Do I need to connect the ZX to the NETWORK?
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello KIA
KIA> in new models GPRS modem is less common
how so? I'm so far behind life doing ZX? :) and what's wrong with these models
instead of GPRS? EDGE? - almost the same. but, IMHO, where there is EDGE, there is also
GPRS.
or was everything replaced with a blue tooth? somehow unreal...
KIA> and it’s quite difficult to understand whether it is there or not..
tell me at least one model (new) - where it is difficult to determine. I'll try it myself.
Hello Paul_ls
I think that LAN 10/100/1000 Mbit is not needed, they’re just like that for Spectrum
bandwidth is useless and full integration into local networks to
PC too. And all needs are more than compensated for by a connection to one of the PCs from which
only later, if necessary, you can pull something out of the general network.
PPP via GPRS modem is generally an ideal solution, firstly we get
a full-fledged com port through which you can directly connect to a PC, in
secondly, due to the small requests for transfer volumes: 4-5 Kilobytes per second -
this is simply super and is equivalent to a LAN connection on a PC, in terms of use and
needs. And besides, it is a wireless connection and as a bonus
we get a “local network” in the form of an Internet connection. In fact, the Internet can
use Speccy as a LAN, that is, connect two computers (or more!!) in
in neighboring rooms via GPRS of a cellular operator (everything is multi-channel there).
At prices of 4 rubles per 1 MB
(http://www1.mts.ru/service/access_internet/gprs/internet_plus/) you can for days and
use GPRS at night, but for those who want to save money there are always regular
modems. At the same time, everyone has a cell phone, although the new models have a GPRS modem
It is less common and it is quite difficult to understand whether it is there or not.. but it is not
problem, you can even get an old cell phone with a modem for a can of beer.Com port, naturally, to connect a modem must be full-fledged with its own
buffer, so that every bit is not caught and nothing is lost, and with an outcome according to
power supply, so that you can pair it with any devices without fear.
Hello Orionsoft
Ori> Yes, via modem and PPP protocol
Ori> Yes, via Ethernet 10 or 100
Ori> No, no need
Ori> No, not profitable
Ori> Author Gonit !
YES, via ADSL modem.
This, IMHO, will be enough for everything...
Hello jdigreze
jdi> In general, a stack for the sake of a stack is not needed if you can’t access this stack
jdi> will attach any software. Don't embed it in every software...
jdi>
Yes. Therefore, the output must be sockets. Standard, with C-libs. Then just
We take any sources from other platforms and compile them for ourselves.
jdi> And about the fact that the z80 won’t be able to pull anything except the stack itself
jdi> IMHO this is a race, it’s not that heavy. Nobody says that
jdi> you need to keep the transfer speed at 100 Mbit, process at least 9600 -
jdi> will already be ~1K per second. I doubt that it will be required
jdi> higher speed ;)
Okay. Agree. Stack at low speeds and with a single ZX 3.5MHz buffer
can pull. There won’t be enough resources for anything other than a stack, I assure you. Or for
so that there is enough processor left to work, for example, with graphics, someone will
write and optimize the stack in ASMA? This is a particularly rare case
perversion will result, not to mention the fact that no one except the author (if he
master debugging) will never understand this project. There are stacks online on ASMA
for 8-bit (I keep links) - they were all written over the years and are still unfinished -
abandoned.
Hello KIA
There are already a number of EmbeddedEthernet models ($20..30) that
They give the main thing - a ready-made stack, i.e. completely relieve ZX from calculations
stack, ZX already works at the upper level of TCP/IP - the socket level. Links by
We flew past the forum, though it was a long time ago. Here, for example:
http://www.efo.ru/doc/Wiznet/Wiznet.pl?628
There is nothing like this for COM and it is unlikely there will be, and in the case of COM the entire ZX resource
will go to TCP maintenance (and will not just have a slow speed, as they wrote here) - and
who needs such a "stack for the sake of stack"? And then, in modern conditions, when
any provider gives you Ethernet to the apartment at the entrance, Streams and its clones
growing like mushrooms - why bother with a modem or GPRS? Or does anyone have
ZX-mobile?
Hello Orionsoft
In general, there is no need for a stack for the sake of a stack if it is impossible to access this stack
attach any software. Don't put it in every software...
