Zx Windows :-)
ZXNet echo conference «zxnet.soft»
Hello, scl^mc
Oh my god! I want it on my ZX!
Hello, flydream
yes is possible to run SymbOS on clones; has; clones memory mapping as a +3? I
think yes.
Anyway..... go to download section and change machine code (addresses) to
memory location and the SymbOS could run also on clones
Hello, flydream
i'm really shocked by that! and i really want this on my computer. and i'm
ready to buy spectrum versio
Hello, Surfin' Bird
Symbos is quite interesting, but if it will handle all russian clones and ofcoz
TRDos. If there is a way to make it compatible with all russian hardware then
it is the best OS for ZX atm!!! *
Keeping my fingers crossed for it 8)
-+--
* - at the moment, not the ATM Turbo :)
Hello, scl^mc
scl> you can play the music, video and see some pictrures at the same
scl> time. and also working in command line. absolutely perfect
Z80 CPU with 24MHz... :confused:
Hello, flydream
i saw demovideo file, and all that i can say is... fuckin' amazing!!! you can
play the music, video and see some pictrures at the same time. and also working
in command line. absolutely perfect :v2_clapp; :v2_clapp:; :v2_clapp:
Hello, scl^mc
i don't imagine how the multitasking is possible on ZX. or it's so-called
cooperative multitasking (windows3.11-like)? the software interrupts are so
slow and can be disabled, so i think it isn't a way to go.
Hello, cyrax inc
Yes it is a powered CPC 64 with Z80 at 24 Mhz!!!! see here;
http://www.symbos.de/trex.htm; (it's something like Atm Turbo / Sprinter)
:) and the vido is recorded with that computer!!!! but i think that cooperative
multitasking is possible to run it also in a 3.5 Mhz with some slowly
reflex.....
Hello, acidrain
aci> Wor you meant?
Video of the CPC TREX running SymbOS in Turbo Mode. The CPC TREX Turbo
Mode=24MHz.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Z80 CPU with 24MHz...
Wor you meant?
Hello, acidrain
aci> Ok, thanx! Anyway i believe some russian clones'll be fast enough as
aci> a CPC TREX (f.ex. sprinter) and maybe some machines in turbo mode
aci> will be good too.
aci> What do you think about SymbOS?
I think is WONDERFUL! :v2_finge:
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Video of the CPC TREX running SymbOS in Turbo Mode. The CPC TREX
Bla> Turbo Mode=24MHz.
Ok, thanx! Anyway i believe some russian clones'll be fast enough as a CPC TREX
(f.ex. sprinter) and maybe some machines in turbo mode will be good too.
What do you think about SymbOS?
Hello TomCaT
Then we’ll translate it and return it here.
Hello, flydream
TO RST#38, pleeeese.
Hello TomCaT
What kind of axis is this, can anyone explain it in Russian, and who will release it under
Sprinter & ATM?
Hello Surfin' Bird
Do you think it's easy to convert this OS to clones?
Hello Norman
Nor> What kind of axis is this, can anyone explain it in Russian, and who will be it
Nor> release for Sprinter & ATM?
If anyone does, I’m ready to pay my hard-earned money!
The axis is wonderful - judging by the videos, screenshots and declarations on the site -
a full-fledged multitasking operating system similar to Windows.
It's cooler :v2_cheer;
TO; It is relevant to us insofar as it is designed for 8-bit
Z80 based systems. That's what our spec is.
I want a graphic editor for it, and I’m ready to draw games!!!!
Hello Norman
Nor> What kind of axis is this, can anyone explain it in Russian, and who will be it
Nor> release for Sprinter & ATM?
Like who, the Chinese, oh, that is, the Spaniards or the Italians?
Well, in general, the main thing is that they ported it, I liked it.
But what to do with it then? There is no point in writing games for the axis, but system ones
Almost everything seems to be there.
Hello flydream
fly> Do you think it's easy to convert this OS to clones?
Give us the source and we will give you the answer. =)
Hello new art
Some people think that the SymbOS is a commercial project, please, FlyDream,
comment these sentences!
As far, as I know it is freely redistributable for amstrad, but will it be also
free of charge for spectrum and clones?
Sorry, some comments in Russian
-+---
Guys, at least use translate.ru, it doesn’t write to you in Italian!
Lack of culture, by God! =)
An axis is just an axis and there is no need to invent a great one - after all, everything is ready!
-+--
I meet some questions as "what is this OS for?" and so on. I believe there were
very much attempts to build new OS for spectrum but no one being realized. So
this would be wonderful if SymbOS will be available for ZX sooner or later!
Thanx, FlyDream! =)
Hello Norman
Nor> It's 4-color, judging by the screenshots, and there's not enough memory
Nor> supports - half a meter. And where can I get these 24 MHz on spec?
Nor> There are 10 meters of some other video...
It was made for two computers - for some kind of Amstrad and MSX2.
There are different graph modes on them.
The video shows a demonstration of working with the system, multitasking... Very impressive!
By the way, has anyone been able to run it on an MSX2 emulator?
Nor> Is it 4-color, by screenshots? And it looks like it supports little
Nor> amount of memory - only 1.5 mb. And where can you get 24 mhz on
Nor> speccy? And there are 10 mb of some video...
Currently it is made for two computers - for some Amstrad and for MSX2.
There are several different graphic modes on them. On video - demonstration of
work with system, multitasking... Very impressive!
