Help!!! The Pentagon is dead :(
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello, All
Here it is :confused:
First I turned it on - everything was ok. Then I turned it off, wiped everything off with alcohol, and :(...
On the screen (with YM, ROM and VG pulled out of the cribs) there is such a picture.
When you click on reset, the whole picture shifts one familiar place to the right and left.
And the board looks like this, if anyone is interested...
Pama-a-gite people are kind-and-and-and!!!!!
File: dead.jpg http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=2115
File: plataa.jpg http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=2116
Hello Surfin' Bird
Oh my! You can't understand a computer with your mind.
He pulled it out, wiped all the little things that he could get, and put it back
- still the same bullshit...
I blew on the board from different angles;)
I touched all sorts of wiring...
Same bullshit!
In a fit of psychotic madness, he began to turn off the power and
hysterically poking reset...
And it worked, motherfucker!!!
What the hell is this?!? I didn’t do anything!?!?
Now I'm afraid to turn it off...
Hello Surfin' Bird
and you do a shamanic dance over it and turn it off :)
By the way, what kind of Pentagon do you have, I’ve never seen such a board before
Hello,geners
gen> and you dance a shamanic dance over it and turn it off :)
Well, this is the only way I know of to repair complex electronic
equipment ;)
2Conan - Yes, I know. Research just told me that this is "777" - this is a certain
"pentagon" with a slightly different scheme. Although maybe he didn't say anything at all
this is what I understand :rolleyes:
Tell me something about this clone! And this is, for example, the first time I’ve heard about him.
microcircuits
The fallen conductors are nowhere to be seen...
Right now I act like this: it doesn’t start - I turn it off, move the board, turn it on... etc.
until it starts... In short, if you don’t touch the board, everything is ok. It's a pity she didn't
fixed and when carrying the computer it moves :(
By the way, please explain to me exactly the term “snot”, otherwise it seems that I have
a vague idea of this invariable attribute of the domestic
spektrumizma :)
2Mick - Pah-pah-pah, nothing seems to have come off of me. Otherwise it’s scary
solder microcircuits.
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> Well, this is the only way I know to repair complex electronics
Sur> equipment ;)
Sur> ... And often the most effective :cool:
Sur>
Sur> The fallen off conductors are nowhere to be seen...
Sur> Right now I act like this: it doesn’t start - turn it off, move the board,
Sur> include... etc. until it starts... In short, if you don’t touch the board
Sur> - everything is ok. It’s a pity, it’s not secured and when you carry the computer it moves
Sur> :(
Sur>
Over time, microcracks may appear in old, poor quality boards.
paths, it is almost impossible to detect them.
I had such a scorpion board.
Hello Surfin' Bird
to Surfin' Bird
With such malfunctions, it’s better to let him die than suffer: v2_mad: believe me
experience. Imagine: sitting at the computer, not touching anyone, just tapping on the keys
stuffing something on the second (3,4,5...) page, and this infection for no reason at all,
RRRAZZZZ, and the mattress on the screen :mad: ... And it’s good if you get it after the fifth
RRRAZZZ You’ll just punch it with your fist, but if you completely abandon it and replace it
some thread of wretched PeeCee and Piggy? :( the spec community doesn’t have such a loss
will transfer....
If you touch (bend) carefully, nothing will burn, at least
press the microcircuit housing with your finger while it is on, in 90% of cases
allows you to find the break point more accurately.
Via holes are holes on the board with metallization for connection
conductors of the upper and lower layers of the board. Judging by the appearance of the board, its quality
performance is “so-so”, accordingly, mellalization could not have been performed
qualitatively and over time, contact can be broken
Hello Surfin' Bird
to Surfin' Bird....
try gently bending the board with your hands while it is turned on, if there is a problem
on the board, the spec will be reset. By the way, it may also be a low-quality socket
under ROM and processor...
In any case, it is better to make this fault "stable"
it's easier to search...
PS If I were you, I would solder all the vias....
Hello, do_se
About "snot". At first glance, no such thing was noticed. And get the payment and
I'm afraid to consider the board:| Everything is connected there and soldered, and if something
comes off - I just won’t know what to do :( That’s when he’ll be next to me
sit there, cheerful ironworker, then you can be brave :D
Con> Number of lines: 312, which in combination with 216 measures per line would give
Con> 67392 cycles per screen, but WAIT is used (according to the scheme),
Con> with extension of M1 cycles.
