Kempston mouse
ZXNet echo conference «real.speccy»
In the bytes read from the button port, after inversion, bits 2-7 are zero or are there
all sorts of random tops?
Are there already standards for the 3rd button and the wheel?
If not, then the 3rd button - 2 bits
wheel down - 3 bits
wheel up - 4 bits.
This will be used in plugin for Shalaev and in the mouse driver for RC 2.0,
accordingly, if in the next 3-4 days I do not hear reasonable objections, then in
comrades harders will have to do everything exactly according to this standard.
[I ZX] !mPeR!0
Hello, Pavel!
06 Nov 01 11:50, Pavel Demchuk -> All:
PD> In the bytes read from the button port, after inversion, bits 2-7 -
PD> are zero or are there all sorts of random tops?
Probably depends on the circuit. But this is not important, I don’t think that anyone is polling the button port via CMP. Usually by shift in CF or by AND.
PD> Are there already standards for the 3rd button and the wheel?
PD> If not, then the 3rd button is 2 bits
There has long been a standard for the 3rd button. On the D2 bit, like yours.
PD> wheel down - 3 bits
PD> wheel up - 4 bits.
PD> This will be used in the plugin for Shalaev and in the mouse driver for RC 2.0,
PD> respectively, if in the next 3-4 days I do not hear reasonable
PD> objections, then in the future fellow harders will have to do everything is exactly
PD> according to this standard.
I would move them to the end - i.e. on D7 and D6.
For 3 reasons:
- there are mice with 4 buttons - therefore sooner or
later they will hang it on D3;
- it is more logical to put all the wheel data in one nibble,
and not in the middle;
- if on D7/D6 - then you can move the register in CF. Although
maybe someone will move the button bits (0/1/2), and then
it will take longer...
PS. By the way, I have a Mitsumi mouse with a rocker, not a wheel...
In theory, it can be connected without any complex circuits.The rocking chair
firstly is pressed as the 3rd button, and secondly it also has 2 buttons
forward/backward tilt detection.
Sincerely, Evgeniy.
06 Nov 01 11:50, Pavel Demchuk wrote to All:
PD> In the bytes read from the button port, after inversion, bits 2-7 are zero
PD> or are there all sorts of random tops?
More often there is 1. But there may be tops.
PD> Are there already standards for the 3rd button and wheel?
There was a 3rd button from the beginning!
Tuesday 6 Nov 2001 11:50:28, Pavel Demchuk -> All:
PD> In the bytes read from the button port, after inversion, bits 2-7
PD> are zero or are there all sorts of random tops?
As far as I understand, it depends on the computer: if the SD is pulled up to 5V - there will definitely be zeros. Only in bits 3-7.
PD> Are there already standards for the 3rd button and the wheel?
PD> If not, then the 3rd button is 2 bits
Obviously, this is the standard.
PD> Wheel down - 3 bits
PD> Wheel up - 4 bits.
What nonsense? How is this to be questioned? Will it flicker or what? IMHO
it is much better and easier to make a wheel by analogy with X and Y coordinates: just
hang the wheel on the reversible 4-bit counter, just like
the coordinates are hung, and connect the counter itself to bits 4-7 of the button port. IMHO this will be an order of magnitude more convenient. Plus there are 3 bits left for further expansions.
PD> This will be used in the plugin for Shalaev and in the
PD> mouse driver for RC 2.0, respectively, if in the next 3-4 days I
PD> do not hear reasonable objections, then in the future the comrades
PD> harders will have to do everything exactly according to this standard.
Wai-wai-wai is just home-grown Bill Gates... Standard Maker... ;-)))
Sincerely, Dmitriy.
10 Nov 01 05:39, Kirill Frolov -> Pavel Demchuk:
PD>> Are there already standards for 3 buttons and a wheel?
KF> There was a 3rd button from the very beginning!
In the branded device from the Kemston company there were only *two* buttons, the rest are already
ours crafts.
Stanislav
SU> In the branded device from the Kemston company there were only *two* buttons,
SU> the rest is our creations.
Kirill meant that the hardware and driver in Spec initially
supported the middle button.
SU> Stanislav
Vega / ex-Style Group. November 15, 2001
SU> The branded device from the Kemston company had only *two* buttons,
SU> the rest is our handicrafts.
PD>> This will be used in the plugin for Shalaev and in the mouse driver
PD>> for RC 2.0, respectively, if in the next 3-4 days I
PD>> do not hear reasonable objections, then in the future the comrades
PD>> harders will have to do everything exactly according to this standard.
Damn. You need to use counters and nothing else... You can use
unused bits of the button port. Let's say a 4-bit counter will definitely be enough
and the circuit design will also turn out to be successful. There is a register of buttons, all that remains is to add
a bidirectional counter +- and that's it... I doubt that in 1/50 of a second you will be able to
scroll the wheel more than 16 divisions for us :)
To Pavel Demchuk:
Your idea about using 2 bits does not stand up to criticism...
