A heartbreaking sight.
ZXNet echo conference «real.speccy»
So, I was inspired to make myself a 512 by 192 screen. I printed out the circuit diagram, laid it out in front of me, and laid out the scorpion circuit diagram. And... Mom, take me back!!! So my board is all covered in wires (ALK sometimes likes to make fun of my computer, testing out new circuits), and then there’s this circuit where I have to cut/solder the tracks all over the vast board... And I also wanted to install the space and expand the memory... Where should I store all this? It’s time to make a second scarf labeled “Extensions of the standard non-turbo Scorpio.”
And you say, “People don’t upgrade their computers just because they don’t have the software.” :((
Good luck ! Evgeny. ■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.
Hello, Evgeny!
Wed 23 Jun 1999 you wrote here:
EM> So, I was inspired to make myself a 512 by 192 screen. I printed out the
circuit,
We got it... ;)
EM> laid it out in front of me, laid out the scorpion circuit. And... Mom, bear me back!!! So my board is all covered in wires (ALK sometimes likes to mock
“The eyes are afraid, but the hands are busy.”
EM> And you say “People don’t upgrade their computers just because there is no
EM> software.” :((
Well... Yes, this is not in the PC, poking handkerchiefs into the slots.
All the improvements should have been made from the very beginning I started doing it very well. And now
disassemble the old and carefully make the new. But we need to modernize.
All the best.
Sincerely, Roman.
EM> because there is no
EM> software." :((
Wow! Right to the point! :( It is precisely because of the complete reluctance to observe the subject (I have a 1:1 situation with
the computer, like you) I’m also unlikely to install
512x192...
By the way, for the same reason I probably walked around the computer for half a year, I just couldn’t “decide” to upgrade to 512K
p.s. I would rename the subject to “MGTForodious...” :)
Sincerely, Felix.
[I ZX]
EM> So, I was inspired to make myself a 512 by 192 screen. I printed out the circuit diagram, laid it out in front of me, laid out the scorpion circuit diagram. And... Mom, bear me back!!! So my board is all covered in wires (ALK sometimes likes to make fun
EM> of my computer, testing out new circuits), and then there’s this circuit
EM> where I have to cut/solder the tracks all over the vast board... And I also
EM> wanted to set up a space for myself, and expand the memory... Where do I need all this
EM> store? It’s time to make a second scarf marked “Extensions
EM> of the standard non-turbocharged Scorpio.”
EM> And you say, “People don’t upgrade their computers just because there is no
EM> software.” :((
Well, no one forces you to glue some circuits to your computer that are not particularly needed, for example, CMOS, Digitizer, Sounddrive (I had it, but unhooked
it was unnecessary), and the like, I always try to make sure that I have what
I need for work, the only thing I don’t need yet
is mice and that’s it.
Vladimir AKA Envoy/PHT
Hello, Vladimir!
Mon 28 Jun 1999 you wrote here:
VB> Well, no one forces you to glue some circuits to your computer that are not
VB> particularly needed, for example, CMOS, Digitizer, Sounddrive (I had it, but
VB> unhooked
VB> as unnecessary), and the like, I always try that I wish I had
what
VB> that I need for work, the only thing I need for now
This is a really sober thought!
If you wanted to screw something in - take it and do it, and don’t yell that no one needs it.
Whether you need it or not, only you can decide for yourself. After you've heard how cool it is with this gadget. ;)
Only if you have already decided to modify it, carefully consider how to do it so that
after the next modification your favorite computer does not die.
EM> diagram, laid it out in front of him, laid out the scorpion diagram. And... Mom,
EM> give me back!!! So my board is all covered in wires (ALK sometimes
EM> likes to make fun of my computer, trying out new
EM> circuits),
Best. :). It’s time to make
EM> a second scarf marked “Extensions of the standard non-turbo
EM> Scorpio.”
That’s the only reason Alk didn’t make this circuit for himself... And so everything that is possible is
cut and soldered... :(
VB>> bye
RM> That's a really sober thought!
Ah-ah-ah, who s-s-said that I was sober ;)
RM> I wanted to screw something up - take it and do it, and don’t yell that no one
RM> needs it.
Well, in my opinion, I was shouting about the most necessary things, but that’s how me, I can’t live without
512 at all.
RM> Whether you need it or not, only you can decide. After you've heard
RM> how cool it is with this gadget. ;)
Egezh-bo ;)
So I decided that what I need needs to be done ;)
RM> Only if you’ve already decided to modify it, think carefully about how to do it so that
RM> after the next modification your favorite computer doesn’t die.
Yeah, I always have this, but the truth is that the only thing I’ve installed without
failures is the sounddrive.
I’m currently using the mouse I’ll attach it, and then we’ll see, maybe for fun I’ll make static RAM for 1
meter ;)
Vladimir AKA Envoy/PHT
I see a stone in my garden :). here the answer is simple - all the add-ons and bells and whistles need to be done wisely, that is, not to turn the computer into a fairy-tale monster. and
now we need to gather our courage and rip off everything that has been hung up, and do everything anew, taking into account the acquired experience.
mess: don’t hit too hard - this is how I think now, but in some past I managed
to transform my stump into the above-mentioned monster.
With best wishes, Artur. [ZX]
AI> I see a stone in my garden :). here the answer is simple - all the add-ons and
AI> bells and whistles need to be done wisely, that is, not to turn the computer into a fabulous
AI> beast-monster.
Hmmm... Let me tell you what I already have:
1) An adapter for an RGB card in a TV, originally designed for
connecting Synthesis.
2) Turbezh disk drive with two indicators ("Turbo On/Off" and "Turbo
Enable/Disable") and an on/off key.
3) "Adder" of clock cycles (I have Scorpio).
4) Normal decoding of AY through the FD port.
5) HMI matcher between the Hayes IRQ and Magic button.
6) Some other gadget that throws out the three least significant bits from the data bus.
Yes, all this together with the keyboard in one case. They once sold something like this - black and pot-bellied. The scorpion board is exactly included in it.
AI> and now we need to gather our courage and rip off everything that has been attached, and
AI> do it all over again, taking into account the acquired experience.
:))) Is this a new board, or what? After all, I did everything anyway on
a free editing field and tried to minimize the number and length of wires.
AI> PS: don’t hit too hard - that’s what I’m thinking now, but in some past I managed
AI> to transform my stump into the above-mentioned monster.
Wow :)
AI>> and bells and whistles need to be done wisely, that is, do not turn the computer into
AI>> a fabulous beast-monster.
EM> Hmmm... Let me tell you what I already have:
EM> 1) An adapter for the RGB card in the TV, originally designed for
EM> Synthesis connection.
EM> 2) A disk drive switch with two indicators ("Turbo On/Off" and "Turbo
EM> Enable/Disable") and an on/off key.
EM> 3) "Adder" of cycles (I have Scorpio).
EM> 4) Normal AY decryption via the FD port.
EM> 5) HMI matcher between the Hayes IRQ and the Magic button.
EM> 6) Some other gadget that throws out the three least significant bits
EM> from the data bus.
hmm... and now look what I have in this regard (meaning what is not
included in the standard design of the board, and as a result this is hung from above,
the second floor, for example):
1. turbo VG93, without indicators and switches...
2. VG93 power protection
3. turbo z80, with a switch
4. Kempston joystick, or rather its plug (sick of crooked programs :(
5. LPT Covox on 572PA1
6. AY
7. memory expansion up to 512K with three ports (#7ffd, #dffd, #fdfd)
8. XTR momed
EM> Yes, all this together with the keyboard in one case They sold
EM> once such - black and “pot-bellied”.It just includes the scorpa board in
EM> exactly.
and in mine in the AT case. At one time there were these from the IBM PS2 286, like
in short, recumbent and flat. The Pentagon board fits into such a case just in length. The power supply, though not a PC one, is 5V - 5A, 12V - 2A, and there is also -5V and -12V. this is if I include Hayes :). The keyboard is not a good computer BYTE, they were made in Brest. It burned out on me, and
cannot be repaired - the board is 8 layers :(. in general, all that is left of it is
the keyboard. But it rules - an expanded rubber film. It has been plowing for 8 years already.