Hmmm. What does all this mean? What kind of trouble does this mean for me, a simple person?
to the user?
do_> to Surfin' Bird....
do_> try to gently bend the board with your hands while it’s on, if
do_> the problem is in the board, the spec will be reset. By the way, it might be
do_> low-quality socket for ROM and processor...
Wow! I'll turn gray if I do that :eek:
It’s not dangerous (for a computer, obviously) to take a working board with your hands?!? What if I
Am I shorting something there?
And if I “bend”, and instead of just folding, he takes it and
will it burn?
Or is it safe?
do_> In any case, it is better to make this malfunction
do_> “stable” it’s easier to search for....
Well, if you don’t move the board, but only move the connected wires, nothing
nothing terrible happens.
There's some wiring soldered down on the board... It's dangling on the verge of tearing off...Maybe it's because of him?
Evgeniy told me that such garbage can happen if with “Power-ON”
the left address of the ROM start is supplied (he said - zero should be supplied)... Again
Well, I could have misunderstood. I'll ask him to look here.
do_> PS If I were you, I would solder all the vias....
What are these?
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> Hmmm. What does all this mean? What troubles does this bring me -
Sur> to a simple user?
Sur>
Roughly speaking, nothing bad will happen, just demos where curbs are used
effects, instead of them there will be porridge, there is an effect but it is shifted like a “ladder”. So I
I haven’t fully figured out the counters yet and have never been able to fix this glitch... :(
:( , but the machine is good, I even have 1 meg of memory on it, until now
works, but the ROM needs to be flashed immediately, I'm sick of this piece of code with
printer, but then I seem to have re-fetched the ROM page and everything worked like
watch.....
Hello, do_se
This is normal for fifteen year old boards. The resource is not infinite, but the board is varnished
no one covered.
Nemo wrote about this well, but people still stubbornly take everything from the trash heap,
unaware that restoring such boards is very difficult and
painstaking work (this is actually one of the reasons why I rarely agree
repair boards older than 95).
Moreover, the quality of especially Moscow and St. Petersburg boards is very bad...
Not all of them, of course, but the vast majority!
Hello, CHRV
2SHELTEM: What's wrong with this piece of code? Well stitched and stitched, it “is not
asks"?
2do_se: "With such malfunctions, it’s better to let him die than suffer, believe me
experience. Imagine: sitting at the computer, not touching anyone, just tapping on the keys
stuffing something on the second (3,4,5...) page, and this infection for no reason at all,
RRRAZZZZ, and the mattress on the screen... And it’s good if you get it after the fifth RRRAZZZZ
You’ll just hit it with your fist, but if you completely abandon it and replace some thread
poor PeeCee and Piggy? The spec community will not endure such a loss...."
Well... To be honest, I can’t type anything yet - the keyboard is soooo
finished off, in order to press another key you have to press on it, sticking out your tongue. And even if
and would fill - I have a paranoid habit - to save every
minute;)
In addition - here the monique is standing on the system unit - sometimes it breaks into interference,
until you knock. And then I knock (tangibly) - the whole computer shakes, and not
is reset!;) What I mean is that even now it can be used as
demo player, music player, and slot machine (don't even throw coins
necessary :)).
And to WORK on the Spectrum, IMHO you need a MINIMUM - HDD, CD-ROM, mouse and
normal keyboard. And this guy doesn’t expand :( That is, maybe with wiring and
You can solder everything, but you don’t want to torment the poor guy with anything.I'm thinking - maybe I should just secure the board firmly in the case? Glue to the bottom
mugs made of cork, put a board on them, and screw them on with small ones like this
screws? Will it be okay?
2CHRV: "...but people still stubbornly take everything from the trash heap..."
;) Well, I haven’t saved up for ATM yet;)
In general, it seems disgusting to me that it works (even with glitches)
Throw the car in the trash! Betrayal. Let there be better music
plays!
Listen! Can someone explain to me what “board resource” means? Well, no shit
I’m not catching up - there is a board - foil glued to PCB. Foil -
metal, textolite - also not sugar. So how the hell can she
spoil if you don’t kick it (and who kicks computers?!?) and don’t
spill acid (similarly), even if a hundred years have passed??? Don't evaporate
guides!