Damn. You need to use counters and nothing else... You can use
unused bits of the button port. Let's say a 4-bit counter will definitely be enough
and the circuit design will also turn out to be successful. There is a register of buttons, all that remains is to add
a bidirectional counter +- and that's it... I doubt that in 1/50 of a second you will be able to
scroll the wheel more than 16 divisions for us :)
To Pavel Demchuk:
Your idea about using 2 bits does not stand up to criticism...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. A little bit of poetry about circuitry... :)
Comrades Spectrum harders. Why hasn't he been busy with _modern_
designing devices connected to the spec for a long time? It throws you into hot and cold weather from those
schemes for connecting the PC keyboard and mouse to the Speckie, for example using Z80, 2764
ROM, RU17... Some managed to get the controller on the alter... Surely there aren't any other pieces of hardware?
You don't have to go far, you can install one microcontroller (for example
MICROCHIP). For example, PIC16F876, clock frequency up to 20 MHz, 22 ports
(at least you eat a booty), if it’s not enough, you can take a peak at both 33 and 40 ports.
Electrically reprogrammable memory (EEPROM), timers and other bells and whistles.
TTL levels. All this is enough for the inputs of the keyboard, mouse and outputs to the address bus and
spec data bus, and this is withoutpiles of unnecessary logic for decoding,
counters and triggers :) The mouse also won’t have to be forced and
converted into a passive one. One small microcircuit, quartz, a couple of condensers and that's it
! Moreover, you can configure key combinations on the PC keyboard, mouse sensitivity, etc. Everything is saved in EEPROM even when the power is turned off. When adding
additional bells and whistles, installing decryption masks or the same scroll bar
you only need to reflash the PIC and that’s it. And no fiddling around with a soldering iron is necessary...
Such things. It’s a pity that I don’t have time to dig through the corpse of my Speckie :) Ah, then
it would be possible to make something like this :)
DN>> how?
PD> don’t talk nonsense.
PD> if you turn the wheel up, you will have 4 bits = 1.
PD> down - 3 bits = 1.
Tell me, in a unit of time I can turn the wheel by one angle,
or by 10 times greater angle. And scrolling will be in both cases at
the same speed, right?
PD> What counters?
binary.
OM> P.S. A little bit of poetry about circuitry... :)
OM>
OM> Fellow Spectrum-harders. Why not start working on
OM> _modern_ projects a long time ago....
Skipano.
Damn... I recently flew through the ZX SPECTRUM scheme... Also at its peak...
DN>> Standard Maker... ;-)))
PD> what to do? This is better than screaming
PD> about standards to no avail for months.
PD> So you come up with something for the future, otherwise you fart for no
PD> reason and consider yourself a hero.
You know what, dear, you YOURSELF asked everyone to express their opinion, after
I spent my time pointing out to you a mistake in the design
of the device, you came at me. If you had a little more intelligence, you would
try to find out what was meant since you didn’t understand anything, but apparently
you are just in that period of age: “I know everything, I’m the smartest, I
will now introduce standards, and everyone around me is fools.” Well, good riddance, but it’s not a fact that everyone around you will support your “standard”.
P.S. If I were you, I would apologize by the way.
Sincerely, Dmitriy.
Subject, Е”.
OM>> enable unused button port bits. Let's say a 4
OM>> bit counter is awesome. Your idea of using 2 bits
OM>> does not stand up to criticism...
EP> And there are mice with a rocking chair, not a wheel...
And there are mice with tails and teeth.
17 Nov 01 23:29, Oleg Maxsimuk wrote to Pavel Demchuk:
OM> yes, all that remains is to add a bidirectional counter +- and that's it...
OM> I doubt that in 1/50 of a second you can scroll the wheel more
OM> than we need 16 divisions :)
If the mouse turn it over and roll it over something suitable...
OM> You don’t have to go far, you can install one microcontroller (for example
OM> MICROCHIP). For example, PIC16F876, clock frequency up to 20 MHz, 22
OM> ports (at least you eat butt), if you can take a peak on both 33 ports and 40
OM> ports.
If you connect directly to the spec bus, then there may not be enough of them, and the reaction time
of the peak is not enough. External logic is needed. Therefore, the ideal option is to
use programmable logic.
OM> Electrically reprogrammable memory (EEPROM), timers, etc.
OM> bells and whistles. TTL levels.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Here the AVR comes to mind...
OM> All this is enough for the inputs of the keyboard, mouse and outputs to the address bus and
OM> speck data bus and this is without piling up unnecessary logic for
OM> decoding, counters and triggers :)
And WAIT on percent, howling music, leaving multicolors and freezing
programs...
OM> The mouse also won’t have to be forced and converted into a passive one.
So it will twitch like a pussy.
OM> One smallmicrocircuit, quartz,
Quartz is optional.
Well, to hell with this company, the company no longer exists as such...
... Life is shit, I'm going to hang myself...