EM> Hmmm... Let me list for you what I already have:
EM> 1) An adapter for an RGB card in a TV, originally designed for
EM> a Synthesis connection.
EM> 2) A disk drive switch with two indicators ("Turbo On/Off" and "Turbo
EM> Enable/Disable") and the on/off key.
EM> 3) "Adder" of clock cycles (I have Scorpio).
EM> 4) Normal decoding of AY through the FD port.
EM> 5) HMI matcher between the Hayes IRQ and the Magic button.
EM> 6) Some kind of There is also a gadget that throws out the three least significant bits
EM> from the data bus.
AI> maybe it’s worth putting all the improvements on a separate board, which
AI> is not difficult
AI> to develop and etch?
Or maybe it’s better to connect the new Speck board with a bus that satisfies the connection of various modifications. And insert all additional devices
into the slots.
AI> and now I regret it.... although no, I don’t regret it. if I had a chance to live through this again -
AI> would have done
AI> exactly the same...
Likewise (even now I continue to resolder :)
Sincerely, Dmitry.
AI>> is it easy to develop and etch?
DP> Or maybe it’s better to connect the new Speck board with a bus that satisfies
DP> for connecting various modifications. And insert all additional
DP> devices into slots.
maybe better... even _ultimately_ better, but who will do this? if
there are enthusiasts with the appropriate capabilities, then of course. why
enthusiasts? because it won't work commercially. will pay for itself, but you won't be able to get rich from it. unless we organize a “workshop”
working for the entire xUSSR....
2ALL: maybe we can think about this matter, huh?
│Artur Ishmurzin wrote to Evgeny Milun on Saturday July 10, 1999
└
[...]
AI> it burned out on me, and it can’t be repaired - the board is 8 layers :(. in general that's all,
^^^
Actually, 3 layers... Yes, people seem to be repairing them...
AI> what's left of it is the keyboard, but it's an extended one.
AI> has been plowing for 8 years now.
See ya later, KVA of E-mage... [ZX] [Scorpion]
{ 2:451/19 / 500:152/1 / k...@softhome.net }
This was done on the branded ZX-48.
On the pro, Scorpio, zxnext, kay, this was also implemented.
Kirill Frolov. [ZX]
AI>> everything in general,
VK> ^^^
VK> Actually, 3 layers... Yes, people seem to be repairing them...
no, exactly 8. if you hold it up to the light, then under the TV signal modulator you can see
that there is a number on each layer. and since there are only 8 numbers, then, accordingly,
layers should also be no less :).
Hello, Artur!
14 Jul 1999 did you write here:
AI> enthusiasts? because it won't work commercially. will pay for itself, but
AI> you won’t be able to get rich from it. unless you organize a “workshop”
AI> working for the entire xUSSR....
IMHO it will easily pay off. And it will bring profit. If only a bare board (of good quality) with detailed documentation will be sold. And not on alters
divorced, but on “loose powder”.
And traders who sell software by mail can also sell these boards.
Right now, many are looking for bare Pentagon boards, but they are not there. And then there are still a lot of improvements that need to be done on
it... :( But for many this turns out to be cheaper and more interesting than
buying a ready-made KAYa or Sprinter board.
AI> no, exactly 8. If you hold it up to the light, then under the TV signal modulator
AI> you can see that there is a number on each layer. and since there are only 8 numbers, then
AI> accordingly, there should also be no less layers :).
Do you even imagine the thickness of the 1st layer? On average, the entire board
is no more than 1 mm thick... Now divide by 8 :)
And what do we have? The coolest nanotechnology... :)
PS: I delaminated the board myself and I know that it only has three layers!!! Three! and no more! And the numbers are the serial number. Let's stop with this flame!
AI> Best wishes, Artur. [ZX]
C ya in nE>
KF> This was done on the branded ZX-48.
KF> On the pro, Scorpio, zxnext, kay, this was also implemented.
You don’t understand what we’re talking about. Try plugging the same
dmasound into the kay/scorpion tire. We need a new bus - with more addressing, possibly with a larger
data bus - the main thing is not to overdo it.
Sincerely, Dmitry.
AI> 2ALL: maybe we can think about this matter, huh?
I have a few ideas: first of all, organize several
PDP channels (for now, 8 would be nice), an open architecture is also needed - and this is
nothing more than a bare bus. Those. The motherboard consists of only a few connectors and a frequency generator. And nothing more. A processor is inserted into one of the slots, a video card into another, memory for the nth number of meters into the third, etc. Well, let's discuss?
In general, how does ALL see our Spectrum in the future?
Sincerely, Dmitry.
C ya in nE>
DP> You don't understand what we're talking about. Try plugging the same
DP> dmasound into the kay/scorpion bus. We need a new bus - with greater addressing,
On the slot, as in the computer itself, there is a 16-bit address bus...
DP> possibly with a larger data bus
...and an 8-bit data bus.
DP> - the main thing is not to overdo it.
Where and how? So what are you suggesting - more, more, no wonder, what
is even more than what is in the computer itself, the main thing is more?
DP> I have several ideas: first of all, organize several
DP> DDP channels (8 would be nice for now), an open architecture
DP> is also needed - and this is nothing more than a bare bus. Those. The motherboard consists of
DP> only a few connectors and a frequency generator. And nothing more. A processor is inserted into one of the
DP> slots, a video card into another, memory for the nth number of meters into the third
DP>, etc. Well, let's discuss?
DP> In general, how does our Spectrum see ALL in the future?
DDP channels, memory in connectors - you bent that. I have a somewhat simpler
idea.
Personally, my vision of a modern Spectrum-compatible computer is as follows:
the board is based on the Pentagon-128 board, but with significant modifications and
improvements that are required today. this is:
a) placement of AY directly on the board
b) use instead of RU5/RU7, SIM modules, 30 or 72-pin.
c) integrate turbo mode into the board, memory expansion up to 8192K.
d) make the FDD controller a separate board under the system connector, and
initially clock at a frequency of 2 MHz.
e) 4-5 Scorpio/Kai system connectors, so as not to lose the amount of
peripherals that have been developed for these machines.
e) throw out the keyboard buffer from the board as unnecessary, since it is possible/necessary to make a separate board fora standard connector, or, if desired,
use a PC keyboard controller.
g) introduce the 512x192 video mode as standard, and, accordingly, add it
to the board.
note: of course, the z80 buses must be buffered.
so, what will we have? a motherboard on which the z80, RAM/ROM, video controller (256x192 & 512x192), AY, GTI, and dynamically connecting boards will be located - 1) which need to be developed: beta disk
interface, keyboard buffer 2) and which already exist: XTR modem, GS, controller PC-keyboard&mouse, hard drive interface.
I just don’t know what to do with the clock and cache - either add them to the motherboard, or integrate them into some kind of card. :)
begin
Writeln('Hello Artur'); {
22 July 99 21:13, Artur Ishmurzin --> All:
AI> the board is based on the Pentagon-128 board, but with significant modifications
AI> and improvements that are required today. this is:
AI> a) placing AY directly on the board
AI> b) using instead of RU5/RU7, SIM modules, 30 or 72-pin.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But in my opinion this is in vain. They are already hard to find =(
} Writeln ('Bye. Serge');
end.
SN> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SN> But in my opinion this is in vain. They are already hard to find =(
Ru5 (7) is much more affordable :) You are talking nonsense. These sims can cover
the needs of spektrumists hundreds of times, even if we take into account that they are not released, but count only those that were brought here...
And the prices for them are falling. 5026 meter simm without straining 1$.