As for the fact that the z80 won’t be able to pull anything other than the stack itself, IMHO that’s
gon, it’s not that heavy lifting. Nobody says you need speed
keep transmissions at 100 Mbit, process at least at 9600 - already ~1K per second
it will work out. I doubt that more speed will be required ;)
Hello KIA
KIA> In fact, GPRS on a cell phone is divided into two parts: GPRS (+WAP) and
KIA> GPRS-Modem
or rather: GPRS-WAP and GPRS-INTERNET.
KIA> GPRS-WAP, which is charged by kilobytes for crazy money
I agree. But usually the tariff is 10kb.
KIA> When there is nothing similar in the settings
Yes, I don’t have anything similar in the settings on my X100. but the phone is connected
to the PC, it works fine as a modem.
offtop begin;
A; Now, if you use java midlets (for example, Jimm-icq client), then for them
you need to register the APN of this GPRS-INTERNET (in my case this is achieved with
using (I almost said: undocumented commands :)) engineering codes. a
In general, there is a patch for it (X100), which makes THIS a menu item. but that's the topic
separate conversation...
offtop end
KIA> or there is no communication interface with the computer at all... well - bummer
I agree. horror dreams.
KIA> they write GPRS everywhere
IMHO, if they say so, there is a modem. Opsos (cellular operator) is another matter.
may not support GPRS-INTERNET. in our region TELE2, for example, is not
supports.
KIA> it simply does not have GPRS settings, because this is the GPRS that -
KIA> WAPerror. GPRS-WAP ALWAYS has settings. Each posso has his own.
KIA> I just used to think that WAP and GPRS were completely different things
KIA> it turned out that WAP is a type of GPRS
WAP is WAP. There is WAP-GPRS, and there is WAP-GSM (time-based charging). yes
that who is whose variety is another question.
Dim> Any phone (except for super-budget models) no older than two
Dim> can work as a GPRS modem.
+1
Mik> via ADSL modem
but this would be so cool!!!
Hello, Mikka_A
RTFM
Файл: Embedded Internetworking With 8- And 16-Bit Microcontrollers.rar
http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4542
Hello John North
And so, you look at the phone, it says that there is GPRS, you go into the settings, and there
or only GPRS-WAP, which is charged by kilobytes for crazy money,
or the ability to have it only through the built-in Browser, since there is no
There are sockets for the Data cable.
In fact, GPRS on a cell phone is divided into two parts: GPRS (+WAP) and GPRS-Modem,
The sellers do not understand the difference between these two concepts at all and in every possible way
They claim that a particular phone has a GPRS modem. When in the settings
there is nothing similar or there is no communication interface with the computer at all
provided... well, it's a bummer, but they are specifically misleading.
Moreover, this is also not determined by the box, because everywhere they write GPRS, but
To find out if there is a modem there you will have to get into the phone itself.
Here, for example:
http://sotovik.ru/catalog/phones/pantech/gf210.html#3
Even despite the presence of iRDa, it simply does not have GPRS settings, because it
that GPRS, which is WAP, Pantech, this one for 3 thousand rubles is everywhere now.
But a phone with a modem, as they say: find 10 differences (only a shoe for
I can't find it anywhere)
http://sotovik.ru/catalog/phones/siemens/a_31.html
Hello John North
Joh> or was everything replaced with a blue tooth? somehow unreal...
Joh>
No, I just used to think that WAP and GPRS are completely different things,
it turned out that WAP is a type of GPRS, or rather it is most likely a protocol
data transmission, working via GPRS, but the second “protocol” is not called
protocol, but a modem (if you want a protocol like conventional modems), although in
in general, the GPRS module acts as a physical modem, so the second one is simple
lowered. And it turns out that in reality there is no WAP without GPRS, but is there any
"modem" x.z. because they write about this very rarely.
Hello KIA
Any phone (with the exception of super-budget models) not older than two years can
work as a GPRS modem.
But there may be problems with the accessibility of the COM-DATA cable.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> What else can happen.... for there to be 2 Spectrums in one house???
That's why I say ADSL.
In fact, if you implement something like USB - oh, how many problems you can have
decide...
Hello jtn
jtn> what about a home network from ZXs through sockets - it’s ok...
What else happens... that there would be 2 Spectrums in one house???
Hello KIA
Regarding GPRS, you should say GPRS-INTERNET at least ten times if your cell phone has it
settings only GPRS-WAP, then it will connect only through it with
Internet, from a phone, from a computer... - it doesn’t matter. Pay orders of magnitude more
you can pay as much as you want for your WAP (the price is the same everywhere for both GSM and GPRS), and
This doesn't suit me.