By the way, is there anybody, who could start it on emulator of MSX2?
(Guys, if you find critical errors in the translation, please let me know)
(Dudes, if you'll fing some critical mistakes in translation, please let me
know:v2_sleep; );
Hello new art
It's 4-color, judging by the screenshots, and it doesn't support enough memory -
half a meter And where can I get these 24 MHz on spec?
There are 10 meters of some other video...
Hello Norman
Nor> It's 4-color, judging by the screenshots, and there's not enough memory
Nor> supports - half a meter. And where can I get these 24 MHz on spec?
Nor> There are 10 meters of some other video...
At least you can get this on one Spectrum - on Sprinter (21 MHz). Except
Moreover, if you use a regular ZX screen of 6912 bytes, then the clock frequency and
maybe less. 7 MHz is definitely enough... And if you use extended
graphics on ATM... Well, real multitasking is unlikely to work. But
pseudo-multitasking (only the task in the active window is executed, and the rest
"sleeping") is already a real thing, especially if you use the opportunity in ATM
Flip through pages in any address window. And such work is slowly progressing
within the framework of the OS TASiS project. And what is shown will be quite realistic and almost
“one to one” (even more flowers can be thrown) can be implemented in Turbo-3,
where there will be 21 MHz and a “far away” graphics chip.
Well, as for memory support, it’s difficult to support additional memory,
since it’s all the same to work with the source code. But it seems to me that in the screenshots
the minimum amount of memory for system operation is indicated - half a meter, not
her maximum support...
Hello, Surfin' Bird
> only 1.5 mb
no, only 512kb :)
Hello, Error404
Please open *.trd in your archives again and look:
-+- Doors;
Graphics; - an example of a really working graphical interface, with normal
speed of graphics and text output.
System - it’s a pity that there isn’t at least a notepad that reads and writes texts :(
-+- Myth OS;
Graphics; - also well implemented, you can move the windows.
System - only timer.exe starts normally :(
All this is a real example that the coders have achieved some goal, the programs are moving forward
on Spec without fancy vector fonts and other frills.
______________
in two words on English;
Doors; & Myth OS for ZX Spectrum is an example of what really runs on our clones
with 3.5Mhz CPU. i Afraid, our CPU can not print large portions of text, using
fonts as shown in SymbOS. More than half of Russian users have only 3.5Mhz
CPU.
Hello, Error404
Err> Everything went into demos...
3 demos a year, is that ALL?
Hello Vovoi
Vov> --- Doors;
Vov>; [skip] it’s a pity that there isn’t at least a notepad that can read and write texts :(
Vov> --- Myth OS;
Vov>; [skip] only timer.exe starts normally :(
Vov> All this is a real example that the coders have achieved some goal
Vov> programs run on Spec without fancy vector fonts and other things
Vov> excesses.
Vov>
All this is a real example of what needs to be screwed into a common system
GUI and switched multitasking (it will allow you to save all the software), and not
compose something, inviting everyone to fill the vacuum with self-written software (How many
applications for SymbOS? Four (!) seems to have been six months ago, when I talked about her
I read it, now I don’t even want to read it again). There is no one to fill out now
vacuum, this is what we need to proceed from. For example, I don’t care what happens there
act as a notepad - whether WordStar, vi/emacs, or something else. But write
WordStar again only because there is a system with windows and you need to somehow
At least dragging something there is nonsense.
Hello new art
new> Quote:
new> Message from Error404
new> Everything went into demos...
new>
new> 3 demos a year, is that ALL?
Well, I don’t know... Apparently yes. :) There is even less systemic stuff. Even on the local forum
The OS section is the most overgrown with cobwebs...
Hello, Maksagor
> On one Spectrum you can at least get this - on Sprinter
> (21MHz). In addition, if you use a regular ZX screen of 6912 bytes,
> then the clock frequency may be lower. 7 MHz is definitely enough... A
> if you use advanced graphics on ATM... Well, real
> multitasking is unlikely to work. But pseudo-multitasking
> (only the task in the active window is executed, while the rest are "sleeping") - already
> this is a real thing, especially if you use the ability to scroll through ATM
> pages in any address window.
Uzix (UZI) is much more native to any Z80 system. Sources are available at
SourceForge. I don’t understand what excited everyone so much... Graphics? If you need graphics, then
You need to use standards; for 8-bit VNC will work just fine. And don’t fence with anyone
than incompatible - it doesn’t hurt someone writes something nowadays, even systemic
(which is simpler and more interesting). Everything went into demos... :v2_wink2;
A; for acceptable multitasking on 8-bit processors with a low clock rate, no
the number of ZX-like dispatchers (16k per window) will not help. Need a dispatcher
64k to switch entire pages (entire processes) with one command,
without LDIRs.
Hello, flydream
fly> ...SymbOS (www.symbos.de) is a "Windows like" operating system for
fly> Z80 computers... ....But Doors is already a very great Windows
fly> OS....
fly>
Nah!
We hate windoze and all windoze-alike :) Command line rulez!
