Is it really possible to create Sinclair on MK?
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello Shaos
It won't work to drive the Spectrum into the AVR - even if you only drive hardware with memory and
Z80 outside is a bit slow and too small, but if you take something fast - like
microcontroller SX28 overclocked megahertz to 80 (turbo mode 1 command per clock),
then iron can theoretically be coated - let’s try...
Hello, D-M
DM> I had an idea to create a computer on a microcontroller (type
DM> ATmega), but I haven’t seen a single example on the net, in general, who has seen or
DM> did please share information
Look on the nedopc forum, there were discussions about replacing the Z80 with PIC.
Hello, All
I had an idea to create a computer on a microcontroller (ATmega type), but not
I have seen more than one example on the net, in general, whoever has seen or done it, please share the information
please
Hello, DVS
DVS> Look on the nedopc forum, there were discussions about replacing the Z80
DVS> on PIC.
sorry, I'm new and don't know where to look for nedopc
so share the links ;)
Hello Shaos
I see, thank you very much
then one more question, what if there are three (or four) avras :)
how best to distribute functions and tasks
PS, in principle, speed doesn’t matter; it would have worked
Hello, DVS
DM> Is it really possible to create Sinclair on MK?
no. no one has yet managed to create a human clone using MK
Hello, D-M
DM> sorry, I'm new and don't know where to look for nedopc
DM> so share the links ;)
see below
Hello KingOfEvil
It’s still difficult to master with FPGAs
Where can I watch about PENTAGON?
Hello KingOfEvil
I haven’t programmed the controllers myself yet... but it turns out in the alter’s example that I
I take, for example, K555 TM2 and put it in a sheet... that is, having a working circuit, I
Can I “insert” it there thanks to Plisk’s emulation of all the circuits I need?
Hello KingOfEvil
Let's study!
What should you use to prepare the diagram? , I would like Russian documentation.
Hello Vitron
Vit> I haven’t programmed the controllers myself yet... but it turns out in the alter example
Vit> that I take, for example, K555 TM2 and put it in a pleat... that is, having
Vit> working circuit, I can “insert” it there thanks to emulation
Vit> with all the circuits I need?
FPGA allows you to implement both combinational and sequential
machines, in principle, you can even push a ready-made circuit into it. But best of all
develop the circuit specifically for the FPGA, and not vice versa, then the results will be achieved
better results and more economical consumption of FPGA resources.
Hello Vitron
Vit> ... this is very good!
Vit>
Vit> we will study!
Vit>
Vit> What should you use to prepare the diagram? , I would like Russian
Vit> documentation.
There is something on the website www.altera.ru
For initial mastery, it is better to buy some book, for example V.B. Steshenko
"FPGA from Altera". It was written, admittedly, very mediocrely, but for a start
will do.
In general, it’s better to study native documentation, even if it’s in English.
Hello, D-M
DM> with FPGA it is still difficult to master
DM> Where can I watch about PENTAGON?
http://pentagon.nedopc.com
Hello, D-M
DM> I see, thank you very much
DM> then one more question, what if there are three (or four) avras :)
DM> how best to distribute functions and tasks
DM> PS, in principle, the speed does not matter, it would have worked
It makes the most sense to push the logic into the FPGA, and not into the MK, they are for other purposes
intended. See, for example, Pentagon-1024sl 2.x.
Hello KingOfEvil
It depends on which microcontroller. On AT91SAM9261 you can, see project "ZX Yellow
Line Spectrum
http://zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?t=4569
In this case, the need for an FPGA completely disappears!
The entire Spectrum circuit is simulated by AT91SAM9261, and the z80 is one of 5 chips on which
the entire computer is assembled.
Hello andrews
People, let's not stray from the topic!!!
andrews and KingOfEvil thanks for the links
in general my thoughts are:
I want to make a Spectrum not to play toys and listen to music (I can do that
done on a PC), but it is intended rather for learning programming and
circuit engineers
if you make a spec model on ATmege128, a HUGE number of new ones will appear
TK Mega users have already been mastered by many people from different fields of electronics (and I
I'm sure they'll want to try their hand at building Speck)
PS, well, I don’t believe that it’s impossible to build a Spec on ATmege128 with 7 20 MHz ports
frequency, a bunch of peripherals, 128Kb of ROM memory and connectivity
excessively large RAM
ZYY they promise to release ATmega256 soon, let's see what happens there
Hello, D-M
DM> 2Mike
DM> I'm probably not catching up
DM>
This is software emulation, and not a real hardware spec, what’s not clear here?
