[FWD] ATM-Turbo 2+

============================================================================== * Forwarded by Wladimir Bulchukey (500:95/462) * Region : ZX.SPECTRUM (Speccy - rulez!) * From: Chunin Roman, 2:5020/400 (27 Jul 04 16:16) * To: Aleksey Tarasow, * Topic: ATM-Turbo 2+ ============================================================================== From: "Chunin Roman" Hello Alexey! Here is the first-hand answer, so to speak, from the respected comrade Maksagor (he himself cannot yet go out into the echo). ==================== Part 1 ======================================================= Hello everyone! Here I read opinions on ATM-turbo 2+, which, as always, are varied, and I decided to comment on something. Well, since I temporarily don’t have the opportunity write directly to the echo, I do it through a friend. Let me clarify right away that we are talking specifically about the “2+” model, otherwise I noticed there is a repeated tendency to confuse it with model "1", which actually had somewhat unfortunate map of new ports that conflict with standard ones free manner of home-grown coders to handle them (half of #FD and her similar). In the "2+" model everything is normal - this drawback was taken into account. > DR> And also, if you purchase the subject, will there be any problems with > DR> compatibility > DR> or not? > They will be there in any case.In principle it is true. But the person who asked the question may not correctly this phrase understand. Therefore, I will try to conduct a mini educational program for beginners. I want to clarify for the new spektrumist the point that all clones are in some way differ from each other both with software (ports, modes, or features ROM) and hardware (duration and shape of various system signals) points of view. Therefore, occasionally a situation may arise when the program, using some characteristics of the computer to the maximum will not work (or will not work quite like that) on another clone, which has these characteristics a little excellent. The most famous example here is the length of the INT signal, which There is one Pentagon, but many other clones have a slightly different one. As a result border and multicolor effects (which are synchronized with INT), written according to the characteristics of the Pentagon, and not having adjustments to others characteristics will look different on other clones. Also due to INT in the Pentagon there are slightly more clock cycles per interrupt. And programs using the time between interruptions is almost 100%, on other clones this can happen the interruption cannot be met, as a result, it begins to slow down or hang, in depending on the case. But having outlined this picture, I would like to note that these cases are not widespread. character. And the share of incompatible programs for each clone does not exceed a couple percent, if not less.There is, however, one type of program that causes incompatibility. I'm talking about programs written specifically for the advanced standards of any one clone and others who ignore the standards. First of all, this applies to memory over 128Kb. Unfortunately, in the 90s everyone came up with their own ports to address it, the result was a variety of standards (thank God that the growth of their number seems to have stopped). So, for example, I can't play on ATM-2+ the game EMPIRE-2 from SLIP/Action, as it is designed minimum 256KB of memory. Everything seems to be in order, because ATM2+ has a whole megabyte But the catch is that the game only understands standards Pentagon-512 and KAY/Scorpion. And the same Pro, ATM1 and ATM2 remain "for board" (by the way, the author has already released a stripped-down version of the game without music for 128K, so you can still play). But be patient already in programs with such requests are made with the standard auto-detecter or with the ability connect an external memory driver, specifically for a specific clone (for example - ALASM or the excellent GIF-Viewer). In addition, the vast majority of them can work without problems and with standard 128K, and uses the upper memory, if available, only as additional convenience. And only, I repeat, units of programs (literally sense of one) require the presence of upper memory.So that's what was meant by the phrase "they will be there anyway." That is cases of incompatibility can occur on any clone. But you need to clearly have taking into account that cases of incompatibility will be isolated and very rare. On PC these problems are much more common. As for ATM2+, but the only thing its serious difference is the non-Pentagon INT (but corresponding branded). There shouldn't be any other problems. Another letter: > Subzh is one of the best and most sophisticated clones. Software for its bells and whistles written > not much, but still worth taking. Moreover, Maxagor is actively something under > does it, and seems to have already been screwed on. I would like to comment on the question about software: Of course, in terms of the amount of standard software with TR-DOS, no other system ZX can't compete. So we won’t compare with her. And for the rest software for bells and whistles (99% of which is written for the CP/M environment) is enough for of its level is numerous and varied, occupying dozens of megabytes, or more than 40 disk images. This is, of course, not TR-DOS, but also You won't be bored with a couple of floppy disks either. Moreover, software development continues. This especially applies to iS-DOS. It is written incorrectly - iS-DOS was always screwed on. The only thing is that for a long time I could not find the