Echo.

KIA

25 Aug 05 20:54, Ivan Kuvshinov -> All:

IK> that something is wrong somewhere. Who is Pentagon-1024SL for yourself, friends

What is this Pentagon?

[unsigned]

IK> People, I have only three letters here for August. There is an assumption
IK> that something is going wrong somewhere. Who is planning a Pentagon-1024SL for themselves, friends
IK>? Why isn’t it discussed here?
Well, that’s right - three. What's confusing? Maybe people only wrote three. Moreover
after all, it’s August, some are at parties, some in the gardens, some in resorts :)

With rules, Danil aka Merlin/ULG

25 Aug 05 20:54, Ivan Kuvshinov wrote to All:

IK> People, I have only three letters here for August.
Me too, if you don’t count these as mine. And the moderator is not visible...

- A.Coder [Wolf3d2004 InfoGuide7 ACEdit95 ACN42 PT3694 Chip13 HexFill HDDoct5]
[Ans0+3G 8col12 ZXRar27UnR58 Jpg42 CacVox1 Dbs07 Gluk61R PC21 Alasm50f2 Sts70i]

... ZX Spectrum today

/=== Begin Windows Clipboard ===/
I am pleased to announce that in the summer of 2005 the production of Pentagon-1024SL computers was launched.

Main technical characteristics:

+ The design is based on the Pentagon-128 circuit of 1993
+ CPU: Z80 or analogue
+ RAM: 1024k SIMM module (expansion ports #7ffd and #1ffd)
+ ROM: 64k (with the ability to access free 16k, there is also
the possibility of replacing ROM with the 0th page of RAM)
+ Kempston joystick
+ Kempston mouse
+ ZX Lprint III (implemented only hardware)
+ System bus ZX-BUS (2 slots). The IORQ chain is implemented on
KP1533LL1
+ A disk drive controller with a digital PLL (without 556PT4) and with
doubled positioning speed
+ A board with dimensions of 30x18 cm. A mounting field is provided for the installation of additional housings microcircuits (for those who cannot live without a soldering iron)

For those wishing to order a Pentagon-1024SL, I can offer
the following options:

1. Blank printed circuit board (ver 1.4), a complete set
of technical documentation (CD-ROM containing schematic and
wiring diagrams, a brief description of the circuit and assembly instructions and
configuration, as well as an archive with various useful information,
literature, programs in TRD format, etc.). - 600 rubles.

Notes: The boards were made according to the 3rd class of accuracy at the factory in
Zelenograd.This kit can be added to:
programmed ROM chip 27512 (order price
increases by 75 rubles), programmed microcontroller
PIC16C620/622 for Kempston mouse (order price increases by
100 rubles)

2. Assembled and configured printed circuit board (ver 1.4), complete
set technical documentation (CD-ROM containing schematic and wiring diagrams, a brief description of the circuit, etc., as well as an archive with various useful information, literature, programs in TRD format, etc.), 2 cables for external peripherals (monitor, keyboard, joystick, etc.) - on one side there is an IDC-34 socket. A set of connectors for external peripherals.
- 2500 rub.

Notes: Assembly time - maximum 2 weeks (usually it turns out
faster). The kit does NOT include a SIMM module and a music
processor AY-3-8910/YM2149F.

Other options are possible, they need to be discussed separately.

How to place an order is described in detail on the support website
Pentagon1024.narod.ru
With anyIf you have any questions regarding the Pentagon-1024SL, please contact me. My coordinates:

Telephones:
(095) 308-43-88 (on weekdays from 18.00 to 23.00 msk).
(09651) 5-69-23 (on weekends and holidays).
Email:
KingOfEvil!yandex.ru
Ordinary mail:
105568, Moscow, Chelyabinskaya 24k2 sq. 257.
(Zhabin Alexey)
/=== End Windows Clipboard ===/

IK>> friends
NS> What is this Pentagon?
What galaxy did you come from, brother in mind? ;-D

DD> Well, that’s right - three. What's confusing? Maybe people only wrote three and
DD>. Moreover, it’s still August, some are at parties, some are in the gardens,
DD> some are going to resorts :)
But now we’ll write more!
Who has a 384x304 (a device of 5 diodes or from a switch) and who is ready to solder it
? The software exists and will continue to be available.
Who has the “attribute per byte”? Any ideas for using it other than
viewing mcx pictures?

DD> What galaxy did you come from, brother in mind? ;-D
I didn’t know it was called SL :)

[unsigned]

NS> I didn’t know that it was called SL :)
That’s what they called it now (like to fool the buyers’ brains ;)), but in
its maiden name it was just Pentagon 128.

29 Aug 05 00:31, Dima Bystrov -> All:
DB> But now we’ll write more!
DB> Who has a 384x304 (a device of 5 diodes or from a switch) and who
DB> is ready to solder it? The software is there and there will be more. And who has the "attribute on
DB> bytes"? Any ideas for using it other than viewing mcx pictures?
I have neither one nor the other. As for readiness, that’s also a moot point, we need to read that it exists and why is it needed at all, and it’s long overdue for nothing less than “each
dot to have its own color.” What is mcx?

DD> They called it that now (as if to fool the buyers' brains
DD> ;)), but in its maiden name it was simply Pentagon 128.

And where to buy it? Or did I read poorly? ;)

[unsigned]

DD>> powder ;)), but in its maiden name it’s just Pentagon 128.
NS> And where to buy it? Or did I read poorly? ;)
If it is Pentagon1024SL, then contact Bystrov.

KIA

KIA

KIA

KIA

DB> Who has the “attribute for
DB> bytes”? Any ideas for using it other than viewing mcx pictures?
Especially about this. By the way, I think that it should be done immediately with the video logic accelerator, that is, so that it would be possible to set the hardware Xor, Or,
And or simply Copy modes when writing a byte of “dots” to video memory. This is simply
implemented, and, in my opinion, it can significantly speed up drawing all sorts of lines, etc. And you can even make a hardware ClearScreen (naturally -
disabled, or rather, turned on for one frame), so that right after the beam it would quietly
clean what has already been output in text applications, this, in my opinion, can
speed up the output, at least due to the fact that the line spacing will not be
drawn, and for vector graphics - a la Elite, too great.

