Tips for beginners
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello, All
Hello! I am a beginner Spectrumist, so to speak, I decided
build a Pentagon-1024SL, but there are a lot of questions and few answers.
I live in a “district town” :-), in Sevastopol, and it’s difficult to get everything here
(computer hardware, parts). And in the Pentagon there is a 1MB SIMM, I searched all over
city, all the computer store salespeople make big eyes and say: “We
We don’t sell stuff like that,” a nightmare in one word... But I did find it - two modules of 512Kb each,
attention, now the question is - is it possible to install two modules, maybe in parallel?
somehow? And yet, they are not like that, there is a photo in the attachment,
Please take a look and reply to the e-mail if it doesn't bother you.
In general, I suggest not closing this topic or ignoring it because you don’t
Believe me, there are also beginners who are simply embarrassed to ask, sometimes
really hot topic, for fear of being ignored or
moderated. Support youth.
Best regards, Alexey.
File: simm.rar http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=1918
Hello, Alexey
Dear Alexey, no one will close this topic, and certainly not someone
. Rather, those who show arrogance towards newcomers
don't fit into our club. However, this is practically not observed here. Although
can be ignored. But this is more likely from ignorance or laziness.
Now specifically regarding your question.
There is no photo in the attachment yet (although the title would be enough). From
For general reasons, modules can be parallelized. We'll have to improve the decryption:
split CAS signals (pin 2 SIMM). Unfortunately, such reliability improvements are not
will add.
There are developer contacts on the forum
["http://zx.pk.ru/showpost.php?p=16973&postcount=1"] Pentagon-1024SL, at
whom you can consult.
In addition (if I'm not mistaken) Roman Chunin (CHRV) had megabyte modules.
Hello Conan
Thank you for your support and understanding!
As for the attachment, when trying to upload it to the site it was said, I quote -
"The file is too large. The size limit for this file type is 19.5
KB. Your file size is 62.2 KB." (GIF picture), so I RARed it
I squeezed it a little, the size did not change, but I managed to upload it.
I apologize for the disgusting quality of the picture, I took the picture with my cell phone...
The name of the module, as I understand it, is OKI-2305A, most likely from the printer in them
SIMMs are also sometimes used.
In general, what memory is better to use as an alternative to SIMM?
Hello, Alexey
try looking for a SIM with 72 pins and 8 chips 16 m (2 chips
replace the SIM) and you will have 4 M memory
Hello, CHRV
Yes, I wasn’t talking about sales when I asked about SMD, and certainly not about launching
series. As for the cost of production, it turns out expensive if you order
PP at the factory (and even then, hardly, if in large quantities), and SMDs are quite expensive
a little more expensive (or even cheaper than their DIP counterparts). By the way, we have imported
SMD logic is sometimes cheaper than its domestic DIP analogues (although we have
Russian microcircuits are also imported). For example, KR1533IR23 costs
approximately 1.30 UAH. (0.25 USD), and its counterpart from Texas in SMD (SOL20)
performance - 0.75 UAH. (0.14 USD). Such are the things.
Hello, Alexey
Ale> Thanks for the valuable advice! I somehow didn’t think about the 386 cars.
Ale> I bought a 386 laptop for 20 USD. :-)) Now the problem is the case, the keyboard
Ale> and LCD panels are solved.
Ale>
but neither the first nor the second nor the third will practically fit or you need quite a lot
suffer :) given the problem of finding 1MB of sim, I think I’ll post such an adaptation
unreal...
you need to drag a regular 386 - and the case with the power supply will come in handy, and the EGA monitor at the same time
try to get it there. and 1mb sims shouldn't cost more than $1...
Hello, Alexey
Ale> The question arose: has anyone tried to assemble ZX on SMD components? Ha
Ale> in my opinion, this is a very promising solution. Possible on one PP
Ale> place all devices: IDE controller, VGA controller e. t. c.
A couple of years ago I had the same opinion on the problem of assembling the Spectrum.