driverhard drive for ATM. Now it's written. Until recently, the latest version of the isdos was “not screwed in” - iS-DOS Chic 2000. I am proud to announce that this problem has been solved. iS-DOS chic on ATM-2+ already works. Moreover, I’ll tell you a secret: in addition to the usual iS-DOS Chic is almost the development of a new isdos kernel has been completed specifically for advanced ATM graphic capabilities, namely 80x25 text console. That is, operating in 80 characters per line mode. And at the same time practically completely Compatible with other versions of isdos. The few utilities that are displayed problematically and are already being redone. But there are not many of them. When finalizing a new screen driver *.TYP was written, and the levels were also corrected (I I don’t understand everything - I didn’t code it, so I might get the names confused) SHELL, WIND and SYS to expand the area of the SHELL shell panels and correct displaying attributes in windows. The new system is called TASiS (Text Alternative Screen). Well, the third letter, written by Alexey Tarasov, which made me a few it hurt unpleasantly. It was because of him that I decided to write an answer, but I only decided they are not limited to. > IMHO the best Spectrum compatible machine is the Pro. I myself am > owner of this machine, first version 3.0, then bought 5.3. No problems once > notIt's good when a person is proud of the computer he works on. Moreover the word best is quite vague. Some value their spec for its bells and whistles, while others - on the contrary, for their absence (for example, there were statements in the echo, that the bells and whistles only spoil the spec. And although I don't agree with it, it's an opinion can be respected). Zhavoronkov actually once said that a real spec is branded. The rest are not Spectrums at all (again, I don’t agree, but I respect your opinion). But here, in this case, despite the somewhat apologetic the word "IMHO" this pride is elevated to an absolute and reaches the point of fanaticism. I have I don't mean this letter. It’s just that, while reading the echo, I often noticed that as soon as the speech talks about different clones (and sometimes for other reasons), Alexey appears with message with approximately the following content: “The coolest computer is Pro. I I'm happy to use it. I recommend it to everyone." Listings often follow advantages. Again, everything seems to be fine if it didn’t happen often without reason, or rather, as soon as it seemed to the author that there was something on the horizon vaguely there is a reason to advertise the Pros. And there is nothing worse than a phrase phrases said at the wrong time and off topic. And especially if the comparison of clones is unfounded or, worse, with complete incompetence. This is already the case happened. But this was especially clear in this letter, which made me to take on the answer.I’ll say right away that the author (Alexey, sorry for the rebuke. I’m fine with you I relate, but here you, with your incompetence, went too far) of that message I’ve never seen a live ATM, and I only learned about its existence about a year ago a year and a half ago, having stumbled upon it during rare (for objective reasons) forays to the Internet to my ATM site http://atmturbo.narod.ru, which was then only recently began its existence and contained little information (since then a lot of time has passed!). He apparently looked through it very quickly and wrote to me letters with questions (and advertising Pro, of course, by the way, sent under him a lot of good software, which I was happy to look at on the emulator, because I don’t have my own Pro, although I’ve had to work with him in life). I told him replied. And Alexey either read them superficially, or I’m a bad master It’s bad to write and talk about the features of ATM and that’s my fault. But apparently Alexey has already formed a preconceived opinion about this model, deciding that he knows everything he needs about her, and nothing more is required. Because that's the only way I I can explain the race (sorry Alexey, nothing personal) that is presented in his letter below and which we will analyze point by point. > arose, everything that was launched went. Differences from ATM: Everything I run works for me too (and everything I don’t run doesn’t work. Hehe.A program that you don’t run, but for some reason runs, is called a virus. So far they have not been noticed on ATM). But let's go further - > 1. More software for both tyrdos and SPM (many times). An unsubstantiated statement. It’s not clear what you are basing this on, Alexey? Under TR-DOS, both for ATM and Pro, the amount of software is the same - after all, it’s Spectrum mode! Compatibility is important here. If we mean exactly that software that uses the features of Pro, then yes, programs that understand There are more top memory Pros than programs that understand ATM top memory. But In any case, I don't know a single TR-DOS program that comes with A pro doesn't use ATM. Just some programs, not finding Pro memory, work with standard 128K. But I already discussed this question at the beginning of the letter. in discussions about the incompatibilities of different clones. I repeat that for a long time now programs use autodetecters and external drivers. As for the software for CP/M, I can hardly restrain myself from laughing: again, where did this word “at times” come from? I saw software under Pro, which you sent me, I saw the list of other software you also sent, I saw the Kramis price lists. And I will say that the amount of CP/M software for Pro and ATM roughly