By the way, All, I have a little bit of 1MB SIMMs and can give them away for free. And I
just remembered, today I dreamed of a Z80 percent, somewhere I dug it up - all
so dusty and too flat, and on it the cherry
foil letters Z80 shine so beautifully, and then in the dust there is something like that, and the glare is like that..
:-) I think it’s cool, but I see that some of the legs there are broken off.. - bullshitI solder
somehow, turn it on its side, and there are some under the root.. :-( That's where the dream
ends.. By the way, now I got a mega broken one, there's a co-production from Sharp
it seems that the Z80 is natural, but I heard that they are not quite typical Z80.
:-)

KIA

+ The design is based on the Pentagon-128 circuit of 1993
+ CPU: Z80 or analogue
+ RAM: 1024k SIMM module (expansion ports #7ffd and #1ffd)
+ ROM: 64k (with the ability to access free 16k, there is also
possibility of replacing ROM with 0th page of RAM)
+ Kempston joystick
+ Kempston mouse
+ ZX Lprint III (implemented only in hardware)
+ System bus ZX-BUS (2 slots). The IORQ chain is implemented on
KP1533LL1
+ A disk drive controller with a digital PLL (without 556PT4) and with
doubled positioning speed
+ A board with dimensions of 30x18 cm. A mounting field is provided for the installation of additional housings microcircuits (for those who cannot live without a soldering iron)

DB>> pictures?
DD> I don’t have either one or the other. As for readiness, this is also a moot point,
DD> you need to read that it exists and why is it needed at all,
384x304: watch ANSI in color, read 80 characters per line, look at pictures
of large size (for example, diagrams).
"attribute per byte" - for displaying converted pictures. You can make games for this
(for example, Hexagonal Filler, but it can be more beautiful).
DD> and no less
DD> than “each point with its own color” is long overdue.
“each point with its own color” is on ATM, but is almost never used. There are about 5
ancient toys for this - that's all. Although two of these toys are very decent.
DD> What is mcx?
two-screen multicolor.

IK> It’s impossible, the addressable space is 64 KB in total, and if you do it through
IK> one place like 80286, you will get - PC (Pizd.Ts :-) ).
IK> Attribute per byte - maximum for Speck and not because it is impossible to screw
IK> more, but because the requirement to pump a large amount of graphic
IK> information will not allow it to work normally, which will kill it or cause
IK> to mutate everything else upward: frequency (another percentage or
IK> additional), memory, disk, monitor.. in general, there won’t be such a Speck..

Sorry, but, to put it mildly, you are wrong, what if If it’s not soft, then I won’t speak so as not to be banned. Because modes greater than an attribute per byte have existed for many years
at least in three types of Spectrums -
Sprinter, ATM-1 and ATM-2(+). Let its users tell you more about Sprinter, but about ATMki I will say that it has both an “attribute per byte” screen (640x200) and a “custom color per pixel” screen (320x200 - 4 bits per color, two pixels per byte). What is interesting is that both the first and second types of screens
take up the SAME amount of memory there - exactly 32000 bytes (so
there is no fundamental difference between the “possible” attribute-per-byte mode and the
“impossible” high color resolution mode, as it turns out,does not
exist). Of course, such a volume imposes certain restrictions on working with screens, but it is precisely a limitation, and not an insurmountable obstacle. And
these screens are used not only for viewing pictures. And at the same time
no “mutation” of the computer occurred. For ATMok to work, the same
128Kb of memory is enough (which was sometimes installed before when there was a shortage of RU7).

So they froze stupidity, sir, without thinking...

P.S. A site where you can learn about ATM of all types, download its emulator and software -
http://atmturbo.nedopc.com

Maksagor, NedoPC group. ATM-turbo 2+

DB> “each point has its own color” is on ATM, but is almost never used. there are
DB> about 5 ancient toys for this - that's all. Although two of these toys are very
DB> even decent.

Dima, you are not entirely right. Firstly, there are several more toys. Secondly, there is also a certain amount of system software. Thirdly, it is used
by almost everyone who has ATM. Fourthly, there will be a sufficient number of
users (and our group will try), and there will be new support
of hundreds (let me remind you that since 1995 this clone has been practically in oblivion and is only now being revived). I will also try to do this. I promise new toys.
And in the more distant future, perhaps a graphical shell either for a new axis,
or for iS-DOS. And don’t tell me, Dima, that this is impossible - they used to say the same thing about RAR
until you took it up...

MT> Of course, such a volume. imposes
MT> certain restrictions on working with screens, but it is precisely a limitation
MT> and not an insurmountable obstacle.
Undoubtedly, difficulties are an additional incentive, but the restrictions are not only on the screen itself: all the code will be in additional pages, and wheresprites
stuffed in then for a fairly dynamic game, and can you imagine HOW MUCH
they will take up for such a resolution and how it will all slow down?

MT> And at the same time, no “mutation” of the computer
MT> occurred.
Yes, and why then don’t everyone have these screens, but make ZX-SVGA converters?

KIA

DD>> less than “each point has its own color”, it’s high time. Why
DD>> is mcx?
IK> You can’t do this, the addressable space is 64 KB in total, and if you do
IK> through one place like 80286, you will get - PC (Pizd.Ts
IK> :-) ). An attribute per byte is the maximum for a Spec and not because it is impossible
IK> to screw more, but because the requirement of pumping a large volume of
IK> graphical information will not allow it to work normally, that it will kill it
IK> or cause it to mutate everything else upward: frequency
IK> (another percentage or additional), memory, disk, monitor.. in general,
IK> there is no such Spec. there will be..
The Spectrum was created for this purpose, to make the impossible possible ;) There are memories,
disks can also be screwed in, so progress is happening little by little. What has always surprised me is this kind of crap - the musical and instrumental capabilities of the Spectrum have changed quite a few times since its birth (beeper, AY, covox, soundrive, GS, DMA, 2-AY). But the graphics were like this from the very
birth (at that time it was of course cool, just like the beeper), so
it was never modernized, only various perversions were invented. It's sad
however.

