series “go and shoot yourself” and “it’s weak to die?”...
(don’t take it literally, otherwise they’ll sue :)

uploading from a quarter is like loading from a disk. For example
when the computer starts, it polls for a space, and if not,
then we load it from memory. Otherwise from disk. There are options...
but it will work from memory. An additional plus is that it is packed in the zipper -> the conf is also optional...
however, the installer will become more complicated - but not much...

bye.

From Renat Mamedov To All 4 December 1998

RP> By the way, yesterday I decided to try to access
RP> TR-DOS from 128 ROMs by turning on 48 ROMs with each
RP> access. It worked, and even without brakes. I
RP> liked it. If Scorp did not have the annoying feature
RP> that he can only insert 0 pages into the ROM area, then I

this is his great opportunity. on stump without modifications there is nothing
such...

RP> would run NeOS perfectly on my Scorpio without any
RP> modifications. That would be a good idea... But, apparently, I'll have to install either a cache or a ROM emulator (if someone gives me the schematic for it, and isn't stupid to ironize).

buy 62256 (I looked for it at the time, but couldn't find it...)
and hang it on the ROM. The ROM/cache switch can first be done on the toggle switch. But in general there is some kind of standard. Based on
Glukovsky #EFF7 :)
the pinout is almost the same...

From Renat Mamedov To All 4 December 1998

RP> Just let’s not start here again about multitask! Denis Sotchenko and I (I hope I wrote it correctly) have already reached a consensus on this matter. I decided that multitask will be
RP> in the second version, fully compatible with the first (here
RP> only programs for multitask will have to be specially written
RP> or the old ones will have to be redesigned a little).

it was a joke :)

but seriously, the BIOS has the ability to replace
its text screen driver with another one, for example, there is
hardware text writer Do you understand what I'm getting at? :)

also on the keyboard, beeper and so on further...

config.syZ:

keyboard=A:DRIVERS/at'emulate'without'F10.drv\off
beeper=A:BEEPERS/silence.drv\test'on'start
video=A:VIDEODRIVES/80on32sprinter'rulez.drv
paper=1
inc=6
mouse=A:MOUSES/oldMICrosoftmouse.drv\no'button'here

and so on. in short, something like a command language...
I recently wanted to write it for the sprinter, but I didn’t
understand why it was needed there :) but the idea was good :)

bye.

From Renat Mamedov To All 4 December 1998

DD> Stop, people! Again, you're on your own!
DD> It's not written like a megademe here, damn it!
DD> Who the hell needs it, this scrolling? Even if it
DD> consumes at least a hundred interruptions
DD> - normal programs will scroll the directory on their own
DD>, and I hope there will be no abnormal
DD> ones at all. And there is no need to argue -
DD> when was the last
DD> time, using an offtopic, someone went to DOS and
DD> typed Dir to
DD> in order to look at the directory? :)

interesting question. As I understand it, Neos is needed to untie the programmer from the hardware. that is, to unload the warm (still)
thought... :) if the programs do everything themselves - why the heck
need this neos? Then someone doesn't like the memory driver, then something else... and why neos? to boot
from disk?

bye.

From Denis Dmitriev To All 4 December 1998

RP> What?
NAM.

RP> There won’t be a couple of extra bytes, there’ll be more. Moreover, what difference is there in how
RP> the flags are located? The treatment will be the same.
Mess is ugly. And it’s inconvenient for system extensions - if you ever need to add another flag to similar ones, it will be easier and more convenient to add it when a group of flags is specifically selected; and not shove it between
other flags from a completely different story.

...
RP> Just don’t act like a lamer, coder ;-)
The coder itself ;)

From Denis Dmitriev To All 4 December 1998

Great, Roman!

One day 03 Dec 98 at 14:26:20 comrade Roman Petrov noticed comrade
Renat Mamedov about , where I intervened:

RM>> not so slow. this is a myth. The productivity of the deposit
RP> is not a myth. I formed an opinion about the slowness of cross-page functions after writing an analogue of LDIR, but capable of throwing from one page to another. It worked VERY slowly. The pages were clicked on #7ffd. But for the
RP> system it is impossible to do it any other way.