Unfortunately, although this is a beautiful solution, there is some savings on
production of printed circuit boards, but it is not affected by the difficulty of assembly - it may
I don’t have the patience to install 10-20 buildings. On the other hand, in this case
A protective mask (brilliant green) becomes almost mandatory, and this
additional costs in the production of printed circuit boards.
In the entire history of the Spectrum, only one case of its assembly on
small-package microcircuits. It was a clone of Leningrad-1, on KM555. It's not really
SO (SMD) body, but very close to a first approximation. Economic
the expediency of this decision raises great doubts among many (rather
In all, this was an effective way to use non-lequids). More details
can be read in the topic "List of domestic Speccy hardware".
However, the combined use of FPGAs, microcontrollers and SMDs is,
IMHO, the most correct solution when designing electronic equipment.It makes more sense to use FPGAs. But this solution also has a different ending.
These are programmable microcircuits, and although a programmer for these microcircuits
quite simple, for many this turns out to be an insurmountable obstacle (rather
just psychological). In addition, specialists in the field of programmable
Digital circuitry is quite rare.
CHR> Even topics like “Smook on discretes” says what the real one dreams of
CHR> spektrumist.
Is it not entirely clear whether this is approval or reproach? SMUC on discretes is a solution for those
who wants to have a device, but due to the impossibility of buying it, finds himself in
in a state of choice between Nemo-IDE and nothing at all :( Because
I don’t see its production on FPGA as promising yet
apply the classic method - everyone can repeat it if desired.
Hello spensor
I once had a Lviv board "Moscow 48" on planar K133
series
Hello spensor
spe> However, the combined use of FPGAs, microcontrollers and
spe> SMD is, IMHO, the most correct design solution
spe> electronic equipment.
spe> It is more appropriate to use FPGAs. But this solution also has
spe> other end. These are programmable microcircuits, and although the programmer
spe> for these microcircuits is quite simple, for many it turns out
spe> an insurmountable obstacle (most likely psychological). In addition
spe> specialists in the field of programmable digital circuit technology
spe> are quite rare.
In the next issue (autumn) of NedoPC there will be my article explaining step by step how
work with Plis, with a programmer circuit and an example program...
Hello, CHRV
CHR> In the next issue (autumn) of NedoPC there will be my article step by step
CHR> explains how to work with Plis, with a programmer circuit and an example
CHR> programs...
But this is good news! How can I subscribe or purchase, or, in general,
how can I get this wonderful magazine? And then, unfortunately, the information
there is little of this kind, or most of it is in the language of Shakespeare, and time, like
It's always not enough to translate. There would be more such thematic articles.
Question: where can I download or otherwise get the KAY, Scropion e.
t. c., to familiarize yourself with the typical circuitry of this type of machine? The other day
I downloaded a couple of such diagrams, but, alas, the quality of the scanned material was not good
height, half of it is absolutely impossible to make out...
Thanks in advance, best wishes, Alexey.
Hello icebear
ice> By the way, advice to programmers (especially applied ones, system engineers will be
ice> simpler): forget everything they knew about programming, if any
ice> write in VHDL.
Yes, I've heard a lot about VHDL, although I haven't worked with it. Wherever
familiarize yourself with the language (something like a textbook, like "C++ for dummies") and what software
For comfortable work with VHDL, do you recommend?
Hello, CHRV
CHR> In the next issue (autumn) of NedoPC
Is this number 3? I'll buy it. =) Maybe you can make a newsletter and report on
release and announcements of the next issues? Well, as they usually do ;)
Hello jdigreze
jdi> I agree. The question can be characterized as follows: are you ready to buy?
jdi> new Spectrum (RAM-1Mb,CPU-10MHz,HDD-40Mb,17"TFT,SOUND,KEY,MOUSE) by
jdi> price of 30,000 rubles? Surely the answer is NO! After all, for that kind of money
jdi> you can take PIV-3GHz/512RAM/120HDD/DVD+-RW... But production, according to
jdi> SMD technology, which requires approximately the same
jdi> funds, and pays for itself when selling tens of thousands of copies.
jdi> But we have a bunch of old, but still functional JUNK in DIP
jdi> cases that can be used with a 100W soldering iron, if desired...