DD>> controversial, you need to read what it is and why is it needed at all,
DB> 384x304: view ANSI in color, read 80 characters per line, look
DB> large-sized pictures (for example, diagrams). "attribute per byte" - for
DB> output of converted images. You can make games for this (for example,
DB> Hexagonal Filler, but you can do it more beautifully).
How is it programmed? Withdrawal speed? And I remember such screens in cp/m,
they were terribly slow, given their clumsy addressing.

IK> I mean 512*192 attribute per byte. Half of the addressable memory under the
IK> screen + half of what is left under the ROM - isn't it too cool? I don't

Why so cruel? In fact, the screen can be located not in the main
memory, but in pages (and this is exactly the case!). In the ATM example, this is page 5 and 1 (or 7 and 3). So everything is fine with the address space. And
just don’t say that the need to switch pages greatly complicates
working with screens.

IK> I’m saying that with this approach nothing at all can be done, I
IK> I’m saying that in order to do something serious like CV, with

With such a memory organization as described by you, this is really the case. But
in fact, the reality is completely different - much more rational.

IK> such memory organization will have to be dealt with, to put it mildly, not
IK> programming, but God knows what, and - a bow on the side. As a result, either this

That's exactly what with such an organization of the screen layout in memory. But no one
has thought of such an arrangement yet... :o)

IK> there will be another useless hack, or they will screw up Spec
IK> there, and this can no longer be done without changing the architecture itself, what
IK> will be in the end - everyone can guess.

Well, I still can’t say about the CV. ACan you really call PRINCE of PERSIA (not the one from Nicodemus) converted one to one with PC-286 (same graphics, same colors)
for a 320x200 screen a craft? The game takes up about 500Kb on disk and requires only 128Kb to work. Another “exact” conversion is GOBLINS.
True, it already requires 512Kb of memory. But this is not a radical change in
architecture... Oh yes! These games run under CP/M, which means the
ROM is disabled there. But in fact (at least in Prince, as I briefly looked at it), if you want, having a ROM will not be a hindrance.

03 Sep 05 13:45, Maxim Timonin wrote to Ivan Kuvshinov:

MT> In general, I advise you to install the UNREAL 0.30b emulator and look at
MT> ATM graphics yourself, and then say what is possible and what is not.
You can use Unreal 0.27 (the latest author's version for W'9x)

KIA

IK>> or this
MT> Exactly what with this organization of the screen location in memory. But
MT> no one has thought of such an arrangement yet... :o)
They figured it out, they figured it out, with a video logic accelerator, the screen can
be used only for recording - reading is not required and it can be combined using
data with ROM.

MT> Well, I won’t say anything about the CV. But can you really call PRINCE of PERSIA (not
MT> the one from Nikodim) converted one-on-one with PC-286 (same
MT> graphics, same colors) for a 320x200 screen a craft? The game
MT> occupies about 500Kb on disk and requires only
MT> 128Kb for its operation. Another “accurate” conversion is GOBLINS. True, it already requires
MT> 512Kb of memory. But this is not a radical change in architecture... Oh yes!
MT> These games run under CP/M, which means the ROM is disabled there. But in
MT> in fact (at least in Prince, as I quickly watched it), if
MT> you want, the presence of a ROM will not be a hindrance.
I haven’t seen Goblins, and Prince of Persia, of course, is a worthwhile game, but with very
small requirements in terms of graphics, however here too: the volume is already half a meter..
What will happen if you make a game like StarCraft on a PC? As the resolution increases, the volumes
grow geometrically, plus a fairly strong constant for the number of sprites.. Where
do you think the mutation of the PC began - video and hard disk, forthe processor was drawn by itself -
386.. 64 bits and 4GB of memory (remember 640 KB should be enough for everyone? :-)), and for the
company, just on the wave - audio.
As a result, the computer is completely different, even from AGP there is nothing left and the processor no longer
rules, soon the main thing will be the graphics processor, and no one knows how it works inside, without an OS - on it there is nothing to do, only she will figure out a couple
hundred devices that are on the computer and just try to install the wrong version
of the driver for the motherboard.

IK> We figured it out, we figured it out, with a video logic accelerator, the screen can
IK> be used only for recording - no reading will be required and it can be
IK> combined with the ROM.

Yeah, what if, for example, I want to take a screenshot? No, what the hell... Moreover
we were not initially talking about the ability to read from the ROM...

IK> I haven’t seen Goblins, and Prince of Persia, of course, is a worthwhile game, but with very
IK> small requirements in terms of graphics, however here too: the volume is already
IK> half a meter.. What will happen if you make a game like StarCraft on a PC? With growth

By the way, the disk size of Nikodim's Prince for regular ZX graphics is also
about 450Kb. So the issue, apparently, is not so much in the graphics itself. In general, a good multi-level game itself is rarely small in volume. So
I don’t understand, what does this have to do with attacks on size? Yes, of course, the higher the color resolution of the graphics, the more voluminous the sprites will be, and, accordingly, the more voluminous the game. And then I ask, SO WHAT? This does not affect the possibility/impossibility of having “high” graphics on Specky. Another deviation from the topic! If the statement about the impossibility/lack of demand for such graphics on
Spectrum is your religious creed and no evidence
(and using real-life examples) means nothing to you, then soand
tell me, and I will be silent forever. For a symbol of faith is just that: a symbol that does not need proof, but requires only blind faith.

IK> resolution volumes grow geometrically, plus a fairly strong constant on the
IK> number of sprites.. Where do you think the mutation of the PC began - video and

Why the mutation? This statement alone is more than controversial. I personally don't agree with you. Just development. And whether in the right or wrong
direction is a topic for a separate discussion.

