The idea of a simple extension of the standard video mode
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Let> P.P.S. But really, does the very fact of having a soldered cooler really warm your soul?
Let> glands as such? Personally, I have lines about “the coolest sprite
Let> engine", "hardware layers" and even all sorts of specific specifications
Let> cause zero emotions (not to mention screenshots from others
Let> platforms). It’s rather pleasing if a cool effect is made on poor hardware (a
Let> is even better - an “atmospheric” toy). After all, the main thing in dema-toys is
Let> the player's feelings, and not the "bare" number of colors, pixels and layers; somewhere
Let> on the spec, its hardware limitations do not prevent you from diving into them, but somewhere
Let> - just to tweak it a little.
The last one makes me very happy, well, it’s still a little bit impossible to improve.
Your arguments are empty because they are completely unsupported by decisions. That's if
sit down and think, draw, you will understand that there will be no simple solution, but
if it works, it will be with such restrictions that there will be no
makes no sense, because it will only be available for a maximum of one specific
clone, while others, as usual, will be left with nothing.
For example, I have already thought about this, and to everyone who is trying to continue thisPlease think about this conversation first...
I formalized the task.
Secondly, no one is taking away the standard screen, it is there, it will be there. A
the rest are attempts at the same creativity - amateur radio. How about taking something
the best from other platforms - why not. They are now using the AT keyboard,
mouse, hard drive - you don’t see anything wrong with that. But this on
there was no spec.
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
Hello Lethargeek
So for writers... do we need a change to the standard screen?
WBR, ASDT aka Victor
Hello ASDT
ASD> So, writers... do they need to change the standard screen?
What the hell! Buy ATMs and you will have various additional screens. Otherwise
now three out of five are soldered to a bluish haze on their boards of their exes (with
this moment) Spectrum.
Aren't you tired of dealing with handcraft? I also understand that if a bug is fixed,
by soldering an extra microcircuit, or soldering a slot to the processor signals, so that without
It's a problem to trim the periphery. And what is being proposed, IMHO, is a perversion...
--
Maksagor, NedoPC group
PC ATM-turbo 2+ [ZX rulezzz 4reva!!!]
:eek:
WBR, Maksagor aka Timonin Maxim Anatolievich
Hello Lethargeek
I'm interested in the opinion of those who actually write the game(s)...
And who can benefit from this expansion?
If there are any.
WBR, ASDT aka Victor
Hello ASDT
ASD> Interested in the opinion of those who actually write the game(s) ...
ASD> And who can benefit from this extension.
ASD> If there are any.
Perhaps I’ll sponsor some writer so that he can write such a game... And
then apply it with an axel to demonstrate the capabilities!
Well, this is still a distant future!
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
WBR, CHRV aka Chunin Roman
Hello, CHRV
CHR> Perhaps I’ll sponsor some writer to write a game like this...
CHR> And then apply it with an axel to demonstrate the capabilities! Well that's it
CHR> still distant future!
The easiest way is to ask the Spanish for the source code of the demos for V9990, and
adjust them to the Spectrum with this extension :) Minimum time and results
it's obvious right away!
By the way, MSX has BASIC for V9990, and since the graphics hardly load the Z80,
Some very impressive games are written on it. Maybe dig in this direction?
And also - if you need it for business - I can send you my GFX9000 so that you can
I studied real hardware. You have MSX, but you can always return it.
By the way, if you change one of the quartz crystals on the GFX9000 to a higher frequency one, V9990
will output VGA signal!
Roman, maybe you can give some code name to the concept extension on V9990 and
will you start a new topic? Otherwise, we seem to have intercepted the topic of the poor lethargic with
its simple extension com MGTF :)
--
I arrived at the field of miracles, Yakubovich is here and he’s great. That's the end of the poem
Christ is risen! [http://www.livejournal.com/users/frumich/39033.html]
WBR, dhau aka Ibrahim Zinatuli
Hello dhau
My suggestions for a title:
BFG 9990 (BFG == Blazing Fast Graphics? May you remember doom1&2...)
General Video (spit under General Sound)
Turbo Video (spit under Turbo Sound / Turbo FM)
Add :)
--
I arrived at the field of miracles, Yakubovich is here and he’s great. That's the end of the poem
Christ is risen! [http://www.livejournal.com/users/frumich/39033.html]
WBR, dhau aka Ibrahim Zinatuli
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Be afraid, spektrumists, Big Bill is looking at you too!
Let's better, like adults, talk about business.
I still haven’t seen your solutions, if they are possible then I’m interested in them
I'll consider it!