TR-Dos uses command-line, and therefore rulez forever. :-) ..Multitasking is
designed for PC, where CPU is usually idling in basic programs or message
loops. Therefore, singletasking is rulez forever. :-) Also, why it not
Vista-looked? We wana Vista look! :-)
Hello, Error404
Err> All this is a real example of what is needed for a common system
Err> attach GUI and switched multitasking (it will allow
Err> save all software), and not compose something, asking everyone to fill it in
Err> vacuum with home-written software (How many applications are there for SymbOS? Four
Err> (!) it seems like it was six months ago when I read about it, now it’s already
Err> I don’t want to read it again). There is no one now to fill the vacuum, from
Err> this is what we need to assume. For example, I don’t care what happens there
Err> act as a notepad - whether WordStar, vi/emacs, or something else. But
Err> write WordStar again only because there is a system with windows and
Err> you need to at least somehow drag something there - this is nonsense.
perhaps OS tasis will be that product
Hello, Raider
Rai> Multitasking is designed for PC, where CPU is usually idling in basic
Rai> programs or message loops
also multitasking is used in some not-pc-computers; amiga/pegasos,; macintosh.
am i right?
Rai> We wana Vista look! :-)
windows vista is evil! i won't use it. neve
Hello new art
new> Give us the sources and we will give the answer. =)
Doc;
http://www.symbos.de/download/symbos-doc-develop.zip;
Code;
http://www.symbos.de/download/symbos-doc-library.zip;
:) ;) :cool; :v2_thumb:;
Hello, scl^mc
scl> also multitasking is used in some not-pc-computers; amiga/pegasos,;
scl> macintosh. am i right?
scl>
Yes. First multitasking computer was Sinclair QL !!!!! "cousin" of Zx Spectrum
:cool:
Hello, scl^mc
scl> perhaps OS tasis will be that product
OS TASiS designed for Turbo-2+ only, and used non ZX compatible mode. The
multitasking TASiS - is a future project. The SymbOS is reality.
For ZX, TASiS does not exist and is not being developed. Active multitasking
TASiS is not there yet and it is not known when it will be, but SymbOS is already there.
Hello, scl^mc
scl> also multitasking is used in some not-pc-computers; amiga/pegasos,;
scl> macintosh. am i right?
scl> windows vista is evil! i won't use it. never
Its all joking, nothing more :)
Hello, flydream
fly> Yes. First multitasking computer was Sinclair QL !!!!! "cousin" of Zx
fly> Spectrum :cool;
Not; really. I suppose time-slicing was implemented much earlier, i think
50..60s, when hardware costs was high. Multitasking invented due to excessive
hardware cost, to allow programmers share machine time (while one programmer
does debugging - other running its program).
Also, ZX spectrum 48 was multitaskable, remeber beta-basic (correct me if I
wrong) and onscreen clock :)
Also more. When I working in some sort of assembler, and swithing back to
basic, or maybe to debugger... What is that, if not sort of multitasking? ;-)
Why to run all programs in parallel, and switch to each constantly? Better to
switch on demand :-)
Flydream, tell us about Sinclair ZX spectrum community in your fatherland? How
things going?
Hello, Raider
Rai> Its all joking, nothing more :)
i'm joking too :D
Hello, Error404
Err> No OS required for ZX. For ZX you need a toy launcher. Talk about OS
Err> makes sense only for 8-bit, having at least some minimum
Err> resources. Not one OS can live in 48k. Why do we need another one
Err> Contiki? Who is interested in tinkering with assembler, counting the lengths of commands in
Err> bytes? What can you do on a 6K graphics screen besides toys?
Err> The OS is needed specifically for extensions that must have full 64k
Err> addressing RAM and non-standard extensions through standard drivers:
Err> normal text console, which you don’t have to worry about
Err> memory expansion, some input/output devices. OS implementations
Err> can be discussed. One thing is pointless to discuss - an OS for the sake of an OS is ridiculous.
Err> For 8080/Z80, for example, the standard is CP/M. Programs like this
Err> class, as they wrote under it then, now no one will write:
Err> professionals have gone where the money is. Any new OS IMHO should be able to
Err> emulate the CP/M environment, standard text terminals (at leastErr> VTxxx), have development tools (at least from the same CP/M),
Err> have libraries that wrap all system calls for basic ones
Err> Java language (at least libc). This is what UZIX does, for example; turned out; clone
Err> *nix, in which CP/M programs - compilers - work normally
Err> word processors, databases, tables, etc. - inheriting all the advantages, that
Err> multitasking, modularity, network transports. And write
Err> system for which the software needs to be made anew and in a special way -
Err> is stupid. And adaptability or non-adaptability of this OS to some
Err> the piece of hardware is the first thing. It’s a glitch to put on, it’s already a wish:
Err> someone needs it, but someone doesn’t. And you need to hook it whenever possible
Err> is standard (there are even ready-made developments for 8-bits, for example
Err> the same uVNC), and not create an incompatible gui. Talk about
Err> advantages of the OS you need to have 20,000 programs for it on hand, otherwise it
Err> is not an OS, but another “sailboat in a bottle” - surprising and interesting...Err> in the first half of the day... Just another demo - side view...
I absolutely agree. And from this perspective, OS TASiS and ATM are simply created for each other
friend!
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> OS TASiS designed for Turbo-2+ only, and used non ZX compatible mode.
Bla> The multitasking TASiS - is a future project. The SymbOS - is
Bla> reality.
Bla> For ZX, TASiS - does not exist and is not being developed. Current
Bla> multitasking TASiS - not yet and it is not known when it will be, but SymbOS -
Bla> already exists.