Why was a 512-byte disk buffer sent down to you? use it, or at least part of it (first 512b to the buffer, then from it to the page) - 1024 commands
OUT (C),A less :)
or are you doing just that?

RP> (but programs for multitask will have to be specially written or a little
RP> altered old).
Essential.
2All: A real multitask for old programs is only possible when using
another processor that has a well-developed interrupt system; or
under an emulator ;)
Because each program immediately takes over all interruptions, leaving
absolutely nothing for the system. and even 8259 will not help if the program suddenly works with DI
(like many systems now). And you shouldn’t even stutter about NMI - even with just one
glitch you won’t end up with glitches, but what if there are hundreds and thousands of them per second?

From Roman Petrov To All 4 December 1998

I'm talking about the same thing. No, apparently everyone has already gone crazy with these demos and thinks
only by kEwL and these principles.
DD> Who the hell needs this scrolling anyway? Even if it consumes at least a hundred
DD> interruptions, normal programs will scroll the directory using their own
DD> forces, and I hope there will be no abnormal ones at all. And there is no need to argue -
You forgot one more area of application: some small programs for which
it is not the speed that is important, but their size. For example, a mini-shell of some kind.
DD> When was the last time, using an offtopic, did someone go to
DD> and type Dir to view the directory? :)
Me about six months ago ;-)

Bye, Denis! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Roman Petrov To All 4 December 1998

Hello, Denis!

On Thursday December 03 1998 Denis Dmitriev wrote to Renat Mamedov:

DD> The system still needs to be loaded into the cache. And here is a ready-made, rebuilt, with
Well, let's say, boot the system once when you turn on the computer (unless,
of course, resetting the cache does not reset).
DD> with all the necessary drivers that the user himself pushed there - chic! about
All the inconvenience when flashing into ROM comes down only to the inconvenience of updating
the system.

From Roman Petrov To All 4 December 1998

RP>> screw in a cool system?
AI> I said that we have only one sprinter and that one, thank God, is not mine.
Why “thank God”?

Bye, Andrey! With the best wishes, Megus of Brainwave.

From Denis Dmitriev To All 5 December 1998

Great, Kirill!

Once on 03 Nov 98 at 09:13:21 comrade Kirill Frolov noticed comrade
Roman Petrov about , where I intervened:

RM>>> packer and so on... is there/will it be?
RP>> Not yet, because the system does not yet have the most important thing - working with
disk
KF> Yes It makes sense to build a packer and unpacker into the system.

There is no point. For different data there will always be different packers
that pack them as efficiently as possible.
It’s better to leave it as it was - “self-running archives” so to speak :)
as a last resort - packers/unpackers in the form of drivers, so that the program
can always install your favorite one ;)

From Renat Mamedov To All 5 December 1998

IT> Slyushcha, darling, not everyone has more than 128 kilos, where to go after such a program? Or do it a la Is-Dos? Here, actually
IT> the idea is not the same, you need to read a little better, but in the cache you can
IT> and with modification of the code, if you haven’t guessed, everything depends on
IT> drivers...

I was fiddling with the bugs when rubles were still made from calfskin :).
Your system just has one huge drawback: it
is not bootable, although it could be... that is, a lot people
simply won’t deliver it...

From Renat Mamedov To All 5 December 1998

AM> What do you mean by the word axis? Maybe you judge axles
AM> by their appearance?

also, you know, an important factor...

From Dmitry Lomov To All 5 December 1998

Hi, Roman!

RM>> and if it’s single-frame - why not?
RM>> :)
RP> Nu-nu, joker. This is a hardware scroller on the Sprinter, but I have,
excuse me, a software one,
RP> and a universal one (it scrolls any window).

read - slow :(
unfortunately, on the Spectrum in such parts of programs as
scrolling and printing, system methods are of little use, in As
an example, you can take the same ISDOS. It turns out to be a brake...
I repeat, unfortunately... but in general, the system methods of the buzz.

RP>>> only such a driver is written. They can be easily changed. several drivers at once,

all brake :(

RP> and in the system variables (already) there is
RP> such a variable that indicates the driver address (precisely the address so that
calling
RP> goes faster).

and the first thing any program will do is rearrange this
thing to yourself.

All the best.
Dmitry.

..LD..X-TRADE..