jdi> I am “for” SMD, PLD... “For”, for one simple reason - I like it!
jdi> I have 2 PCs at home, a dedicated one and other delights of life, but why
jdi> am I going back to Spectrum? Because I can do everything as I want
jdi> to me, rather than relying on a bunch of RFCs to make it work
jdi> of your creations...
jdi> PS: Sorry, it's boiling... ;)
If you are talking about a sprinter, then there is no point in doing so. It cost not 30,000, but 3,000, and had 4 MB, 21 MHzup to 2GB screw, with two IDE controllers, etc. It’s better to read it on the Peters+ website.
Hello, Alexey
Ale> Hello! I'm a beginner Spectrumist, so to speak.
Ale> I decided to build myself a Pentagon-1024SL, but there are a lot of questions and not enough
Ale> answers.
Ale>
Ale> I live in a “county town” :-), in Sevastopol, and it’s difficult here
Ale> get everything (computer hardware, parts). And in the Pentagon there is SIMM
Ale> for 1MB, I searched the whole city, all the computer store sellers
Ale> they make big eyes and say: “We don’t sell that kind of thing,” a nightmare
Ale> in a word... But I did find it - two 512Kb modules, attention, now
Ale> question - is it possible to install two modules, maybe in parallel
Ale> somehow? And yet, they are not like that, they are in the attachment
Ale> photo, please look and respond to e-mail if this is you
Ale> will not be difficult.
Ale>
Ale> In general, I suggest not closing or ignoring this topic because
Ale> you won’t believe it, there are beginners who are simply embarrassed to ask
Ale> on, sometimes, a truly topical topic, fearing to beAle> ignored or moderated. Support youth.
Ale>
Ale> Best regards, Alexey.
Eh, if Alexey lived in St. Petersburg, he would give you a free 30-pin SIM card
meter, from the bottom of my heart. I have more than a dozen of them...
Hello, Alexey
Ale> Yes, I heard a lot about VHDL, although I never had to work with it. Wherever
Ale> familiarize yourself with the language (something like a textbook, like "C++ for dummies") and
Ale> what software do you recommend for comfortable work with VHDL?
VHDL is one of the hardware description languages (according to my information, the most common one in
at the moment), but there are others. Regarding the software, there are third-party manufacturers
and there is also free software from matrix manufacturers. Altera has Quartus,
Xilinx is an ISE. Downloaded from their sites. Problem with third party software
that current stones may not be supported, but such software can
It’s not bad to combine (editor + synthesizer + simulator + analyzer, etc.). C
on the other hand, the Altera and Xilinx packages are quite complete and convenient. In general,
It's more of a religious issue.
I haven’t seen VHDL for dummies, better wait for CHRV’s article, I don’t know how to explain.
But it’s not difficult to learn and use, the main thing is to rebuild your way of thinking,
if you know how to program. If you don't want to bother with languages, you can use
circuit input and various mega-functions. But in my opinion this is not entirely elegant
(the book tells more than the picture), although it is not contraindicated :)
Forgot :) I myself would not mind listening to others on this issue. Surely not
one CHRV is familiar with this.
Hello, Alexey
Ale> And then, unfortunately, there is little information of this kind, or most of it
Ale> in the language of Shakespeare, and, as always, there is not enough time to study
Ale> translation. There would be more such thematic articles.
There is more information in Russian about working with FPGAs. Just googling is fine.
By the way, advice to programmers (especially applied programmers; it will be easier for systems engineers):
forget everything they knew about programming if they write in VHDL.
CHRV, I hope you won’t focus on one “A” in your article
producer and his "A" dialect?
Hello Mike
Mik> If you are talking about a sprinter, then it’s in vain. It cost not 30,000, but 3,000, and had 4
Mik> MB, 21 MHz to 2 GB screw, with two IDE controllers, etc. Better on
Mik> read the Peters+ website.
To be exact, $115.
The second IDE controller was not programmatically accessible, nor was the second video bank
memory...
Isn't the Peters site dead yet?