No OS required for ZX. For ZX you need a toy launcher. It makes sense to talk about the OS
only for 8-bit, having at least some minimum resources. Living in 48k is not alone
The OS won't be able to. Why do we need another Contiki? Who's interested in tinkering with
assembler, counting the length of instructions in bytes? What can you do on the graphic
6k screen except for toys? The OS is needed specifically for extensions that need to
be full 64k RAM addressing and non-standard extensions through standard
drivers: a normal text console that doesn’t require you to rack your eyes,
memory expansion, some input/output devices. OS implementations can be
discuss. One thing is pointless to discuss - an OS for the sake of an OS is ridiculous. For 8080/Z80, to
for example, the standard is CP/M. Programs of this class, as they wrote then under
no one will write about it now: the professionals have gone where the money is. Any
new OS IMHO should be able to emulate the CP/M environment, standard textterminals (at least VTxxx), have development tools (at least from the same
CP/M), have libraries that wrap all system calls for basic Java programs
(at least libc). This is what UZIX does, for example; turned out; *nix clone, in
in which CP/M programs work normally - compilers, word processors,
Databases, tables, etc. - inheriting all the advantages, the same multitasking, modularity,
network transports. And write a system for which the software needs to be remade and
in a special way - stupid. And adaptability or non-adaptability of this OS under
some kind of piece of hardware is the first thing. It’s a glitch to put on, this is already a wish:
Some people need it, some don't. And you need to hook it up as standard as possible
(there are even ready-made developments for 8-bit, for example the same uVNC), and not
compose a gui that is incompatible with anything. To talk about the merits of the OS you need to have
there are 20,000 programs for it in your hands, otherwise it’s not an OS, but another “sailboat in a bottle”
- amazing and interesting... in the first half of the day... Just another deme - view
from the side...
Hello flydream
Err> No OS required for ZX.
It is better to make such proposals in a separate topic, rather than interfere with
discussions.
Hello, Error404
Err> .............
Err> For 8080/Z80, for example, the standard is CP/M
Err> ............................
Err> Just another demo - side view...
+999!
Damn, I agree with every word.
And about professionals and money - this is an answer to the topic about our programmers :)
Hello, Error404
Err> and not create a gui that is incompatible with anything. Talk about the merits of the OS
Err> you need to have 20,000 programs for it, otherwise it’s not an OS, but
Err> another "sailboat in a bottle" - surprising and interesting... for the first time
Err> half a day... Just another demo - side view...
It’s good to cut at the roots, but what suggestions do you have?
Hello, captain cobalt
cap> It is better to make such proposals in a separate topic, rather than
cap> intervene in discussions.
And what kind of discussion was it that I disrupted (and where did I
violated?)? :v2_conf2; Or; Does the section format only allow "approvals"? A
the quote from me looks “off topic” because there is no need to pull phrases from
context.
Okay, I'm leaving, continue...
Hello Raider
I don't care about ranting about the possibility of impossibility and
the need and the need for a new OS. I see a beautiful, convenient MULTI-TASKING system, and
I want her.
Those who have enough Spectrum as a gaming machine can play quietly. And for me,
Sorry, I need a count. editor, video player, text editor normal,
music player.
And for the sake of this, I’m not at all a fool, for example, I’ll install 256kb of memory and
percent for as many_as_needed_MHz. Well, without a mouse, any computer is not a computer
(at least for the artist).
And one more thing. Maybe someone considers the ability to exchange data between
applications, the ability to listen to music while working, the ability
will temporarily switch to another application without worrying about saving the file in
current...
Guys, march to the calculators! Why do you need a computer?
Hello flydream
We discussed SymbOS recently:
http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=3196
Our experts discovered serious shortcomings. :)
Hello,GriV
Gri> It’s good to cut at the root, but what suggestions do you have?
It looks like I'm speaking against it. And I’m not talking against it, authors
are engaged in creativity, it is honorable and serious. I say I don't understand why
the authors so easily send to the landfill a fund of software that they cannot create equal to
(with all due respect). Or I missed something, but I didn't find any links to support
CP/M (there is a mention of COM files, but as I understand from the context, it’s clearly
It doesn’t say there, it’s not CP/M, it’s something MS-DOS-like). A year ago I went
to the SymbiOS website, I immediately lost interest, now I see the same thing. I wonder if this
Is this a fundamental question, or were you just too lazy/didn’t have time? If the second, then everything is not
so hopeless. But there are doubts.
I have already cited UZIX as an example. There is no video player, but there is a complete implementation
TCP/IP and CP/M emulator. And this, it seems to me, is more important than any windows. Without
I can get by with a calculator. But the IRC application (in UZIX), this is in my opinion
- yes, an indicator of the system level. I would even say - an indicator of worldview.
By the way, UZIX also has windows. But it really doesn't matter, IMHO.
However, Sym has an advantage: the author is involved in it and can and will make a port for the ZX clone (for
standard 48k - it won’t work, obviously).
To summarize: TCP/IP, CP/M, multitasking - this is what I definitely see in
perfect :) OS for Z80.
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> I don’t care about ranting about the possibility of impossibility and
Sur> need and no need for a new OS. I see a beautiful, convenient MULTITASKING
Sur> system, and I want it.
Sur> Those who have enough Spectrum as a gaming machine can easily play.
Sur> And I, excuse me, need a graph. editor, video player, text editor
Sur> normal, music player.
