Video Monster on V9990
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello, acidrain
aci> And when your device (game console) is ready, it will be
aci> commercial or frivolous?
aci>
It depends on: free time/availability of radioelements in stores and
CHRV/having money in your pocket/availability of mounting tools (soldering irons with thin
sting / hair dryers / ordering boards with a pitch of less than 0.4 at enterprises and households. from what else...)
So this year the Mega Machine will definitely not be ready :(
As for commercial or frivolous, it’s hard to say... it all depends on
circumstances, as well as from outside help. If the console is made purely by me and Co,
and no one else, then what’s the point of opening it to others who don’t do anything at all?
helped?
Hello, acidrain
aci> I can't wait for Ronin and CHV to do this miracle (EVA) for the spec.
aci>
So why are you interested in the console when you have Spec, all you need is
screw EVA to it?
To be more precise, I interact with the hardware people (CHRV/Ronin), they
the second to successfully launch a device on V9990 :)
Hello ASDT
ASD> By Video Monster, etc. extensions ...
ASD>
Monster - this does not mean a monstrous screwing of one thing to another, it’s just
name of the card showing the cool capabilities of the subject chip with CONVENIENT
ratio of chip price/chip capabilities/chip documentation/lightness
connecting the chip to an 8-bit data bus
ASD> What will we get using a modern processor in this architecture?
ASD> What if we “fasten” a super-mega video?
ASD> Everything is great! But what's left of the spec? ... :)
ASD>
Are you suggesting that we always use Spec's standard non-accelerated video mode(s)?
Which are suitable mainly for static graphics (Puzzles/Tetris, etc.)? And
sit with them all your life???
It wasn't about throwing out standard modes... It was about
ADDITIONAL hardware accelerator (sprat engine) for dynamic games!
Is it really so bad that Specky’s graphics reach at least SEGA’s level?
Genesis???
ASD> Actually, most of the proposals for “development” and
ASD> comes down to “screwing” a “microcomputer with Linux” to the spec
ASD> for "opening beer bottles" :)
ASD> No one is going to screw the assembled module onto, for example, a PCI or ISA bus
for PC... We are talking about creating from ZERO a video accelerator for Speck, specifically
tailored specifically for him!!!
There was no talk of any Linux/Windowsaf, etc.!
You just need to face progress and not your ass ;)
Hello Romanich
Rom> If the console is made purely by me and Co, and no one else, then what's the point
Rom> open it to others who didn’t help at all?
To help with software development.
Hello, captain cobalt
cap> To help with software development.
OK! At this stage it is worth telling what I am focusing on and why.
I’ll be happy to listen to any crazy ideas (within the framework of this topic, of course)
Read attachment:
File: MegaMachine.rar http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4087
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> In your opinion, “progress” is a label that just needs to be stuck on
Bla> to whatever it is and this should immediately become the goal of humanity.
Bla> Gas chambers with "Cyclone-B" are also progress, but what the heck
Bla> no one needs such “progress”. This is closer to the truth - others
Bla> computers - they are “Other computers”, but what does ZX have to do with it
Bla> section - I don’t understand :confused; .;
My friend, there's something I can't understand. If you don't like the topic, you don't have to
discuss! Or is this an indirect hint that what I wrote has no place here?
Admit it!...
There should also be a discussion of the V9990 and the possibility of using it on
Specs, including the example of my card and console - I HOPE! Instead of
This means YOU start quarrels and heated discussions that no one needs...
Hello ASDT
ASD> "We were talking about an ADDITIONAL hardware accelerator (sprat engine)
ASD> for dynamic games! Is it really so bad that Specky’s graphics last?
ASD> at least to the level of SEGA Genesis???"
ASD> That's what I'm talking about... You just need to add a modern one
ASD> processor,
ASD> fast bus... and we'll get an excellent gaming station!
ASD> And retro computers like speck are in the museum... :)
ASD>
ASD> "No one is going to screw the assembled module, for example, to PCI
ASD> or ISA bus for the PC ... "
ASD> Why are these interfaces not suitable for you? Full of ready-made devices...
I prefer to make something of my own from scratch, rather than delve into other people's muddy
streams of consciousness - study PCI, AGP, PCI Express and other monstrous PCs
garbage!!! Moreover, I will not receive honor and praise if I stick to someone who is not yet ready
something ready-made (irony: let’s finally assemble the PC, as they assemble it in
computer stores!!! - why the hell do we need this...)
Hello Romanich
Rom> There should also be a discussion of V9990 and its possibility
Rom> use on Specs
Someday there will be a spec on arma and with eva, then maybe there will be an old video mode
emulate directly through v9990 =) from the axis, tasis for example.
Hello Romanich
Rom> So why are you interested in the console when you have Spec, that's all
Rom> do I need to screw EVA to it?
How why? Isn’t it possible? =) And there is no live spec yet.
The console is interesting because I did something in this direction on mega8515.
And Ronin is already screwing it on, so I’m waiting for the results.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> This is closer to the truth - other computers - they are “Others
Bla> computers", but I don’t understand what the ZX section has to do with it.
Listen, why do you think that the Spectrum is its inherently poor screen?
Because Sinclair engineers were given the task of making it as cheap as possible
production. Then, by your logic, the keyboard cannot be improved either - 40 buttons
and wretched, like the original zx-16! There is no logic in your reasoning. You just sank
tooth - after all, they drove you out of the iron section with your philosophical theme, now you
are you taking revenge? =)
This section is 100% speckish!