I have nothing against the idea itself.
Hello, D-M
DM> I had an idea to create a computer on a microcontroller (type
DM> ATmega), but I haven’t seen a single example on the net, in general, who has seen or
DM> did please share information
Everything is great, but, in my opinion, this topic relates to emulators and should be in
the relevant section.
Hello, D-M
DM> well, I don’t believe that it’s impossible to build a Spec on ATmega128 with 7 20 MHz ports
DM> frequency
nevertheless, this is so... in my z80 project, iron is installed, although on
processor from 40 mips with addressable memory of 4 gigabytes and real memory of 4-8
megabytes, it’s easy to emulate... but why waste resources on it?
by connecting to the pins of the microcontroller ports you can make the processor work
z80 in a mode where it does not feel the substitution... after all, if you consider
an arbitrary clone, like z80+ “something”...then it’s “something” maybe. implemented on what
whatever:
1) “rassypuhe” - classic clones;
2) programmatically together with the z80 itself - emulators;
3) FPGA
4) and, finally, a powerful microcontroller... you can simulate this situation
connecting the z80 to the parallel ports of the pussy - it’s like an “emulator inside out,
or an emulator in hardware"
But there is no diagram, because it has not been drawn yet. You can try it yourself
draw if you have a creative impulse. In the study of circuit design this should
good help :)
Hello andrews
PS Look at the internal peripherals of the AT91SAM9261 - everything you need is there
happiness of the "computer builder" and a programmable video controller, and USB (host,
device), and MCI, and SD/MMC support... not to mention traditional COMs,
parallel ports, timers, CPDP (16 channels)...supporting interface
devices and memory on an external bus, JTAG programming and debugging.
Its only drawback at a price < 30 euros is the multi-legged miniature BGA
body You can't solder it with a soldering iron :(
Hello, D-M
2Mike
Everything is great, but, in my opinion, this topic relates to emulators and should be in
the relevant section.
I'm probably missing something
2andrews
I didn’t find the schematics for your spec(((
a small TK emerges
we need to somehow implement the percentage and memory on mega128
use graphic LSD as a display (I saw samples somewhere, I think
tik sent)
parallel port controller, video controller, RS232 implement on another
mega128
and chop up as much Atmel memory as necessary
I don't need anymore
PS I’m actually going to use this in some kind of robot or CNC machine
Hello andrews
and> nevertheless this is so...in my z80 project, iron is installed,
and> although on a processor from 40 mips with addressable memory of 4 gigabytes and
and> with real memory of 4-8 megabytes it is easy to emulate... that's just it
and> why waste resources on this?
and> by connecting to the pins of the microcontroller ports you can make it work
and> z80 processor in a mode where it does not sense substitution...
nooooo, I don’t need that much memory, I need a regular 128k spec clone
and another question: where can I get good literature about ZX circuit design (so
it was written for lamers))
how to learn to understand firmware (well, you need to understand the algorithm))
and has anyone seen a spec model for proteus? (if you have seen it, please provide a link)
Hello Mike
Mik> This is software emulation, not real hardware spec, which is not here
Mik> understandable? I have nothing against the idea itself.
Software emulation of peripherals is not emulation of all hardware because the percentage is real.
By your logic, should FRGA and FPGAs also be called emulators? Then it turns out that
only Soviet clones in loose powder are real, and the original speck with
uloy is an emulator because what's inside this tree, who knows - software
emulation is no different ;)
Hello, D-M
DM> THIS is almost what I need!!!
DM> http://www.nedopc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8476
DM>
DM> 2Shaos
DM> for some reason my soap is banned from your forum
DM> Sorry!!! I really wanted to ask a couple of questions to smart people(((
Write a request directly to Shaos, he will register you on the forum. Banned
soap from public mailboxes, because spammer bots register from there. If
if your soap would be normal (for example, from the office where you work) problems with
no authorization.
Hello andrews
and>
DM> nooo I don't need that much memory I need
DM> and> regular clone of spec 128k
DM> and>
DM>
DM> no one made it in the form of a single chip...
DM> do both an emulator and a board without z80 on a weak microcontroller
DM> makes no sense... but if you want to refute that the sandwich is falling
DM> butter side down...and as soon as a powerful microcontroller appears, it’s stupid not to
DM> use its redundant capabilities
So now, at the moment, is there such a microcontroller?
so that everything at once?