Sincerely,
Renat
You won't find 30 anymore. All that remains is 72 or DIMM
AI> c) integrate a turbo mode into the board, expand the memory up to 8192K.
It is better to remove the memory limit altogether. Take it somewhere to the
4Gb area, and then use what you put on the board.
AI> d) make the FDD controller a separate board for the system connector, and
AI> initially clock it at 2 MHz.
It’s not clear why. The drive controller is VG93 plus several microcircuits. And the port decoder is common to the entire circuit.
It’s better to install it directly on the board. Same as the screw controller. It is no larger in size than the required area for the connector into which the controller is plugged. If
is not needed, simply do not solder in the microcircuits.
AI> e) 4-5 system connectors
AI> scorpion/kai, so as not to lose the amount of peripherals that were
AI> developed for these machines.
Possibly.
And make separate signals /IORQ, /MREQ, with a controlled switch, that
device conflicts would be killed forever.
AI> e) throw out the keyboard buffer from the board as unnecessary, since
AI> you can/need to make a separate board for
AI> a standard connector, or, if desired, use a controller
AI> PC keyboard.
Keyboard buffer, these are 2 microcircuits. Why throw it away? You can safely stick them
at least between the connector into which the controller board will be pluggedkeyboards and
do not bother with an additional board if there is no controller.
AI> g) introduce 512x192 video mode as a standard, and
AI> add it to the board accordingly.
You can add something cooler. For example, expanding the screen on the border.
(640x256 mode). Done on 1..2 chips.
AI> note: of course, the z80 buses need to be buffered.
Required.
AI> so, what will we have? a motherboard on which
AI> will be located z80, RAM/ROM, video controller (256x192 & 512x192), AY,
AI> GTI, and dynamically connecting boards - 1) which need
AI> to be developed: beta disk interface, keyboard buffer 2) and which already
AI> have: XTR modem, GS, PC-keyboard&mouse controller,
AI> hard drive interface.
If you accept what I proposed, then the first point is actually eliminated.
AI> I just don’t know what to do with the clock and cache - either add them to the
AI> motherboard, or integrate them into some card thread. :)
Bet on the board. Definitely. The cache will not require any space at all if you use the cache from the old PCs. Narrow 62256. They have a much higher speed and
they are placed directly under the ROM and their layout is almost parallel to the ROM.
The clock is also better to be wired on the board. Just one chip.
Although with all my words there are already almost a dozen of them.:))
P.S. In general, if you add a little, you get Super-Peters, shown at E'96
:)))
Wow! The Protoss are attacking my Zerlings! It's time to get going. Ivan...
DP>>>> connection of various modifications. And all additional devices
DP>>>> should be inserted into the slots.
KF>>> This was done on the branded ZX-48.
KF>>> On the pros, Scorpio, zxnext, kay, this was also implemented.
DP>> You don’t understand what I’m talking about. Try plugging the same
DP>> dmasound into the kay/scorpion bus. We need a new bus - with more addressing,
AI> so what will we have? a motherboard on which the z80, RAM/ROM, video controller (256x192 & 512x192), AY, GTI, and dynamically connecting boards will be located - 1) which need to be developed: beta disk
AI> interface, keyboard buffer 2) and which already exist: XTR modem, GS,
AI> PC-keyboard&mouse controller, hard drive interface.
AI> I just don’t know what to do with the clock and cache - either add them to the
AI> motherboard, or integrate them into some kind of card. :)
Of course, the clock and cache should be made on a separate board.
(3rd slot)
P.S. This is all an empty market. No one will make this “modern Spectrum”.
:(
Spec will remain multi-story with a bunch of wires.
AI>>> 72-pin.
SN>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ But in my opinion this is in vain. They are already now
SN>> hard to find =(
RM> Ru5 (7) is much more affordable :) You are talking nonsense. These sims can
RM> cover the needs of spektrumists hundreds of times, even if we take into account
RM> that they are not released, and only those that were brought here are counted... And prices
RM> for them are falling. 5026 meter simm without straining 1$.
I give up =)
Once, Sun Jul 18 1999 21:54, Dmitry Pavlukhin wrote to Kirill Frolov about
[A heartbreaking spectacle.]:
DP> the same dmasound. We need a new bus - with more addressing,
how's that?
and why does GS do without "more addressing"?
DP> perhaps with
DP> a larger data bus - the main thing is not to overdo it.
wow, and at the same time draw in the missing data lines to the processor? :-)
All the best.
Dmitry.
... LD..X-TRADE... [ZX]
All the best.
Dmitry.
... LD..X-TRADE... [ZX]
Once, Sun Jul 18 1999 21:02, Oleg Golenkoff wrote to Artur Ishmurzin about
[Bite-tearing spectacle.]:
OG> PS: I delaminated the board myself and I know that there are only three layers in it!!! Three! and
OG> no more! And the numbers are the serial number. Let's stop with this flame!
that's right, let's stop. but keep in mind that there is always an _even_ number of layers ;)
usually 4 or 8.
All the best.
Dmitry.
... LD..X-TRADE... [ZX]
Once, Sun Jul 25 1999 11:22, Roman Milukov wrote to Artur Ishmurzin about
[Spectrum of tomorrow....]:
AI>> d) 4-5 system connectors Scorpio/Kai, so as not to lose the
AI>> amount of peripherals that was developed for these machines.
RM> ?!! What quantity?
RM> XTR. And GS, which not everyone can afford, and that’s all!
Zonov’s pc keyboard, it will work everywhere, IMHO.
mouse controller from old models.
RM> The rest
RM> is purely tailored for Scorpio! In my opinion, you just need to make one
RM> system connector.
this is the biggest mistake on the Spectrum.
that’s why there is such a mess with peripherals and a lot of standards.
why wasn’t connecting devices with wires practiced on the PC? ;)
initially there was a bus and a lot of holes where you could stuff everything.
RM> And to it you can already connect a board with
RM> additional slots for those who wish. The majority of people don't need it.
the compromise option is a bus (and not a system connector), there are holes in the board
but no connectors. only this way or better.
And tomorrow you will cut it again to make yourself, in addition to 512 x 192
2 colors per byte, and 2 interlace screens, etc. etc.:) Join me :). If you do as I suggest, you can even plug in a z380
instead of a z80 and everything will work.
Sincerely, Dmitry.
Hello, Ivan!
23 Jul 1999 you wrote here:
[...]
IM> P.S. In general, if you add a little, you get Super-Peters, shown at
IM> E'96 :)))
Tell me about Super-Peters?..
Or is he also on PLM?
Once, Saturday July 17, 1999 14:11, Roman Milukov wrote to Artur Ishmurzin:
AI>> enthusiasts? because it won't work commercially. of course
AI>> will pay for itself, but you won’t be able to get rich from it. unless
AI>> organize a “workshop” working for the entire xUSSR....
RM> IMHO it will easily pay off. And it will bring profit. If only for sale
RM> there will be a bare board (of good quality) with detailed documentation. And not
RM> divorced on alters, but “loosely”. And traders who trade
RM> software by mail can sell these boards too. Right now, many are looking for naked
RM> Pentagon boards, but they are not there. And then there are still a lot of modifications to be made on it
RM>... :( But for many this turns out to be cheaper and more interesting
RM> than buying a ready-made KAYa or Sprinter board.
well, what's the matter? Everyone needs to move, identify their capabilities in this
business. Roughly calculate the cost price and move forward. Where the cost price
of the board will be lower, there you can start production. And distribution, indeed, can be
different ways, one of which is centrally through traders.
SN> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SN> But in my opinion this is in vain. It’s already difficult to find them now =(
well, of course, it’s easier to find ru`shki. And here you can’t find 30-pin sims before in the daytime, but as soon as the Sinclairists started hunting them down with their computers,
they immediately appeared in droves. The cost of 1M simm30 is from 1 to 1.5 cu. and simm72
so in general the sea... so in vain said nonsense :))
AI>> and initially clock at a frequency of 2 MHz.