Hello, Alexey
Ale> Question: where to download or otherwise get the KAY schemes
Ale> Scropion e. t. c., to familiarize yourself with the typical circuit design of this type
Ale> kind of machines? The other day I downloaded a couple of such schemes, but, alas, the quality
Ale> of the scanned material was not up to par, half of it categorically
Ale> cannot be parsed...
I have a restored diagram of Kaya and Leningrad lying around on my website.
-+------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
2 ALL
Has anyone seen Steshenko’s books in virtual form? (on ftp electronics they
is there???)
You can answer in PM.
Hello Mike
Mik> If you are talking about a sprinter, then it’s in vain. It cost not 30,000, but 3,000, and had 4
Mik> MB, 21 MHz to 2 GB screw, with two IDE controllers, etc. Better on
Mik> read the Peters+ website.
I'm not talking about the Sprinter, but about something that does not exist in nature, but was made according to
the most modern technology...
OFF: Networking on RTL8139 costs 150-300 rubles. There's a lot there, but here's
try to buy small batches (~1000 pcs.) of the chips themselves, and they will cost you
600 rubles each... this is the arithmetic for the technology to be cheap you need
purchased in hundreds of thousands... And the Sprinter was most likely assembled from used modules:
simm, hdd, etc. Take it all new and the Sprinter will cost not $115, but already
$300, multiply by the course and you’ll understand what I mean... ;)
Hello, CHRV
CHR> If absolutely exactly 115$.
CHR> The second IDE controller was not programmatically accessible, like the second bank
CHR> video memory...
CHR> Isn't the Peters website dead yet?
What will happen to him, the company is alive. The Sprinters just turned around.
Hello jdigreze
jdi> I'm not talking about the Sprinter, but about something that does not exist in nature, but
jdi> made using the most modern technology...
jdi> OFF: Networking on RTL8139 costs 150-300 rubles. There's a lot there, h
jdi> try to buy small-scale (~1000 pcs.) of the chips themselves, and you’ll get by
jdi> they will cost you 600 rubles each... this is the arithmetic for the technology to exist
jdi> cheap you need to buy hundreds of thousands... But the Sprinter most likely was
jdi> assembled from used modules: simm, hdd, etc. Take it all new and Sprinter
jdi> will cost not $115, but already $300, multiply by the course and you will understand what I mean...
jdi> ;)
What does HDD and Simm have to do with it? This is not a sprinter, these are standard components.
The board itself cost $115 and was built on a cheap alternative. Naturally everything
it was new. Maybe with the exception of video memory, although such chips are clearly
are happening, and Dallas.
Hello Mike
OFF: So this “mother” alone cost so much?! :) And I was just talking about “EVERYTHING”
new"... Why do you think production was "curtailed"? Right! Because
not profitable. Because the cost of a COMPLETE set, even with “partially used”,
equaled the cost of a NEW entry-level "hemp". That's why Spectrum is like
the personal computer died and now lives only as a free platform
creativity.
Hello, Alexey
Ale> Yes, it’s really a pity, thank you very much... However, if I lived in
Ale> St. Petersburg, then I think there would be no problems with a 1MB SIMM.
Ale>
Ale> I want to tell a story about using the Z80.
Ale>
Ale> We have a wind farm (Wind Electric Station) in western Crimea, it is used
Ale> there is equipment from American manufacturers produced under license
Ale> in Ukraine, and is used in these Z80 units for control
Ale> by machine - angle of attack of the blades, turn in the wind e. t. c. So here I am
Ale> I think that this processor is alive and is being used very effectively.
Ale> And they work, by the way, almost autonomously, interference
Ale> person is minimal. This is the Z80 processor. :-)
Ale>
Ale> This is the story.
Nowadays, in many places, Zilog products from those times are still used. I
for example, I saw an office PBX with ~64 numbers, built on the Z8000. :)
Hello jdigreze
jdi> OFF: So this “mother” alone cost so much?! :) And I was just talking about
jdi> “EVERYTHING is new”... Why do you think they “curtailed” production?
jdi> Correct! Because it's not profitable. Because the cost of FULL
jdi> set, even with “partially used”, was equal to the cost of a NEW “hemp”
jdi> entry level. This is why the Spectrum is like a personal computer
jdi> died, and now lives only as a platform for free creativity.
