I propose to compose “Device for cheating a palette.”
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello, All
First of all, the device is ideologically correct :), because him
the absence does not entail incompatibility with the software created for it, you can
match with any domestic clones and some branded specs (where
you can remove digital RGBY) without any massacre, and the device itself can, in principle, be
implemented on a different element base (more convenient on a microcontroller). For
To taxi the device you only need a couple of bits of whatever port.
The device is especially effective in the “16 colors per dot” mode, but no one interferes
use it with normal modes + automatic palette tweaking for
arbitrary areas of the screen without the participation of the processor will bring additional
beauty in familiar coloring.
How it should work (in general terms) -
The device uses bits as input data that encrypt the colors of the output
speck of points, i.e. the same RGBY ones that are removed before the analog binding
(as when connecting digital EGA monitors). Also into the device through ports in
palette values are forced to be placed.
If there are several palettes on the screen, then resp. load as much as needed (according to
specific device addresses). Next, we also configure the device’s temporary
palette change intervals. (synchronization via INT, possibly also via CLK or TI).
Ultimately, the device receives a four-bit code with RGBY, plugs one of16 colors from a preloaded palette (referred to by
pre-programmed interval timer), issuing to your
exhaust registers to which the DACs are connected (in principle, you can have at least 8bit on
channel). Analog R G B signals are already taken from DACs (you can practically
tuck it back onto the board to the analog harness).
This is such a crazy idea :D
Hello fan
And the origin of “delusional ideas” is a video on Far Away? ;)
Just a question from the photo - how many palettes are there and how often do they change? Yes, purely from
mind - even within many familiar lines it happens... You counted,
how much memory was spent on a complete description of the switches, plus the palettes themselves (depending
on the DAC bit depth)? And besides “a couple of bits of which port” you need all the information on
transmit synchronization and colors to the device, and this is already a full-fledged interface
it will work out...
So far the first impression is too cumbersome for such limited people (like
Amiga HAM, only more perverted) possibilities for application.
Hello fan
And the origin of “delusional ideas” is a video on Far Away? ;)
Just a question from the photo - how many palettes are there and how often do they change? Yes, purely from
mind - even within many familiar lines it happens... You counted,
how much memory was spent on a complete description of the switches, plus the palettes themselves (depending
on the DAC bit depth)? And besides “a couple of bits of which port”, you need all the information on
transmit synchronization and colors to the device, and this is already a full-fledged interface
it will work out...
So far the first impression is that it is too cumbersome for such limited capabilities
on application - in fact, just look at the pictures. Something like Amiga
HAM, only more kinky. :D
Hello fan
And the origin of “delusional ideas” is a video on Far Away? ;)
Just a question from the photo - how many palettes are there and how often do they change? Yes, purely from
mind - even within many familiar lines it happens... You counted,
how much memory was spent on a complete description of the switches, plus the palettes themselves (depending
on the DAC bit depth)? And besides “a couple of bits of which port”, you need all the information on
transmit synchronization and colors to the device, and this is already a full-fledged interface
it will work out...
So far the first impression is too cumbersome for such limited people (like
Amiga HAM, only more perverted) possibilities for use - pictures only
watch.
Hello Lethargeek
I didn't understand anything
(although I probably shouldn’t have understood something)
Hello fan
Well, for a 16-color it will probably work, but for a standard one - IMHO the result
insignificant compared to the effort expended. By the way, if it's not planned
dynamically change information on the screen, you can finally get by with one bit for everything
(this will be a command like “start receiving data”), and all the information is preliminarily
read the same RGBY lines - but probably for reliability you’ll have to
strobe reserve... Problems are also possible with non-standard ATM palettes.
2spensor; A; How is the management done there?
Hello fan
fan> Well, what the heck, IMHO it’s some kind of perversion.
It's all perverted ;)
fan> I'm afraid ATM is a different story, it already has its own video modes
fan> There are palettes, only evil developers made them fixed:
Isn't it possible to intercept RGB there? I mean, then on Spekovskaya
everything should work in the standard palette, but if instead of red
If you come across some kind of orange thread, how it will be recognized is unknown...
Or you'll have to add "...for Pentagon-1024SL" to the topic title :p
Hello spensor
Well, for a 16-color it will probably work, but for a standard one - IMHO the result
insignificant compared to the effort expended. By the way, if it's not planned
dynamically change information on the screen, you can finally get by with one bit for everything
(this will be a command like “start receiving data”), and all the information is preliminarily
read the same RGBY lines (filling the screen with service information) - only
Probably for reliability you will have to reserve the strobe... Also with non-standard
ATM palettes may cause problems.
2spensor; A; How is the management done there?
Hello Lethargeek
Let> 2spensor; A; How is the management done there?
I haven’t brought up the archives for a long time, it seems in this particular scheme (but maybe in another)
through the Interface1 ports (#E7,#EF,#F7), as “not taken root with us and, accordingly
hopeless."
Hello fan
If I understand Fan's idea correctly (a device that replaces 8/16 colors in
regular Spectrum with the same 8/16 colors, but from a dynamically changing palette),
then such a scheme has existed for at least 12 years (counting from the moment I
I saw it myself). There was a circuit from VMG, of course we’re not talking about any controller then
I couldn’t walk, it contained about 8 microcircuits. The circuit consisted of RAM
(correspondence between the color code and the color displayed by the diagram), DAC and small things.