Sur> ....Maybe someone considers the ability to exchange data between
Sur> applications, the ability to listen to music while working,
Sur> the ability to temporarily switch to another application without worrying
Sur> without saving the file in the current...
Sur>
I had all this in 1996 in CP/M (though on Orion): pseudo-multitasking:
main CP/M application (any) and in interrupt-switched mode
specially developed applications - all sorts of windows, players, calculators,
debuggers, program managers, on-the-fly antiviruses, etc. But that’s not the point
same essence. The main thing is that such a question as “everything seems good and wonderful, but
there is no normal editor/compiler/archiver" did not arise in principle. OrI don’t understand why I need proprietary software? Or other than typing
(by the way, what about files that don’t fit into RAM? ;) ) do you need anything?
And for ZX, if I understand correctly, there is no SymbOS port yet and it is not known whether it will be.
So, if you are going to improve it, make a CP/M emulator, it’s obvious
necessary.
Hello, Error404
Err> No OS required for ZX. For ZX you need a toy launcher. Talk about OS
Err> makes sense only for 8-bit, having at least some minimum
Err> resources. Not one OS can live in 48k. Why do we need another one
Err> Contiki? Who is interested in tinkering with assembler, counting the lengths of commands in
Err> bytes? What can you do on a 6K graphics screen besides toys?
Err> The OS is needed specifically for extensions that must have full 64k
Err> addressing RAM and non-standard extensions through standard drivers:
Err> normal text console, which you don’t have to worry about
Err> memory expansion, some input/output devices. OS implementations
Err> can be discussed. One thing is pointless to discuss - an OS for the sake of an OS is ridiculous.
Err> For 8080/Z80, for example, the standard is CP/M. Programs like this
Err> class, as they wrote under it then, now no one will write:
Err> professionals have gone where the money is. Any new OS IMHO should be able to
Err> emulate the CP/M environment, standard text terminals (at leastErr> VTxxx), have development tools (at least from the same CP/M),
Err> have libraries that wrap all system calls for basic ones
Err> Java language (at least libc). This is what UZIX does, for example; turned out; clone
Err> *nix, in which CP/M programs - compilers - work normally
Err> word processors, databases, tables, etc. - inheriting all the advantages, that
Err> multitasking, modularity, network transports. And write
Err> system for which the software needs to be made anew and in a special way -
Err> is stupid. And adaptability or non-adaptability of this OS to some
Err> the piece of hardware is the first thing. It’s a glitch to put on, it’s already a wish:
Err> someone needs it, but someone doesn’t. And you need to hook it whenever possible
Err> is standard (there are even ready-made developments for 8-bits, for example
Err> the same uVNC), and not create an incompatible gui. Talk about
Err> advantages of the OS you need to have 20,000 programs for it on hand, otherwise it
Err> is not an OS, but another “sailboat in a bottle” - surprising and interesting...Err> in the first half of the day... Just another demo - side view...
I agree with you. On 48 KB it is not possible to have a good OS, but for a powerful
clone may also have SymbOS :v2_cheer;
>; Not really. I suppose time-slicing was implemented much earlier, i
> think 50..60s, when hardware costs were high. Multitasking invented
> due to excessive hardware cost, to allow programmers share machine
> time (while one programmer does debugging - other running its
> program).
>
yes but Z80 CPU is not made for multitasking processes. So it is possible to
use a not real multitasking. I remember a game for my 48K; during; loading
(from tape) was possible to play a "Pac Man" clone :-) it was funny! A first
loading (very fast) there was PacMan game playable during there was the main
loading of the game.
> Also, ZX spectrum 48 was multitaskable, remeber beta-basic (correct
> me if I wrong) and onscreen clock :)
>
I don't know...i have never used it
> Also more. When I working in some sort of assembler, and swithing
> back to basic, or maybe to debugger... What is that, if not sort of> multitasking? ;-)
>
yes yes... something like that ;-)
> Flydream, tell us about Sinclair ZX spectrum community in your
> fatherland? How things going?
>
good! :-) thanks!!!!! The last "novosti" :-) is a MMC interface for original
Sinclair and clones (with expansion bus)
http://www.zxbada.bbk.org/zxmmc/
:v2_finge:
Hello, captain cobalt
Yes, now the use of the OS on the ZX is very limited by the capabilities of the computer,
therefore, for the classic ZX, a simple launcher would probably be enough,
This is especially good when working in a client-server system. But there will be more
fast ZX (Caro project for example, or ReSpecT project from Fan - very useful
promising design in terms of overclocking, pay special attention to it) and with
the OS itself and programs running on the OS can quite realistically work with them, but how
It is known: “a spoon is dear to dinner.” The appearance of fast ZX is just around the corner, but
There is no complete axis for the ZX other than iS-DOS. So what's special
You don’t have to pick and choose - whatever is ready, you’ll have to work with.
Of course, I would like UZIX under ZX. So what if it doesn’t exist, but at the same time there will be
a ready-made port of SymbOS, so why not use it for ideological reasons?
In addition, for different applications, preferences given to different operating systems are quite possible.
To summarize regarding the OS: a lot is not a little. OS diversity is
right, wrong - this is the erosion of the ZX platform by all sorts of leftists
"improvements" that have nothing to do with ZX.
Hello flydream
I have a similar opinion.