By the way, the processor in question has nothing to do with the BG. He
used on Asian "relatives" - MSX computers. Paranoia is very
dangerous disease ;)
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
WBR, CHRV aka Chunin Roman
Hello Lethargeek
Let> By the way, CHRV, why is it suddenly on “you”, let’s continue on “you”, after all in
Let> we communicate in networks under nicknames, and not at an official reception... And don’t “poke”
Let> I started first. ;)
If I respect a person but don’t know him, I address him as YOU. I respect you
culture, but poking is like “what to write past the urinal” ((c)professor
Preobrazhensky from "Heart of a Dog"
In general, this is off-topic and has nothing to do with the topic, in the future if something is not
suits my style, then write to me personally! I'll do my laundry here!
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
WBR, CHRV aka Chunin Roman
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Here I was going to throw in the answer I had prepared for CHRV, but I changed my mind. Thoughts
Let> various fresh ones popped into my head, and in general... In short, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow
Let> a more efficient expanded version will be ready (and not a meaningless
Let> continuation of the dispute between the blind and the deaf ;) ).
By the way, about blindness and deafness... just be honest, you have a real Spectrum
is there? Do you use it or at least turn it on? What model?
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
WBR, CHRV aka Chunin Roman
Hello Lethargeek
"Message from Lethargeek"
If this is the case...
Write to uv.Lethargeek, what kind of game are you going to write?
Or is someone going to do something...?
Then there is the subject of conversation.
WBR, ASDT aka Victor
Hello ASDT
ASD> "Message from Lethargeek"
ASD> If such is the case...
ASD> Write to uv.Lethargeek, what kind of game are you going to write?
ASD> Or who is going to... ?
ASD> Then there is a subject of conversation.
Perhaps I understood the following. Lethargeek looks at exactly the improvement method
existing games by adding some additional hardware feature
(well, for example, folding two screens located in different memory locations),
improving color depth or resolution.
Moreover, he does not offer a ready-made solution, but rather as an idea for discussion.
And I, being such a bad person ;), am cutting this idea down. Well, accordingly, I’ll give some
arguments why this should not be done (at least on existing realities).
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
WBR, CHRV aka Chunin Roman
Hello Lethargeek
"not a ready-made solution, but rather as an idea for discussion"
You can discuss with those who will (want) these “improvements”
use. But there are no takers...
WBR, ASDT aka Victor
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Ronin> have you done a lot of programming yourself?
Let> ` from a certain point, everything you described simply becomes unimportant.
Let>
Let> Did you understand what you wanted to say?
Let>
Let> Ronin> the problem is that there is no OS! and not about who wants what
Let> Ronin> megaconnect.
Let>
Let> Hehe, what will the new axis give in terms of improving Spectrum graphics and
Let> make it easier to program? Or all output to the screen will have to go
Let> via some DirectZX,
everything is clear, dear. your limit is linear algorithms on ASMA, maximum with
call-ami. That's why you count bytes and clock cycles.
ASD> Write to uv.Lethargeek, what kind of game are you going to write?
“there is no reality, I won’t make my own superscreen, and I won’t write the software myself either
I will" - correct me, am I doing something wrong?
WBR, Ronin aka Victor Roni
Hello Specter
Spe> Dear CHRV! I have great respect for you as a professional in
Spe> hardware. Unfortunately, in 9 pages of this thread I never saw
Spe> answers to several that interest me (I think also the author of this thread)
Spe> questions. I can ask you to “finally” at least give a very rough estimate
Spe> the scale of the Spectrum shocks (how many cases to add, how many to throw away
Spe> or replace)? Are there any global problems that make sense
Spe> such modification is lost (that is, it becomes easier to develop a new one
Spe> Spectrum software compatible with the original)? And finally, what from
Spe> of the initially proposed option can be implemented "small
Spe> blood"? Of course, I don’t expect any accuracy, but at least quite
Spe> I think it’s possible to give an approximate estimate.
They probably didn’t read it carefully and, again, approach it amateurishly. A
you know why I think so - because you didn’t indicate it in your question, well at least
the Spectrum model with which we will evaluate ;) (do you know what I mean?).
I will not get tired of saying many times that for each clone this modification will beits own unique, and considering that most modern realists
they use already “modified” and sometimes “refined” ;) Spectrums - that’s what
what will we do with them? This is actually a “global problem”, i.e. we
(or you) will not be able to make it a separate additional board.
In short, anyone who is more or less “chopping” in hardware can estimate what will happen to
its Spectrum if you do:
- additional (second line) memory (if it does not exist);
- make parallel logic for signal output from the second memory line;
- create logic for mixing signals;
- add additional memory management logic.
Well, just like that... Of course, in reality there will most likely be more improvements
will be required.
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> P.S. No, the answer is not ready yet, I actually came on another topic and didn’t
Let> held on ;)
Well, I don’t have any questions either, how strange it would be to discuss something with a person who
Real doesn't use it much :(.
Personally, I am ending this discussion for myself, unless, of course, something appears
worthy of attention.
--
NedoPC group. Sprinter-2K, ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon1024SL.