I’ll buy an ATM from Roma tomorrow, for some magical reason in 100 years
it won't work???
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> Tomorrow I’ll buy an ATM from Roma, for some magical reason
Sur> in 100 years it will not work???
For the fact that it won’t be possible to give a guarantee :)
Although if the computer is located in a room with a constant temperature and zero
humidity, all the kanders inside are ceramic...
And I know absolutely nothing about the duration of information storage in
FLASH/PROM/HDD.
(CD/FDD discs are guaranteed to be unreadable after 100 years of storage in
apartment conditions)
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> Why??? Separately, if possible, for each point :rolleyes:
FDDs are demagnetized, and the CD surface loses its optical properties
Hello, vasstr
vas> (CD/FDD discs are guaranteed to be unreadable after 100 years of storage
vas> in apartment conditions)
Why??? Separately, if possible, for each point :rolleyes:
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> Why??? Separately, if possible, for each point :rolleyes:
I have a CD that is about 10-12 years old and is still being read :).
I don’t know about CDR and CDRW.
Hello Conan
Gentlemen, let's not force my spec (by the way, there is Michel's payment from
virtualgroup)!
Everything is very simple, it is 12 years old, I worked on it in hot and cold weather
(negative temperatures, it took about 10 minutes to warm up), and there
Most likely the electrolytes on the power supply have simply dried out.
Kirill - measure +5 volts. The computer doesn't like it when it's less than 4.9, that's all.
I already know my hardware...
Hello, research
The roads on the board are normal, they do not fall off as the speaker wrote above (I had
2 such boards). Over the entire period of use (12 years), I replaced the drive with
robotron (superflop, I’m dreaming now), VG-shki burned many times due to
lousy tube TVs and breakdowns in them. And one day I lost my food -
replaced two ru-5. That's the whole epic. The native keyboard really fell apart -
The coating on the cable has worn off due to age, which is why it has 40 buttons.
And AIgrik is a fairy tale. I didn’t connect anything to it (to its I/O ports)...
Hello jdigreze
jdi> But, as practice has shown, if the disc is recorded at a higher speed
jdi> 16x, then 50% will no longer be read normally in a year or two..
I've been cutting CDs with a CD cutter for about 4 years now and I haven't seen any problems and the speed has never been the same.
controlled, always max...
Damn, why am I drawn to flaming today :mad:
Hello Surfin' Bird
Sur> what does "board resource" mean? Well, I’m not getting a damn thing - there’s a fee
Sur> - foil glued to PCB. Foil - metal, textolite -
Sur> is also not sugar. So how the hell can it go bad if it’s not
Sur> kick (and who kicks computers?!?) and don’t spill
Sur> acid (similarly), even if a hundred years have passed??? Don't evaporate
Sur> conductors!
Let's take a closer look. First, a little about the material itself for manufacturing
plat.
The most common was foil fiberglass. What is this?
First, about the base. Fiberglass is a composite material, that is, it contains
a combination of two different ones is used: fiberglass as a reinforcing base and
epoxy resin as impregnation. For example, the most common material for
printed circuit boards, foil fiberglass FR4, 1.6 mm thick, consists of 8
layers of fiberglass impregnated with epoxy resin. Fiberglass improves
dielectric properties of the boards and gives them additional strength. In addition
fiberglass is more thermally and chemically stable than epoxy resin.
It is glued onto this base on one or both sides (using the same
epoxy resin) copper foil. Its thickness is usually 20-100 microns(0.02-0.1 mm).
In this form, foil-coated fiberglass laminate is supplied to board manufacturers.
Since the epoxy and phenolic resins included in the base are complex
organic compounds, they can decompose and change their properties, under
environmental influences. Therefore, manufacturers standardize some
characteristics of the material for the warranty period:
* Surface and volumetric electrical resistivity after
humidity conditioning
* Dielectric loss tangent and dielectric constant after
humidity conditioning
*Foil peel strength
* Time of resistance to thermal shock at 260`C
* And some others.
But this is where all the lyrics end and real life and transformation begin
this wonderful material into our favorite board for Speccy. But there were realities
are as follows: the material seems durable, and the storekeepers were thinking, what’s wrong with it?
will be, and they put it for storage in an unheated box. There's his packaging
(usually packages of N-sheets were wrapped in packaging cardboard) rats gnawed, well
and of course they relieved themselves, and temperature changes and dampness weren’t good either
They walked because the edges of the sheets were quite open.