Hello Romanich
Rom> you need to face progress and not your ass
In your opinion, “progress” is a label that just needs to be attached to anything
be that as it may, and this should immediately become the goal of humanity. Gas chambers with
"Cyclone-B" is also progress, but why does such "progress" matter to anyone?
needed.
aci> You will get a computer similar in terms of capabilities to the Amiga ECS!
Now this is closer to the truth - other computers - they are “Others”
computers", but what does the ZX section have to do with it - I don’t understand :confused; .;
Hello Romanich
I don't like Black_Cat either... :)
However..., like for him.
ATM - spec.compatible computer. and differs from the “clones” of the spec
the ability to switch to "not specified." mode.
I think the future lies with compatible ones, although clones will still live...
"why do you think that the Spectrum is its inherently poor screen?"
This is how it happened historically... Most domestic
"clones" supported this video mode.
2Romanich - I fully support your game console... Good luck!
However :) If we talk about more powerful processors. and video...
It would be nice to add the functions of a video and audio player, and many
format... It's long, but very interesting :)
"I prefer to make something of my own from scratch, rather than delve into other people's muddy
streams of consciousness"
Moreover... why this video chip? :)
"(irony: let's finally assemble the PC, as they assemble it in computer
stores!!! "
Why irony? That's what they do - VIA mini-ITX in an old case...
Hello Romanich
"We were talking about an ADDITIONAL hardware accelerator (sprat engine) for
dynamic games! Is it really so bad that Specky’s graphics would reach at least
SEGA Genesis level???"
That's what I'm talking about... You just need to add a modern processor,
fast bus... and get an excellent gaming station!
And retro computers like spec are in a museum... :)
"No one is going to screw an assembled module onto, for example, PCI or ISA
bus for PC..."
Why are these interfaces not suitable for you? Full of ready-made devices...
Hello, acidrain
aci> Someday there will be a spec on arma and with eva, then you can use the old one
aci> the video mode will be emulated directly through v9990 =) from the axis, tasis
aci> for example.
Will the new spec with Eva be on the workstation? That is, I understood correctly that as soon as Eve
they will do, they will make a new Spectrum car (concepts by Shiru Otaku, as he said
CHRV)?
Hello, acidrain
aci> the console is interesting because I did something in this on mega8515
aci> direction.
aci>
from this place in more detail, please!
Hello Mike
Allow me to comment on this specification from my own perspective:
Sound - YMF721+YAC516+Amplifier
This option is certainly interesting, but I would like to add another possibility
digital audio playback. Let's say via DMA, ideally. And in general
A DMA controller as a class would not hurt this device.
There will be no ROMs
Where will all kinds of firmware be stored? And the branded splash screen when turned on
device? What about a branded player, something like CDTV or CD32? Yes
midi files at least...
And another question: Will it be possible to connect any flash drive? CF or
SD at least, or better yet both... :)
Hello Romanich
So, for those who believe that everything different from 256X192 is not a spec:
Always, those who do something for any platform come up with something
new. This new thing sometimes becomes the standard forever, sometimes it dies and
is forgotten. At the time when the 3D accelerator market was emerging, each
the company came up with its own API, they produced a fair number of them: IrisGL, PowerVR, Glide,
Direct3D, OpenGL... This was all very new for the pussy. Certain
the proposed standards were supported by the majority, they have survived to this day and
have become an integral part of the modern system. Now the question is: was it possible
to say that a PC-compatible computer with a 3D accelerator is no longer a pussy, since
software written for this option will not work anywhere else? Or is it
is progress and whether to support it or not is a personal matter for each company? So here it is
the same thing with spec, certain ways to develop your beloved were proposed
platforms, Will the 9990 version or extended ATM modes be supported or
they won’t - it’s their own business, if there are many, then it will become new
standard.
In short, if you don’t like it, don’t eat it, but there’s no point in complaining about it. And then forever
There was already a sea of such people - “who needs it, and who doesn’t need it.”
Hello ASDT
ASD> major change
And no one is proposing any serious changes, Spectrum
The screen remains and doesn’t go anywhere! So this is an addition and not a change.
ASD> However, this is quite suitable for ATM devices.
ASD> That is. this will further isolate ATM from others
ASD> compatibles and clones ...
All the latest hardware is designed taking into account that they can be
Install on any Spectrum.
And I don’t understand ATM here either.
Hello ASDT
ASD> That is. this will further isolate ATM from others
ASD> compatibles and clones ...
Why is it emphasized that ZX software does not run on ATM?
What do you think needs to be done, produce 48specs?
Hello Romanich
"At the time when the 3D accelerator market was emerging, every office
came up with my own API,"
“So it’s the same with speck,”
Not at all :(
The formation of a market and its decline are completely different things.
In this case, any major change is extremely
little chance of support...
However, for ATM users this is quite suitable.
That is this will further isolate ATM from others
compatibles and clones...
Hello Romanich
“What do you think needs to be done, produce 48specs?”
Once I already offered to agree on the possibility of transferring
programs for 256k+...
For example, we modified trdos for ATM...
Here I found... "xBIOS ROM + VG93 emulator and TASiS OS"
How can these achievements be applied not to ATM?
Or adapt it to your needs?
I can understand the product support...
That's how it will be with 9990.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> And my opinion is that you can use it, but it won’t be Spec.
I translate, everything that was done not in accordance with the concepts of Mr. Cherkot -
then it is not a spec :v2_wink2; .; Quite a normal position.
Let's admit it: no one can define what spec is.