[I suggest: ATM Turbo 2+, PAL coder, IDE by Nemo, TS, TS-FM, YM2149 and more]
It's all here: http://www.nedopc.com.
Hello, CHRV
CHR> Well, I don’t have any questions either, how strange it would be to discuss something with a person
CHR> which the real world doesn’t really use :(. Personally, I’m finishing this discussion for myself
CHR> unless, of course, something worthy of attention appears.
Dear CHRV! I have great respect for you as a professional in
hardware. Unfortunately, in 9 pages of this thread I never saw
answers to several questions that interest me (and I think the author of this thread).
I can ask you “finally” to at least very roughly estimate the scale
shocks of the Spectrum (how many cases to add, how many to throw out or
replace)? Are there any global problems due to which the meaning of such
improvements are lost (that is, it becomes easier to develop a new Spectrum
software compatible with the original)? And finally, what of the proposed
Can the initial option be implemented with “little loss”?
Of course, I don’t expect any accuracy, but at least very approximate
I think it’s possible to give an assessment.
Hello Specter
Let> but not so much that I suddenly fell in love immediately
Let> original
Laughing :biggrin: :v2_lol:
Spe> assess the scale of the Spectrum shocks (how many cases to add, how many
Spe> throw out or replace)? Are there any global problems
We read to Him :)
The whole point is that you need to climb with a soldering iron and mgtf.
Hello Lethargeek
“It’s necessary - it’s not necessary...” It’s clear. The whole topic is an empty rut.
Hello Lethargeek
I think you’ll be pouring water here for a long time... I had a
similar idea, but I wanted to mix three screens and get 16 colors per
pixel at standard 256*192.
It went something like this: we have 4 pieces of external memory of 8kB each (each
6kB are used, where Speck screens are #1800 and each is responsible for
your color - R, G, B and brightness). At moments when a byte is fetched in normal mode
from the screen area, in my scheme 4 bytes are simultaneously selected. Next comes
analogous to a regular spec, only in quadruple execution - at the right moments
instead of the INF signal (in the standard spec) we get 4 signals - R, G, B, I
(brightness). It remains to introduce a signal responsible for what will be passed through
path behind KP11 - i,r,g,b from it (standard screen) or I,R,G,B from our diagram
(of course, these are standard signals on the curb).
Then I ran into a problem - I needed 4 ports to “communicate” with video memory and
then: how to make them - is it really necessary to read something from there? And how exactly
form a sampling address - from H0..7, V0..7 or somehow from MA0..7?
I'm not as good at hardware as CHRV, but I'm not that bad either! Therefore to him
question - is it possible to organize 8Kbyte memory in one chip, so that the number
corps did not reach a huge number and how could it be more economical to organizewriting to this memory (according to my conservative calculations, a 13-bit memory address is needed
[two 8-bit ports] and 4 ports for writing bytes to 4 screen areas)
If my idea is not buried in the ground, but they help me solve a couple of problems, I’ll try it
embody it in my Scorpio.
Hello Lethargeek
(I almost forgot)
Ronin> everything is clear, dear. your limit is linear algorithms on ASMA,
Ronin> maximum s
` calls. That's why you count bytes and clock cycles.
It’s good, probably, this is how life is - from birth “everything is clear.” And effective
"linear
algorithms on ASMA" are not such a common thing, as you can see after delving into
toys.
And as for “bytes and clock cycles” - come on, dear, let’s give some example here
cool
programming environments on the ZX, where they are not needed for effective graphics output
count.
What? Laser Basic? Ah, I heard it... :D :D :D
Ronin> "there is no real thing, I won’t make my own superscreen, and I’ll write the software myself
Ronin> I won’t either"
` - correct me, am I wrong about something?
Correct it, don’t correct it, it’s either in the forehead or in the forehead. Are you actually when I
you write the answers,
Are you reading MY posts or YOURS? And I’m not tired of squeezing out two each time
flame lines?
I understand, of course, that reading a lot of small letters is hard work, but
still
Read the topic a couple of times first and look for answers to your questions. If not
you can handle it and nothing
If you don't find it in two or three weeks, let me know. I'm rubbing my nose.
Hello Lethargeek
AB> Isn’t it time to honestly admit that new ones have emerged in recent years
AB> less than a dozen toys?
count it carefully :)
- A.Coder [Wolf3d2004 InfoGuide7 ACEdit96 ACN42 PT3695 Chip13 HexFill HDDoct6]
[Ansi04 8col12 ZXRar27UnR59 Jpg042 CacVox1 Dbs07 Gluk61R PC21 Alasm50f2 Sts70i]
What are these, like, all toys? Well, if in the most general sense, then of course... :D
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Why does bloat have to be done “from the inside”? I'm not
Let> in vain I said that the end user-coder should be deeply violet,
Let> what a brilliant (or vice versa, what a crustacean) way is this
Let> is implemented. It just fulfills certain conventions and that's it.