IM> This is not clear why.
for those who will use a PC controller instead of a standard controller. Why does he need unnecessary weight on the board, which will waste valuable electricity :).
IM> The drive controller is VG93 plus several microcircuits. And the decoder
IM> ports is common for the entire circuit. It’s better to install it directly on the board. Just
IM> as a screw controller. It is no larger in size than the required area
IM> for the connector into which the controller is plugged. If it’s not needed, just don’t
IM> solder in the microcircuits.
the slot/connector system is necessary so that in the future
improvement of the hardware components of our beloved computer, we don’t have to turn it again
into an N-story amorphous monster. On the motherboard, leave only
the most basic things that are not expected to change much in the future. in light of these
thoughts, it is necessary to remove the video controller from the board.
AI>> you can/should make a separate card for a standard connector
AI>> or, if desired, use a PC keyboard controller.
RM> I don’t know about that.
RM> It would be nice, of course, a PC keyboard controller, but it’s expensive (+ the keyboard itself).
as I heard/read in the price lists a PC keyboard controller Nemo/Zonov costs ~10 cu. IMHO, not that expensive. its cost should be about 6-8 cu. especially
if you consider that the PC mouse is also installed there.
RM> Therefore, it is better to leave everything as it is in the Pentagon, and if you need a PC keyboard
RM>, connect its controller to the external bus. Oh, and a K-mouse controller.
RM> Okay, you can make one more slot for the “keyboard+mouse” device.
it’s even necessary. I still haven’t repaired my Mouse with Campstom only because
my tire is loaded to the limit and I don’t want to put it on the second floor on the computer. At one time there was a desire (and money) to buy that same PC keyboard/mouse controller. but
apparently it’s not destiny:(
AI>> to introduce the 512x192 video mode as a standard, and, accordingly
AI>> add it to the board.
additional note. The video controller needs to be removed from the motherboard, because... Many people are not satisfied with its capabilities, and, undoubtedly, there will be further
attempts to improve this spec unit.
RM> :(
RM> Speck will remain multi-story with a bunch of wires.
The problem is not to make this new Speck - the problem is in supporting users. I can, say, assemble it for myself at home, it will work great, I will like it and give pleasure with its work, but
you won’t see it. And I alone need it - I can’t afford it for myself I’ll write
a bunch of programs. And as such, in my opinion, no one needs PENTAGON II - no one
will buy it to get rid of “snot”, and besides, it will
not have the ability to expand and is doomed to be overgrown with wires again :(.
Sincerely, Dmitry.
DL> that's right, tie it off. but keep in mind that there is always an _even_ number of layers ;)
DL> usually 4 or 8.
OK! I won’t argue how it’s correct, I’ll just say that having just opened the Byte
board, I discovered the next upgrade:
~~~~~~~~~~ - tracks (1st layer?)
========== - textolite
~~~~~~~~~~ - tracks (2nd layer)
========== - textolite
~~~~~~~~~~ - tracks (3rd layer)
In principle, this can be seen even with the naked eye in the light... ;)
DL> All the best.
DL> Dmitry.
DL> this is the biggest mistake on the Spectrum.
DL> that’s why there is such an ass with peripherals and a lot of standards.
DL> why wasn’t connecting devices with wires practiced on the PC? ;)
DL> initially there was a tire and a lot of holes where you could stuff everything.
What specific tire are you talking about? VLB? PCI? ISA? EISA? There were a lot of buses on the PC
...
RM>> And you can already connect a board to it
DL> this is the biggest mistake on the Spectrum.
DL> that’s why there is such an ass with peripherals and a lot of standards.
DL> why wasn’t connecting devices with wires practiced on the PC? ;)
DL> initially there was a tire and a lot of holes where you could stuff everything.
DL> the same as it is.
DL> it’s too late to change anything.
DL> and what exists is enough for creativity.
Well, one person has already answered, why are the rest silent? Express
your opinion.
Sincerely, Dmitry.
Not everyone.
WBR, Sergey. [ZX]
FIDOnet - 2:451/19.2
e-mail - gri...@mail.ru
... Blessed are the callers, for they will connect
DP>> same dmasound. We need a new bus - with more addressing,
DL> what is it like?
DL> and why does GS do without “more addressing”?
Because it has its own memory on board, and DMASOUND uses the memory
of the computer. In general, the docks were recently thrown into ZX.SPECTRUM
along with the circuit - read it and you will know a lot about this card :).
DL> this is the biggest mistake on the Spectrum.
DL> that’s why there is such an ass with peripherals and a lot of standards.
DL> why wasn’t connecting devices with wires practiced on the PC? ;)
DL> initially there was a tire and a lot of holes where you could stuff everything.
AI>> 512x192), AY, GTI, and dynamically connecting boards - 1)
AI>> which need to be developed: beta disk interface, buffer
AI>> keyboard 2) and which already exist: XTR-modem, GS, controller
AI>> PC-keyboard&mouse, hard drive interface.
DP> And tomorrow you will be there again cut it to make yourself, in addition to 512 x
DP> 192, also 2 colors per byte, and 2 interlace screens, etc. etc.:)
has already been corrected :) - the video controller must be removed from the motherboard.
DP> Join me :). If you do as I suggest, you can even
DP> plug in a z380 instead of a z80 and everything will work.
IMHO, the z380 has a slightly different architecture than the z80. so it will not be possible
to make them interchangeable. at best, you can add a z380 so that it works like the faster z80 and nothing else. all its features and
advantages will turn into smoke and dust :(.
yeah. three-story monsters, entangled in the web of mgtf'a. and every time, after
the next attack of creativity, you have to climb this web and
sentence “.. and why doesn’t it work, blah”
AI> well, of course, rubles are easier to find. and we couldn’t find 30-pin sims before
AI> in the daytime with
AI> fire, but as soon as the Sinclairists began to dog them with their
AI> computers,
AI> they immediately appeared in droves. cost of 1M simm30 - from 1 to 1.5 USD and
AI> simm72
AI> so in general the sea... so in vain I said stupidity. :).
AI> slot/connector system is necessary so that in the future
AI> when
AI> improving the hardware components of our beloved computer, we do not have to
AI> again
AI> turn it into an N-story amorphous monster. leave
AI> on the motherboard only
AI> the most basic thing that is not expected to change much in the future. in light of
AI> these
AI> thoughts, it is necessary to remove the video controller from the board.
And in the end, what will remain on the board, as I suggested not so long ago, is a generator
and those same connectors for the expansion slot.
Best regards, Dmitry.
RM> Would you tell us about Super-Peters?..
RM> Or is it also on PLM?
It was a Peters-256 board with a large hairstyle of wires called
“I’m at my mom’s place instead of a mop”
There’s almost nothing to tell about it now.
It had an extended screen, 80x32 character mode, graphics 16 colors per point,
big, big slowdowns due to the processor operating only at 7MHz.
There were promises to overclock the processor to 10.5 or 14. And there were assurances from competitors
that this was impossible. :))
And a sea of glitches due to the fact that there is almost no reliability on all these wires.
Wow! The Protoss are attacking my Zerlings! It's time to get going. Ivan... data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=ru&q=http://www.atlant.ru/peters&source=gmail&ust=1785433319470000&usg=AOvVaw1cIbZTEBLZxbLqGy62g47U">www.atlant.ru/peters *
AI> while improving the hardware components of our beloved computer, there was no need
AI> to once again turn it into an N-story amorphous monster. on the motherboard
AI> leave only the most basic things that are not expected to be changed much
AI> in the future. in light of these thoughts, it is necessary to remove the
AI> video controller from the board.
I am not against slots. I am in favor of installing everything on the board that does not require much effort for this installation. And the reliability in this case will be higher.