Next, they took the sheets from the warehouse and dragged them to cutting. They were usually cut with a guillotine, and
Since the sheets are heavy, scratches were easily placed on the foil. Yes andwho cared? These scratches didn’t give a damn to the workers, they didn’t affect their salaries,
and there wasn’t much control, so unless the cutting was obviously screwed up, then so be it
will do.
Then the cut pieces were sent for drilling. And they were usually drilled by machines,
Victory drills. Everything would be fine, but even though the drills are victorious,
but they still wear out. And if you don’t change them, then due to pressure they will not
drill holes and pierce the very base. That is, there will be cracks in it
form (between layers of fiberglass), which again at the stage
drills are completely invisible. And pobedit drills are in short supply. And push him
it’s always good at the market, well, there are fishermen there (for the marmise), and so on
Business men will always buy. So they carried them slowly, and those that
remained, muzzled until completely worn out.
We drilled holes in the board, and took it to the galvanizing shop, where in these holes
Copper should increase, that same metallization. Everything would be fine again, yes
technological process, and the boards are supposed to hang in the electrolyte for three days, and
gradually metallize. But the trouble is, the woman who sits on the galvanic
my daughter is growing up, but there is no man, and the salary is such that there is barely enough for food. And here
from the neighboring workshop they offered to push the hackwork and make a plate to the left. I thought
the woman remembered her daughter’s eyes and torn coat, and gave a stronger current,Instead of four days, the holes would be metalized in two days. Maybe it will do just fine,
but the child will not feel worse than others. And no one would notice,
The last two days the boards will lie under the table. Well, what has grown there in the cracks, yes?
even with “impact” galvanization, you can already guess. And definitely to God alone
known.
Then again it’s all chemistry, they rolled photoresist onto the board, it’s a varnish,
which becomes insoluble under the influence of ultraviolet light. Again they took from
jars from the bottom, and a little sludge got mixed in, but these are minor things, at least here
the result will be visible with your eyes. Next, under the lamps and again into chemistry. Poison. Well
The holidays have just arrived. All Workers' Day, Great October or
Let's say New Year. Or maybe it’s just the site foreman’s birthday. And since
We celebrated holidays at work (because the restaurant was expensive), then for
the etching process could be seen by the drunken eyes of a young boy who
he’s thinking about how to sneak his girl into the territory on the sly, and then, well, in general,
what happened, came out. From the board etching process, of course.
They quickly rinsed the board with water, cut off the excess edges with a guillotine and sent them to
the last major stage. Here it will be covered with a thin layer of bismuth. This
this metal is white, very similar to solder and necessary for
normal soldering. In general, at this stage everything worked out, because the old master had alreadyretired, and the new one has not yet figured out where to push the "surplus" of this
affairs.
And now we have the fee. Printed. Beautiful, but in places with mordants (paths
too thin), in places with “stucks” (these are the places where her boy is on
harassed and groped with his fingers after he returned from his girlfriend), but in places
and nothing at all. Payment I mean.
How long does it take, but the board fell into the hands of our craftsman. Which should of
assemble it, the miracle computer . To do this he must
insert and solder the microcircuits. But there are a ton of microcircuits, and the tip of the soldering iron is completely
stupid, and poorly tinned. So he pokes, now at the tin, then at the rosin, and
in some places, acidic flux may drip (well, what to do when you can’t solder?).
In addition, before soldering, he cut the stuck together tracks with a scalpel, and
I sealed the etched ones (planting droplets of solder).
Speaking of solder. Soldering should be done with POS61 solder. This means that it should
be 61% tin, and the rest lead. This alloy has the lowest
melting temperature. If there is more tin or blue, then it will be necessary to heat
stronger. And our craftsman bought his solder on the market, cheaper in the form of rods. And
I heard about all sorts of subtleties (such as POS60 or POS90). Especially for him
They said at the market: “Take it, can’t you see the solder is crunchy, it’s pure tin and not Mr.
all sorts of things! This was stolen from a defense plant!> Only our craftsman didn’t knowthat with pure tin they solder something completely different than boards. And he doesn't know why
Robert Scott's expedition to the South Pole ended so badly. Well, nothing
I turned up the heat on the soldering iron, but it shines!