Because the majority do not have the opportunity to do this “outside” (read
there is no system connector), and if they do, then the “outside” is non-standard (not
within the same model, of course). I hope I expressed myself clearly?
Let> So then we should not engage in empty talk about the dangers of “hands-on”, but
Let> agree on a single standard for the most connectable connector, allowing
Let> connect the most unimaginable devices, publish modification schemes and/or
Let> adapters for the main clones,
In common parlance, develop a tire. How many years has it been in development? How much
have there been any attempts to raise this issue here? By the way, Western friends are mostly
are guided by the system connector of the original Spectrum, which in Soviet
clones and does not smell.
Let> "Stick your hands in" and risk the computer then you will only need it ONCE, at Let> install/modify the connector.
Doesn't it make you think that this will be a different computer?
Hello icebear
2 Lethargek
Your initial idea is very good - IBM, maybe not Microsoft (in terms of
support), but PC is a “long-term” development, because open technology and
maximum reasonable compatibility.
To raise Speccy, you need to respect it. Just the way it is. Therefore, without
compatibility won't work...
You say Vasik may get hurt. Why? If hardware table pointers
attributes (a very good idea, IMHO!) will point ANYWHERE in the first
page, at least in the same place - what is Vasik suffering from? And is it really in
There are so few reserve places in the sysvariables that these sysvariables cannot be
used both to change pointers and to manage the entire innovation
(on/off - for compatibility ;) )
Hello, SAM style
SAM> I think you’ll be pouring water here for a long time... I started about a year and a half ago
SAM> had a similar idea, but I wanted to mix three screens and get 16
SAM> colors per pixel with standard 256*192. It went something like this: we have 4
SAM> 8kB piece of external memory (each uses 6kB where
SAM> Speck screens are #1800 each and each is responsible for its own color - R, G, B and
SAM> brightness). At moments when a byte is selected from the screen in normal mode
SAM> areas, in my scheme 4 bytes are selected at a time. Next comes the analogue
SAM> regular spec, only in quadruple execution - at the right moments
SAM> instead of the INF signal (in the standard spec) we get 4 signals - R,G,B,I
SAM> (brightness). It remains to enter a signal responsible for what will be skipped in
SAM> path behind KP11 - i,r,g,b from it (standard screen) or I,R,G,B from ours
SAM> circuits (of course, on the border these are standard signals). If my idea is not
SAM> they will cover it with earth, and they will help with solving a couple of problems, I will try to implement it in
SAM> my scorpion.Great idea. Such ideas should not be buried, but tried. :)
Drawing a point with your own colors is what is missing in computer graphics on
spec. When writing the OS, I encountered, in the graphical interface, with
problem of "normal" display of window space, since there is no "point in
color”, but only a familiar place, then the windows turned out ugly. And any attempts
to make it “beautiful” resulted in abnormal text printing on these windows.
I had a similar idea a long time ago after reading a description in Radio magazine
(or friend???) about PC Corvette. If you add fantasy..(not for
faint of heart)..add some kind of processor to such a screen (in the form of a board in
slot for KAY), which will draw all sorts of “stuff” (lines, triangles and
etc.) it would be very interesting in terms of drawing and shading speed
interface and in terms of 3D graphics. In principle, you need to get 48K spec and use it
try. :)
Hello, spectrum
spe> Great idea. Such ideas should not be buried, but tried. :)
spe> Drawing a point with your own colors is what is missing in the computer
spe> chart on the spec. When writing the OS I encountered, in graphical
spe> interface, with the problem of "normal" display of window space,
spe> since there is no “dot in color”, but only a familiar place, then the windows are ugly
spe> worked. And any attempts to make him “beautiful” turned out to be abnormal
spe> print text on these windows.
Maybe we’ll still take an interest in what’s already been implemented in hardware, please?
Take a look at the ATM programming doc at least with one eye :). She lies
absolutely open atmturbo.nedopc.com
Hello fan
fan> I don’t see anything... bla-bla-bla...
I'm waiting for YOUR diagram - what signals go where, how many buildings, what they do, and also
CPU and cash costs for this. And the snot about something like that over there
it’s done and we can’t do it here..." I don’t fucking need it. I give it a week. After
expiration of the deadline - come to my headquarters with a report on the work done. And now
Kru-u-u-gom and start developing a new video mode.
PS: I have a different strategy - to do and offer what has been done, and not to smear the snot
on bread and do nothing
Hello, SAM style
SAM> It was something like this: we have 4 pieces of external memory of 8 kB each (each
SAM> is used in 6kB, where speck screens are #1800 each
SAM> is responsible for its color - R, G, B and brightness). In moments when in normal
SAM> mode selects a byte from the screen area, in my scheme at the same time
SAM> 4 bytes are selected. Next comes an analogue of the usual spec, only in
SAM> quadruple execution - at the right moments instead of the INF signal (in
SAM> standard spec) we get 4 signals - R, G, B, I (brightness). All that remains is to enter
SAM> signal responsible for what will be passed into the path behind KP11 - i,r,g,b s
SAM> her (standard screen) or I,R,G,B from our diagram (naturally, on the border
SAM> these are standard signals).