AI> this is possible. but, IMHO, it’s still better in my opinion, since a)
AI> it won’t be difficult to make such a board, b) it will reduce the number of
AI> cases on the motherboard c) it won’t hang as an extra burden on the
AI> PC controller.
IMHO, saving cases is not entirely correct. I agree that it is necessary to do
in less quantity, but on simple circuits needed by a computer, it is better not to
save.
I was convinced of this myself. Without installing, for example, a panel for AY in Sprinter.
On 07.29.99 you wrote:
DP>> Join me :). If you do as I suggest, you can even
DP>> instead of the z80 you can plug in a z380 and everything will work.
AI> IMHO, the z380 has a slightly different architecture than the z80. so don't
AI> make them interchangeable. at best, you can add a z380 so that
AI> it works like a faster z80 and nothing else. all its features and
AI> advantages will turn into smoke and dust :(.
I have a complete document for the Z380 from the Zilog website. The Z380 can work in
two main modes - like the Z80 and like the Z380. Since I didn’t read the document thoroughly at all, I’m not sure if this is the case in the Z80 mode, but
in the Z380 the R register can be used as a general-purpose register -
it is not used for regeneration and does not change.
Bye, Artur! Megus/Brainwave^X-Project [ZX] [NeOS]
DP> Well, one person has already answered - why are the rest silent?
DP> Express your opinion.
I agree with Dmitry, a spec is a spec, it’s too late to make a super-duper car,
the bells and whistles of the stellar times of the spec (pro, scorp, atm, zx-nescht) haven’t really caught on,
and now even more so.
Sincerely, Yura DOORSFAN
[ZX] [DOORS] [BLACK SABBATH]
30 Jul 99 07:14, Roman Petrov -> Artur Ishmurzin:
RP> I have a complete document for Z380 from the Zilog website. Z380 can
RP> work in two main modes - like Z80 and like Z380. Since
RP> in the doc I haven’t thoroughly read it at all, I’m not sure whether it’s
RP> in Z80 mode, but
RP> in the Z380 the R register can be used as a general
RP> register - it is not used for regeneration and not
RP> is changing.
I have a ZiLOG representative office near my house. Documents for all processors are sold there. For 380, I gave someone else's book to GPV to read.
Maybe it will work completely in Z80 mode, like all the other processors of this
company.
Sincerely, Alexey
DL>> is there, but there are no connectors. only this way or better.
EM> The compromise option is to choose one specific connector and make
EM> its standard.
the only correct option, IMHO, is to place system connectors
(slots) on the board, albeit in excess quantities, albeit with a larger number of signals,
sometimes unnecessary. the main thing is that then you won’t need to pick THIS up again in order to
finish something and bring it to mind in order to connect some kind of thread
super super gadget.
RM>> will not do. :( Speck will remain multi-storey with a bunch of
RM>> wires.
DP> The problem is not to make this new Speck - the problem is supporting
DP> users.
its low cost and the possibility of widespread distribution not in the form of a
ready-made computer, but in the form of a bare board with detailed documentation - these are
the components of the success of the new model.
DP> I can, for example, assemble it at home, it
DP> will work great, I will like it and give pleasure
DP> with its work, but you won’t see it. And I alone need it - I
DP> won’t write a bunch of programs for it myself. And as such, in my opinion, no one needs PENTAGON II
DP> - no one will buy it for the sake of getting rid of
DP> “from snot”, and besides, it will not have the capabilities to do so. expansion
DP> and is doomed to be overgrown with wires again :(.
the presence of a connector/slot system is the “opportunity for expansion”
RM>> Spec will remain multi-story with a bunch of wires.
DP> The problem of not making this new Spec is the problem in supporting users.
DP>. I can, say, assemble it for myself at home, it will work great, I will like it and give pleasure with its work, but you won’t see it. And why do I need it alone - I won’t write a bunch of programs for it
DP> myself. And as such, in my opinion, no one needs PENTAGON II - no one
DP> will buy it for the sake of getting rid of “snot”, and besides, it will not
DP> have the ability to expand and is doomed to be overgrown with wires again :(.
Well, you have somewhat chaotically lumped everything into one pile...
The problem is precisely to _make_ this new Spec!
That is, to separate a good option boards. Having previously discussed the configuration and all the nuances of the circuit in the echo and other possible ways with spektrumist-realists throughout the ex-USSR (and not in one city!), find out what exactly the people need.
Produce a certain number of them and start selling them together with
schemes And for those who want them and with all the information for the production of these boards. (and
author's
copies and distributions :)
For this you need a very interested and persistent person + a certain amount
of money.
And about support from users - this is exactly what the modern Pentagon-2 ALREADY has.There will be mostly bare boards.
You can, of course, organize their assembly. But the assembled, working board of Pentagon-2
will cost more than KAI, so they will buy KAI ready-made. Not,
unless, of course, they then develop an implementation of this Pentagon-2 on PLM - they will buy it. ;)
Naturally, it will acquire new snot modifications. But imho this is the evolutionary path of development of Spec! Revolutionary - Sprinter. ;)
RM>> Isn’t 8M enough?!! And 1M is quite enough IMHO. Next you need to use the screw.
AI> shot as much as possible for the future. IMHO, 8M will be above the roof for a long time,
if
AI> is not forever.
That’s true, but for RAM more than 1M the number of cases increases. (And even more so over 8M!)
1M completely fits on #7FFD - quick access and decent volume, logical
development of 128K.
RM>> In my opinion, you just need to make one
RM>> system connector. And you can already connect a board to it with
RM>> additional slots for those who wish. The majority of people don’t need it.
AI> may not be needed yet. but who knows what will happen next. after all, speck is not
AI> PC,
AI> and the board for speck is made not for 1-2 years, but for at least 7-8 years, or even
AI> more.
On the Spectrum you can’t completely get rid of the “snot” - creativity, after all!
And each additional slot means additional dimensions + additional cost.
You have to approach it wisely, without being stupid maximalism.
DL>> a compromise option - a bus (and not a system connector), there are holes in the board,
DL>> but there are no connectors. only this way or better.
EM> The compromise option is to choose one specific connector and make it
EM> a standard.
Personally, I had in mind - to output to the connector standard signals of the bus type
kai/scorpion (existing de facto), its augmented version of some kind.
You can take any connector. SNP-96, for example.
RM>>> And to it you can already connect a board with
RM>>> additional slots for those who wish. The majority of people don't need it.
DL>> the compromise option is a bus (and not a system connector), there are holes in the board,
DL>> but there are no connectors. only this way or better.
EM> A compromise option is to choose one specific connector and make it
EM> a standard.
DL>> quantity ;) usually 4 or 8.
OG> OK! I won’t argue how it’s correct, I’ll just say that I just unpicked it
OG> I discovered the next upgrade of the byte board:
OG> ~~~~~~~~~~ - tracks (1st layer?)
OG> ========== - textolite
OG> ~~~~~~~~~~ - tracks (2nd layer)
OG> ========== - textolite
OG> ~~~~~~~~~~ - tracks (3rd layer)
interesting. this is Russian know-how, probably :-)
All the best.
Dmitry.
... LD..X-TRADE... [ZX]
DL>> is there, but there are no connectors. only this way or better.
DP> Literally a couple of messages ago (in my database) you wrote that
DP> there is no need to develop Speck, and you yourself are dissatisfied with the current
DP> state of affairs. How to understand? Still need progress? :).
if someone is going to do something, let them do it right.
IMHO, they won’t do anything anyway :)
DP> Because it has its own memory on board, and DMASOUND uses
DP> computer memory. In general, the docks here recently threw
DP> into ZX.SPECTRUM along with the scheme - read it and you will know a lot about this card :).
oh, there is such a fierce scheme, I didn’t even bother to figure it out ;)
AI> how is it - there are holes, but no connectors? what nonsense? or connectors at
AI> the price of gold on the market?