IK> hard drive, which brought with it a percentage of 386.. 64 bits and 4GB memory (remember
IK> 640 KB should be enough for everyone? :-)), and for company, just on the wave -
IK> audio.

What don’t you like about a hard drive (which, well, obviously doesn’t entail itself
obligatory progress of the processor) and a large amount of memory in principle? In my opinion (especially the first one) is a very convenient and correct thing. I use the screw on Spec
more often than the flop. And this is good.
We can still condemn the ADVANCED race for megahertz and
megabytes, organized by software and hardware manufacturing companies in order
to shake out the pockets of users when increasing parameters becomes an end in itself.
This is the root cause of changes on the PC, and not some kind of graphics and games for it.

IK> B as a result, the computer is completely different, even from AGP there is nothing left and percent

Again, a more than controversial statement.

IK> no longer rules, soon the main onethere will be a graphics processor, but no one knows how it works inside
IK>, without an OS - there’s nothing to do on it, just

And it’s still debatable. In any case, the problem here is not with the available video card, but with too many of them from many manufacturers and with very different
standards. If there were one standard, there would be detailed and accessible documentation on its use. So the actual graphics have nothing to do with it.
By the way again!

IK> it will figure out a couple of hundred devices that are on the computer and just
IK> try installing the wrong version of the driver for the motherboard.

An operating system in any case and on any computer is gut! Including on
spec. TR-DOS Mazda, iS-DOS (CP/M, NeOS... and further on the list) foreva!

IK>> tall
MT> By the way, the size on the disk of Nicodemus Prince for regular ZX-graphics
MT> is also about 450Kb.
But in zip-packed form it (cracked by phantasy) weighs only 133739 bytes
:)

DD> How is it programmed?
#eff7 bit 0 is turned on, in #6000 an attribute area appears, lined like a
screen.
DD> Output speed?
as usual, only 2 times slower, because 2 times larger area.
DD> I remember such screens in
DD> cp/m, they were terribly slow, considering their clumsy addressing.
I don’t know what programs they were slowing down under :)

MT> Why mutation? This statement alone is more than controversial. I,
MT> personally, do not agree with you. Just development. And in the right or
wrong direction is a topic for a separate discussion.
Development has its own framework and consciously established laws, and mutations
occur spontaneously: in “narrow” places, either one abscess will pop up, or something else
breaks, moreover, they are repaired with an unnecessary reserve and deviations from the main
functionality: so balance is never achieved and the result is a mutant
(no brains, but strength is immeasurable - but why is it needed if there is
nothing to manage: again they add brains, only specialized ones, but in excess, and..
the vicious circle is closed). behind
MT> is the obligatory progress of the processor) and a large amount of memory in principle?
This is all good and I like it, I just illustrated the trend: there were constantly imbalances and something was constantly missing, even when it had already reached sky-high heights and precisely because of the imbalance, and not the backwardness of technology. In
Spectrum everything is almost balanced, you have to approach it wisely, understanding that one
will lead to the other and there will be a back wave and so on untilinfinity, but you can
do it normally right away. On the PC, the graphics were rather weak - they did it, immediately the disk began to not be enough - they did it, now the percentage was tense, and they pushed it, again the graphics “sagged”, they screwed it up again, again the disk began to be missing and in general everything was bursting at the seams - they changed all the fucking tires and thank God there was a DVD. Now
the disk is enough for the time being, only it is filled with unnecessary things, they will grab the processor too,
only it is also filled with unnecessary things and in general no one looks at his efforts, the tires
cope, pumping up meaningless traffic, and the video again does not satisfy, with
such and such power of the processor.. we build up a video... should we continue? Well, in the end -
the owner ate rotten apples all the time, having a full cellar of fresh ones.
Your solution is to make a video if there is an obvious insufficient memory or speed
of the processor and the speed of switching pages. Let's somehow regain our memory - it turns out that now _you can_ still raise the resolution (and it is precisely because of the imbalance that this will be necessary) - we'll catch up, but of course - it's not in vain that the previous improvement was made! Next, it's up to the hard drive, or rather the tires - a scenario that seems to be well-known?
It is necessary to improve the systems carefully, so that there are no obvious distortions,
then there will be no urgent need, as a result - users
will be satisfied, the product will always be, if not fresh,then it will not be rotten, but development
will proceed more intelligently and evenly, and precisely - development, and not mutation under
the influence of irresistible momentary forces. The whole difference is in quality, not quantity.
To work with large volumes of external data, Speck has everything, but within reasonable limits, he doesn’t need 100 GB of disks, and if we are talking about the speed of the external bus, then even there it is necessary not to increase the frequency by connecting 133 MHz, but to approach it qualitatively, making, for example, DMA and simplifying the access itself - not through BIOS subroutines (as on a PC - counting heads) and complex control through a controller with the shamanism of ROMs, and a flash drive and work like with memory, only
slow, etc.

MT> In my opinion (especially the first one) is a very convenient and correct thing. I use the screw
MT> on the Speck more often than the flop. And that's good. You can still condemn
MT> the ADVANCED race for megahertz and megabytes, organized
When will someone finally ask the question - why is it ahead?
Why was there enough of everything on the Mac, but not on the PC? an end in itself. This is
:-)
In fact - they did their job and, often well, it was all the fault of
users who grabbed what they could not fully manage and
had to grab further -This is an open architecture, everyone is their own designer-engineer, only this “engineer” does not produce anything. As a result
orientation has become generally towards a mythical device and there are practically no satisfied people left, everyone has something slowing them down due to something and everyone wants to solve it, but they cannot do it correctly, because companies are looking for solutions only in their own direction and for their devices, and the so-called end-user engineer actually has no control over anything, if only because of time limits, perhaps he will put together a balanced system, but it will be
outdated and no one needs at that time, and no one enjoys running around with old toys and
programs when there is no opportunity to at least look at the new ones.
Although some stopped, like me, for example, on the K6-2+ 550 + Win95 - everything
needed, it does Mp4 and sound and games, and even 3D, whatever is in the software. And if in this
configuration there were 2 GHz percents, a 3D card would obviously be needed, otherwise nafik it is needed, for it
a new bus and memory, an OS for them, then we install the game and change the hard drive for it and
off we go.. and again there is not enough processor.. - it is enough to spread this series
by time with games (the main consumer product), they then need the percent
of which else it didn’t happen, the video will be released only in a year and it was and will always be like that. In principle, everything is fine individually, but together it doesn’t work,It does not result in a one-time balanced system. And if the car doesn’t arrive until tomorrow, what’s the point of straining and running with the bags when you can kick them down to the loading point? We will get an ideology of laxity in software, and software influences hardware - this cannot be denied, in the end we will get a bad
platform and lame users: everything will bend or will exist in
an obscene form, which would be better if it did not exist at all.