Well, I don’t see the point in “external” memory, what difference does it make what is where if
The controller handles the output and it doesn’t matter where you throw the pictures (graphics).
R, G, B, I (brightness) - saving on matches, no one bothers you to screw the DAC to
each color (RGB) channel (as in the sprinter), with R, G, B, I (brightness)
will turn into a normal four-dimensional screen, the same 16 colors but witharbitrary palette. The most popular option is a three-bit screen (8 colors) with
arbitrary palette. You can also make the pop resolution 128*192, and
finally pervert in every way. But it’s better to put this on the shoulders of the single-crystal chip,
and not crumbly.
Hello, SAM style
Well, yes, that’s what I see when you talk about the finished product...
Do you want it ready? Get http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=1597.
And there is no need for any left-wing attacks, this is a normal discussion, not talk in
“I’m a fool” style (although many are attracted to this)...
Hello, SAM style
Why react so harshly??? There is a completely peaceful discussion here, well, almost peaceful
:D
There seems to be a ready-made solution http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=1597
And no matter what anyone says, of the realistically feasible options, only the one if
So you can say (considering the desire of the people to buy and program ;)), although
would be for the reason that everything is already ready and connecting, to put it mildly, is simpler than
any loose version + clone variety does not matter.
Hello fan
fan> There seems to be a ready-made solution http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=1597
fan> ["http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=1597"] And no matter what anyone says, from
fan> the only realistically implemented options are, if I may say so (taking into account
fan> people's desire to buy and program ;) ), if only for the reason that
fan> everything is ready and connecting, to put it mildly, is simpler than any loose
fan> variant + clone variety does not matter.
This is initially a dead option. For example, I can now find any source code
your toy, let it be Clickmania. So even though there is little
dynamic graphics is used, but converting it to V9990 is quite
problematic (even with the source code in hand!). And how many more people do you think?
will he reason like me?
Try remaking Wolf...
Hello ASDT
ASD> "For example, I can now find the source code for any of my toys"
ASD> Or maybe the “Kind and sympathetic” Specter will have his say?
ASD> How does he see the extension... which can be useful for games...
can I tell you? I repeated it a year and a half ago (and a little
improved) the idea of the Spanish comrades, the so-called Spec256. Get into the code
and remake it so that the code works to fill additional video memory
“not as it was” in the world 48-128 - no need. No programming required.
Let's start with this. And this should actually be the end of it, inventing a new
video mode It was possible to implement it in the emulator. There are already two dozen games
remade. It's up to the iron workers to repeat it in real life. Who's first? Volume
memory - real, by the way. We must remember to come up with a way to fill out
color memory only - when loading a snapshot from a disk. For example, this memory
can be accessed linearly through a sea of additional banks. I suspect that
you will have to put 8 Z80s in a row, and in some cases perform operations
on PPLM (or whatever they are called). But it’s quite feasible. Only if
there will be someone who really wants it. Okay, let's go... If we were there, we would have been there a long time ago
embodied.
Hello Lethargeek
“For example, I can now find the source code for any of my toys.”
Or maybe the “Kind and sympathetic” Specter will have his say?
How does he see an extension... that could be useful for games...
Hello SMT
SMT> to each bit of Spectrum memory
Got it, let's count it. 6144x8 = 49152 => 48K. Converges with flow rate for
resolution 256x192x8. Those. roughly speaking 48K of separate memory.
SMT> and an additional byte is attached to each bit of the z80 register. when
SMT> bits are sent, this byte too.
Why is this? I mean, why monitor _register bits_ (or do you
registers)?
SMT> for arithmetic/logical operations, their own actions are applied (immediately
SMT> I won’t say which ones). you just need to find out
Well, yes, for example, to calculate the correct resultant when two
flowers, right? But how do you find out where the sprites are? Hack?
SMT> where the game sprites are located, and add a byte color to each bit of the sprite. further
SMT> will display them, move them, etc. already the z80 itself along with the glued ones
SMT> colors. As a result, the video memory ends up with not just a set of bits, but together with
SMT> by pasted bytes, which are interpreted by the screen painter as colors
SMT> dots under this bit
Hmm, slowly. And it's difficult. But there is a way out. :)
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> Only if there is someone who really wants it. Okay, let's go... We were
Vla> would have been realized long ago.
I'm really afraid to ask about the operating principle of this expansion to 256 colors.
Hello ASDT
As far as I understand, the problem is the lack of an extensive set of procedures (with
description) for using V9990, not to mention the lack of Russian-language information.