As I understand it, there is a theme of reducing the cost, like, the bus is not needed at all.
if you need it cheaper, don’t install connectors, but do it so that in the future, with
expansion, all this does not look like a coil with a kilometer of MGTF ;)
AI> IMHO, the z380 has a slightly different architecture than the z80. so it won't be possible
AI> to make them interchangeable. at best, you can add a z380
AI> so that
AI> it works like a faster z80 and nothing else. all its features and
AI> advantages will turn into smoke and dust :(.
Everything is correct z380 is a 32-bit processor, and outside there is a 16-bit bus. Therefore, when designing a new bus, it is necessary to provide for the possibility of installing
a similar processor. Then all its capabilities will not turn into dust.
Best regards, Dmitry.
DP>> I can, say, assemble it at home, it will
DP>> work great, I will like it and give pleasure
DP>> with its work, but you won’t see it. And I alone need it - I
DP>> I won’t write a bunch of programs for myself for it. And as such, in my opinion, no one needs PENTAGON II
DP>> - no one will buy it to get rid of
DP>> “from snot”, and besides, it will not have the ability to expand
AI> is about to happen. Moreover, why immediately discard what already exists and works. this
AI> is just _stupid_!
I didn’t dismiss it! Let everyone set for themselves what they want!
But why should a person pay money for something that he may never
need (extra slots). And the dimensions of the board are not unimportant!
For example, the keyboard & mouse controller: if you make an upgrade, then take out the old
board and insert a new one. The flop & screw controller too, (this is if you don’t
accept Ivan Mak’s proposal about wiring these things in the motherboard).
In short, we must _reasonably_ strive to reduce the cost, size, and number
of boards of the minimum configuration (the configuration will not be weak anyway).
And one more thing. It’s probably still advisable to separate the board so that it can fully work on its own, so that it has everything it needs. Fiddling with _sets_ of boards
is more difficult for manufacturers and traders.
DP> So it seems there is already a generally accepted standard - Kay/Scorpion. The only
DP> it needs to be expanded a little (by increasing contacts) for the further
DP> development of Speck.
Hmmm... What do you want to add there? IMHO, everything you need is already there.
Good luck! Evgeny. ■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.
[...sk...]
DL> interesting. this is Russian know-how, probably :-)
Don't tell me :) This was developed at the plant by engineers :) BPO SVT in Brest :)
DL> All the best.
DL> Dmitry.
C ya in nE>
DP>>>> same dmasound. We need a new bus - with more addressing,
DL>>> how is that?
DL>>> and why does GS do without “more addressing”?
DP>> Because it has its own memory on board, and DMASOUND uses
DP>> computer memory. In general, the docks here recently threw
DP>> into ZX.SPECTRUM along with the circuit - read it and you will know a lot about this card :).
DL> if someone is going to do something, let them do it right.
DL> IMHO, they won’t do anything anyway :)
“He who walks can master the road” (c) Bible.
Sincerely, Dmitry.
AI>> further improving the hardware components of our beloved
AI>> computer, we did not have to turn it again into an N-story amorphous
AI>> monster. leave only the most basic things on the motherboard,
AI>> which are not expected to change much in the future. In light of these
AI>> thoughts, the video controller needs to be removed from the board.
IM> I'm not against slots. I am in favor of installing everything on the board that does not
IM> require a lot of effort for this installation. And reliability in this case
IM> will be higher.
this is a double-edged sword. or higher reliability, or the possibility of a “bloodless”
upgrade.
One day, Friday July 30, 1999 07:14, Roman Petrov wrote to Artur Ishmurzin:
RP> I have a complete document for Z380 from the Zilog website. The Z380 can operate in
RP> two main modes - like the Z80 and like the Z380. Because In the doc
RP> I didn’t read thoroughly at all, so I’m not sure if this is the case in Z80 mode, but
RP> in the Z380 the R register can be used as a general-purpose register -
RP> it is not used for regeneration and does not change.
an interesting feature. in this case, compatibility with software for z80 is lost
Once, Thursday July 29, 1999 17:06, Dmitry Pavlukhin wrote to Artur Ishmurzin:
DP> But here 30-pin simms are quite expensive - there are 386 in total, people buy memory for
DP> them, it has become in short supply, so the prices for it are going down :(.
but when the general upgrade of the PCs begins, there will be a lot of these SIM cards
and cheap. So wait. :)
AI>> in light of these thoughts, it is necessary to remove the video controller from the board.
DP> And in the end, what will remain on the board, as I suggested not so long ago, is the
DP> generator and those same connectors for the expansion slot.
the idea is undoubtedly interesting. but maximalism is of no use here. It will be too difficult
to make a board designed to work with two different processors. they also abandoned this on the offtopic (at one time there were such boards with two panels for processors - for regular and OverDrive)
RM> if not forever.
RM> That’s true, but for RAM more than 1M the number of cases increases. (And
naturally, with each modification the number of cases increases, unless, of course,
the gadget does not replace some thread of the computer node and is not made on PLM (gmh, for example).
RM> especially over 8M!) 1M completely fits on #7FFD - quick access
RM> and a decent volume, a logical development of 128K.
IMHO, 1M will not last long undeveloped. we've already reached the point - the tsvild compo
requires 1M memory :(
RM>>> In my opinion, you just need to make one system connector. And to it
RM>>> you can already connect a board with additional slots for those who wish.
RM>>> The majority of people don’t need it.
and again there will be different standards for connecting peripherals. I won’t say,
but, I think that Scorpio/Kai owners were given a lot of satisfaction by the
slot architecture of their models, when you don’t need to connect
gs/xtr/pc-keybord/and-what-else-there-are-wires, but just insert them into the slot.
RP> I have a complete document for the Z380 from the Zilog website. The Z380 can operate in
RP> two main modes - like the Z80 and like the Z380. Because in the doc I didn't really read the RP thoroughly, I'm not sure if this is the case in Z80 mode, but
RP> in the Z380 the R register can be used as a general-purpose register -
RP> it is not used for regeneration and does not change.
RM>> you can’t attach it to a tire. This means that something needs to be done specially.
RM>> Again, extra size and cost.
AI> this is inevitable. Why aren’t they radically tampering with it now? (umh not in
AI> account) yes, because the video controller is tightly connected with the rest of the
AI> nodes of the computer, and its radical modification automatically leads to plowing up the
AI> board.
Rather than putting it in a slot, it is better to make its structure flexible.
This can be done in bulk, it can also be done in a plm.
or you can go paint chicken coops... When to sell will you?
I remember Mr. Maznitsa was here with Polyhedron, and in the Spectrum -
Savichev with Phoenix-Tornado. And now they are trying to make the blaster work as a modem... the 'Skillful Hands' circle :)
Sincerely,
Renat
IM>> modifications. The 3rd was shown at E'97, the 5th at FT'98
AI> and how cool is it? judging by the publications in magazines/newspapers
AI> an unfavorable opinion is created about him.
Well, he has some shortcomings. Like, “whistles wrong” and “flies low”.
Surely, they are described in those same magazines, maybe exaggerated.
And it has enough coolness.
4Mb, Z84C15 - 21Mhz, drive controllers, screw, mouse, PC-AT keyboard directly
on board CMOS clock, ISA slots (Hayes modem is inserted)
Maximum video modes:
320x256 pixels 256 colors per pixel from a palette of 16 million colors
640x256 pixels 16 colors per pixel from a palette of 16 million colors
80x32 text mode, with the choice of character generators for each character
is essentially a text mode, which does not have 256 characters, but up to
8192 characters, with color attributes for each character according to any
standard, both Spectrum and CGA
And all this is just a field on which the first ones are already growing software flowers and berries in
the form of demo programs, videos scrolled directly from the screw,
3D demos with running through a labyrinth like 3D-wolf, and music played from the screw
against the background of this running...