The scheme allows you to replace the color code with an arbitrary color from the palette in 4096
flowers.
Hello, DimkaM
Dim> I didn’t understand anything
Dim> (although I probably shouldn’t have understood something)
The device simply replaces the spec colors with its own from the one loaded into it
palettes In this case, processor time is not wasted.
Let> And the origin of the “delusional idea” is a video on Far Away?
No, but close, I somehow suggested adding something to make it normal
displaying multicolors on TFT so that fixed colors are displayed.
Actually SABZh came out of another nonsense that was never implemented :D
Let> Just a question about the photo - how many palettes are there and how often do they change?
One (for 16 colors per dot mode).
Let> So, purely in appearance - even inside many familiar lines
Let> happens...
This is for the 16 colors per dot mode. Nothing valuable about familiarity use
I can’t say because I’m not a fan of it.
Although I remember that the expansion of the familiar place palette exists, that’s just
There are really few colors and they are all fixed. And this device will allow
screw on any colors you like.
Let> You counted how much memory was spent on a complete description of switching
Let> plus the palettes themselves (depending on the bit depth of the DAC)?
Yes, I finally came up with switches at the last moment, and no more than three or fiveI wanted a preposition (i.e. and the screen is divided only vertically). In short this is a question
for discussion, you still have to dance from a really affordable single chip
.
Let> And besides “a couple of bits of whatever port”, you need all the information on synchronization
Let> and send colors to the device, and this is already a full-fledged interface
Let> it will work out...
Okay, one bit for selecting the instruction register, another for selecting the register
data (in principle, you can use one register). Initial synchronization via int
. Interval timer cheats are transferred to a specific clone (unless of course
one palette per screen will not be enough), you can also synchronize via TI (shift
pixels) if you plan to click the palette while drawing the line.
Let> So far, the first impression is too cumbersome for such limited
Let> application possibilities - in fact, just look at the pictures.
Let> Something like Amiga's HAM, only more perverted.
Just right for the 16 colors per dot mode! From a tiny microcontroller (and
box of recaps :D) no one will die ;)
For acquaintances... hmm: I don’t know..., not a fan..., HAM-X is definitely not a big deal
it is necessary, in short, for now this is nothing more than an expansion of the familiar palette.
Hello spensor
spe> If I understood Fan's idea correctly (a device replacing 8/16
spe> colors in a regular Spectrum into the same 8/16 colors, but from dynamic
spe> variable palette),
Yep, that's all right. The main thing is implemented quite simply.
spe> a similar scheme has existed for at least 12 years (counting from the moment
spe> when I saw her myself). There was a diagram from VMG, of course not about which
spe> controller was out of the question then, it contained about 8 microcircuits.
spe> The circuit consisted of RAM (correspondence between color code and color
spe> displayed by the circuit), DAC and small things. The scheme allows you to replace the code
spe> colors to any color from a palette of 4096 colors.
Yes, in principle, implementation on MK is not important, I would even say that it is extremely
It is desirable that the MCA implementation replicates/emulates the hardware-discrete one
option so that you don’t go crazy later when dragging it into the matrix.
Of course, implementation on MK eliminates a lot of hassle, especially if you make a shift
palettes on different parts of the screen (you can also make different scrolling options
palettes) + you don’t need to bother with soldering tons of loose powder or don’t buya cheap matrix for the sake of such a primitive. And MKs are more or less acceptable and
They are quite widespread and have leading cases :)
2sp> Similar question. Tell me all the details you remember.
2sp> IMHO it is extremely necessary to standardize this thing, well, at least for the sake of
2sp> "16 colors per point" because the default palette is extremely terrible...
2sp>
2sp>
Let> Well, for a 16-color it will probably work, but for
Let> 2sp> standard - IMHO the result is insignificant compared to
Let> spent
Let> 2sp> efforts.
Let>
Let> Similar question. Tell me all the details you remember.
Let> IMHO it is absolutely necessary to standardize this thing, well, at least for the sake of
Let> "16 colors per point" because the default palette is extremely terrible...
Let>
Let>
Let> Well, for a 16-color it will probably work, but for
Let> Let> standard - IMHO the result is insignificant compared to
Let> spent
Let> Let> efforts.
Let> Let> I don’t argue, I was pushed only for the sake of “16 colors per point”, but once
Let> for the sake of the old expansion of the familiarity palette (not from VMG) we made a graph
Let> the editor and even wrote a game (something about the Simpsons), this and that
Let> will not be superfluous, well, at least on computers that already have “16 colors
Let> to the point" ;)
Let>
Let>
Let> By the way, if you don’t plan to dynamically change the information
Let> Let> across the screen, you can finally get by with one bit for everything (this
Let> be
Let> Let> is a type of command “start receiving data”), and all the information is preliminary
Let> by topic
Let> Let> read the same RGBY lines (clogging the screen with service information) -
Let> Let> but probably for reliability you will have to reserve the strobe...
Let>
Let> Oh well, what the heck, IMHO it’s some kind of perversion.
Let>
Let> [QUOTE=Lethargeek]Even with non-standard ATM palettes are possible
Let> problems.
I'm afraid ATM is a different story, it already has its own video modes with palettesYes, only evil developers made them fixed:
Hello spensor
spe> - who needs this now.
