Isn't it time to make HDD a standard on Spec?

Thu Aug 27 1998 14:02 you wrote to All:

YZ> I had a substantive thought.

in this form it’s probably too early. and in the paraphrased 'to make a standard for hard drives on spec' is too late. ;)

YZ> After all, it would be much more convenient to work with mail on a screw.

and moreover, it would be more convenient to work not only with mail. but: the problem is as old as the world: which file system should we focus on? once again (and unfortunately, hardly the last) time I can announce what I think about it. to begin with, about “writing something absolutely your best” - as can be seen in practice, few people went beyond the first stage (theoretical), and in order to get something minimally suitable for the user, you need to do a lot more work. and from what already exists and is working
the minimum number of requirements can only be satisfied by isdos.
the main problem with the lack of memory for the program is actually solved
by expanding with an additional 80kb and subject to the banal rules in
organizing the interface with file calls, everything works quite stably. and
the reluctance to do something under isdos in 99% turns out to be simply due to
the lack of clarity of the available documentation.

YZ> I want to know if anyone can make (does) a normal postal
YZ> package withscrew support (obviously, the files on the screw were organized
YZ> smarter than in TypDos), a mailer and an email editor. But then
YZ> a small screw of 200 meters is not so expensive, and the convenience would be
YZ> incomparably greater than in a diskette-based system.

maybe someone does ;) I started from the opposite side of the editor and today,
we can say, there is half a mailer. half, because there is no node list yet and as a result of any actions related to the organization of outgoing calls. At the same time, there is already processing of incoming messages, understanding of BSO, simple events, all sorts of protocols (emsi/yoohoo, file xmodems, zmodems, hydra). in general, even now, if you install a normal modem and clear out more space
you can leave it for several days as your feed station.
further work is underway.. for now.. yes, probably, as long as I’m interested in doing it. and
if someone else finds it useful, then the interest can last longer..

Bye, Michael.

I think so too.

YZ> I want to know if anyone can make (does) a normal mail package with
YZ> screw support (obviously the files on the screw were organized smarter
than in
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No need for a screw just for the sake of mail files. There are Wasps for this
for example.

W!7h Be$7 W!$he$, FK0.

MK> in this form it’s probably too early. and in the paraphrased
MK> “to make a standard for LCDs on spec” is already too late. ;)

Is it necessary? Well SMOOK... And all other circuits are just buffers. And they are supported
excellently by their drivers, if there is any OS. And TR-DOS itself is not suitable for
screw - some complex controllers like SMUK are unlikely to become
massive...

MK> and moreover, it would be more convenient to work not only
MK> with mail. but: the old
MK> problem is as old as the world: what kind of file system should
MK> be oriented towards?
...
MK> from what already exists and works
MK> the minimum number of requirements can be satisfied
MK> for now only isdos.

Yes, the user, in general, doesn’t care - there will be software under is-dos, let's go under
is-dos.
If it is more convenient there.
For now, only Melon and ZED.

MK> reluctance to do something under isdos in 99% turns out to be
MK> simply due to
MK> insufficient clarity of the available documentation.
...

MK> maybe someone does ;) I started from the opposite direction editor
MK> side and today,
MK> we can say, there is half a mailer. half,
MK> because there is not yet all
MK> nodelist and as a result of any actions
MK> related to the organization
MK> of outgoing calls. it already existsprocessing
MK> incoming messages, understanding bso,
MK> simple events, all sorts of protocols (emsi/yoohoo,
MK> file xmodems, zmodems,
MK> hydra). in general, even now, if you install a normal
MK> modem and clear out more space
MK>, you can leave more for a few days as

What, is it necessary to have a screw?

MK> for your feed station.
MK> further work is underway.. for now.. yes, probably, while I
MK> are interested in doing this. and
MK> if someone else finds it useful, then the interest may
MK> last longer..

!!! If you make a “dialer to the boss” (or should I persuade him to call me? I don’t even know if this is possible?), then it will come in handy right away!

All the best.
Roman.

YZ> are organized smarter
KF> than in
KF> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KF> No need to screw just for the sake of mail files. There is for
KF> this Wasp. Id-Dos
KF> for example.
It is difficult to use a 200 megabyte screw under isdos, or not at all
possible, and small screws (not very used) are difficult to find.
I am not against normal wasps, but it is not observed yet.

See you. Jan Zagorskikh.

MK> maybe someone does ;) I started with the opposite side of the editor
MK> and today,
MK> we can say there is half a mailer. half,
MK> because there is not yet all
MK> nodelist and as a result of any actions
MK> related to the organization
MK> of outgoing calls. At the same time, there is already processing of
MK> incoming messages, understanding of bso,
MK> simple events, all sorts of protocols (emsi/yoohoo,
MK> file xmodems, zmodems,
MK> hydra). in general, even now if you install a normal
MK> modem and clear some space

Monday August 31 1998 10:17, Michael Kondratyev ─── Yan Zagorskih:

MK> xmodems, zmodems, hydra). in general, even now, if you install a normal
MK> modem and clear out more space, you can leave the
MK> as your feed station for several days. further work is underway.. for now.. yes
MK> I guess for now it’s interesting for me to do it. and if someone else finds it useful, then
MK> the interest may last longer..
Of course it’s interesting. We are already off our feet here, there is not enough time for everything.
We planned to start mailing last winter, but now we don’t hope before
this...