By the way, it has 17-25 frames per second on full screen 320x256 x 256 colors
Connected CD-ROM, large screws(maximum connected 4Gb and this is not the limit, they just didn’t try to connect more)
And the negative attitude of the press is like hitting the legs of a child
learning to walk with sticks.
The Sprinter is not a PC or an Amiga. This is Spectrum. That is its very development.
Let's say, taken to the limit, when _everything is squeezed out of the Z80_
So I say: _Install everything you can install_
because the _disadvantages_ of the Sprinter are the very thing that is not included on the board
No Campston Mouse, (its own mouse)
No panel for AY (it is sewn into the PLM)
Compatibility, damn it, is not 100%, but only 99.9%
Although, in fact, it is all 120%, because the Pentagon’s programs can be
launched and Scorpio’s
What other disadvantages are there? The Kempston joystick and port #1F conflict with the internal
processor port. Bypassed only for the In(#1F) and Out(#1F) commands
And in its own TR-DOS, port #0F is used instead of #1F
Yes. The main drawback is that Sprinter is not up to par with the cheap 486 and Pentium PCs. (nonsense...)
Well, as for the price, excuse me. A new board based on imported components, the kind that no one produces in Russia and will not produce in the next 5 years, unless ALTERA builds its own plant here.
You can scold, say that you could have assembled it using your own components.
What could have been assembled was assembled in 1996.
No speed, no reliability... Two-story circuit on wires,if you place it on the board, you'll end up with plywood that won't fit into a normal case.
That's why they installed the PLM. Almost all logic in one package. On the outside there are only
buffers, a processor, memory, a disk drive controller...
Plus they got the opportunity to _change the computer's layout_ on the fly.
Not cool?
Wow! The Protoss are attacking my Zerlings! It's time to get going. Ivan... data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=ru&q=http://www.atlant.ru/peters&source=gmail&ust=1785433319506000&usg=AOvVaw0gK4zACMiG_JbhbgJDwSzx">www.atlant.ru/peters *
RP>> work in two main modes - like Z80 and like Z380. Because In the
RP>> document I didn’t read the document thoroughly, I’m not sure if this is the case
RP>> in Z80 mode, but in the Z380 the R register can be used as a general-purpose register
RP>> - it is not used for regeneration and does not
RP>> change.
AI> is an interesting feature. in this case, compatibility with
AI> software for the z80 is lost.
With the R register, everything is fine in the Z380. There we turn on/off the regeneration mode, and
you can set the mode when R changes.
And its incompatibility is mainly only due to some undocumented
commands. It does not have that tricky shift that in the Z80, there is no command OUT (C),0
And working with half registers, for example, on the contrary, has become completely legal.
Wow! The Protoss are attacking my Zerlings! It's time to get going. Ivan... data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=ru&q=http://www.atlant.ru/peters&source=gmail&ust=1785433319509000&usg=AOvVaw0FTis4SySDjm1JPbQ3a5im">www.atlant.ru/peters *
All the best.
Sincerely, Roman.
AI> IMHO, that’s exactly what makes sense. to do differently is to get problems in
AI> the future.
By purchasing even a PC board you get problems “in the future”.
Putting excesses into the board you get problems “in the present”.
AI> of course, one person is capable of breaking his head in this matter and saying
AI> “no one else..”. but here we are not all on our own...
Idealist! It is not “we here” who should do something, but a specific person.
“We” can only help assess the needs of the people and more or less agree on
the necessary configuration. Well, you also need to choose specific circuit solutions for individual nodes. The _maximum_ that “we” can do is to organize a pre
order system to solve the problem of financing at the initial stage, but this is already VERY
difficult.
02 Aug 99 17:08, Dmitry Pavluhin -> Artur Ishmurzin:
AI>> IMHO, the z380 has a slightly different architecture than
AI>> z80. so it won't be possible to make them interchangeable.
AI>> in the best case, you can add a z380 so that it
AI>> works like a faster z80 and nothing else. all its
AI>> features and advantages will turn into smoke and dust :(.
DP> Everything is correct z380 is a 32-bit percentage, and outside there is a 16-bit
DP> bus. Therefore, when designing a new bus, it is necessary
DP> to consider the possibility of installing such a process. Then
DP> all its capabilities will not turn into dust.
There is a written documentation on the Z380.
Hy?
/ps: :((((Yegor Voznesensky stole his unique computer...
There was a message in PVT.EXCH.COMPUTER... A few months ago...
A it was truly a “bitter-breaking :) sight” - a 380
with a powerful MSX-3 video processor...
And all at his hands...
Sincerely, Wladimir
Mine is in Russian. Post?
Sincerely, Wladimir
AI>> doesn’t count) because the video controller is tightly tied to
AI>> other components of the computer, and its radical modification
AI>> automatically leads to plowing up the board.
RM> Rather than putting it in a slot, it’s better to make its structure flexible.
RM> This can be done in bulk, it can be done in PLM.
and it can be based on the z80. I remember this was done in ZXNext. just
I don’t know the details.
RM> can we go paint the chicken coops... When are you going to sell?
we still need to get to sales. and we scratch our tongues for the fact that later there were fewer
screams like “sucks! What a crazy fee” and further in the same spirit.
RM> I remember Mr. Maznitsa was here with Polyhedron, and in the Spectrum -
RM> Savichev with Phoenix-Tornado. And now they are trying to force the blaster
RM> to work as a Vicomm modem... the 'Skillful Hands' circle :)
I’m generally silent about the zx.spectrum. you look at it and an association arises with a
snowball that rolls down the mountain, picking up all sorts of things on its way... and
in general - “emulators - crush!” (c) VK
AI>> this is just _stupid_!
RM> I didn’t dismiss it! Let everyone install what they want!
RM> But why should a person pay money for something that he
RM> may never need (extra slots).
ok. agree. in this case, you need to decide on the minimum required
number of standard scorpion/kau slots. I think that 2 will be quite
sufficient for most users. for the rest, you can implement the so-called “extender” (from the practice of Scorpio). and a couple of system connectors for complex
devices such as an external video controller, etc.
RM> And the dimensions of the board are not unimportant! Here, for example, is the keyboard &
RM> mouse controller: if you make an upgrade, then take out the old board and insert
RM> a new one. The flop & screw controller too, (this is if you don’t accept
RM> Ivan Mak’s proposal about wiring these things in the motherboard).
well, of course.
RM> In short, we must _reasonably_ strive to reduce the cost, size, and
RM> the number of boards of the minimum configuration (it, the configuration, and so
RM> will not be weak).
so far we have come to the following:
the minimum set of boards with which the implementation is carried out full functionality.
1. motherboard
2. controller/keyboard buffer
3. beta disk interface
4. video controller
this is, so to speak, the maximum program. another option:
1. motherboard withintegrated B-D interface and keyboard buffer
2. video controller
all other accessories are not vitally necessary and can be installed at will.
as you can see, I still adhere to the opinion of removing the video from the board. since
its upgrade is inevitable.
RM> And one more thing. It’s probably still advisable to separate the board so that it can
RM> fully work on its own, so that it has everything you need. Messing with
RM> _sets_ of boards is more difficult for manufacturers and traders.
it is possible that way. but this will solve only half the problem. We'll just get a new board that satisfies most of the modern requirements for Spectrum-compatible machines, and that's all. a year and a half will pass and it will also begin to be entangled in a thick web of wires. There are enough examples - the same Pros, ATM. at the time these were advanced solutions. what now?
AI>> simmok will be great and cheap. so wait. :)
IM> Actually, this general upgrade has passed a long, long time ago. Nowadays there is a widespread
IM> upgrade to replace SIMM-72 with DIMM
this is for you, for us, and in general in large cities, the upgrade took place a long time ago. but he
wrote about 5007, if I'm not mistaken, Abakan. there's still more to come. here, with us, for example, at the moment the prices are as follows: 1M sim.30 - 1-1.25 ue.; 4M dimm72 - 3-4ue;
16M dimm - 17-18ue
IM> Well, it has some drawbacks. Like, “whistles wrong” and “flies
IM> low.” Surely, they are described in those same magazines, maybe
IM> exaggerated. And it has enough coolness.