The most terrible and deadly point!! :v2_scare;
2vsektovkurse:; It's better to finish it you know what ;)
Hello Costa
Cos> And in all modes that are built into specific computers (and color
Cos> to the point everyone is like that) what to do then?
As I understand it, the plus is that the layout of these modes and their ports does not result
depends.
Cos> And then I hook it up, let’s say this device, then suddenly I screw it on
Cos> distant
Cos> and what the spec will look like, a series of continuous video gadgets.
Do not cling / do not screw (optional).
Still, neither one nor the other will become a standard.
Hello fan
fan> Similar question. Tell me all the details you remember.
fan> IMHO it is extremely necessary to standardize this thing, well, at least for the sake of
fan> "16 colors per point" because the default palette is extremely terrible...
If it’s important, I can process the diagram and throw it here, but when is it
I won’t dare to say :(
It cannot become standard anymore for the following reasons:
- didn’t catch on; in the 12 years since its release, no one has supported it (and the scheme
was also widely available as "512 points");
- an attempt to “reinvent the wheel” and throw a device on ports that already existed
used in foreign Spectrums;
- who needs it now?
PS; The only one; the positive aspect of this device (which I really like) is
this is that it allows you to get new features without reworking the software.
Hello Costa
Cos> Fan is truly nonsense and some kind of perversion
Are you a fan of the killer speck palette? (talking about “16 colors per dot”)
Hello Costa
Cos> And if so, then why is it all nada?
Okay, I’m forcing you - If you don’t do it, then I’ll jump out: v2_devil; ,; how
I'll jump out :v2_devil:... :v2_lol; :v2_lol:; :v2_lol;
Cos>; Could
Cos> at least publish the specifications and technical characteristics for
Cos> people
Still in progress.
Cos> the main thing is not to waste yourself on small imperfections
Well, so speck this is one complete flaw ;) That's why we love him :D This
endless scope for creativity or perversion :D
Hello Costa
Cos> In general, technical characteristics should be outlined at the beginning of the project.
They managed to change more than once ;)
Cos> And how many percent of the process has already been completed?
It’s difficult to answer exactly, everything is in process.
Hello Costa
Cos> Not all computers have this mode.
I'm aware ;)
Cos> And then I hook it up, let’s say this device, then suddenly I screw it on
Cos> distant
Cos> and what the spec will look like, a series of continuous video gadgets.
Cos> Somehow it all doesn’t look as it should IMHO.
And who forces you to do this?
Cos> Because it has all sorts of resolutions and palettes
Cos> and could be brought to a single standard
Cos> so that there is no fragmentation.
It will never be a standard, because it is not a fountain, not available (including
brains), there is no option in VHDL (and IMHO it will be less likely), in a closed section
A better video camera is being developed.
Hello Costa
Cos> Far away normal video processor and has everything with it.
What does he have to do with it?
Cos> Moreover, the ideology of the card on it is more correct
Cos> which does not interfere with the standard one in any way
Cos> video output of any spec.
Software written for it will only run on it.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Isn’t it possible to intercept RGB there? I mean, then on Spekovskaya
Let> the standard palette should work, but if instead of red
Let> the color comes across some orange thread, how will it be recognized -
Let> unknown...
Heze, I'm not a fan of ATM.
Let> Or you will have to add "...for Pentagon-1024SL" to the topic title
Well, maybe not only for the Pentagons, maybe also respect (no news for a long time
was :( ).
Hello Lethargeek
spe> If it’s important, I can process the diagram and throw it here, but here
spe> I can’t say when this will happen
Maybe you can send it to my site? (I’ll give you an account for uploading).
spe> It cannot become standard for the following reasons:
spe> - it didn’t catch on; in the 12 years since its release, no one has done it
spe> was not supported (and the scheme was as widely available as “512 points”);
I finally just found out about this scheme today ;) However, I don’t think I would have done it sooner
drew attention to him. But now it's a completely different matter.
spe> - an attempt to “reinvent the wheel” and throw the device on the ports that
spe> have already been used in foreign Spectrums;
Well, of course, the ports will be different (to name the harmless).
spe> PS; The only one; positive aspect of this device (which is very good for me
What I like about spe> is that it allows you to get new opportunities
spe> without modifying the software.
Well, some things will still have to be tightened.
Let> 2 sections of the course: it’s better to finish you know what
Gee:v2_smile;
Let>; Still, neither one nor the other will become a standard.
But it may become the standard for "16 colors per dot".
Hello fan
Cos> Well, let her be (although I don’t know what she’s like
Cos> represents.Could
Cos> at least publish the specifications and technical characteristics for
Cos> people)
Cos> the main thing is not to waste yourself on small imperfections.
Today we can firmly say the following:
1) She definitely won’t be “small” ;)
2) It will definitely be superior to Far Away, not 100% in all respects at once
characteristics, but for most of them, and most importantly - comprehensively
Hello Costa
Cos> Well, let her be (although I don’t know what she’s like
Cos> represents.Could
Cos> at least publish the specifications and technical characteristics for
Cos> people)
Cos> the main thing is not to waste yourself on small imperfections.
Today we can firmly say the following:
1) She definitely won’t be “small” ;)
2) It will definitely be superior to Far Away, not 100% in all respects at once
characteristics, but for most of them, and most importantly - comprehensively
Hello fan
fan> Software written for it will only run on it.
And that’s right. You want to use this software. You stick the card into your computer and
voila you use it.