Good luck! Evgeny.

■ The night is shorter than the day... The day will kill me... The world of illusions burns down in it. (C) Aria.

RM> Is it necessary? Well SMOOK... And all other circuits are just buffers. And

I must say, not quite like that. With some hardware tricks you can significantly increase access speed. Moreover, there is practical
evidence of this.

RM> are perfectly supported by their drivers, if there is any OS. And
RM> TR-DOS itself is not suitable for a screw - some complex controllers
RM> like SMUK are unlikely to become widespread...

only what is produced can become widespread. is produced more
or less serially.

RM> Yes, the user, in general, doesn’t care - there will be software under is-dos, we’ll go under
RM> is-dos.
RM> If it’s more convenient there.
RM> For now, only Melon and ZED.

right, but it just remains to be understood, for now or in vain

MK>> more is possible leave for a few days as

RM> What, is it necessary to have a screw?

no, of course. It’s just that with the daily arrival at 1..2m there is nowhere else to go..

RM> !!! If you make a “dialer to the boss” (or should I persuade him to call me? I don’t even know if this is possible?), then it will come in handy right away!

├┤i Roman & Michael !

[...]

RM> the screw does not fit - some complex controllers like SMUK are unlikely to become
RM> widespread...

There are all the difficulties in the prof. ROM.

[...]

MK> no, of course. It’s just that with the daily arrival at 1..2m
MK> there is nowhere else to go..

I am subscribed to _all_ echoes we have about Spectrum, some more... in general
as much as I’m interested in and as much as I’m able to read. Average
"income" :) is about 200-500K per day. There is always enough floppy disks, well, almost always.

All the best.
Roman.

├┤i Michael & Roman !

[...]

MK> I must say, not quite like that. With some hardware tricks you can
noticeably
MK> increase the access speed. especially since there is practical
evidence
MK> of this.

Do you mean that when reading, the bytes are in normal
order, but when writing, the high and low order must be swapped? Or
the fact that for the choice of junior/senior it would have been advisable to choose
A8, and the remaining selection signals only in the low part of the address bus?
So the developers had ideas to install as few microcircuits
as possible, probably...

W!7h Be$7 W!$he$, FK0.

YZ> What kind of normal is this?

I think, at least one that doesn’t freeze, gives one
word ring, etc. for one call. because what it costs now is acceptable for tests over a wire
with a neighboring computer, but no more.

YZ> IMHO it will be cool if it does.

donno, after all, this is a pure mailer, which means it needs a tosser,
tracker (or at least a netmail packer)...

YZ> By the way, you don’t know what. Is there a limitation on the size
YZ> of the screw in isdos?

I am still not clear about the formulation of this question. de facto there is a limitation on the size of the device (16m) and on the number of these devices (8). however, no one has postulated so far (and is unlikely to dare ;]) anything more.

I repeat, because the question is still up in the air: are there any serious
arguments in favor of the fact that simultaneous access to a hundred megabytes for some
program will not be enough (with the caveat that changing this a hundred-megabyte layout can be easily brought to the level of executing an elementary command)?

Bye, Michael.

MK>> maybe someone does ;) I started with the opposite side of the editor
MK>> and today,
MK>> we can say there is half a mailer. half,
MK>> because there is not yet all
MK>> nodelist and as a result of any actions
MK>> related to the organization
MK>> of outgoing calls. At the same time, there is already processing
MK>> incoming messages, understanding bso,
MK>> simple events, all sorts of protocols (emsi/yoohoo,
MK>> file xmodems, zmodems,

MK> no, of course. it’s just that with the daily arrival at 1..2m
MK> there’s nowhere else to go..
RM>
RM> I’m subscribed to _all_ echoes we have about Spectrum, and
RM> some more... in general, as much as I’m interested in, and
RM> as much as I’m able to read. The average "income" :) is about
RM> 200-500K per day. There is always enough floppy disks, well, almost always.

And I get about one and a half disks a day, and sometimes more,
and these are only two large echoes + a bunch of small ones. If there had been a modem
for 14400, not 2400, and a screw, then I would have signed up for a bunch more,
So you have to choose the most necessary. So a screw
is needed. Yes, more, more =)))

See you. Jan Zagorskikh.

Thu Sep 10 1998, Boris Sokol squeezed the keyboard, hoping that the following words would reach Roman Milukov
:

[Skipped]

BS> In the meantime, I went around the dialer - my soaper calls the points itself, the main thing is
BS> so that
BS> the spec does not freeze Misha, I already have two of them!

[ ] - overquoting. Next time I will punish you (everyone is affected)!