In general, it is initially clear that this OS is a “sailboat in a bottle”..
By the way, it’s a beautiful expression, I’ll have to remember it.. I was all about OS
of course, back in 1996. (Where is IsDos? What is under it
the last practical one was written? :) Or am I just not aware?) Where is CP/M
under Profi or under ATM Turbo? =) All this is doomed to decay exponentially,
like circles from a stone thrown into water. Without thousands of programs, it's all just a mock-up,
demo
But I never object to the axes, because it breeds flames and hatred
fans =) Back compatibility is a must. But she's not here.
Solution that will be “live”:
1. realtime multitasking is not needed.
2. Drop into task manager via NMI
3. RAM should be as much as possible
4. Instead of cd-rom and hdd, you can add a Flash USB drive. They now cost 500 rubles
per GB
5. The hardware must support switching of 4 memory banks at addresses 0..3fff,
4000..7fff, 8000..bfff, c000...ffff . Moreover, the ports should not only be
write-only.
- all this is generally not news. It was similar on ATM+honey commander or on
Scorpio. Only they didn’t have a memory-ramdrive where they could secretly
"hide" pages of the 128th Spectrum when switching tasks. and there wasn't
flash-disk and everything was not so global. And so the essence is the same...
Hello Raider
Having followed FlyDream’s link, I realized that it’s better to use something other than USB Flash
drive, and memory cards. It's easier and cheaper.
Hello Raider
How to drop out in task manager via NMI.
You need to build additional hardware on the FPGA (IMHO design something now
not using PLIS is harming yourself..) then you can arrange it so that by pressing the button
the following happened:
1. the “system” 64KB address space is turned on (which was not lost,
it can be considered).
2. NMI occurs. Or instead, a command code is issued directly to the bus
transition (or sequence of commands).
Hello Raider
Working on such a machine looks like this.
Turn it on - the bootloader is loaded from the flash drive which loads the Spectrum ROM into memory,
TrDos ROM, all the necessary system software.
Switch to assembler and assemble.
We switch to a text editor and write.
We switch to Lara and work with FTN.
We switch to a toy and play.
If you need something, read it from a USB Flash Disk. Or we ship.
I’m just glad to have a set of such “parallel spectra” in a large memory.
Not everything is so smooth. When working with TR-DOS, you won’t be able to switch like this
between “tasks”, because the controller chip and state variables are closely
tied. But there is still a way out - or not to use TRDOS when working with
disks, but use its emulation (and normal, since any page,
Wh and ROM are available for modification). also when working with AY, some
minor problems. But this is all a trifle. We can overcome it.
IMHO this makes sense. and the invention of axles and new pieces of iron for which
nothing will happen - it makes no sense. Pretty, self-affirming, but useless...
Hello, Error404
Err> I have already given UZIX as an example.
Who do not allow you to port UZIX?
Hello, scl^mc
scl> also multitasking is used in some not-pc-computers; amiga/pegasos,;
scl> macintosh. am i right?
Yes, you do. And amiga is one of the most world's first real multitasking
computer! =)
Hello flydream
Hardware NMI, etc. are all exotic.
You should focus on mass Spectrums and adapt programs to the axis.
Hello Raider
Rai> I have a similar opinion.
Rai> In general, it is initially clear that this OS is a “sailboat in
Rai> bottle".. By the way, a beautiful expression, I will need to remember.. Me
Rai> all this about the OS was clear back in 1996. (Where is IsDos?
Rai> What was the latest practical thing written for it? :) Or I just
Rai> not aware?)
You really don't know. OS TASiS is precisely the further development of iS-DOS. Under
Over the past year, a ton of programs have been written (some of them are also available on regular
iS-DOS), including a CD player and CD copier for the ATM and KAY IDE interfaces.
> Where is CP/M under Profi or under ATM Turbo? =) All this is doomed
> decay exponentially, like circles from a stone thrown into water. Without
> thousands of programs, all this is just a mock-up, a demo.
I won’t say anything about Pro, but on ATM this OSka is alive and well (the latest
the programs that were written for it, including by me, date back to 2005
year), although since 2006 we (NedoPC) have deliberately shifted our focus towards
TASiS. I hope it’s clear why.
> But I never object to the axes, because it breeds flames and> hatred of fans =) Back compatibility is a necessity. And here she is
> no.
As for back-compatibility, this is exactly what is provided in TASiS both by
relation to iS-DOS, and, as impossible as it may seem, to TR-DOS (due to
fundamentally new BIOS and software emulator VG93), so you can
on the TASiS/iS-DOS command line, specify the path to the image with TR-DOS programs,
launch this software, and at the output automatically go to the TASiS place from where
these programs were launched.
> Solution which will be “live”:
> 1. realtime multitasking is not needed.
If you can do it and it will work normally (although I doubt it), then
why not use this?
> 2. Drop into task manager via NMI
In Turbo 2+ it is supported programmatically in the BIOS - you can load a custom processor
MAGIC in Virtual TR-DOS - but not yet used: no plugin handler yet
I didn’t get the chance to write it, although its format and loading method are described. Apparently
no one needs it.
> 3. RAM should be as large as possible
That's great! The minimum is 1024Kb so that the TRD images fit completely.
> 4. Instead of cd-rom and hdd, you can add a Flash USB drive. They are now
> cost 500 rubles per GB.Instead of HDD - you can. Don't touch the CD! It won't hurt.