04 Sep 05 15:51, Ivan Kuvshinov -> Danil Davydov:
IK> I would like 512*192, but why more?
Personally, this resolution would be enough for me, but so that each point has its own
color, well, a little more colors.

IK> Or let's breed
IK> percent Z80 in some kind of alter, and even 32-bit at once,
You can use other methods, rather than writing. For example, as is done in the Amiga - the allocation of resources to special chips. And PC is not an example to follow,
rather an anti-example.

IK> Tr-Dos, for some people this is already a very big mess and
IK> is the source of a very large number of glitches,
Yes, in my opinion, he has the least glitches. More debate about memory
and synchronization.

04 Sep 05 16:03, Ivan Kuvshinov -> Maxim Timonin:
IK> Not the right word! Can you imagine how something sawtooth-like,
IK>, will be drawn from some vector toy: first we click in one direction, then
IK> in the other, and so on until we lose our pulse, just to draw a couple of
IK> points, and how the performance of vector graphics will suffer in
IK> such cases, which just does not require much space for sprites and
IK> should have been, on the contrary, more comfortable? Only direct address
IK> space under the screen, otherwise it’s a PC approach, I personally think so
IK>, that’s it.
Vector graphics are generally a difficult matter for the Spectrum, it’s very difficult to do without
bells and whistles. For such things, I think it would be necessary to develop a special
video controller so that you could send scripts or codes to it
what to do, and it would quickly draw everything itself. Power sharing
rules :)

IK> We figured it out, we figured it out, with a video logic accelerator, the screen can
IK> be used only for recording - no reading will be required and it can be
IK> combined with ROM.
I remember this question was raised recently. At times
you also need to read from the screen, it seems to be required when drawing the same vectors. Yes, and with
raster graphics, all sorts of overlays toowill be needed.

IK> I haven’t seen Goblins, and Prince of Persia, of course, is a worthwhile game, but with very
IK> small requirements in terms of graphics, however here too: the volume is already
IK> half a meter.. What will happen if you make a game like StarCraft on a PC?
Maybe it’s better not to do this, and sit quietly dying out on 48K machines with
tape recorders? An eternal debate, however. I am for progress, of course reasonable, and not the kind that the giants show us.

DB> But in zip-packed form it (cracked by phantasy) weighs only
DB> 133739 bytes :)

And ZIP-packed ATM Prince weighs 259Kb. The difference is not fatal. So
what?

DB> for v0.27 Win9x is enough. I ran Prince and the Goblins on it.

It's good.

DD> Personally, this resolution would be enough for me, but so that each point
DD> has its own color, well, a little more colors.
For a simple Soviet person, 256*192 with 16 colors, not divided into
bitplanes (programmed very conveniently) is enough. The dumbest way to implement this on a computer X is to push the dreaded WAIT to the processor across the entire screen field and give all the clock cycles to the video controller. As a result, the machine will slow down by 34% (remaining
66%) in RAM, but will not slow down in the cache (not on screen operations,
of course).

- A.Coder [Wolf3d2004 InfoGuide7 ACEdit96 ACN42 PT3695 Chip13 HexFill HDDoct5]
[Ansi04 8col12 ZXRar27UnR59 Jpg042 CacVox1 Dbs07 Gluk61R PC21 Alasm50f2 Sts70i]

... ZX Spectrum today

DD> You can use other methods, rather than writing. For example, as in
DD> Amiga it was done - the distribution of resources to special chips. And the PC is not
DD> an example to follow, rather an anti-example.
This is really a way out, but so far there has been nothing of that kind, and the 512
regime, in my opinion, will solve most of the pressing problems. Unless they wanted to use GeneralSound
for other purposes :-)

DD> Yes, in my opinion, it has the least number of glitches. More debate
DD> about memory and synchronization.
There really aren’t many glitches, but the internal
mechanisms are still quite confusing to understand: in order to really understand it and work with it correctly
you need to read a well-known book or more than one year of time.

KIA

DD> I remember this question was raised recently. Sometimes you also need to read from the screen
DD>, it seems to be required when drawing the same vectors
DD>. Yes, and with raster graphics and all sorts of overlays,
DD> will also be needed.
This is what I described above and this is what I meant by “video logic accelerator” -
what could be easier to implement in hardware than four logical operations?

IK>> very small requirements in terms of graphics, however, here too:
IK>> the volume is already half a meter.. And what will happen ifmaking a game like
IK>> StarCraft on a PC?
DD> Maybe it’s better not to do this, and sit quietly dying out on
DD> 48k machines with tape recorders? An eternal debate, however. I am for progress,
DD> of course reasonable, and not the kind that the giants show us.
Me too.

DD> Should we just move on?! Easy to say! You can refuse everything
Yes, I was lying, only where they are actively writing programs and can remake
old ones - on the PC one software was simply replaced by another, including games, and
better and more convenient versions, so no one cried about the old ones. ZX
has its own specifics, the programs are of high quality and it is
problematic to write better ones.