And in all modes that are specifically built into specific computers (and the color per point
everyone is like that) what to do then? go buy a new computer?
Hello fan
fan> What does he have to do with it?
Because it has all sorts of resolutions and palettes
and it was possible to bring it to a single standard
so that there is no fragmentation.
otherwise if each clone has its own bells and whistles
and the software will be on it and only on it, then there will be even less software
what could have been.
It also really gives a dramatic improvement.
And all these modes are only good for the fact that the drawings are static
look. They (the modes) may be supported, but not improved in any way.
IMHO.
Hello fan
fan> Still in progress.
In general, technical characteristics should be outlined at the beginning of the project.
What percentage of the process has already been completed?
Hello fan
fan> (talking about “16 colors per dot”)
Not all computers have this mode.
And then I hook it up, let’s say this device, then suddenly I fasten the distant one
and what the spec will look like, a series of continuous video bells and whistles.
Somehow it all doesn’t look as it should IMHO.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Do not cling / do not screw (optional).
Let> Still, neither one nor the other will become a standard.
fan> And who forces you to do this?
And if so, then why is it all nada?
fan> in a closed section a better video device is being developed.
Well, let it be (although I don’t know what it is. Could
at least publish the specifications and technical characteristics to the people)
The main thing is not to be scattered into small imperfections.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> 2) It will definitely be superior to Far Away, not 100% in all respects at once
Let> characteristics, but for most of them, and most importantly - comprehensively
Of course I’m intrigued, so let’s wait.
But it is still possible sometimes to notify people about the process, at least briefly.
It’s still interesting, and probably not only to me.
Hello Lethargeek
Fan, it really is some kind of nonsense and perversion: v2_wink2;
Far Away; a normal video processor and has everything with it.
Moreover, the ideology of the card on it is more correct
which does not interfere in any way with the standard
video output of any spec.
Hello fan
In general, at the request of the workers.
File: VMG11.rar http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4597
Hello spensor
spe> In general, at the request of workers.
Now I understand.
Everything is much simpler (meaning the diagram) than I expected.
A very interesting idea.
Hello spensor
spe> In general, at the request of workers.
10X!!!
This manuscript gave me the idea to also use the BORDER signal (which is usually
black) so as not to waste one color on painting it black when it
You can use it for useful things :)
By the way, does anyone know for sure that there is a “second advanced graphics mode”??? (what
there are also “large dots”???)
Hello spensor
fan> If there are several palettes on the screen, then resp. load as much as needed
fan> (at specific device addresses)
Even if the gadget is used to display a static image, what
what will you do if you have to load new palettes for each next one?
familiar place, or even for every pixel? That's why...
spe> ..didn’t catch on, in the 12 years since its release no one has done so
spe> not supported
You can’t fool nature.. Either throw all the processor resources at throwing bytes
palettes, or increase the RAM to the appropriate size :).
Hello, Black_Cat
VMG11 is designed for one palette per screen, although of course no one is stopping you
pervert.
But I don’t think that anyone will want to clone the VMG11, which consumes as many as three ports
.
On MK, all sorts of perversions are available without the participation of the processor, but for familiar place graphics
(any option) is like a saddle for a cow (IMHO). Really useful application (any
option) for the "16 colors per dot" mode.
It is quite enough to distribute palettes only vertically (IMHO), having painted
toolbars/heaven/game part of the screen. However, 16 colors per screen are not enough
Hilo.
Hello, Black_Cat
I agree with the cat.
Delusion of hemorrhagic improvement of already not very interesting video modes
which are absolutely not worth it, you shouldn’t waste your time on such small things.
It’s better to use your creative potential on more interesting and worthwhile solutions.
IMHO of course.
Hello fan
fan> by coloring the toolbars/sky/game part of the screen
i.e. for a static image that will never change, but even in
in this case, and with the use of MK - you still need information for this MK somewhere
store. It turns out - the same eggs, only in profile. Those. everything is the same, but
The MK will throw bytes, and it still needs quite a lot of memory, and even
explain to him where we play and where we leave it as is. Crazy though, for the sake of
several beauties in the corners :confused:
Hello Costa
Bla> i.e. for a static image that will never change
It’s scary to imagine what should change there: v2_lol;
Ha; MSX somehow manages with one palette per game screen/scene.
Bla> even in this case, and with the use of MK - there is still information for this MK
Bla> must be stored somewhere.
Almost any MK capable of pulling off such dregs has enough brains through the roof
(if you don’t paint every cube and make a vague resemblance to HAM mode).
Bla> That is. everything is the same, but the MK will throw bytes, and its memory
Bla> we still have a lot to do, and we also need to explain to him where we are playing and where
Bla> leave as is.
Yeah, it’s just crap how difficult it is for a lousy calculator to calculate for a couple of areas
wind up :v2_lol;
Bla>; It’s crazy, however, for the sake of a few beauties in the corners
And music. resistance I also need to tear the fuck out, it’s a complete mess... :v2_lol;
Cos>; I agree with the cat.
Cos> Delusion of hemorrhagic improvement of already not very interesting video modes
Cos> which are absolutely not worth it, you shouldn’t waste your time on one
Cos> small things.Cos> It’s better to spend your creative potential on more interesting and worthwhile ones
Cos> solutions.
Cos> IMHO of course.