On my own behalf, I’ll add that NOT ONE Russian clone can be called a speck formally,
because it does not exactly repeat all the features of a real spec or at least Amstrad.
Hello, Black_Cat
To the great joy of ADST and Black Cat, I inform you that ATM has been discontinued, i.e.
will not be produced by me anymore :).
I hope you are satisfied!
The competitor has left the fuck out of the market where there is no money but a lot of balabols!
Hello ASDT
ASD> "What do you think needs to be done, produce 48 specs?"
ASD> Once I already suggested agreeing on the possibility of transfer
ASD> programs for 256k+ ...
You mean Scorpio??? i.e. Scorpio is the correct spec, but ATM is the wrong one :).
ASD> For example, we have modified trdos for ATM...
ASD> Here I found... "xBIOS ROM + VG93 emulator and TASiS OS"
ASD> How can these achievements be applied not to ATM?
ASD> Or adapt to your needs?
The answer is simple: they do not need to be used on anything other than ATM...
I will list the bonuses of other models - which are apparently also “separate” and no longer
specs according to your logic:
Scorpio - SMUC, GFX, shadow
KAY1024 - TRDOS electronic disk firmware
Pros - SR/M, text mods
Pentagon 512 and higher - GluckROM, ALCO video modes
Everything is expanded, this is for the convenience of working on a specific computer, if not
extensions on another computer is a problem for the person who produces this computer.
ASD> I can understand the product support...
ASD> That's how it will be with 9990.
Am I asking you to support ATM, on the contrary, it’s great that there are a lot of spec
programs, but it’s more convenient for me to work with them on ATM.
Moreover, it is impossible to support the development of the platform globally. Or are we sitting inwithin the framework of "ZX128" or we develop our specific clone in software and hardware, but not
towards loss of compatibility, and towards ease of operation and service. Nothing
The scary thing is that as a result of this work, an OS appeared, working with images from hard drive
and SD - does this make ATM users worse or more “incompatible”.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> No. I would be more pleased if ATM developed as Spec, and not in
Bla> towards ever greater incompatibility, especially since it is possible.
Bla> Nothing personal - “Socrates is my friend, but the truth is dearer..”
You just don’t smell the truth (just wait, I’ll respond to your mega-post). What
does this mean greater incompatibility? ANSWER? What, old people stop going to ATM?
programs? No. And if New programs do not work on simpler models, then this
not an indicator of incompatibility. Almost complete compatibility with accepted standards
CIS standards of the ZX platform remain unchanged. And if anyone is offended that
as a result of the development of the platform, new programs do not run on its old one
Pentagon+TR-DOS+AY, then these are his problems. And in general, try to prove that
everything you wrote here is the truth, and not just one of the concepts. Not
Is the conceit too great to try on Aristotle's toga? To my
the same look, everything that you wrote in “Chimera”, and where did you make yours from?
secondary conclusions - in itself, an attempt to analyze something,
interesting and, but in essence - from the point of view of truth, it is only yours
subjective point of view, the result is just a shock of air, but in practice
for manufacturers - no one really needs it. And this is not at all becauseATM mentioned there. Although it was interesting to read for fun. And if on
based on what was written, a discussion with far-reaching conclusions did not begin, why the hell not
I should have intervened at all.
> Someone simply doesn’t want to conduct an objective, reasoned investigation
> assessment of “what is Speck” and it’s clear why - there will be unfavorable conclusions
> ATM. And in muddy water, anything can be called Spec.
Yeah, but only recently I said that no one wants to denigrate ATM, etc., but here
he no longer baked at all. And I thought you believed... But in general, it was just for me
I'm interested in critical reviews of ATM. But this is by no means stupid criticism.
Hello ASDT
ASD> I can understand the product support...
ASD> That's how it will be with 9990.
Well, I don’t know, computers with their own non-repeatable (more precisely, non-reproducible on
other clones) with gadgets, and a piece of hardware screwed to any computer (without
massacre and meter mgtf) are still different things. From 9990 it’s somehow saved
"clone independence", just like with GS & DMA USC. And I don’t remember anything
Somebody “attacked” them about this ;)
Hello Romanich
Rom> My friend, I can’t understand one thing. If you don't like the topic
Rom> - you don’t have to discuss it! Or is this an indirect hint of what was written
Rom> I don't belong here? Confess!...
The topic is a topic, nothing against consoles. It’s not up to me to decide where she should be.
competence - let the moderators decide.
Rom> There should also be a discussion of V9990 and its possibility
Rom> use on Specks, including the example of my card and
Rom> consoles - I HOPE!
So the possibility of using it on Spec was all I had in mind. And my opinion is
You can use it, but it will no longer be Spec.
Rom> Instead, YOU start quarrels and heated discussions that are unnecessary
Rom> to no one...
I never allow myself to start quarrels, and I never allow myself to be insulted
You won’t find personalities anywhere in my posts, unlike some visitors.
this topic. I understand that when there are no arguments, insults are used, so
that on the subject of quarrels - this is not for me.
Hello, CHRV
CHR> Let's admit it: no one can define what a spec is.
Some people simply don’t want to make an objective, reasoned assessment of “what
there is Speck" and it’s clear why - there will be conclusions not in favor of ATM. And in the muddy water
Anything can be called a spec.
CHR> NOT ONE Russian clone can be called a speck formally, because
CHR> does not exactly replicate all the features of a real spec or at least Amstrad.
All domestic clones are hardware emulators, this has been known since their
occurrence and this has never been an obstacle to the development of Speck.