Do I understand correctly???
IMHO - with Wolf it is quite possible to pervert on V9990 (it will look like a citadel,
although I don’t really remember what she looked like). In "soft" advanced modes (from
three bits and above ;)) Wolf will simply fall into a coma.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> can I tell you? I repeated it a year and a half ago (and a little
Vla> improved) the idea of the Spanish comrades, the so-called Spec256. Climb in
Vla> code and redo it so that the code works to fill in the additional
Vla> video memory “not as it was” in the 48-128 world is not necessary.
Vla> No programming required. Let's start with this. And this actually should be
Vla> finish by inventing a new video mode. It was possible to implement it in the emulator.
Vla> There are two dozen games that have already been remade. It's up to the iron workers - repeat in
Vla> real. Who's first? The amount of memory is real, by the way. We must not forget
Vla> come up with a way to fill color memory only - at boot
Vla> snapshot from the wild. For example, this memory can be accessed linearly via
Vla> a sea of additional banks. I suspect I'll have to put 8 in a row
Vla> Z80 pieces, and in some cases perform operations on PPLM (or whatever they are
Vla> are called there). But it’s quite feasible. Only if there is someone Vla> really willing. Okay, let's go... If we were there, we would have been there a long time ago
Vla> incarnated.
For a long time I wanted to ask the essence of coloring in Spec256? I thought it was something
like anti64 in US, that is, we intercept the output of sprites on the screen and substitute
already ready-made, redrawn, which means the idea is not ported to the real Spectrum.
But it looks like I was wrong?
Hello fan
fan> As far as I understand, the problem is the lack of an extensive set of procedures (with
fan> description) for using V9990, not to mention the lack of Russian-language
fan> information. Do I understand correctly???
The problem is inertial thinking. If coder Vasya Pupkin knows perfectly
Z80 command system and Spectrum 128K architecture, then it should be very
a significant reason for him to learn (and start using!) something fundamental
new. For money it’s just a conversation, but when it’s just a hobby there are no people interested.
fan> IMHO - with Wolf it is quite possible to pervert on V9990 (it will look like
fan> citadel, although I don’t really remember what it looked like). In "software"
fan> extended modes (from three bits and above ;) ) Wolf will simply fall into a coma.
It’s very easy to imagine what it will look like. Draw a picture in BGE
(Photoshop) is not a problem, writing the entire code of the game (program) is completely different
song.
Hello Lethargeek
> I suspect that I will have to put 8 Z80s in a row
that's not enough. in the general case, when it is not easy to perform on data
shipping, as well as checking, unpacking, etc. all Z80s are out of sync. those
Moreover, it is necessary to ensure simultaneous synchronous access of all processors to
keyboard and VG93. the easiest way is to install 8 Spectrums so that each one gives
1-bit video output (we ignore attributes), then collect this byte into
palette pixel. but then on the same hardware it is more profitable to mix 8
Spectrum outputs along with attributes - the effects will be much more
more interesting, multifaceted (especially if you make them like FM operators - on
the choice is either add, or multiply, or use as a mask :))
Hello Specter
Spe> I wanted to ask the essence of coloring in Spec256
to every bit of Spectrum memory and to every bit of the z80 register
an additional byte is attached. when bits are sent, so is this byte. at
arithmetic/logical operations apply their own actions (I won’t say right away
which ones). you just need to know where the game sprites are, and every bit of the sprite
add byte-color. Then they will be displayed, moved, etc. already z80 itself
along with glued flowers. As a result, it turns out that in video memory it’s not just
a set of bits, and together with pasted bytes, which are interpreted by the painter
screen as the color of the dot under this bit
Hello Lethargeek
Let> And what I suggested last time - just intercept for writing to
Let> the screen needs to be made, if without quarters, that is, completely passive
Let> device from the programmer's point of view.
The idea is not new and very good (in that it is framed as a separate independent
module). The Germans, for example, created an LCD display controller in this way in 96-97
years for the ZX-81. With your own Z80 (well then just all sorts of matrices are not very
were distributed among civilians).
Hello Lethargeek
ice> Got it, let's do the math. 6144x8 = 49152 => 48K. Converges with consumption
ice> for resolution 256x192x8. Those. roughly speaking 48K of separate memory
yes, but each z80 works with its own 6144 (or the emulator runs non-8-bit
registers, but 8-byte mmx registers), so speed does not suffer
SMT> and an additional byte is attached to each bit of the z80 register. when
SMT> bits are sent, this byte too
ice> Why is this? I mean, why monitor _register bits_ (or do you do it yourself
ice> registers)?
so as not to make changes to the game code. when a byte is read from memory where it lies
sprite, into a register, pasted colors are read into the same register. during shifts
or other processing of data read from a sprite, pasted color bytes
move with the sprite bits. in the end they will end up on the screen and it doesn’t matter how
the programmer perverted them, even though he wrote through the stack
ice> But how do you find out where the sprites are? Hack?