Despite all the threats, you dared not to make a subject? :v2_devil;
For; I will torture you with scary pictures :v2_lol;
File:; USAS-13colors.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4603
File: SolidSnake2.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4604
File: ALESTE2.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4605
Hello fan
fan> For this I will torture you with scary pictures
Yes, the pictures are gorgeous, no doubt about it.
But you can’t build demos and games more serious than tic-tac-toe with this
even with such a multi-colored screen because the brakes are guaranteed.
And about MSX, the video processor is there for these things.
It’s not entirely clear why to do this pseudo improvement now if immediately
you can make a normal video camera with the same color modes and also
fast?
I'm not against developments, but if we do something more drastic
than cosmetic improvements that don’t do much at all.
It’s the same as increasing memory by 1 kilobyte! :v2_tong2:
Hello fan
fan> You definitely haven't seen Pang , Time Gall , Ball Quest under "16 colors
fan> to the point" (well, on ATM there is Prince of Persia, Gobliiins and more
fan> something, I don’t remember... ).
I saw that there are few sprites and the brakes are already showing up, there’s no talk of framing at all.
fan> Those who love "16 colors per dot" won't be scared by soprams :D , but
fan> the device will only enhance warm feelings :v2_smile;
U; support also has a point on color and palettes and much more.
By the way, ATM also has its own half-liter.
:v2_smile:
Hello Costa
Cos> But you can’t build demos and games more serious than tic-tac-toe with
Cos> with such a screen, even with such colorful colors because it’s slow
Cos> are provided.
You definitely haven't seen Pang, Time Gall, Ball Quest under "16 colors per point"
(well, on ATM there is Prince of Persia, Gobliiins and something else, I don’t remember...).
Cos> And about MSX, the video processor is there for these things.
For most cases (especially for the first two shots) it is needed, because at
the first bricks did not have horizontal scrolling (and the vast majority of games
MSX is made to resemble ancient bricks)! And most games play just as stupidly as in
Spectrum - either the screens change completely (ala dizi), or it is used
familiarity scroll. In short, there is a special reason to cry a lot over the “coolness” of the MSX
no .
Cos> It’s not entirely clear why to do this pseudo improvement now if
Cos> immediately
Cos> you can make a normal video camera with the same color modes and
Cos> also fast?
I say again - the absence of a device does not affect compatibility with the software. Then
what has been done with the support of the device can still be seen in the absence
thereof. To support the device, you don’t need to make any extra effort (throw it in frontten bytes of scene/screen display is not the end of the world). Doesn't disappear
the so-called style of working with graphics, about which coders cried so much
when there is a threat to connect the video sopra.
In short, the device is an extension of the extension (because it is really useful only for
“16 colors per dot”), and not something new, super natural, so that it’s like that
treat . Those who love “16 colors per dot” won’t be scared by soprams :D, but
the device will only enhance warm feelings :v2_smile:
Hello, Black_Cat
Bla> we need to evaluate the effectiveness of options. Can you make such an assessment?
Scratch-scratch!! :v2_lol:
Hello fan
fan> On MSX they somehow manage with one palette per game screen / scene.
Then there is no need for MK.
fan> for a couple of areas the lousy counter will screw up
Yes, it can be done, who can argue? :) It's just not the only additional option
palettes. In such improvements, the ratio between iron hemorrhage and benefits is important
from its use, both qualitative and quantitative (after all, toys
will have to be redone, and here a critical mass of such games is important so that the process
received autodevelopment). Those. an assessment of the effectiveness of options is needed. You can
make such an assessment?
Hello fan
fan> Yeah, I already heard the rustling of the spherical hooves flying above us
fan> horses :v2_lol;
fan>; Poor users of ATM and other exotics, they just need to get out
fan> all your computers (including turbo sounds and video controllers) in one
fan> a bunch and make a pioneer fire, because according to the effectiveness of BC
fan> they are a worthless collection of microcircuits that do not have the right to embodiment
fan> :v2_lol;
By; there was a scratch for another reason, but why Lethargic threw it at you - I
no idea!!! :v2_wink2:
Hello Lethargeek
Cos> I saw. There are few sprites and the brakes are already showing up about frameability in general
Cos> no speech.
Yeah, you don’t like Spectrum: v2_devil; Well; everything... :v2_devil; :v2_lol:;
Cos> Supports also have a point on color and palettes and much more.
But programming these early things, in fact, programmers did not like it.
About ATM, I know, the device will just fill this gap in the “16 colors” graphics
to a point" and will even partially exceed , because palettes will not be fixed.
Let> Scratch-scratch!!
Yeah, I could already hear the rustle of the hooves of the spherical horses flying above us
:v2_lol;
Poor; users of ATM and other exotics, they just need to dump all their
computers (including turbo sounds and video controllers) into one pile and arrange
pioneer fire, because according to the effectiveness of BC they are a worthless bunch
microcircuits that do not have the right to be implemented :v2_lol:
Hello icebear
He didn't throw it at me, I just commented. Because with delusional scientific approaches
When calculating efficiency, you can first of all reach the point that the spec itself
needed :v2_lol:
Hello, Black_Cat
By the way, I could have found better pictures (the same Metal Mutant, and generally better
I would dig Atari ST, not MSuX).
Hello fan
fan> it is possible for the first time to use nonsense-scientific approaches to calculating efficiency
fan> turn to get to the point where the spec itself is needed
I in no way intended to infringe on your conclusions, I was just interested
Are there any other options you are considering, or was this the only one?