KIA

06 Sep 05 13:25, Ivan Kuvshinov -> Danil Davydov:
IK> I have already said that I consider high resolution in itself not
IK> an advantage, you need at least 128 colors (you have to look here, I
IK> just halved the 256 color classics), but obviously not 16. Otherwise everyone
IK> knows that it is possible compensate for colors with resolution and vice versa, but this
IK> turns out badly - for example, chunks and ditering for halftones (
IK> methods are clear when converting color images into a two-color image).
Well, dithering is also one of the ways out. On the Amiga, for example, I saw such 3D-demons, pixel by pixel they would slow down quite a lot, but it looks quite good (colored chunks) and everything spins quickly. Why Amiga, look how
chunks/monkeys rule on the Spectrum =) And the impossible is possible :)
By the way, on the pisyuk many old toys are also almost chunky, they are all
some kind of squares.

DD>> it would be necessary to develop a special video controller so that you could
DD>> send scripts or codes to it, and then it would
DD>> quickly draw everything. Power sharing rules :)
IK> This will probably be a little complicated.
Well, technology has now stepped far forward, so if you do everything using fine logic
it will certainly be a bit complicated :) You have to actively use different sophisticated
chips, then there will be a scarf for several cases.

IK> I have already announced the simplest option:
IK> you can be able to write separate ones bits in a byte - which
IK> is equivalent to point-by-point access, that is, Xor mode, for example,
IK> the hardware is installed and you can reset which ones you need; AND - set,
IK> these are standard operations for working with masks in graphics, even sprites
IK> flop around like this, as a result there will be a significant acceleration for many things -
IK> because all this will be done “instantly” without the participation of the processor and reading from
IK> video memory will no longer be necessary in everyday situations.
This is possible, but only if it is an addition to new graphics modes, and People have already learned to cope with a standard screen. But with high
resolutions, software rendering will undoubtedly slow down.

DD>> dot with its own color, well, a little more colors.
DB> For a simple Soviet person, 256*192 with 16 colors, not
DB> divided into bitplanes (programmed very conveniently) is enough.
All ordinary Soviet people will soon die out ;) So the “dot to color” graphics
in my opinion now is the bare minimum. Otherwise, even children can’t
scribble in color in a graphic editor, does that matter?!

DB> The dumbest
DB> way to implement this on computer X is to put the terrible WAIT
DB> on the processor in the entire screen field and give all the clock cycles to the video controller.
DB> As a result, the slowdown of the machine will reach 34% (66% will remain) in RAM, but
DB> in the cache will not slow down (not during screen operations, of course).
We’ll leave stupid methods for stupid people :) like small-scale intelligence.

DB> For a simple Soviet person, 256*192 with 16 colors, not
DB> divided into bitplanes (programmed very conveniently), will be enough. The dumbest
DB> way to implement this on computer X is to put the dreaded WAIT on the
DB> processor across the entire screen field and give all the clock cycles to the video controller. The slowdown of the
DB> machine will eventually reach 34% (there will be
DB> 66%) in RAM, but it will not slow down in the cache (not on screen operations,
DB> of course)
Purely my sick, drunken opinion:
people killed the Sprinter, where there was almost everything that could be squeezed out of classic Spectrum architecture, are now groaning.. As a result, we have something _very_ crude like
underperegon 1024 ala "do it yourself" but "maybe someday solder" a board at the same price. In principle, it’s high time to come to terms with “c00lClaZZicSpectrum”..
In general, we got what we wanted...
There won’t be anything new anymore.
In my opinion, only ATM-Turbo2 and the company are doing something now, for which they have my
respect and respect, but as usual the rest of the people are only in dreams, and
dreams about “Freebies” are therefore lost, forever...

Zee: Maybe it seems to some that I’m judging harshly, but in just a year and a half of working in the repair business, I realized more than once that “The client is always wrong” and
“the client is always wrong”, plus _most importantly_ “The client who brings crap -the most savage client in the relationship."
Let them kick me with tomatoes, but in relation to today's community of supposedly former Spectrumists, all these rules apply.
Yes, they always acted, what to hide.. One's shirt is closer, one's own bed is closer.. And a person grows, his views change all the time.. Relax and
have fun, so to speak..

My drunken dreams, let them laugh me to death:
Z80e at maximum as the main percentage, the closest compatible to it is
z80, where the “standard Spectrum” will be executed. The standard processor works
in parallel, only AY, FDD, etc. are available to it. COM, and keyboard/mouse through emulation.
Eshka has access to everything directly (well, FDD and AY can only be left on the z80), plus she
can “pretend” for the z80 like HDD and GeneralSound, i.e. everything else
is done by her. We get an almost multitasking system. parallelize everything you can, then you can get the thing..
It’s a pity, but it’s all to blame for dreams, dreams, dreams (c)almost Aria..

Bye

07 Sep 05 22:43, Alexander Araktcheew wrote to Dima Bystrov:

AA> people killed the Sprinter, where they lost everything that could be squeezed out of
AA> the classic architecture of the Spectrum, now they are groaning..
I didn’t kill it! when the Sprinter was being sold, I was a student, I simply had no MONEY on my hands. Now I have 6 working computers (4 ZX and 2 PC), and my
Mom simply won’t let me buy a new one.
AA> As a result, we have
AA> something _very_ crude like underperegon 1024 ala “do it yourself” but
AA> “maybe someday you don’t have to solder” a board at the same price. In principle, it's long ago
AA> time to come to terms with "c00lClaZZicSpectrum".. In general, what they wanted is what
AA> they got... There won't be anything new.
there will be! for example, the ROM is in the child state. Only this year
the first two serious firmwares appeared (one is mine for the Pentagon, the other
Maxagora+Ukms[z] for ATM). and SEPARATELY, in the same year - Matlash firmware with
transparent access to the HDD (which can’t do anything else except this).
the functions of these firmwares almost do not overlap! they need to be combined with all their might!
and at the same time I have big plans for new functions in the ROM! work
no end of work!

AA> COM, and keyboard/mouse via emulation. Yeshka has access to everything directly (well
AA> FDD and AY can only be left on the z80), plus she can"pretend"
AA> for z80 as HDD and GeneralSound, i.e. everything else is done by it.
AA> We get an almost multitasking system. If you take a thicker plisse and
AA> parse everything you can, you can get the thing.. It’s a pity, but it’s all
AA> dreams, dreams, dreams (c)almost Aria..
The main thing is the software! While there is no system disk (and there isn't one yet!), there is no point in talking about
the exhaustion of the ZX's hardware resources!