The statement that a clone does not exactly replicate the original is not
Speck is pure demagogy with the goal of creating a smoke screen for
covering up ATM incompatibility.
Hello, CHRV
CHR> I hope you are satisfied!
No. I would be more pleased if ATM developed like Spec, and not aside everything
greater incompatibility, especially since it is possible. Nothing personal - "Socrates"
I am a friend, but the truth is dearer.."
Hello, CHRV
CHR> To the great joy of ADST and Black Cat, I inform you that ATM has been removed
CHR> production, i.e. will not be produced by me anymore :).
CHR>
CHR> I hope you are satisfied!
CHR>
CHR> The competitor has left the market where there is no money but a lot of balabols!
But now we can wait for ZX<>VGA and Turbo 3?
Hello Romanich
“You mean Scorpio??? i.e. Scorpio” I’m really tired of it...
I have my own clone! Unique! In 1 copy. Stalingrad-1 :)
“I’ll list the bonuses of other models - which apparently are also “separate” and no longer
specs according to your logic:"
Don't confuse me with a kashara...
I am for software that somehow allows adaptation to any feature.
This will allow you to summarize the optimal solutions.
"The answer is simple: they do not need to be used on anything other than ATM..."
"we are developing our specific clone in software and hardware,"
“Does this make ATM users worse or more “incompatible”?”
Gee-gee-gee... It's like you're competing in the market
with other manufacturers :) So I’ll reveal a terrible secret...
There are no competitors, there is no market and there is no money here :)
Hello Mike
Mik> At the time when the market for 3D accelerators was formed, each
Mik> the company came up with its own API, they produced a fair number of them: IrisGL,
Mik> PowerVR, Glide, Direct3D, OpenGL...
Mik>
It's funny ;) I used to program 3Dfx cards under DOS!
Not under Glide, but at the register level :cool:
Hello Mike
Mik> Sound - YMF721+YAC516+Amplifier
Mik>
Mik> This option is certainly interesting, but I would like to add more, somehow
Mik> ability to play digital audio. Let's say via DMA in
Mik> ideal. And in general, the DMA controller as a class did not interfere with this device
Mik> would.
Mik>
The YM2612(8bit DAC) has digital sound. In addition - there will be a standard tire -
You can hang anything you want - including the mentioned chip :)
There will be no DMA - due to my lack of mikruhi as such :(
Mik> There will be no ROMs
Mik>
Mik> And where will all kinds of firmware be stored? And the branded splash screen
Mik> turning on the device?
Mik>
MegaMachine.rar (see earlier posts) says that the programs are stored in SRAM,
powered from the source constantly! The reasons for this choice are there!
Mik> And what about a branded player, like a CDTV or CD32? Yes
Mik> midi files at least...
Mik>
Why are interrupt-based MIDI/Adlib players bad for you?
Mik> And another question: Will there be any possibility of connectingMik> flash drives? CF or SD at least, or better yet both... :)
Mik>
Most likely not. I don't see the point. All firmware is uploaded by the programmer using
LPT port - in SRAM.
And one more thing - software development tools will be on the PC
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Motherboards still have both LPT and COM, but laptops probably don’t have them
Bla> this, but mainly to save space. But USB->COM converters
Bla> cost pennies. So, a device with a COM port can be connected anywhere
Bla> whatever, although it will be slower.
There are already quite a few mothers who do not have LPT. There are converters, and in this case they are
applicable. But COM is too slow. It is in this case that it is better to attach
USB. It would be better to attach a flash drive, since this is the easiest way. Ideally it would be
making a device from a CD and making toys on it is quite logical. Drivers
CDs for the spec were written a long time ago, an IDE for the spec is not a problem. So - CD + CF
on the face - not a complicated and rational option. This is not instead of the option with
SRAM, in addition to it.
Hello Romanich
Rom> There will be no DMA - due to my lack of mikruhi as such :(
Rom>
Or maybe assemble it into an FPGA?
Rom> Why are MIDI/Adlib players that operate by interruption bad for you?
Rom>
What do you mean? Like listening to the PC? So I’m talking about this device, or even playing
It’s also possible at the PC...
Rom> Most likely not. I don't see the point. All firmware are uploaded
Rom> programmer via LPT port - to SRAM.
Rom> And one more thing - software development tools will be on the PC
Well, with development tools, this is understandable. And via LPT... Maybe USB then
attach? Otherwise, modern mothers do not always have LPT.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Funny ;) I used to program 3Dfx cards under DOS!
Rom> Not under Glide, but at the register level :cool;
Yes; you're cool! :v2_thumb;
I; I know three softwares under the dos that use voodoo - GTA, Carmageddon (with
addition) and demo "Nature". I once had 486-100Mhz with Voodoo 2 12Mb.
:)
Hello Mike
Mik> modern mothers do not always have LPT.
Motherboards still have LPT and COM, but laptops probably don’t have this anymore, but in
mainly to save space. But USB->COM converters cost pennies. So what?
a device with a COM port can be connected anywhere, although it will be slower.
Hello Romanich
Questions for forum participants:
1) I read somewhere that the Z80 supports port addresses 0x00..0xFF. Is this true?
After all, the address bus is 16-bit - in theory it should. 0x0000..0xFFFF
2) Will the Z80 handle 20 megahertz at the same time:
a) Game logic
b) V9990 sprite management
c) Background music (interrupted) + special effects (occasional)?