Hello fan
fan> And by the way, it’s the same on ST, especially since the resolution there is not the same: . Metal
fan> Mutant is available on both Pytsy and Amiga, but the resolution is 320x200:
What?! In ATM the 16-color mode is exactly 320x200, should it be the same on the Pentagon?
Hello fan
fan> And by the way, it’s the same on ST, especially since the resolution there is not the same: . Metal
fan> Mutant is available on both Pytsy and Amiga, but the resolution is 320x200:
What?! In ATM, the 16-color mode is exactly 320x200, isn’t that the case at the Pentagon?
:v2_conf3;
Like; Is the 16-color mode ripped off from ATM there and considered “compatible”?
Hello Lethargeek
Let> In ATM, the 16-color mode is exactly 320x200
But the palettes are fixed, so you won’t be able to make them look just as beautiful (of course this is
not fatal), because the palette represents almost one gradation of one
colors (on the menu these are shades of blue, in the game they are shades of green).
This is actually the main advantage of the device.
Let> Isn't it the Pentagon?
Alas, no. "16 colors per dot" was obtained without a clever modification of Hardware
Multicolor (Attribute per byte), normal Spectrum resolution (and the lines go
the same) + more pixels on the left and right are chewed off (due to the peculiarity
alterations). The rest is the same as ATM.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> By the way, I could have found better pictures (the same Metal Mutant, and
Let> in general it would be better to dig Atari ST, not MSuX).
I was looking for something that was more or less suitable in terms of resolution and scrolling didn’t work. And on MSX
it’s hard to find something normal ;) And on ST, by the way, it’s the same, especially since there
the resolution is not right: . Metal Mutant is available on both Pytsy and Amiga, but the resolution
320x200: There is also Flash Back but the picture is 256x224 (24 colors) and cut off
there is practically nothing, the entire screen is used :(
Bla> or was this the only one?
What else could they possibly be???
Only one option corresponds to SABZH, the subtleties of implementation are not important
. Everything different from SABZH is another topic.
Hello fan
fan> Alas, no... The rest is the same as ATM.
“The rest” - what could it be? Curve "attribute" pixel layout
pairs in a byte, or what? "Compatibility", damn it. :v2_sick;
How; always, everything turned out to be “as always” :)
Hello Lethargeek
fan> But the palettes are fixed, so you won’t be able to create them beautifully
fan> (of course this is not fatal), because the palette represents practically
fan> one gradation of one color (on the menu these are shades of blue, in the game
fan> shades of green).
I don’t understand anything... is there at least somewhere to get the required four bits from the board?
fan> Alas, no... The rest is the same as ATM.
“The rest” - what could it be? Curve "attribute" pixel layout
pairs in a byte, or what? "Compatibility", damn it. :v2_sick;
How; always, everything turned out to be “as always” :)
Hello fan
“As always, everything turned out to be “as always””
2Lethargeek - kill it! ...
Any hardware requires software support...
And you need to do it yourself... Therefore, absolutely
There is no point in discussing “all kinds” of proposals.
Hello ASDT
ASD> Any hardware requires software support...
ASD> And you need to do it yourself... Therefore, absolutely
ASD> there is no point in discussing “all sorts” of proposals.
Yeah, I don’t know what to do first, and even write some software so that later
They’ll find out that no one really needs this, because it’s expensive/can’t be obtained/can’t be obtained
collectable/there are better ones :D
===================================================================================
===================================================================================
According to the subject.
Below are a couple of screenshots of the degradation of the image/scene under spec colors (exactly so
it looks like on ATM -
http://atmturbo.nedopc.com/download/cpm/games/goblins/scrsh/gob_scr.htm).
Actually, you can see how the gradation of purple is replaced by a couple of shades of blue and
black It turns out quite usable for both options.
File: Gobliiins-InGame-PC.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4630
File: Gobliiins-InGame-PC-ZX-Pal.gif
http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4631
File: Gobliiins-InGame-PC-ZX-Pal2.gif
http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4632
Hello Lethargeek
Let> I don’t understand anything... is there at least somewhere to get the required four bits from the board?
Of course, no one is stopping you from doing this, but then you’ll have to somehow commute
old/new analog R G B . It’s easier then to rip out some of the old guts and
make the device emulate the old loose powder, and with a special switch
work in extended mode (with up to 8 bits per channel).
Let> The rest" - what could it be? Curve "attribute" layout
Let> pixel pair in a byte, or what? "Compatibility", damn it.
The byte layout is similar, the byte sequence is similar, the lines are interleaved
like on a spec (if I don't drive :D).
As I understand it, no one was chasing “compatibility”, it just happened.
Let> As always, everything turned out to be “as always”
Well, so the remake is from the same category of pop (like the other modes). Without
It took a lot of effort to color each dot.
Hello fan
fan> expensive/not available/not collected/there are better ones
In short, the device will work if it is cheap/simple/convenient (to assemble and
control) and not more powerful than Speck himself... ;) because it doesn’t matter. Would you really guess
parameters - with the minimum possible monstrosity of the device and with the maximum.
fan> Below are a couple of screenshots of the degradation of the picture/scene under speck colors
The pictures are really terrible, it’s better to use Floyd first (closed in color pairs,
so as not to ripple), then clean it up with your hands. Yes, but with a deep half liter :) it will be
better.