There are tools, both on PC and Spectrum, for viewing memory in a graphical way
form. sprites are visually hooked
ice> Hmm, slowly. And it's difficult. But the way out
in reality it's bullshit. if we put an 8 processor (what is it - 8Spectrums), then it is better that they do not process the same
program, differing in the memory contents only in the places of the sprites, and to do so,
as I wrote 17:22
Hello ASDT
yes, that's right, it should be exactly 8 specs, approximately equal in size
configurations. It’s better to take 48K or 128K without additional bells and whistles. (and
remake then - as is now being done - games made for these modes).
I can already imagine this real monster (actually real, no jokes) - 8
parallel installed boards, the inputs of int, wait, and clk are cut off at 7, and
the corresponding wires are stretched from the 1st - leading - speck to the 7 others.
So that in the end all 8 plow as one. Video outputs from all computers are collected in
one composite signal of 256 colors and goes to a regular ibm monitor (digital or
analogue, this is no longer the point - how it is soldered). But we need one more thing. There's a row
operations that are somewhat different from what a percent would do with a regular
byte of 8 bits. Usually this case concerns working with the L register, and there is one more
chip. Some spec programs store large sprites for natural savings
once, and to perform the operation of shifts, mappings, masking such
sprites when displayed on the screen are kept in memory by several (7 pieces) 256-byte
tables. So, using signatures, I determine in the emulator what the program is doing now
This is exactly the kind of action, and I do a little something that the other guy wouldn’t do himself.
(Actually, this is my main improvement against the Spec256, althoughThere are a couple more tricks. Well, not counting the coloring tool). In general, if anyone
lights up, I will highlight all these operations in detail and tell you in detail. But then -
Don't give up: soldering iron in your teeth - and go ahead :) In general, for such
operations, you really need to track the contents of the registers, and look at
memory, and some kind of additional board must do this.
And about 6144 - you misunderstood. EVERY bit of RAM
a byte of the extended memory graph is compared. Total 48Kx8=384K or
128Kx8=1024K=1M. SMT got it... he explains it correctly :)
I have a tool for reworking in my emulator, it’s powerful enough to perform
searching for sprites and coloring almost all of them. It's easier to look at those that have already been converted
games (again, better for EmuZWin - Spec256 does not have tools and does not support
some transformations - not all modifications under it will work correctly. Maybe
That’s why the Spaniards gave up on this matter in 2000. It's a pity - it's a cool idea, it's just
was a little ahead of its time. It was much easier for me, with MMH, I really
I drive 64-bit bytes through MMX registers, the speed is practically no
falls).
Yes, I almost forgot. The background may still be drawn there. For example, stone or
grassy background in knight lore, or clouds in BruceLee. In the emulator for this
a set of signatures from the screen area is used when drawing according to certainrules instead of pixels that are considered transparent in the spec screen,
256-color pixels from the current background are substituted. By signature in
screen, the background can be switched. Signatures are naturally set by the one who
colors graphics to prepare backgrounds in the required format 320x200x256
There is a separate tool. That's all the technology. It's really easy in the emulator. And
It's really not difficult to remake games - you just need to know how to use them
paintbrush.
Hello Lethargeek
Lethargeek>Already loaded a person with a similar question - so that at least ldirs
Lethargeek>all sorts of video memory worked in parallel for all allowed
Lethargeek>planes.
And without this, the regime is of no use...
Lethargeek>And about the rest - why
"including" shift? On the z80 there seem to be no commands like "xor [hl],reg", only
single
"rlc/rrc/rl/rr/sla/sra/sli/srl/bit/set/res [hl]" - almost all of which are shifts.
:)
For most, parallel work (at least partially)
So I was talking about the shift using the adapter, not the CPU :)
Lethargeek>It is much more important to make the byte recording mode “shifted” by two
Lethargeek>"neighboring" (on-screen) addresses
(and also taking into account OR/AND/XOR), even with an extra write cycle (otherwise in
APA memory is not enough for pre-calculated horizontal shift phases
multi-layer sprites).
That's what I'm talking about! We need a shift like on EGA, only _non-cyclical_, but in order
the byte could be written to adjacent 2.
[I]madcore> They are prohibited for this reason, so that there is nothing in them
[I]madcore> was written.
' And it is necessary that all bit planes are installed in accordance with the selected
color.Lethargeek>Why an extra register if there is a bit list of allowed and >forbidden
Lethargeek>planes are actually color. [/I]
No, not actually, because “1” may already be written in forbidden planes, but
in our color there is "0".
Okay, I won’t talk about the rest for now, I’ll think about it some more.
Lethargeek>I am, by the way
I'm thinking about combining two 64-color screens into one 4096-color screen, and
this decision is logically sound and there are no heaps of new pieces of hardware in my scheme
will require.