More about the MegaMachine - read the attachment here ;)
File: MegaMachine2.rar http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4099
Hello Mike
Mik> You're cool! :v2_thumb;
Mik>;
Mik> I know three softwares under DOS that use voodoo - GTA, Carmageddon
Mik> (with addition) and demo "Nature". I once had 486-100Mhz s
Mik> Voodoo 2 12Mb. :)
In order to use 3DFx acceleration, you need to have:
1) datasheets by registers
2) programming examples
Honestly, the 3Dfx software model of the axel is beautiful! Unlike
nVidia's - there is complete confusion there! Also applies to cards: Matrox, S3, ALI
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> So, a device with a COM port can be connected anywhere, although
Bla> will be slower.
That's the thing, it's slow! It's easier to do everything through LPT.
Even without any microllers! How do you like the “programmer” that is assembled on
latch registers ;) 3 registers store 8-bit parts of the address (A0..A23), data
go directly when registers are locked :) ???
Hello Romanich
Rom> To my great shame, I did not study programmable matrices :(
I think there are quite a few people here who will help. After all, Roman was doing this, and he
I'm also interested in 9990, so I hope it helps. By the way, these also relate to the question of
speed of the Z80 and besides, a DMA controller would greatly help here.
Rom> No, that’s not it. I meant that registers are updated by interruption.
Rom> Thus, synchronization using YMF721 timers is possible - they are
Rom> will call IRQ (for Z80 - NMI/INT)
No, I’m not talking about that, but about a branded player in ROM that will play
MIDI files and others that can. As an AudioCD player in ROM Amiga CDTV and CD32.
Rom> What about FT245? ;) Via USB emulates LPT! LPT is programmable
Rom> is very easy, unlike USB.
So, solder it onto the board, it’s obviously not expensive. Although in principle it is possible
it is LPT that should be left, for reasons of LPT itself, for the possibility
connecting a printer, scanner, connecting two such computers, etc.
Hello Mike
Mik> Or maybe assemble it into an FPGA?
Mik>
To my great shame, I did not study programmable matrices :(
Due to high cost, lack of information, etc. That is, these are not such open things,
like AVR,68k,Z80,PIC,8051 etc...
Mik> What do you mean? Like listening to the PC? So I’m talking about this device, or else
Mik> and you can also play on the PC...
Mik>
No, not that. I meant that the registers are updated by interruption.
Thus, synchronization using YMF721 timers is possible - they will call
IRQ (for Z80 - NMI/INT)
Mik> Well, with development tools, this is understandable. And via LPT... Maybe USB
Mik> then attach it? Otherwise, modern mothers already have LPT far from
Mik> always.
Mik>
What about FT245? ;) Via USB emulates LPT! LPT is very programmable
easy, unlike USB.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Questions for forum participants:
Rom>
Rom> 1) I read somewhere that the Z80 supports port addresses 0x00..0xFF. True
Rom> is this?
Rom> After all, the address bus is 16-bit - in theory it should. 0x0000..0xFFFF
Rom>
You confused it a little with the i8080 - the Z80 has a total space of 65536 ports and not
256.
Rom> 2) Will the Z80 handle 20 megahertz at the same time:
Rom> a) Game logic
Rom> b) Managing V9990 sprites
Rom> c) Background music (interrupted) + special effects (occasional)?
Rom>
With the quality of the code as in MSX toys, I think 99% of all will be repeated
toys on SNES, SEGA-MD, AMIGA, ATARI ST.
But in addition to the speed of the processor, you need memory from 1 to 16Mb for such graphics. Except
In addition, the set-top box will be “crippled” without DMA that can transfer graphics to
V9990 itself at the highest possible speed.
Hello Mike
Mik> Didn't you go too far, with the Amiga? The Amiga is FULL of toys for AGA, no
Mik> rarely also require a minimum of 68020, or even 68030. I don’t take those
Mik> who want a full-fledged 3D video and 68060, or even PPC. Here already
Mik> Z80-21Mhz with 9990 it won’t even be serious.
I didn't give it 100%. If you sum up all the toys for these platforms, then there is 1%
maybe there will be such. (Which is barely slowing down on ppc601-200mhz+voodoo3
tossing and porting from opengl like ShogoMAD).
Hello, bigral
big> With such code quality as in MSX toys, I think I can repeat it
big> will be 99% of all toys on SNES, SEGA-MD, AMIGA, ATARI ST.
big>
You didn’t go too far, with the Amiga? The Amiga is FULL of toys for AGA, and often
requiring at least 68020, or even 68030. I don’t take those who want
a full-fledged 3D video camera and 68060, or even PPC. Here it will already be Z80-21Mhz with 9990
not even serious.
Hello, bigral
big> I didn't give it 100%. If we sum up all the toys for these platforms then
big> there may be 1% of them. (Which is barely wildly braking on
big> ppc601-200mhz+voodoo3 tossing and ported from opengl type
big> ShogoMAD).
It seems that you are not very familiar with Amiga. This is not 1%, this is the majority
toys that appeared after the release of AGA machines. I repeat again - I don’t take it
games on PPC with Voodoo, which do not toss and turn, but work perfectly and
fly, for those, of course, whose hands grow where they need to and who are able
rebuild the system, so there is no need to flog nonsense. And by the way, absolute
Most PPC axels on Amiga are PPC603 and PPC604. I mean at least those
games that use 320X200 256 colors, or even 640X512.
Hello Romanich
Rom> More about the MegaMachine - read the attachment here
Such energy and for peaceful purposes :D (mixed with ZX purposes ;) )
Rom> 2) Will the Z80 handle 20 megahertz at the same time:
Rom> a) Game logic
Rom> b) Managing V9990 sprites
Rom> c) Background music (interrupted) + special effects (occasional)?