Hello fan
fan> expensive/not available/not collected/there are better ones
In short, the device will work if it is cheap/simple/convenient (in every sense) and
no more powerful than Speck himself... ;) because it doesn't matter. Would you really estimate the parameters - s
with minimal monstrosity and maximum.
fan> It turns out quite usable for both options.
The pictures are terrible, it’s better to use Floyd first (closed in color pairs, so as not to
rippled), then clean it up with your hands. Yes, but it will be better with a deep palette.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> In short, the device will work if it is cheap/simple/convenient (assembled
Let> and control) and not more powerful than Speck himself... because it doesn’t matter.
Gee :D Goodbye vidya ;)
Let> You really should estimate the parameters - with the minimum possible
Let> the monstrousness of the device and with maximum.
With the minimum it’s practically VMG11, but I really want 8bit per channel
because he doesn’t ask for food and there’s no need to worry about tweaking the palette
(and of course without any inverse bits that appeared due to the features
designs). At most, it’s even scary to imagine, because you can end up
attaching your palette to every familiarity and every sprite%) (Why do I
this reminds me of Spec256 :D) and this cheater will use black Finnish ones
processors: v2_lol;
But; Neither one nor the other makes sense unless someone really needs it. Bye
It looks like this is more unnecessary than needed. Probably just the overwhelming
Most people simply don’t have the “16 colors per point” mode on their computers.
Let> The pictures are really terrible, it’s better to use Floyd first (closed to
Let> color pairs so as not to ripple), then clean them up with your hands. Ess-but with
Let> half a liter will be better.Well, this is just an example of the so-called backward compatibility, and by the way
EGA looks almost the same. It looks like the developers decided not to worry and
They just screwed up the palette for the same backward compatibility.
Hello fan
fan> Gee :D Goodbye vidyukha ;)
Vidyukha has slightly different ;) capabilities and tasks than replacing color with
varying degrees of stupidity. :) By the way, how do you define “computational
power" of the video? How is the weakest sufficient FPGA?
fan> So far it looks like this is more unnecessary than needed. Probably just u
fan> the vast majority of people simply do not exist on computers in mode "16
fan> colors per point."
What if KoE is put into some Pentagon-v3.x thread if it is “easily implementable”,
bug :D
Let> ...on color pairs so as not to ripple
Flower rows, damn it :p
Hello Lethargeek
Let> The video camera has slightly different capabilities and tasks than color substitution
Let> with varying degrees of stupidity.
Ugh, I just had the wrong associations (I thought I was talking about video games)%)
Let> By the way, how do you define the “computing power” of a video card?
He asked me what %) Well, of course, in parrots :D That is. look at the efforts of the speck and
on the results of video games obtained with little blood.
Hmm, it turns out very powerfully, even for the subject: v2_lol; Will come; him
ban :v2_lol;
Let>; What is the weakest sufficient FPGA?
I didn't understand the question :(
Let> What if KoE is put into some Pentagon-v3.x thread, if it’s “easy
Let> realizable", bugaga
Well, he already stuck it in anyway.
> 10. Types of video modes EEEEE. standard ZX-screen, 16
> COLOUR (
> ZX screen, each point is drawn in its own color), ZX-
> screen without border (
> resolution 384 x
> 304)
I have suspicions that many people don’t know about this either, and probably don’t know
that in the classic Pentagon128 the “16 colors per point” mode is extremely implemented
simple (I’ll post a link later if anyone needs it).
Hello fan
fan> I didn’t understand the question
Well, let's see - you can put a VK in this pleat (without video memory), but in that one
Nizya (won’t fit or will slow down terribly). And then similarly with Spec - in
this pleasing can be put in the entire Spec (together with a turbocharged Z80, but without RAM),
and in that one - you won’t get it anymore.
And compare the results. For the purity of the experiment, do not take into account the number of legs. ;)
Because it is the computing power that interests us.
fan> Well, he already stuck it in anyway.
Again, “the wrong associations have arisen,” I’m talking about cheating the palette.
fan> that in the classic Pentagon128 the “16 colors per point” mode will be implemented
fan> extremely simple
As I understand it, the main thing is that there are two memory lines.
Hello fan
fan> I didn’t understand the question
Well, let's see - you can put a VK in this pleat (without video memory), but in that one
Nizya (won’t fit or will slow down terribly). And then similarly with Spec - in
this pleasing can be put in the entire Spec (together with a turbocharged Z80, but without RAM),
and in that one - you won’t get it anymore. And compare the results.
For the purity of the experiment, do not take into account the number of legs. ;)
Because it is the computing power that interests us.
fan> Well, he already stuck it in anyway.
Again, “the wrong associations have arisen,” I’m talking about cheating the palette.
fan> that in the classic Pentagon128 the “16 colors per point” mode will be implemented
fan> extremely simple
As I understand it, the main thing is that there are two memory lines.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Well, let's see - you can put a VK in this pleat (without video memory),
Let> but that one is already too small (it won’t fit or it will slow down terribly). And then
Let> similarly with Spec - you can put the entire Spec into this pleat (together
Let> with a turbocharged Z80, but without RAM), but in that one you can’t get enough.
Let> And compare the results. For the purity of the experiment, the number of legs is not
Let> take into account.
Let> Because it is the computing power that interests us.