That is, in fact, you will get a screen of 12 planes, right? So this is what I mean
in view of the fact that it can be divided into 2 simply by setting the palette! Nothing
There is no need to fence specifically for this. And distribute the quantity
bits (planes) to a point between plans we can do as we want. In general, we can
make at least 6 plans of 2 bits per point. And screens can be made
translucent. And draw in each one individually simply by prohibiting other people’s bits
plane.
So, to make the idea clearer, I’ve just sketched out a program (for PC;(), which breaks
256-screen on two 16-color. True, the addressing there is not planned, but linear,
therefore, conventionally, the first half of the byte is the foreground, the second is the background. Pikrepil
to the message.
Lethargeek>You better write it like how I explained the idea of a valve
Lethargeek>screen:what is recorded in each plane, and what we will see on the screen as a result.
I'll try, I'm just trying to reconcile my version and yours.
File: 2PLANE.RAR http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=1891
Hello, CHRV
CHRV> MSX is not a sixteen-bit console, but v9990 is specifically designed for 8-bit
CHRV> processor (I would even say specifically for the Z80 architecture). If you
CHRV> If you don’t know this, then you don’t need to fool others. I follow the trade and not
CHRV> I wish that because of my ignorance they will mislead others. Be
CHRV> pay attention!
“Some kind of superchip” was mentioned, and not specifically v9990. Moreover, in the context
inflated (in my opinion) appetites of madcore in matters of development
original device. What he wanted was more for 16-bits, IMHO.
Hello ASDT
ASD> While “It’s gurgling in my head” ...
ASD> Let me remind you that the topic is "The idea of a simple extension..."
Uh-huh. So far, no one has proposed a scheme for even that simple extension.
But, look, in a couple of months GeForce will be nothing compared to Spekovskaya
card...
Hello Lethargeek
While “It’s gurgling in my head”...
Let me remind you that the topic is “The idea of a simple extension...”
Hello, ewgeny7
so far the simplest (but buggy) option for expanding to color per point is AlCo from
ZX.SPECTRUM
Hello SMT
SMT> so far the simplest (but buggy) option for expanding to color per point y
SMT> AlCo from ZX.SPECTRUM
But however, the main (and, perhaps, the only) problem with AlCo is its confinement
exclusively under staingon. The same 384x304 - I don’t know which one will be released on Scorpio and XS
what will be the addresses of the pieces. But the idea itself is to build on the standard
screenshot - I definitely like his work.
Hello, CHRV
So, people, I'm already crazy :))) Is 4x4 attr already done? And CHRV is right about v9990. Well
But there won’t be any apparate sprites? Like on the Amiga: set the size of the sprite, where,
where - everything. ??? But a sea of flowers doesn’t seem necessary to me. 64 would be enough.
Quite.
Hello, Witch Doctor
LVD, why “on scorpion and xs what will be the addresses of the pieces”???
Hello, Witch Doctor
And let's support 384x304. At least in the text of leaflets, etc. system software.
I'm already silent about games :)
Hello, Witch Doctor
> LVD, why "on scorpion and xs what will be the addresses of the pieces" ???
And you read about 384x304 in the original source - and you will understand... =)
Hello, lvd
I read it... Still, please explain. Can you vote about the modes? And then about
modes ala 1 color per 1 point: isn’t it bold? For what ? What is the size of the graphics?
will it be? And where can I get a graph editor for such tricky modes? With 4x4 type modes
attr etc. At least you can use what you have. How do you think ?
Hello, Witch Doctor
Wait a little, the new version will have everything - 4x4 attributes, APA, and
standard screen, smoothly transitioning to APA, and Hardware Multicolor support
will even appear. Maybe I’ll present it (after) tomorrow, I haven’t thought of it a bit yet.
:sleep:
In this case, the sophistication will not increase much, rather this will happen:
quantitative complication of the functional diagram with qualitative simplification.
Hello SMT
"so far the simplest (but buggy) option for expanding to color per point is AlCo from
ZX.SPECTRUM"
Can you provide more details... or where...
Hello ASDT
ASD> "so far the simplest (but buggy) option for expanding to color per point
ASD> from AlCo from ZX.SPECTRUM"
ASD> Can you provide more details... or where...
This is mainly intended for the Pentagon.
Read this in Alko-news on Virtual TrDos.
Hello, All
Kon> ... but freezer!!! MORE FREEZERS, MORE FREEZERS, MORE
Kon> FREEZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
not an exact quote =]]
Hello, CHRV
“This is mainly intended for the Pentagon.”
I did an “expansion” for Leningrad a long time ago -
there it simply sent signals from the curb to the multiplexers...
No additional chips, but video memory in pieces...
Wow.
Hello ASDT
2 Lethargeek:
Well, how did it all end?