MSX pulls. I’m not sure about the special effects, unless of course it’s very pop.
. By the way, the sprinter has a cool covox, with memory and a counter, IMHO this is
the best option for rare special effects.
Hello, bigral
big> But in addition to the speed of the processor, you need memory from 1 to 16Mb for something like this
big> graphics. In addition, the set-top box will be "crippled" without DMA which can
big> transfer graphics to the V9990 itself at the highest possible speed.
The sprites will be transferred at the moment of initialization!!!
Therefore, the transfer speed is not important here. We are talking about changing attributes
sprite. Therefore, DMA is not needed here...
Hello Romanich
Rom> Sprites will be transferred at the moment of initialization !!!
Rom> Therefore, the transfer speed is not important here.
Rom>
You're partly right. When the video memory is initialized by the processor, the speed is not particularly
needed. Because This is not the dynamic part of the game.
But if you do not provide for the possibility of copying video data through DMA, then
in the dynamic part of the game, we get that the graphics for the game level should
be no larger than the video memory size v9990
(i.e. 512KB).
In the same Sega, 64KB of video memory. But using DMA copying, the game can
update video memory from a larger cartridge.
This is done in the dynamic part of the game (i.e. in real time). Video memory
Available for recording in horizontal and vertical beam retracement.
Think about whether something like this should be done in VideoMonster.
Hello Mike
Mik> Here already Z80-21Mhz with 9990 it won’t even be serious.
Mik>
I can’t understand where the number 21 always comes from
at the clock speed of the Z80?
Did I understand correctly that the 20 MHz Z80 only goes up to 21?
Hello Romanich
Rom> I can’t understand where the number 21 constantly comes from
Rom> at Z80 clock speed?
Rom> Did I understand correctly that the 20 MHz Z80 only goes up to 21?
Because for the spec it is important that the processor frequency be a multiple of 3.5 MHz.
Hello Valen
Val> In the same Sega, 64KB of video memory. But using DMA copying, the game can
Val> update video memory from a larger cartridge.
Val> This is done in the dynamic part of the game (i.e. in real time).
Val> Video memory is available for recording in horizontal and vertical
Val> reverse beam path.
Val>
Val> Think about whether this should be done in VideoMonster.
Val>
There is no DMA in the MSX card (at least I didn't notice it)
Hello Valen
Val> In the same Sega, 64KB of video memory. But using DMA copying, the game can
Val> update video memory from a larger cartridge.
Val>
I just can’t understand one thing - how can you control sprites, and even with the help
DMA??? This is as far as the logic of the program goes. complicated!!!
Hello Romanich
Roma, I just saw you post your penultimate (already) message!!!
I sent you a letter - please take a look!
Hello Mike
Mik> As far as I remember, it is just 21Mhz. I remember this on the sprinter
Mik> stood. If I'm not confusing anything. Is there a higher frequency Z80?
I don't know! I took the Z80 at 20 MHz from Roma. There is a Z80 variant on FPGAs
300MHz! But somehow I am a supporter of strict logic with all that follows from this
consequences...
Hello Romanich
Rom> I can’t understand where the number 21 constantly comes from
Rom> at Z80 clock speed?
Rom> Did I understand correctly that the 20 MHz Z80 only goes up to 21?
As far as I remember, it is just 21Mhz. I remember there was one like this on the sprinter. If
I'm not confusing anything. Is there a higher frequency Z80?
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Valid if port compatibility with is not provided
Bla> ZX, then the eZ80 is an ideal replacement for the Z80. Prots is simply cool. Caro wanted
Bla> develop the ZX line using the eZ80, and there’s a hundred on the forum
Bla> once all the pros and cons were discussed (for your task of cons
Bla> no).
Let's not scatter, philatelists. We were talking about the Z180.
Hello Mike
Mik> Yes?... And people said something that they are not compatible... Well then
Mik> naturally the Z180 should be installed, there’s nothing to discuss here. Or Z380.
People were talking about internal ports, which on the Z180, fortunately, can be moved to
an area unused by Spectrum. And so the usual CMOS core + MMU from HD64180.
Hello, Black_Cat
Rom> I just can’t understand one thing - how can you steer sprites, and even with
Rom> using DMA??? This is as far as the logic of the program goes. complicated!!!
Rom>
Difficulty is very relative.
Here's a simplified example.
You need to make a horizontal scroll of the level to the right, and the number
graphics of this level are significantly larger than the size of video memory
v9990.
You can shift the level and simultaneously copy new ones via DMA
data for the vertical column of patterns that appears
right.
The new data is the graphics themselves + a column of pattern numbers.
It turns out something like an “endless” scroll. And in every
moment in time, the video memory contains only those needed at the moment, for
level display, data.
All this makes sense only if you have a voluminous graphics storage (Sega
this is a cartridge), from where the DMA can pump data into video memory.
Hello icebear
ice> We were talking about the Z180.
In relation to the console and eZ80 it would be worth considering, here the ZX ports seem to be for nothing
are not needed, and in terms of capabilities the eZ80 may well be better than the Z180. What if
coordinate actions with Caro, then it’s quite possible to start a new platform
if there is consensus.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> In relation to the console and eZ80 we should consider, here are ZX ports
Bla> seems to be unnecessary, but in terms of capabilities the eZ80 may well be
Bla> is better than Z180. And if you coordinate actions with Caro, then quite
Bla> it is possible to stir up a new platform if there is consensus.