IM> 4Mb, Z84C15 - 21Mhz, drive, screw, mouse controllers, PC-AT
IM> keyboards directly on the board. CMOS clock, ISA slots (inserted
IM> Hayes modem) Maximum video modes: 320x256 pixels 256 colors per
IM> point from a palette of 16 million colors 640x256 pixels 16 colors per point from a
IM> palette of 16 million colors 80x32 text mode, with a choice of character generators
IM> for each character, essentially a text mode, which has not 256
IM> characters, but up to 8192 characters, with color attributes of each
IM> character according to any standard, both Spectrum and CGA-based
this is all hardware and its characteristics, and in Presenting the capabilities of the z80
sounds pretty good. and most importantly? those. software, how are you doing with it? Of course, all of Spekov's software is suitable. but for the above-mentioned coolness there must be
something in order to use it to the fullest... for example, they wrote about the similarity of MD95
somewhere.
IM> And all this is just a field on which the first flowers of software and
IM> berries are already growing in the form of demo programs of video clips, scrolling
IM> straight from the screw, 3D demos with running through a labyrinth like 3D-wolf, and
wolf is not an indicator. IMHO, it sucks.
IM> music played from the screw in the background of this run... By the way, she has 17-25
I read somewhere that the spinter has a 4
channel covox for playing music. This, IMHO, is nonsense. for such a computer it was necessary to connect the GS, at least... or some analogue. but kovoks...
IM> frames per second on full screen 320x256 x 256 colors
IM> Connected CD-ROM, large screws (maximum connected
and the data speed from the CD and the screw?
IM> 4Gb and that’s not the limit, they just didn’t try to connect more)
the potential is solid, words no.
IM> And the negative attitude of the press is like beating the legs with sticks
IM> of a child learning to walk.
The press, apparently, greatly spoiled the market for the sprinter?
IM> The sprinter is not a PC or an Amiga. This is Spectrum. That is its very development.
IM> So, taken to the limit, when _everything is squeezed out of the Z80_
IM> So I say: _Install everything you can install_ because
IM> _disadvantages_ of Sprinter are the very thing that are not included on the board
IM> There is no Campston Mouse, (mouse its own)
not everyone needs it/can afford it, that's why it goes under the slot.
IM> There is no panel for AY (it is sewn into the PLM)
such a mistake cannot be made.
IM> Compatibility, damn it, is not 100%, but only 99.9%
IM> Although, in fact, it is all 120%, because Pentagon
IM> programs can also be run by Scorpio
if you make a new Spectrum Pentagon only board, I think no one will object
:)
IM> The main drawback is that Sprinter is not a cheap PC-486 and
IM> Pentium is not holds out. (nonsense...)
such words are all because for the price of the board it falls short...
IM> Well, as for the price, excuse me. A new board on imported components,
IM> such that no one produces in Russia and will not produce in the next 5
IM> years, unless ALTERA builds its own plant here. You can scold,
IM> say that you could have assembled it using your own components. What was
IM> could be collected was collected in 1996. Neither speed, nor reliability...
IM> The circuit is two-story on wires, if you put it on the board, you will get
IM> plywood, which will not fit into a normal case. That's why they installed PLM.
IM> Almost all the logic is in one package. On the outside there are only buffers, a processor,
IM> memory, a disk drive controller... Plus we got the opportunity to _change
IM> the computer's circuit_ on the fly.
IM> Not cool?
preliminary - cool. I wish I could see it with my own eyes:)).
One day, Friday August 06, 1999 08:03, Roman Milukov wrote to Artur Ishmurzin:
AI>> say “never again..”. but we are not all on our own here...
RM> Idealist! It’s not “we here” who should do something, but a specific person.
so what? this is bad? hmm... I know it's bad. I probably need another blow to the head from life in order to heal for a while. :(
RM> “We” can only help assess the needs of the people and more or less
RM> agree on the necessary configuration. Well, also choose specific
RM> circuit solutions for individual nodes. _The maximum_ that “we” can do is
RM> organize a pre-order system to solve the problem
RM> of financing at the initial stage, but this is already VERY difficult.
moral support is already a lot that means!
Hello, Ivan!
6 Aug 1999 you wrote here:
IM> Sprinter is not a PC or an Amiga. This is Spectrum. That very same development.
Don’t lie to me! Sprinter is not a PC, not an Amiga, but not a Spectrum either.
As in Agatha Christie’s song “neither here nor there...” :)
Be more precise: on the Sprinter you can _emulate_ the Spectrum, like many
other things not directly related to the Spectrum. The only thing they have in common is ZILOG.
[...]
IM> Not cool?
Cool, produce.
And to be offended by the press is like, you know, by a mirror.
If you had initially stated: “A Sprinter is a SPRINTER, not a Spectrum, but
it can also run Spec’s programs,” the bulk of the negative ones there would be no responses!
And you somewhat changed the traditional concept of a “platform model” by making
a “plasticine” computer. ;)
DP> Not more complicated than GS by the way :-P. The only problem is with the printed circuit board.
DP> 2ALL: no one has yet wired the dmasounda board?
Is the problem in the tracing, or is there nowhere to make them?
The first thing is done in the evening on a piece of paper. second - I don’t know how it is with
all sorts of production...
All the best.
Dmitry.
... LD..X-TRADE... [ZX]
RM>> make the Vicomm modem work... the 'Skillful Hands' circle :)
AI> I’m generally silent about the 3D Spectrum. you look at it and an
AI> association arises with a snowball that rolls down a mountain, picking up all sorts of things on its
AI> path... and in general - “emulators - crush!” (c) VK
I wouldn’t like to get into the off-topic, but I want to say that so far these are just
_your words_ you are no better and no worse than the above-mentioned individuals.
'It's not difficult to take a horse to a watering hole, but if you make it swim on
its back, it means you have achieved something' (c) forgot.
You still won't make the perfect board right away. Dozens of versions will pass until the board takes an acceptable form. First of all, this is money. Then time...
As an alternative solution, if you want to engage in, as Mr. Skutin puts it, “kitchen creativity” - you can take up and cooperate with the above-mentioned Nemo, engage in the distribution of blank boards of his brainchild,
develop peripherals, including a video processor, engage in software support,
well, and so on. Everything has more or less settled down there, and slot availability will allow
not to bother with the invention of lisapet.
Sincerely,
Renat
Hh, then the better slogan is “Long live the Eternal Upgrade”
See you Roman. I hope to see you again more than once.
... Write letters (c) Ostap Ibrahimovich Bender
Hello, Artur!
9 Aug 1999 you wrote here:
AI> the number of standard scorp/kau slots. I think that 2 will be quite
AI> enough for most users. for the rest, you can implement
AI> the so-called
AI> “expander” (from the practice of Scorpio). and a couple of system connectors for
complex
AI> devices such as an external video controller, etc.
I actually meant a system connector not for a video controller, but for
connecting that very “expander” or non-standard external devices.
And the video controller should be routed into the imho board, or at least - its own
slot.
AI> while we're here to the following:
[...]
AI> 1. motherboard with integrated B-D interface and keyboard buffer
...and hard drive buffer! It is simple, but long overdue!
AI> 2. video controller
OK.
But it’s better to install it in the board too.
[...]
And I repeat: you will never completely get rid of wires on a Spec.
AI> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and make it external?
AI> so
AI> I suggest making it as such right away and not bothering yourself in the future..
The standard video controller is not a big thing, but if you got the motherboard, then the
board There is no video controller (incomplete) - the computer will not work!