I soldered it, but the board didn’t work right away. I had to solder it somewhere
microcircuits, some fallen tracks to patch up, but after dancing with a tambourine
it worked. He barely washed it with either acetone or gasoline, the main thing was that
It looked clean!
They sold this board, and it began to work, bringing joy to one good
to the spektrumist. And the spektrumist was a musician. And the muse came to him only
at night, and it was also too lazy to smoke on the stairs, so right here behind the keyboard,
sometimes even ashes fell on the board. By the way, the board still lived in an open box,
because some kind of little things, ports, joysticks were constantly soldered onto it.
So why close and open it? And so the board worked, turn on C
gets hot, turns it off, cools down, then blows tobacco smoke on it, then splashes
Coca-Cola will get there. But she worked slowly. Some poorly soldered legs
microcircuits began to tear out of the solder surrounding them, in some places the tin cracked in
places of patching, and when they upgraded the computer, they poked it with a soldering iron one more time.
And so five years passed. And then the musician threw her onto the balcony, and with
stopped playing music. Because he had a young wife and child to feed.And then they took the board out from the mezzanine, turned it on, and lo and behold, it even started working! But
not for long, however, because congenital diseases made themselves felt.
This is such a long story. If there is a pun or coincidence with
real people, then excuse me, all images are fictitious. But the scarf is the same
works every other time.
Hello, research
2Conan - Once again I pleased you with a highly artistic story! Thank you!
You see, Research really got to me :)
And I was especially interested in the smoking thing - I also smoke next to the speck :)
Is it really because the smoke gets on the board that it gets worse???
And it’s a pity for the payment from your story!!! Come on - attribute some kind of happy ending!!!!
Please! :)
2Research - I don’t have a tester. After the New Year, I’ll ram it and check it.
In the meantime, I won’t touch anything, I already said.
But I just want to firmly fix the board in any way. Even if she is now
Absolutely intact - crawling across the floor won't make her any better!!!
Hello, vasstr
Sur> 2Conan - Once again I pleased you with a highly artistic story!
Sur> Thank you!
Sur> You see, Research really got to me :)
Sur> And it’s a pity for the payment from your story!!! Come on - add some
Sur> happy ending!!!!
Sur> Please! :)
Sur>
Treatment of congenital diseases is not an easy process. But the time has come for the payment
light period. She fell into the hands of someone who loved Speccy and from fiddling with hardware
and enjoyed using the software. This man consulted with his comrades and asked around
at all kinds of forums and conferences. And he got down to business. First things first, I cleaned it and
I washed the board from the dirt that had accumulated over many years. In some places there are even tracks with an eraser
I had to clean them off because they were oxidized. Then he sharpened (or rather forged) the sting
soldering iron, found high-quality solder (POS 61), flux (LTI-120), mounting wire
soldering magnifying glass and tools (scalpel, tweezers and mounting pliers).
First of all, I examined the board, saw various defects (missing solders, torn
legs). I soldered the weak points that were visible to the eye. Then I connected it and
Using an oscilloscope I found a few more places. Then I realized that it would be faster
Solder all vias with mounting wire. Of course there was a lot of fuss,but the board seemed to have acquired a new life. I began to breathe. I also changed the panels to
collet, and connectors are the same, but with gold-plated leads. Then I washed everything
once again, to remove any remaining flux and varnish it. That's it. The case was found very
even cute (super-slim from what an old pussy). Power supply
normal. I tied all the wires and cables with ties, where necessary for screws (screws)
I installed the growers. Place tags where necessary (so that if anyone comes next
use, did not start everything with research). Monitor, keyboard controllers
(Kamilya Karimova), HDD (from NedoPC) he already had
And one weekend, I took Maine a bottle of beer (cognac, cola or whatever
taste), loaded Nether Earth (Elite, etc.) and nicely and from the heart on the buttons
(joystick) pressed, gaining peace of mind and excellent
mood. And although his wife/parents/children looked at him somewhat strangely, he
then I understood what the thrill was from this thoroughly and extensively laid out, but still
keeping many mysteries and secrets, the forever young Speccy.
P.S. The described tricks with the board were performed by specially trained people and
tools, please do not try to repeat them yourself
Hello jdigreze
Oh. I missed the happy ending then! Great, Conan!
Publish it!
Hello Surfin' Bird
Two hands in favor! :) If possible, then in “Paragraph”.