> 5. hardware must support switching of 4 memory banks at addresses
> 0..3fff, 4000..7fff, 8000..bfff, c000...ffff . Moreover, the ports should
> be not only write-only.
It has existed for a long time on Turbo 2+ (and you can do this not only with RAM, but also with ROM
switch), however, only for recording. But the problem is solved by using
ports not directly, but through the OS, which will remember the configuration internally
yourself. This is exactly what is done in TASiS through new system restarts. All programs
click pages through them, and through them restore the system
memory manager configuration. And it turns out a very good situation: everything
programs written for regular TR-DOS under spec-128 do not know anything about
switching windows, nor about memory above 128Kb (just in case there is still
BIOS memory protection over 128Kb costs), and the system, knowing this, actively changes
configuration for current needs. As a result, we get the opportunity
systems to launch tRD software and return from it.
> - all this is generally not news. A similar thing happened at ATM+honey
> commander or on a scorpion. Only they didn’t have memory - ramdrive where
> it would be possible to secretly “hide” the pages of the 128th Spectrum at> task switching.
What's wrong is that Turbo 2+ (1024Kb) has enough memory for this. Moreover,
It is possible, if you work under the system, to organize task swapping on the screw...
> and there was no flash-disk and everything was not so global. And so the gist of it is
> well...
And in general, why was it? Are you aware of the latest developments on ATM-turbo 2+ for
the last two years? If not, I recommend checking out:
http://nedopc.com
http://atmturbo.nedopc.com
Hello Raider
Rai> Having followed FlyDream's link, I realized that it is better to use not even
Rai> USB Flash drive, and memory cards. It's easier and cheaper.
And most importantly, there is no need to install any new hardware controllers. Enough
use the existing IDE interface via an adapter...
Hello, Error404
Err> I had all this in 1996 in CP/M (though on Orion):
Err> pseudo-multitasking: main CP/M application (any) and
Err> interrupt-switched mode specially developed
Err> applications - all sorts of windows, players, calculators, debuggers,
Err> program managers, on-the-fly antiviruses, etc. But that’s not the point
Err> is the point. The main thing is that such a question as “everything seems fine and
Err> great, but there is no normal editor/compiler/archiver"
Err> arose in principle. Or I don’t clearly explain why it’s needed
Err> proprietary software? Or besides typing (by the way, what about files by
Err> size that does not fit into RAM? ) do you need anything?
I did much of the above with the help of my Scorpio in 95-96. So maybe
Is it better for everyone to immediately change into scorps or write an emulator? 8)
Hello, Maksagor
> You really don’t know. OS TASiS is precisely a further development
> iS-DOS. Over the past year, a ton of programs have been written for it (some of
> they also work on regular iS-DOS), including a CD player and a CD copier
> for ATM and KAY IDE interfaces.
>
I agree that I am not in the know. So far you've mentioned two utilities. The first transmits CD
command to play =) The second one performs the BIOS + driver function. U
By the way, I have a question in passing - they somehow work in parallel with each other,
residents?
and I still don’t understand what other serious practical programs have been created
(at least for all time). I searched this forum and didn't see anything...
> I won’t say anything about Pro, but on ATM this OS is alive and well
> (the latest programs that were written for it, including by me,
> date back to 2005), although since 2006 we (NedoPC) have consciously
> we shift the emphasis towards TASiS. I hope it’s clear why.
> As for back-compatibility, this is exactly what is provided in TASiS
> both in relation to iS-DOS, and, as impossible as it may seem -> to TR-DOS (due to a fundamentally new BIOS and software emulator
> VG93), so you can specify the path to on the TASiS/iS-DOS command line
> image with TR-DOS programs, run this software, and at the output
> automatically get to the TASiS location from where it was launched
> programs.
>
I still don't understand. How is back-compatibility ensured?
only at the call level? This is not back-compatibility.
Backward compatibility is when you put any program in and it works in
exactly the same as it worked on the original computer, without following any rules
and without any reservations.
Although I’ll pause at this point. I clearly see that you are a fan of two things -
firstly ATM turbo, secondly TASiS itself, nee ISDos. Therefore
It’s clear that your opinion will be biased in advance :)
I'll just speak for myself.
I am a practical person. - For me, ISDOS was just such a “sailboat in
bottle." She gave me absolutely nothing significant... Practical.
New. Moreover, it seemed funny to me that this "OS" after launch
another Spectrum program or reset was needed every time
reload from disk. Who knows. Maybe just because I already had time
feel the normal systems. Managed to communicate with MSX2 (including its network,and this is a strong thing), with the Corvette, and of course with the PC. Before this I had experience
debugging builds and work with simpler machines with only 4kb of software and
loading software from cassettes (Specialist).
Above I suggested banality. Everything that interests me (was interesting at that time),
this is really a “launcher” for Spectrum programs that are written for
regular Spectrum. And some kind of garbage that allows you to interrupt work
Spectrum program, and quietly switch to another Spectrum
program - without unloading the previous one. Yes, maybe it can still ship some
snapshots. Well, there may also be a manager for these same programs in memory
(task manager) and some manager on disk (disk shell). That's all
necessary for happiness.
I will note the main thing that may be left behind the scenes -. All my suggestions are
are not some kind of development of Spectrum, its architecture, system creation
drivers, some new APIs...