The EZ80 is very sophisticated and focused on network applications...
MC68k is much more convenient in terms of game consoles
Hello, bigral
big> As soon as I understood the memory inside the v9990 itself means that
big> "QUICKLY" replace the contents of memory (maybe even during reverse
big> beam path) you need to transfer this graphics into it. (If he
big> external memory could be used, it could be directly from the cartridge
big> show on the screen without any transfer.) And this is suspicious that
big> there is no DMA for this. What are the reasons for this?
big>
big> My versions:
big> 1. The maximum transfer speed with v9990 is so slow that Z80
big> can be done easily and installing DMA will essentially do nothing; (most
big> sad case).
big>
big> 2. It’s not so easy to fit DMA into the MSX architecture, complications with software and
big> iron; (no hindrance to us).
big>
big> 3. DMA on the card itself is not needed since it is on the motherboard
big> board;
Sprite attributes are described in only 4 bytes, there are 125 sprites - maximum in total
Send 500 bytes to VDP (during the reverse stroke of the beam, it’s better to interrupt...) -can't Z80@20MHz handle it???
Hello Valen
Val> All this makes sense only if you have a large graphics storage
Val> (for Sega this is a cartridge), from where DMA can pump data to
Val> video memory.
I don’t know... I’m somehow considering this option - when loading the next level
games, sprites belonging only to the current level are loaded into VRAM VDP (512kB -
a lot). Further work is carried out with them. When the level changes, they change themselves
sprites (patterns). This was done on the NES consoles.
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> Such an FPGA will probably be a bit expensive for a console, but for cheap ones either
Bla> you won’t get such frequencies, or they are in the wrong cases, for ZX this is already
Bla> seemed to be discussed. You just need to decide on an ideology for ZX
Bla> for example, FPGA is in many ways the only way out when scaling
Bla> performance.
Bla>
If I immediately bother with FPGAs, then MegaMachine will not be born on
light for another year or two. Therefore, we are considering the hard-core processors...
A decent ALTERA PLUS with memory costs about 3000 rubles... - that’s another reason
reluctance while fiddling with them!
Hello Mike
Mik> Or maybe this one is better? A large FPGA, this Z80, DMA, etc.
By the way, regarding DMA... The V9990 has Blitter (for 2D acceleration in Bitmap mode).
There is a command for linear copying from the source address to the destination address -
who knows, maybe it will help when copying memory areas in Sprite modes
;) I'll try it in my spare time and write the result...
Hello, bigral
big> How quickly did I understand the memory inside the v9990 itself...
big>
I don't want to seem rude, but... gentlemen! Read the datasheet more carefully (if
The topic is interesting)! The memory of the subject's VDP is external: v2_jawdr:
Hello Mike
Mik> Didn't you go too far, with the Amiga? The Amiga is FULL of toys for AGA, no
Mik> rarely also require a minimum of 68020, or even 68030. I don’t take those
Mik> who want a full-fledged 3D video and 68060, or even PPC. Here already
Mik> Z80-21Mhz with 9990 it won’t even be serious.
big> I didn't give it 100%. If we sum up all the toys for these platforms then
big> there may be 1% of them. (Which is barely wildly braking on
big> ppc601-200mhz+voodoo3 tossing and ported from opengl type
big> ShogoMAD).
Mik> It seems that you are not very familiar with the Amiga. This is far from 1%, this
Mik> most of the toys that appeared after the release of AGA machines.
Mik> I repeat again - I don’t buy games on PPC with Voodoo that are not available
Mik> they toss and turn, but they work and fly perfectly, for those, of course,
Mik> hands grow from where it is necessary and who is able to rebuild the system, so
Mik> no need to flog nonsense. And by the way, the vast majority of PPC axels on
Mik> Amiga is PPC603 and PPC604. I mean at least those games thatMik> use 320X200 256 colors, or even 640X512.
big> Give me a list with the names of those games for which the V9990 is not enough.
Why, AGA, take any toy (Amiga and SNES), wherever
background layers numbering more than two are scrolled - the V9990 will immediately sit on the... Not really
I’m talking about all sorts of effects that are demanding on the main processor like
translucency, etc.
Well, I just don’t like “far away” (specifically in relation to Speck),
even (especially!) after a detailed acquaintance with the docks. Just some kind of dump
tricky video modes...
Well, yes, they added sprites - but the crap with line restrictions remained, and also
priority by number is determined. Still, 16x16x125 is not so much, especially
Considering that all animation phases must fit into this number, otherwise “four
You can't get away with "descriptor bytes" on a sprite. Yes, and you don’t need sprites for
speeds in modern conditions - icebear, remember, we calculated the speeds
for different implementations of the blitter (on 28MHz SRAM)? - such a volume is possible
controllably pump in 2000-4500 spec cycles (that is, even two screens
no need, you can “on the border” have time to erase and redraw). :) Yep, in V9990
There is also a blitter, but with 120ns memory it’s somehow not impressive. Here with flowers in
APA seems to be all right - but after looking at the description of these BYJK/BYUV modes,I felt sorry for whoever would code in them.
IMHO the device is suitable for a set-top box, because it differs from a computer in that
the user is expected to only consume ready-made software, and not everything that we have
do with Spec. :) True, the man decided to sculpt an amateur radio, and not
commercial (eses-but) set-top box. What kind of animal is this - I can imagine
difficult. :v2_huh:
Hello Romanich
Rom> Partially agree... This concerns Bitmap Modes. I wonder why
Rom> modes with a color depth of 16bpp and 8bpp were added when the speed
The Rom> of the blitter depends inversely on the square of the area of the blitted image and
Rom> depends linearly on the chapter. colors? For beauty or something???