The extended screen that we are discussing here is only one of the CAPABILITIES
of the computer. it may or may not exist (a NUMBER of programs that provide some FUNCTIONS will not work). everything depends on the size of the memory and the presence of
IDE devices.

So much memory is needed so that the OS can reserve pages for its needs -
that is, in any case, more than 128k. There are indeed pages on Pentagon1024 and Scorpio
that the program will never get into. On
KAY1024, due to the exotic nature of the addressing, we can assume that too. On ATM2 you can generally organize page redirection, because pages are still
switched through a point in the ROM. Unfortunately, Profi has problems. Due to
the increased standardization of the #dffd port, programs see Pro's memory as
flaking - all down to the last page. True, there are not many of these programs, and
you can remake those that are still in use.

IDE just has to be there. HDDreplaces both the extended ROM and the ramdisk. You can even stream movies from it in decent quality, without thinking about the packaging at all. On it you can transfer tons of information to/from a friend, and from/to computer, without worrying about creating a ZX<->PC network. And on a CD you can put music of such quality that GS never dreamed of, and play it (by a software command!) during any actions, without taking up the processor's time.
That's how much this little card with 6 microcircuits replaces!

By the way, can I finally wait for the Extreme
Tracker source code? :)

September 11, 2005 (and it was then 00:33)
Dima Bystrov in his letter to Alexander Araktcheew wrote:

DB> IDE simply must exist. The HDD replaces both the extended ROM and
DB> ramdisk. You can even stream movies from it in decent quality, without thinking about the packaging at all. On it you can transfer tons of information
DB> both to/from a friend, and from computer to computer, without having to worry about creating a network
DB> ZX<->PC.

Not necessarily HDD. I solved the problem of quickly transferring information from PC to
ZX (although only in this direction for now) this way: I burn a CD-RW on the PC, write on
it what needs to be uploaded to the spec. Then I read this disc using CD_Walk
(it’s great that I once wrote it :) Now I’ve found it useful myself). Yesterday
I transferred in this way a bunch of software that came to me recently via echo
ZX.SPECTRUM. It's cool that you can then clear the disk and write to it
again...

FIDO: 2:5030/1512 ZXNET: 500:812/19 E-mail: veg...@mail.ru ICQ: 144932679

Moderator of Ru.Baika, Moderator of Ru.Etymology, CoModerator of Ru.Masyanya

11 Sep 05 00:33, Dima Bystrov -> Alexander Araktcheew:
DB> Enough memory is needed so that the OS can reserve pages for its
DB> needs - that is, in any case, more than 128k. There really are pages on Pentagon1024
DB> and on Scorpio that the program will never get into
DB>. On KAY1024, due to the exotic nature of addressing, we can consider
DB> that too. On ATM2 you can generally organize page redirection,
DB> because pages still switch through a point in the ROM. Unfortunately, Profi has problems. Due to the increased standardization of the #dffd
DB> port, programs see the Pro memory as peeling - all the way down to the last
DB> page. True, there are not many of these programs, and it is possible to remake those
DB> of them that are still in use.
No, well, they have lived to the point of senile insanity! :) At first they fought for the standardization of
memory ports, and now we are complaining that suddenly the Pro used one
such a good port, and some infection programs still see it ;))) For the Pro
this is a plus, not a minus.

AA>> “pretend” for the z80 as HDD and GeneralSound, i.e. everything else
AA>> is done by her. We get almost a multitasking system. If you take a thicker
AA>> velvet and parallelize everything you can, you can get a
AA>> thing.. It's a pity, but it's all to blame for dreams, dreams, dreams (almost) Aria..
DB> The main thing is the software! While there is no system disk (and it doesn’t exist yet!), there is no point in talking about
DB> the exhaustion of the ZX’s hardware resources!

DB> the extended screen that we are discussing here is just one of the
DB> CAPABILITIES of the computer. it may or may not exist (a NUMBER of programs that provide certain FUNCTIONS will not work). everything depends on
DB> memory size and the presence of IDE devices.
Unfortunately, everything is very fragmented and works differently for everyone...

DB> You need enough memory so that the OS can reserve pages for its
DB> needs - that is, in any case, more than 128k. There really are pages on Pentagon1024 and
DB> on Scorpio that the
DB> program will never get into. On KAY1024, due to the exotic nature of the addressing, we can assume that
DB> too. On ATM2, you can generally organize page redirection, because
DB> pages are still switched through a dot in the ROM. Unfortunately, the Pros have problems. Due to the increased standard of the #dffd program port
DB> they see the Pros' memory as peeling - all down to the last page. True, there are not many of these
DB> programs, and it is possible to remake those of them that are still
DB> in use.
As usual, a heated file in your teeth and off you go.
Now, probably, most developers, I think, have the switches
of upper memory standards soldered on.

DB> IDE just has to be. The HDD replaces both the extended ROM and the ramdisk.
DB> You can even stream movies from it in decent quality, without
DB> thinking about the packaging at all. On it you can transfer tons of information to and from
DB> each other, and from computer to computer, without worrying about creating a ZX<->PC network.
DB> And on a CD you can put music of such quality that GS never dreamed of, and
DB> play it (by a program command!) during any actions, without taking up
DB> processor time. That's how much this little
DB> scarf with 6 microcircuits replaces!
It still needs to be shoved somewhere.
And I assembled this scarf, although I never fully launched it :)

DB> by the way, can I, after all, finally get around to it, the source code for Extreme
DB> Tracker? :).-
pposhlo already almost 2 years ...

Bye

September, 10, 2033 23:33 Dima Bystrov Wrote to Alexander Araktcheew :

DB> actions without taking up CPU time. That's how much this little scarf with 6 microcircuits replaces
DB>!