The question of price is question number two....:v2_wink2; (within reasonable limits, obviously..)
Hello andrews
do both an emulator and a board without a z80 on a weak microcontroller
makes no sense... but if you want to refute that the sandwich is falling with butter
down...and as soon as a powerful microcontroller appears, it’s stupid not to use it
redundant capabilities[/QUOTE]
It feels like we are from different planets ;)
tell the idiot what an emulator is?
as it seemed to me before, this is such a program that is installed on a piss computer for
something to cut into ZX-toys
and still explain at least approximately why the ZX-spectrum will not fit into 2 or even 3
ATmegi128, well, of course, other necessary wiring (just not other MKs and any FPGAs
(since I haven’t mastered anything else yet))))
What will it lack in memory, speed or something else?
I gave you the link, did you look?
so I want to play about the same thing just so I can work with him
about the same as with speck
I repeat once again, I don’t need toys to go there and listen to MP3 music, but just
to practice coding a little (PC emulators don’t work) and so that energy
I ate little (since I’m going to use it later in an autonomous robot)
Hello, D-M
THIS is almost what I need!!!
http://www.nedopc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8476
2Shaos
For some reason my soap is banned from your forum
Sorry!!! I really wanted to ask a couple of questions to smart people (((
Hello, D-M
[QUOTE=D-M]nooo I don’t need that much memory, I need a regular clone
speca 128k
[QUOTE]nobody made it in the form of a single microcircuit...
do both an emulator and a board without a z80 on a weak microcontroller
makes no sense... but if you want to refute that the sandwich is falling with butter
down...and as soon as a powerful microcontroller appears, it’s stupid not to use it
redundant capabilities
Hello, D-M
DM> THIS is almost what I need!!!
DM> http://www.nedopc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8476
DM>
DM> 2Shaos
DM> for some reason my soap is banned from your forum
DM> Sorry!!! I really wanted to ask a couple of questions to smart people(((
Register without soap and write to me at shaos dog mail dot ru your nickname and me
I’ll activate you and add real soap to your profile
Hello, D-M
thoughts out loud:
what prevents you from connecting the data bus to one port?
address bus to another
and the control bus to another?
Implement CPU, ROM and RAM on the MK (using a special chip, of course)?
Hello, D-M
DM> thoughts out loud:
DM> what prevents you from connecting the data bus to one port
DM> address bus to another
DM> and the control bus to another?
DM> implement CPU, ROM and RAM on the MK (using a special chip, of course)?
Atmega still doesn’t have enough mips, IMHO
Hello, Mikka_A
Mik> So now, at the moment, is there such a microcontroller? That's all
Mik> immediately?
AT91SAM9261, look at www.efind.ru retail up to 900 rubles. from different
sellers...it has everything at once :)...z80 (any) can be pinned
parallel ports outside...then SAM polls its output ports, for example
address bus, data bus, WR/RD strobes, and others...AND PROGRAMMING at its own
with a speed of 200 mips at 180 MHz, he can afford it; he performs the following roles:
ROM, RAM, I/O ports...simultaneously, in its large system memory
you can trace the executing code, set breakpoints according to
various conditions (including RST n)...perform on-the-fly substitution
code snippets and much more :)
Hello icebear
ice> Can you find out how 200MIPS at 180MHz?
and this is from the Atmel documentation :) I could post a scan from the pdf
Hello andrews
Here is this link
http://www.efind.ru/icsearch/?search=AT91SAM9261
AT91SAM9261-EK is one of the development boards (not the cheapest) min. price in
St. Petersburg 1300 euros, the chip itself
19 euros from Aviton. There are many different boards for the developer of this chip.
prices both below and above 1300, the only question is how to deliver them to St. Petersburg. And
It would be better to make your own right away, because we need the smallest possible volume
external memory, installed z80... and all sorts of bells and whistles can wait. But so that
her price was no more than 150 euros.