New! For $115? Where ? Maybe an old one, second hand? Then I'll wash it too. And they failed
It's all up to you. There were no new, truly unique opportunities
software, except for a few half-made demos, a modem terminal,
shell, viewer with player and several other software. They are as usual
We hoped that enthusiasts would write. And the enthusiasts, as usual, said “why?
do we need hardware for which there is no software? ATM also costs about that, at the same time, it
Really less powerful and sophisticated, they still buy it. CHRV will not give
lie :) And they also screwed up all their software, under the PC. It turned out
Indeed, in appearance, it is an ordinary PC, only obviously low-power. And also this idea,
killed on August 17th. Or rather, not an unknown event. Before this, the people hadmoney, and there were significantly more people willing to buy. So we have a set
standard Russian troubles: incompetent leadership + economic instability in
country, caused, again, by incompetent leadership. Thank God, at least everything is now
It's getting better little by little.
Hello Mike
Mik> Oh, if only Alexey lived in St. Petersburg, he would give you a free 30-pin one
Mik> sim per meter, from the bottom of my heart. I have more than a dozen of them...
Yes, it’s really a pity, thank you very much... However, if I lived in St. Petersburg, then
I think there would be no problems with a 1MB SIMM.
I want to tell a story about using the Z80.
We have a wind farm (Vetro Electro Station) in western Crimea, it is used there
equipment from American manufacturers produced under license in Ukraine, and
used in these Z80 units to control the machine - angle of attack
blades, turning downwind e. t. c. So, I think that this processor is alive
and is used very effectively.
And they work, by the way, almost autonomously, human intervention
minimal. This is the Z80 processor. :-)
This is the story.
Hello jdigreze
jdi> OFF: So this “mother” alone cost so much?! :) And I was just talking about
jdi> “EVERYTHING is new”... Why do you think they “curtailed” production?
jdi> Correct! Because it's not profitable. Because the cost of FULL
jdi> set, even with “partially used”, was equal to the cost of a NEW “hemp”
jdi> entry level. This is why the Spectrum is like a personal computer
jdi> died, and now lives only as a platform for free creativity.
The assembled Sprinter, in the case (only without the screw) cost $160. Obviously cheaper than new
Hemp. And Spec as a mass-produced computer died not because of what you write. Just
The era of eight-bits (even very good ones) is gone, and it can’t be brought back. And not really
necessary.
Hello, Alexey
> Sprinter assembled, in a case (only without a screw) cost $160. Explicitly
> cheaper than the new Penka. And Spec as a mass-produced computer died not because
> what are you writing.
I won’t argue... So I’ve already flooded a lot... Let’s get back to the topic :)
There are at least 3 options (with a bunch of sub-options) for assembling the Spectrum:
1. Buy ready-made (all you have to do is load it into the case)
2. Buy used (dead or alive) and upgrade
3. Develop from scratch and do everything yourself...
Regarding memory modules, you shouldn’t start assembling if you can’t find them
suitable components, this is of course IMHO. In general, you can make modules yourself,
but this is not practical. (By the way, I didn’t do it myself, but I saw homemade ones on
RU7 - quite functional)
You can go the opposite way, first find some
kit, then adapt the Spectrum circuit to it, by the way, that’s exactly what
most clones were created, parts from the nearest
"dumpsters", then everything was put together ;)
Hello jdigreze
jdi> You can go through the reverse resistance, first find some
jdi> kit, then adapt the Spectrum circuit to it, by the way
jdi> this is how most clones were created, using parts from
jdi> the nearest "dumpster", then everything was connected together ;)
I fully support this. That's what I had to do.
By the way, is it possible to somehow flash iS-DOS into ROM, otherwise TR-DOS will start first,
Then you need to run iS-DOS yourself? Do something like autorun or boot
floppy disk Or did I miss something?