What hard drives?!! What drives?!! A hammer drill is in your hands and
a magnetic drum with fixed heads!!!

DD> No, well, we have lived to the point of senile insanity! :) At first they fought for
DD> standardization of memory ports, and now we are complaining that something suddenly happened
DD> The Pro used one such good port, and some
DD> infection programs still see it ;))) For the Pro, this is a plus, not a minus.
And for the OS it is a minus. But don’t be upset - the last 1-2 pages on Profi 1M
are probably not used even by copiers. If they do not fill the buffer from the end
:(

Total for the needs of the system:
on Pentagon1024 - memory by OR #20
on Scorp256 - 8th page
on Profi1024 - last pages
on Profi256/512 - none
on KAY1024 - a piece of memory in which #7ffd bit 7 is installed and one of two
memory addressing bits in #1ffd (but there are programs that see the entire 1024k memory),
in a word, the same very last pages
on ATM1 - memory above 128k (but there are programs that can see it)
on ATM-turbo2+ - all memory above 128k (may even be protected)
on Pentagon128/512 - cache, if it exists (some programs corrupt the 1st page
of the cache, but no one touches the 0th page)

output: AXIS is possible.

DD> No, well, we have lived to the point of senile insanity! :) At first they fought for
DD> standardization of memory ports, and now we are complaining that something suddenly happened
DD> The Pro used one such good port, and some infection programs
DD> still see it ;))) For the Pro, this is a plus, not a minus.

So no one argues with this. The point is different: due to the prevalence of the PROfi standard, it becomes problematic to place additional services in its upper memory. And this is just a fact, and not identifying any disadvantages and not “attacking” this clone.

What (or what) should I use to make the image of a screw and what should I do with it next and what should I use to break it, etc. ?
Let's say about 650MB....
In general, I've never tried it, but yesterday it didn't work out on a whim;)

Renamed the movie *.avi to spec.hdd, connected it to emul
and tried to format it ;)
It didn't work...

Bye Dima!

... 73! -= US5MTL =-

DD>> minus.
DB> And for AXIS minus. But don’t be upset - the last 1-2 pages on
DB> Profi 1M are probably not used even by copiers. If they don't
DB> fill the buffer from the end
DB> :(
I don't really understand what we're talking about. There is memory and that's good. The fact that it can also be switched
by a common port is generally great! If there is memory
(no matter what machine) - that means there is software for it, at least the same
copiers. So there's no talk of any hidden memory at all. Something you you invent problems for yourself 8)

14 Sep 05 12:24, Andrey Degtyarev -> Dima Bystrov:
AD> From what (or with what) to make a real screw image and what
AD> to do with it next and what to break it with, etc. ?
The question is probably more about ZX.SPECTRUM. It seems like it’s only about real markets?
I’m sick of emuls and their users, dammit! :)

DD> For some reason I don’t understand very well what we’re talking about. There is memory and that's good. The fact that
DD> it also switches with a common port is generally wonderful!
DD> If there is memory (no matter on which machine) - that means there is software for it,
DD> at least the same copiers. So there is no talk at all about any hidden memory
DD>. Somehow you are inventing problems for yourself 8)

The point was that any OS makes its own requirements and imposes its own
limitations. This means that if you start living under a hypothetical AXIS, you will have to give up something in order to gain a hundredfold new opportunities. In this
case we are talking about a possible limitation on the use of memory above 128Kb, and
meaning a limitation on the use of some copiers and other
programs.

September, 13, 2033 21:49 Dima Bystrov Wrote to Danil Davydov :

...And which of our 128 Spectrum-shaped machines are closest
to the branded 128 Spectrums in terms of circuit design and performance
- Pentagon, Profi, ATM, or not one of these three?

... put it on the cover for the gr-o-obic!!!!

DB> DB>> a scarf with 6 microcircuits!
AA> It still needs to be shoved somewhere.
AA> And I assembled this scarf, although I never fully launched it :)
Software only began to be written in 2004 - so I didn’t launch it...

AA> It would be easier to tell you... Well, I think you already guess :)
AA> In general, I gave all the remains of Alexey Porfiryev’s (author of ET) discs
AA> to Alx. He even said that he pulled something out of there, but what exactly I
AA> had already forgotten - almost 2 years had passed...
I'll write to him

DD> For some reason I don’t quite understand what we’re talking about. There is memory and that's good. The fact that
DD> it also switches with a common port is generally
DD> wonderful! If there is memory (no matter what machine it is on), that means
DD> there is software for it, at least the same copiers. So there is no question of any
DD> hidden memory at all. You're creating problems for yourself
DD> 8)
Where should I put the STS? What about buffers to support FAT? And what about the OS itself? What about buffers for reading
from archives?

DD>> and there is software for it, at least the same copiers. So there is no talk at all about
DD>> any hidden memory. You're creating problems for yourself
DD>> 8)
DB> Where should I put the STS? What about buffers to support FAT? And what about the OS itself? And what about buffers
DB> for reading from archives?
So put your loved one in it, in memory. :))) Are there any other options? ;)

17 Sep 05 11:07, Konstantin Denisov -> Dima Bystrov:
KD> ...And which of our 128 Spectrum-shaped machines are the closest
KD> to the branded 128 Spectrums in terms of circuit design and execution
KD> - Pentagon, Profi, ATM, or not one of these three?
Depending on what parameters. In synchronization, the Pros seemed to praise that it was similar to
the original 8) Memory on 7ffd also uses incomplete addressing.

KD> September, 13, 2033 21:49 Dima Bystrov Wrote to Danil Davydov :

KD> ...And which of our 128 Spectrum-shaped machines are closest
KD> to the branded 128 Spectrum machines in terms of circuit design and execution
KD> - Pentagon, Profi, ATM, or not one of these three?

KD> ... put it on the lid for the coffin!!!!
Get out of the coffin, your head is pinched by the lid.
First read FAQ ZX.SPECTRUM, then stay there feel nostalgic if
doesn’t drag you back to the grave.

Bye