comparable. Or rather, I haven’t compared, and I won’t compare. Maybe more under Pro, maybe more under ATM - it doesn’t matter. Here are the differences "intimes" - no. They measure the amount of software like pimply teenagers with their own male priors, I do not intend. It is important that this software exists and there is a lot of it. The zipped archive folder of ATM software for CP/M on my website weighs 24MB. A if you unzip it? And we also need to take into account that in the lists of programs on the website the names of disk IMAGES are presented (there are more than 40 of them). And on many of them several (or even several dozen) programs and utilities. So I'm here again, I see a superficial attitude towards something that does not relate to love by you, Alexey Proficou (really, a good clone. But why do that?) Sprinter user, ATM-2. Website: http://chunin.infpres.com ================================================================================ Don't slaughter the cash cow that lays golden eggs, All...! With the best - Wlodek # wlblack(@)newmail.ru # http://wlodeks.narod.ru [ZX] [500:95/462@ZXNet] [2:5016 Forever] [Golyanovo] [Old Russians]

============================================================================== * Forwarded by Wladimir Bulchukey (500:95/462) * Region : ZX.SPECTRUM (Speccy - rulez!) * From: Chunin Roman, 2:5020/400 (27 Jul 04 16:19) * To: Aleksey Tarasow, * Topic: ATM-Turbo 2+ ============================================================================== From: "Chunin Roman" ======================================= Part 2 ======================================================= > 2. IMHO a more thoughtful extended screen, the pro has 512x240x256, the ATM > 600x200x64. Well, this is complete nonsense, mixed with dense incompetence. First, let's touch on the Pros. The third digit in the screen parameters is usually indicates the number of colors displayed simultaneously. And then Alexey frankly drives because Profik, like ATM, simultaneously displays 16 colors. Apparently here meant the Palette, which actually contains 256 colors, of which 16 can be displayed on the screen at the same time. The palette is really richer similar to ATM, which contains “only” 64 colors. But there is already a difference small. Further, truly complete incompetence in ATM is demonstrated (Alexey, you have the right not to know the features of ATMka, but then why bother with the tone and with the pathos of a supposed expert to expose such nonsense to everyone?). In addition to the standard Spectrum screen, ATM2+ has 3 more modesadvanced graphics (only one in Pro). Maybe Alexei this fact (more screens on ATM compared to Profic) seemed offensive, and he decided not to notice it, and simply erased it from his memory? After all, I I told him about these regimes before! One of them is an analogue of EGA - 320x200 (each dot has its own color - here are the concepts attribute does not exist!) The other is hardware multicolor 640x200 (attribute per byte (a strip of 8 pixels). Apparently Alexey had this regime in mind when he mentioned the mythical 600x200x64) The third is an 80x25 text console (one byte in the screen area - one ASCII character on a monica or an attribute on a familiar place). Well okay. The modes may not be known or they may be confused. This is forgivable. But it is unforgivable when, based on such vague information, decisions are made conclusions are drawn and even verdicts are made. About them below: > Graphics stretching on ATM is more than doubled, while on Pro > 1.3 only. Due to this, on the ATM screen you can only work normally with > text. I somewhat did not understand what this most notorious stretching is, and especially how can it interfere with working normally with graphics (or rather, I’m in I finally figured it out. But did other readers understand the echoes, and especially "new to the Spectrum world"?)? Why (quote) "only 1.3" on Profikallows you to work, and "more than twice" (in fact this is nonsense) on ATM - no? And most importantly, how? Now let's get back to reality again: I will talk about “stretch marks”. The Pro screen, compared to the ZX screen, has not 192, but 240 lines. Accordingly, the “extra” lines increase the total screen area, due to reducing the area of the border, from which 24 were “bitten off” at the top and bottom lines. This is probably what Alexey meant when he talked about “stretching” 1.3" (actually even less). The width of the Pro screen is 512 pixels. But the total screen width remains equal to the Spectrum one, since increasing the number of pixels is achieved in the same way as in homemade mode 512x192 in the Pentagon - due to halving the width the pixels themselves. As a result, they are no longer squares, but rectangles with an aspect ratio of 2:1. Only unlike Pentagon mode, the Pro screen works with color according to the principle hardware multicolor (attribute per byte). And now the most intriguing thing - the “stretch marks” in the ATM chart: Let's start with the 320x200x16 mode. The pixel size here is equal to the pixel in the ZX screen. But since there are more pixels themselves horizontally and vertically, then accordingly, as in Pro, it was increased due to the border area main screen area. At the same time, the top and bottom of the curb were “bitten off” 4 pixels each, and left and right -(320-256)/2=32 - that is, 32 pixels each. That's all scary and terrible "a stretch greater than 2 times"! Oh yes! There was also a 640x200 mode. But there is an increase in the number of pixels by 2 times compared to 320x200 is achieved in the same way as in Pro - by compressing the width of the