Hello Mike
Mik> And it will be a completely hardware processor.
it just needs to be optimized, verified and tested... for verification
often save, and this is, according to experts, up to 90% of the cost of
development...what is the cost of FPGA for 1 piece into which you can fill
maximum ZX Spectrum 128? (let’s leave the cost of developing the technology at
side)... this is me kind of making a topic reversal to “Ready microcontroller” vs “FPGA”
Hello icebear
ice> MIPS will appear if you add a processor there :)
And it will be a completely hardware processor. :)
Hello Shaos
Sha> Software emulation of peripherals is not emulation of all hardware because it’s a percentage
Sha> real. According to your logic, FRGA and FPGAs should also be emulators
Sha> calling names? Then it turns out that only Soviet ones are real
Sha> clones are loose, and the original spec with ula is an emulator because what
Sha> there inside this street, who knows - software emulation is no different ;)
FPGAs and FPGAs do not emulate anything, this is the same programmable bulk, they have
there are no MIPS, there is only the number of logs. elements and maximum operating frequencies.
Hello andrews
and> AND SOFTWARE, with its speed of 200 mips at 180 MHz, it can
and> allow yourself to perform roles
Can you find out how 200MIPS at 180MHz?
Hello Mike
Mik> FPGAs and FPGAs do not emulate anything, this one is the same programmable
Mik> loose, they don’t have MIPS, they only have a number of logs. elements and
Mik> maximum operating frequencies.
MIPS will appear if you add a processor there :)
Hello andrews
and> and this is from the Atmel documentation :) I could post a scan from the pdf
You don't need a scan from the pdf, a direct link to the pdf is better.
Hello andrews
and> only it needs to be optimized, verified and tested...on
and> verifications are often saved, and according to experts this is up to 90%
and> development costs...what is the cost of the FPGA for 1 piece in which
and> can I fill the ZX Spectrum 128 to the maximum? (cost of development
and> let's leave technology aside for now)... this is me kind of making a turn on the topic
and> "Ready microcontroller" vs "FPGA"
For PLS software is usually free, but for automated workstations - oh-oh. It's even on
You can see this in the Devboard example. It costs $1300 just for the software. Although it's all one
once bought.
Mastery is comparable in duration (I think for automated workstations it is even longer, who knows
their poor system of commands - he will understand me).
Thirdly, plis + memory for spec 128 costs the same 19 euros (well, for example EP1C6 + what
the thread is SRAM).
Fourthly, I have big doubts that you will be able to emulate the periphery on ARM,
Well, if it works out, God forbid. Doubts are based on the conveyor structure of the arma and
memory speed.
Well, my opinion is that the Arm itself is interesting and there is no need to slow it down with a deposit,
It's better to write an emulsion.
Hello andrews
and> http://www.keil.com/dd/docs/datashts/atmel/at91sam9261_full.pdf
Interesting. Maybe a typo, like 180 mips at 200 MHz. Somehow I can’t believe it. When
provided that the commands in the workstation are single-cycle (which is not always the case), it would be ideal
180 mips at 180 MHz, and here there are just a bunch of commands per clock cycle.
Hello, CHRV
CHR> Well, my opinion is that the arm itself is interesting and there is no need to add it to it
CHR> slow down, it’s better to write an emulsion.
who prevents you from working in 2 modes? secondly, the z80 is disabled, in the first ARM with
its peripherals work on the z80 instead of a large board and at the same time is
accelerator of slow procedures...and unlike the written emulsion,
connected to z80 ports is 100% error free and ironclad
"emulator" ... this not only simplifies development, but also allows you to enter
interesting modes for debugging and hacking existing code
Hello icebear
ice> You don't need a scan from the pdf, a direct link to the pdf is better.
http://www.keil.com/dd/docs/datashts/atmel/at91sam9261_full.pdf
Hello andrews
and> only it needs to be optimized, verified and tested...on
and> verifications are often saved, and according to experts this is up to 90%
and> development costs...what is the cost of the FPGA for 1 piece in which
and> can I fill the ZX Spectrum 128 to the maximum? (cost of development
and> let's leave technology aside for now)... this is me kind of making a turn on the topic
and> "Ready microcontroller" vs "FPGA"
I don’t think there’s any need to put any processor into the FPGA. In my opinion
everything was done optimally in the sprinter. He would still have AY alive, and ZX-Bus and that’s it
it would be great. Or you can expand the existing ISA8 to ISA16 and
poke all sorts of AWE, GUS, VGA cards, etc. there. This is my view of the issue, but
I don’t support shoving CPUs into FPGAs, MKs, and automated workstations.
Hello andrews
It's a pity
Hello andrews
Can make a motherboard coprocessor on an AVR
Stuff something like a C interpreter into it (with a minimum of libraries in the ROM)
The programmer only needs to fill the procedures into it (in mnemonic code).
And hang this device on any spec.