Rom>
Well, for static screensavers, backgrounds for menus, an epilogue there and all that.
Hello Romanich
in addition:
Video - V9990,4*VRAM,CXA1145,032 - 7 more micros
Sound - YMF721,YAC516,Dual OP AMP, 245 - 4 mikruhi
Joystick - 244 - 1 micro
in total, taking into account the previous post, 18 mikruh ;)
Hello Romanich
The memory module is ready!
Double-sided installation with vias (connected layers with wire),
the paths are covered with a thin layer of tin (no Woods and Roses with glycerin - IMHO
Otherwise, it will also fade over time...)
Photos from both sides:
Picture: Top.jpg Picture: Bottom.jpg
Next on the plan is a programmer (on Octal Latch)...
And writing software for DOS/Win9x to read/write from/to a memory module
I hope at least someone is interested! :)
File: Top.jpg http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4273
File: Bottom.jpg http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4274
Hello Romanich
I split the board into a cartridge! If I have time on the weekend, I'll solder it :)
Here is the cartridge diagram:
File: MegaCartridge.rar http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4272
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> If you are planning such a connector for a series, there will be hesitation. Such connectors
Bla> are not designed for a large number of insertion cycles - mother
Bla> is gouged. Better use a bladed double-sided printed connector
Bla> i.e. on a printed circuit board (like on 5.25" flops, you can also use them
Bla> take the female connector itself if you wish).
Yes, in fact, just like all the dandies with segami did all their lives.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Memory module is ready!
If you are planning such a connector for a series, there will be hesitation. Such connectors are large
the number of insertion cycles is not calculated - the mother will get overwhelmed. Better use it
blade double-sided printed connector, i.e. on a printed circuit board (like on
5.25" flops, you can also take the female connector from them if you wish).
Hello Romanich
Rom> I don’t have such connectors!
They are sold everywhere, in extreme cases, cut them off from the old flop cable (34pin
5.25"), you just have to solder the flat cable itself, or the ISA was cut into
pieces, if not in the store.
Hello, The Exploited
Wikipedia-like had this to say:
Mode 1. Can be enabled by the IM 1 instruction. The interrupt is entered by
fixed entry point 38h, in this it is similar to mode 0, with the condition of issuing
to the FFh code bus by an external device. The mode can be used in systems
where definition of the interrupt vector is not needed or the external device cannot do it
issue.
Question: is it necessary to issue code 0xFF on the bus or not? For me it's
fundamentally, since it is undesirable to fence in “extra logic”
Hello Romanich
Rom> "Reading" is swapping...
Rom>
Hello, what kind of swapping is this? Swapping is virtual memory, i.e. RAM
located on disk media and being an extension of the main RAM. A
What we are talking about is simply loading the required objects.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Question: is it necessary to issue code 0xFF to the bus or not? For me
Rom> this is important, since it is undesirable to fence in “extra logic”
no, not necessary
Hello Mike
Mik> Hello, what kind of swapping is this? Swapping is virtual memory
Mik> i.e. RAM is located on disk media and is
Mik> by expanding the main RAM. And what we are talking about is simple
Mik> loading of required objects.
Of course, I understand that it’s easy to show off your knowledge and find fault with terms and
meanings of words, but that is not the goal! The goal is to really sort out the misunderstandings,
which arise in the process of MegaMachineBuilding...
The question about XTAL and RC chain remains valid :)
Hello Valen
Val> I don’t understand what the “swap” is for here. I'm just talking about opportunity
Val> programs on z80, read data from flash.
Val>
“To calculate” is swapping...
Val> v9990 will be better than Sega's VDP.
Val> Therefore, masterpieces should look cooler.
Val>
How can I say... Seg's VDP is not so backward compared to the V9990
Val> Look at the professional IAR C.
Val> It gives very good results.
Val>
Link to the full version for Z80 in the studio :)
Val> And then the 512KB limit per game will be lifted.
Val> (Game data will be limited by flash storage capacity)
Val>
For me personally, 128kB is enough ;)
Val> IMHO, do as is done, but leave room for improvement.
Val>
MMC Flash will also be flashed with PC software.
There are MegaBUS slots for improvement
Hello Romanich
Rom> I certainly understand that it’s easy to show off your knowledge and find fault with
Rom> terms and meanings of words, but that is not the goal!
The fact is that due to incorrectly applied terms,
misunderstandings, which are then smoothly transferred to “Flame” :)
Hello Romanich
Rom> Link to the full version for Z80 in the studio :)
Rom>
I don't have such a link.
Search file sharing networks.
Rom> Personally, 128kB is enough for me ;)
Rom>
Well, if you are making a subject for yourself personally,
then do as you please.
That was all there was to it, make a bidirectional channel
between z80 and MK.
Hello Romanich
Let's leave this topic to discuss subject VDP from Spectrum's perspective.
Everything about the MegaMachine itself is now here:
http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?p=69707#post69707
Hello Valen
Val> Well, if you are making a subject for yourself personally,
Val> then do as you please.
Val>
Val> All that was necessary was to create a bidirectional channel
Val> between z80 and MK.
If AVRs supported external code memory, I wouldn’t bother with the Z80! A
To test the bytecode with my knowledge, to be honest, it’s a little difficult :frown; -;
I have no experience writing my own languages (virtual machines)