[Team Kelly]
Hasta la vista.
Tim Kelly

RM> I am subscribed to _all_ echoes we have about Spectrum, some more... in
RM> in general, as much as I am interested in and as much as I am able to read.
RM> Average “income” :) about 200-500K per day. There is always enough floppy disks, well
RM> almost always.

And the Spec file, and jokes, and magic, etc. etc.
I’d like to read not only about speck, since I’ve already become a public figure :)

Boris.

BS> the main thing is that the spec
BS> does not freeze
BS> Misha, I already have two of them!

That’s right. I asked my boss, he says that he can easily install
so that his modem can dial up to mine.
But imho the “manual” mode should have been done first.

All the best.
Roman.

MK>
MK> the very formulation of this question is still not clear to me. de
MK> there is in fact a limitation
MK> on the size of the device (16m) and on the number of these devices
MK> (8). however, no one
MK> has so far postulated (and is unlikely to dare ;]) anything
MK> more.
MK>
MK> I repeat, because the question is still up in the air: are there
MK> any serious
MK> arguments in favor of the fact that simultaneous access to
MK> hundreds of megabytes for some
MK> program will not be enough (with the caveat that
MK> changing this hundred-megabyte
MK> layout can easily be brought to the level of executing
MK> an elementary command)?

It is possible and non-simultaneous, if the screw was used large.
There is one argument. It is not profitable to buy a small screw.
They are ancient, used, and can cost a lot.
If it is possible to work with a large screw, even
immediately completely inaccessible, then no problems.

See you. Jan Zagorskikh.

RM> I am subscribed to _all_ echoes about the Spectrum that we have, some more... in
RM> in general, as much as I am interested in and as much as I am able to read.
RM> The average “income” :) is about 200-500K per day. There is always enough floppy disks, well
RM> almost always.

RM> enough, well, almost always.

BS> And the Spec file, and jokes, and magic, etc. etc.
BS> You want to read not only about spec, since you've already become a public figure :)

You're right about the file. :) I completely forgot that I stopped asking uplinks for it
only because of the heavy traffic there, as far as I know (the line
is disgusting).
And anecdotes... I’ve been sitting in ZED for a very long time, I don’t have enough time.

All the best.
Roman.

MK>> you can significantly increase the access speed. especially since there are
MK>> practical evidence of this.

KF> Do you mean that when reading the bytes are in normal
KF> order, but when writing, the high and low order must be swapped? Or
KF> that for the choice of junior/senior it would have been advisable to choose
KF> A8, and the remaining selection signals only in the low part of the address bus?

I mean push/pop and the like.

KF> So the developers had thoughts of installing as few chips as possible
KF>, probably...

I don’t know, I’m not a developer ;)

Bye, Michael.

Sat Sep 12 1998 15:06 you wrote to Michael Kondratyev:

YZ> It is possible and non-simultaneous, if the screw was used large.

then we will agree in the answer to the previously posed question that 'can
be used somewhere within a gigabyte'

YZ> There is one argument. It is not profitable to buy a small screw.
YZ> They are ancient, used, and can cost a lot.
YZ> If it is possible to work with a large screw, even
YZ> immediately completely and inaccessible, then there will be no problems.

in general, for now there is such an opportunity..

Bye, Michael.

Sat Sep 12 1998 17:28 you wrote to Boris Sokol:

RM> That’s right. I asked my boss, he says that he can easily
RM> install it so that his modem can dial up to mine. But imho the “manual” mode
RM> should have been done first.

What do you mean by “manual”? by the way, we seem to have already learned how to call..

Bye, Michael.

├┤i Michael & Kirill !

[...]

MK> I mean push/pop and the like.

reading from a screw like pop : pop : pop ... ?
A recording push : push : push ... ???

What vulgarity! Some computers have a clock frequency
of 7 MHz and a complete absence of a bus, but still the percentage is overloaded.
And then the bits will be bent like with a momet or I need to do white
.

W!7h Be$7 W!$he$, FK0.

RM> “manual” mode should have been done first.

MK> what do you mean by “manual”? by the way, we seem to have already learned how to call
MK>..

Like in Melon.
So that at any time I can turn on the computer, load the mailer, call the node and
give/pick up mail.

All the best.
Roman.

Tue Sep 15 1998 02:52 you wrote to Michael Kondratyev:

KF> What vulgarity! Some computers have a clock frequency
KF> of 7 MHz and a complete absence of a bus, but still the percent is overloaded.
KF> And then the bits will be bent like with a Momed or I need to white
KF>.

and some computers don’t work at all

Bye, Michael.

Wed Sep 16 1998 08:56 you wrote to Michael Kondratyev:

RM> Like in Melon.
RM> So that at any time I could turn on the computer, load the mailer, call the
RM> node and give/pick up mail.

so now I turned it on, loaded it, and it calls whoever Nuna and Mona. will give what
they will take, will take what they will give..

and manual violence will soon appear.

Bye, Michael.