They are not aimed at this and have never been directed at this. This is all purely utilitarian
a shell, a lotion inside of which the Spectrum itself remains as it was. Without any
any development. Because it is a dead end. Or rather, it goes in the wrong direction.
I somehow immediately felt with common sense the dead end of any evolutionary
Spectrum development. Because firstly, they already exist and have existed for moreinteresting machines that are superior to the Spectrum in what they do (msx, pc... for example
I was excited by Dandy, especially when I saw that everything was collected there on one
chip). And secondly, all this invention took the Spectrum out of its niche,
catastrophically reducing the chances of software production.
Likewise, the purpose of ATM was unclear to me. Do you want laughter? I collected in
Novosibirsk Spectrum for sale. Including the latest ATMs on large
square boards with greenery (not the ones on your website). Rarely
huge, useless at that time and capricious units (and expensive, of course).
We had those who forced ATMs to work with several lines of RU7s
highly respected :))
So here's the funny thing - at home I had a homemade Spectrum with hanging
memory, AY-com and tr-dos, not ATM :)
I understand that a hobby is a hobby. It's for those who are passionate. And I accept and
I respect your hobby :)
Everyone chooses how to kill time. Well, let's say - someone will twirl their temple
at the finger and call me a fool, saying, you couldn’t think of anything better than
write such posts on a very specific forum?
Or the fact that despite the fact that I have access to some of the most powerful computers, I
I continue to rush around with Pectrum.. Also, whatever one may say, it’s a twist... And... also
RST7 is now the funniest quirk - it picks Siemens cell phones. They themhack to be able to run their ARM code, dig the firmware, find
useful functions and make libraries. Also a cool thing in its own way -
The device is the size of a playing card, and inside there is a 32bit processor at 125Mhz. And
your program is on it! Cool? Cool! :) :)
..But if you think specifically about the spektrumists, (I think and have thought about them
interests, in the interests, it seems to me, of the majority) - the things we are discussing
(including the latest all such graphical OS) is beyond these interests, because
that this is no longer a Spectrum, this is something that can still run
Spectrum programs as one of the functions.
But everything else is not for me or (from my point of view) for any of the spektrumists.
necessary. I repeat, this is just my personal point of view, completely good-natured and
maybe it’s wrong (I’m old-fashioned, full of common sense and practical :)
)
So these are the pies.. This, therefore, is my opinion on this issue =)
Hello Raider
Of course, you’re right about almost everything, if only this rightness would also give you a “launcher”
was born, then one could say - “everything has been achieved for me in the Spectrum” :)
Hello, Black_Cat
I understand you.
Every time my hands twitch to do something reasonable, eternal, good =)
You have to hit them :)
Hello Raider
Rai> I understand you.
Rai> my hands twitch every time to do something reasonable, eternal, good =)
Rai> You have to hit them :)
Everything is at a dead end for you, everything is going in the wrong direction.
Actually, Spectrum is a game. There will be a system, and Art Studio will be rewritten for it,
because for many people the computer has become their own and fans probably don’t consider it
clumsy. Maybe some people still find it a thrill to keep track of every byte in their
program, i.e. strive for speed with your head, not with your iron.
Then, for some reason, I ran into an ATM, ran into a cool computer, and also said that
respects.
:(
By the way, please note that people come to the forum, get acquainted with what they are doing here and
for some reason they always try to attach a Pentium processor or something else to the Spectrum
which is cooler. Then the wishes are smoothly transferred to the box with Pentium
reflash with Spectrum, install a modem, audio (no wishes about AGP yet
met you :)
You can stuff Speck into your mobile phone, but you’ll probably miss such a bandura,
which connects to a TV or monitor, huh?
:)
Hello, Raider
Rai> Nah!
Rai> We hate windoze and all windoze-alike :) Command line rulez!
Rai> TR-Dos uses command-line, and therefore rulez forever. :-)
Rai> ..Multitasking is designed for PC, where CPU is usually idling in
Rai> basic programs or message loops. Therefore, singletasking is rulez
Rai> forever. :-) Also, why it not Vista-looked? We wana Vista look!
Rai> :-)
Who's "we"?
Hello, Adramelek
Today i has downloaded AVI-file (about SymbOS). After the watching, the
question has come. How many Megahertz of that computer shown in video?
In Specy basically sound itrerrupts, when program loads a portion of data.
I think it's a PC emulation of Amstrad.
By the way. How CPU can play the moovieclip and play smusic without freezing?
Короче подкол это, даже ПЦ подтормаживал бы.
:)
Hello Vovoi
Vov> In short, this is a joke, even the PC would slow down.
So this is not what you thought - there is an Amstrad with a fast processor. go to
kokoinite site-museum, study the swearing part =)
And the PC slows down by definition ;)))
Hello Vovoi
Vovoi
running the teacher's yamaha - everything works fine
Hello, scooter_aka_ORB2007
sco> someone thinks that this is a toy (after talking to someone on ICQ).
sco> file for Spectrum which has a windows function, I realized that this is not
sco> some kind of entertainment and a natural program a la “several in one”
sco> for programmers and for the average person. as they say, read the file
sco> readme
Did you understand what you wrote? ;)
Windows v1.0 by Warlord'99.
ZX-Windows v1.6 by Nagval'2000, Inside'2001.
VRCP Windows v2.0 by C.Moscow'2001
Perhaps you meant something from this set?