pixels. The screen proportions no longer change! The text screen is done based on 640x200 (that is, with compressed pixels), the only difference being that with You cannot work with individual pixels, but only with those output by hardware symbols. About the mythical "stretch marks". All. But it’s still not clear to me how small Can increasing the screen area interfere with working with graphics? Let everything Readers will appreciate these gems. Well, admit it Alexey - after all he was stupid! > 3. On Pro, the SPM has been seriously improved. Indeed, there are some good innovations in working with drivers and residents, although I do not consider these advantages so expressive compared to standard CP/M 2.2 (with an extended set of control codes for working with color) installed on ATM. But this is my personal IMHO. But the obvious objective disadvantage of the pro-Finnish axis is that it determining the presence of a hard drive, it “occupies” all of it automatically, dividing into a certain number of 8MB partitions, up to the end of the free space.And this creates problems for other axes (in this case, isdos. By the way, there seems to be no driver for the professional screw for isdos), because it’s not clear where they are bet if everything around is already occupied by CP/Mkoy? Or rather, you can put it on top sections of CP/M, but then there remains the danger that one day this will be CP/M is erased again... > 4. All peripherals are fully supported in the SPM, there is detailed documentation almost > for everything, for the entire periphery, there are files that describe all entry points (for > M80 assembler). A very strange argument. After all, in ATM this is also the case - both with the periphery and with documentation. In general, it’s good when the hardware capabilities are supported programmable and well documented. One can only be happy for pro users. By the way, ASM m80 is also available on ATM, since it is standard for CP/M and comes on all computers with this system. > 5. The main disadvantage of the Pro is that it is no longer produced, but the ATM guys are are trying. This is not the main disadvantage of Pro. But in general they don’t do that - at first criticize the hardware features of one model while praising your own, and then, “for objectivity” insert the phrase “but we have separate shortcomings", but coming from a completely different story. In this case, This drawback (after criticism of the hardware) is only that the computerno longer produced. And so this is - well, complete ideal! There are no other shortcomings... :o) By the way, this is a logical error - a substitution of concepts and meanings. So here it is. I believe that at the moment the main disadvantage of Pro is that there is a wide variety of versions, with virtually undocumented their differences from each other. For example, I have seen several Professionals in my life - with extended screen and without it, with and without a screw controller, with 1024Kb, from 512Kb and from 128Kb. Experts may know the differences, but here’s how to figure it out for a simple buyer who wants the bells and whistles described by Alexey, when they tell him - look, Pro is for sale. What is this - the same supercomputer as from Alexey, or a machine with 128Kb, no different in terms of bells and whistles Pentagon? Well okay. We take the latest version - 5.03. I'm here in due time I read Condor's price lists. So it was something like this: For such and such a price - delivery in a minimal configuration. For such and such - let's connect the screw for such and such - XT-clave For such and such - we turbo up to 7 MHz For such and such - up to 15 MHz Etc.. Do you understand everything? This means that most likely (God forbid I’m wrong) scattered across the country are a bunch of fifth Professionals, different from each other according to the connected periphery. And a person who does not understand Profiks, and after reading the advertisement Alexey, who wants bells and whistles, can get into trouble, even after finding exactly version 5.03.(WB comment: getting into a hole is missing the vagina during sexual intercourse :) (Source of information: newsletter "Did you know..." Subscribe.Ru). And here - get into trouble :)). In ATM, everything is on board (you just need to know that ATM1 and ATM2(+) are completely different clones, which have several common circuit designs, and everything). Is that sometimes they are too lazy to solder another 16 RU7 on the second floor, leaving Memory is only 512Kb. But you can do this yourself. But where from Now is the time to take a Profinsky screw or keyboard controller, if initially it was not established due to the fact that the customer was strangled by a toad at one time, looking at the price? That's the question. You can also get peripherals for KAY and Scorp, but not according to Pro. Okay. It's time to finish. In conclusion, I will say that Denis Revin thought about We offer to purchase ATM boards from us, which will be ready in September. A since the spec, especially 128K, still doesn’t know much, especially ATM, so I asked people, what is it? As a result, after reading the letters, I realized that you all Now you will completely confuse him. So I had to write this novel. Timonin Maxim aka Maksagor http://atmturbo.narod.ru Sprinter user, ATM-2. Website: http://chunin.infpres.com ================================================================================ Don't slaughter the cash cow that lays golden eggs, All...!With the best - Wlodek # wlblack(@)newmail.ru # http://wlodeks.narod.ru [ZX] [500:95/462@ZXNet] [2:5016 Forever] [Golyanovo] [Old Russians]