Somehow I don’t understand why such confusion is needed. Nowadays it is important to measure everything in
green parrots (aka murdered presidents). It turns out that everyone is better off anyway
stuff everything into a mitrice at once for ~10 (like a cyclone thread) + price
boards
In general, I think such calculations are not relevant, external (not monstrous)
implementation will still only be on MK, but for modern affordable matrices
The subject (within reasonable limits) is not a problem, besides for cutting the screen
You can use the counters of the spec itself without having to worry about synchronization. Just four
comparator + four registers for cheating them, will allow you to cut the screen to 16
palette zones ((i.e. 8bit address bus (4bit-RGBY + 4bit-c_comparators (so
It’s more convenient to push data)). But I’m not sure that so many palettes are neededzones ;)
Let> As I understand it, the main thing is to have two memory lines.
Nope. The Pentagon has transparent access.
Unfortunately, according to that description from AlCo
(http://www.fido-online.com/x/_-0?Msg?pbhqpo&992&9817&, as well as in INFERNO8),
it is impossible to understand without tinkering with the diagram how it specifically works (and your
I still can’t open the manuscript).
Hello fan
fan> but with little blood
I even already guessed from which part of the intestine this little blood is oozing ;)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> then questions like “is that all it can do?”
What else should she do :D Just such a question will arise in the absence of a subject and
presence of "16 colors per point".
For example, I had the following question regarding ATM: D - 2 bits per channel =
64 terrible colors - “is that all it can do?” :v2_lol; (joke);
Let> and if we start adding something, we’ll come you know where
But what can we add, this thing can be said to be the most natural and
harmless addition, the screen cutter into palette zones can be thrown out (although
doesn’t ask for food), fortunately in his absence everything will look normal
(more precisely, “backwards compatible” will look like %)).
Let> the other extreme is to slide into the trash heap of small tchotchkes running over
Let> each other on all ports...
Hmm, connecting to the port in the way I described above is clearly rotten, on the screen there will be
special effects, the clock will flatten (if anyone has one), and you can wind it with bits
bytes, byte registers are not at all useful.
But there is a shamanic approach used in TS earlier, you need to get hooked on
another mikruhe in a similar way. When shamanically addressing a non-existent
register of mikruha - we chop up this very mikruha and chop up our own. IMHO it's simpleit was congenially invented. Moreover, this is extremely important for the subject, because
there will be at least a dozen registers for cheating :D (I’m still torturing a parody of the scheme %))
If you do “curly” cutting of the screen (i.e. if you also cut horizontally),
then you will also have to set the initial value from the beginning of the line...
Let> if you open it, let me know, I’m just curious (including how it works on the turbo
Let> affects)
Let> after all, in any case, you have to pull twice as hard with the scanner, you can’t get anywhere
Yes, you don’t even need to dig here, while the spec screen is displayed (256x192) percent
they just unhook from the tire :D
There's nothing you can do about it, production costs :D, but it's a little costly ;)
Hello Lethargeek
Well, I shot the pianist :D And he almost hit the notes :D
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Never mind, we’ll get our piano out of the bushes right now!!
Well, I poured salt on the sugar, now I’ll rack my brains like a subject on a piano
stick it in :D Although, in principle, it’s enough to pull one wire out, which
will cut music resistance, but this is not the final version yet.
By the way, I tormented FLASH BACK, the backdrop in the Amiga and pisish versions (and I believe in
prefixes the same) 16 color. Sprats are also different in different versions
different number of shades. In the Amiga version there are fewer of them, which is very
good :D (I didn’t look at prefixes hese). Sprites are fine
paint in the colors of the backdrop. In fact, the screens can easily be remade to suit
256x192 by simple cutting, just some need to be cut off only on top, and
some, depending on where the cupcake is hanging around, either from below or from above.
Let's say at the very beginning (screen down) where the video cube lies, the screen is needed
cut from below, and when it gets to the same screen the other way (to the bottom
part), then cut off the top.
File: BC2000ZX.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4662
File: FBZX.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4661
File: GobliiinsZX.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4663
File: DarkSeedZX.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4665
File: LiIIZX.gif http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4666
Hello fan
fan> in the Amiga and pisish versions (and the same is true in prefixes) 16
fan> color
In the Amiga, there are two bitplanes even under the very rear ;) they gave away the backdrop.
fan> some need to be cut off only at the top, and some, depending
fan> from where the cupcake hangs out, either below or above
And from the side? For games like flashback, maybe it’s easier to shrink the tiles by 4/5?
Although there is more fuss, yes.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> And on the side?
And there is no need to cut from the side, the width is suitable (256).
If the appearance of a pretzel on the screen was meant, then depending on the circumstances, usually
Only the top is cut. But for example, on the first level, when you leave the screen where
there is a first battery charger, on the next screen we cut either the top (if we go
bottom) or bottom (if we go top).
By the way, on SEGA MD/GENESIS sprites have the same number of shades as on
AMIGA (only enemies are different), on SNES and ATARI JAGUAR sprites as on
peeps. Backdrops are available in 16 colors everywhere.
Let> For games like flashback, is it easier to shrink the tiles by 4/5?
Let> Although there is more fuss, yes.
Yes, you can squeeze anything, but lo-res is not a suitable candidate for
similar action. Even if the picture doesn't look very sickening,
then the tiles will definitely “go” and their number will increase somewhat ;) And also the map
There will definitely be no collisions among strangers. In general, this will be brought to mind
It’s definitely a complete mess, then it’s easier to stretch the speck screen to 256x224: D