Hello KIA
KIA> Regarding resources: since phones can do it, that means spec can do it too, no problem
KIA> brain soar,
KIA>
already funny.
KIA> Com port is made one two three,
KIA>
and it was done a long time ago. Did this solve anything? Solder BB53 and BB51, you know
It’s not at all the same thing to write software, and to write it in such a way that others
they could use it and develop their own based on it.
KIA> and the protocol is needed in such a way that it can reach at least some
KIA> server on which you can pile anything you want and through it
KIA> communicate, I think that the matter is not limited to TCP/IP?
KIA>
This is where everything ends. Nothing else is simply needed. No need
Today I need “something” that provides 300 bytes/sec, for which I also need software
make completely from scratch.
KIA> And keep in mind that data from the com will be removed in batches
KIA> so there won’t be much stress. And in general, don’t make me laugh - that’s it
KIA> resources for processing some 200-300 bytes per second (what will happen
KIA> more technical information in 2-3Kb packages?)Still, explain to me what you are going to do with "200-300 bytes per second" on
incompatible protocol?
Hello KIA
Correct phones with COM port and GPRS modem
Siemens S45,ME45,M50
Hello Orionsoft
Ori> Correct phones with COM port and GPRS modem
Ori> Siemens S45,ME45,M50
I'll add my favorite SonyEricsson T68i
Hello, Mikka_A
If you have ADSL or LAN at home, then the corresponding PC will be connected to it,
Mac, Amiga, which will drive gigabyte files through it and into toys over the network
play .. accordingly, for any ZX will be connected through another computer, yes to him
there is simply NOTHING to do in such an inclusion: PC files will not be driven, in
DOOM will cut himself too.. (but he will take up the place of the pussy very much, and
therefore, he will be thrown out at the first opportunity: let me get the files through..)
If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, now there are cell phones with WiFi, but
the most it will be good for is reading the news, and no one will be at home doing this
study, just turn on the PC and watch it in normal format. No need
trying to replace what exists and what works with something else is not
device adapted to this!
Regarding resources: if phones can do it, then speck can do it, no brain
soar, the Com port is made one two three times, and the protocol is needed such that
reach at least some server on which you can pile up something
you want to communicate through it, I think that the matter is not limited to TCP/IP?
And at the same time, keep in mind that data from com will be removed in batches, so
There won't be much stress. And in general, don’t tell me - all resources are available
processing some 200-300 bytes per second (which - there will be more technical information
maybe in 2-3Kb packages?)Well, besides, why the extra wires and hubs?!! Why is this extreme?
powered via LAN killed by the first lightning? (I personally have three routers with this
it burned down in the summer, fortunately they had WiFi, but the brother-in-law completely threw out the computer, and
then network connection again)
And finally, I’ve been surfing the Internet for a long time using only GPRS and I’ll say that if
on the PC everything was the same, not demanding in terms of volume, but there was no better interface
find, even WiFi requires electricity and a provider who doesn’t want to
fix the Internet, which was cut off allegedly because of your viruses..
Hello, Error404
Err> and was done a long time ago. Did this solve anything? Solder BB53 and BB51
Err> you know, it’s not at all the same thing to write software, and to write it
Err> so that others can use it and develop their own on it
Err> based.
That’s right, you’ll have to write software for the LAN as well, you can’t install it on a PC
drivers first for the network card, and then TCP/IP, and you don’t configure your favorite DSL
modem that connects via USB because the provider is an idiot, and others
The modems don’t work for them either, and they don’t want to configure the line..
Err> This is where everything ends. There’s simply no need for anything else.
Err> Today I don’t need “something” that provides 300 bytes/sec, for which
Err> and also the software must be made completely from scratch.
Read carefully: “technical information”, all useful information (2-3Kb) is given
program and what she will do with it is her business, maybe directly on the screen or in
file.
Err> Still, explain to me what you are going to do with "200-300 bytes in
Err> second" on an incompatible protocol?
If you have the game LAserSquad, what will you do with it if it doesn't work?what is no longer compatible? Now answer the question: we are talking about connection
computers via the network, or discussing what software we lack, because even a fool
It is clear that software will not be written unless there is a network. And besides ICQ, mail,
torrent, fido and so on were also written incompatible with anything, and imagine -
writing everything from scratch is easier than trying to implement someone’s dumb protocols,
which will be implemented (trust me) if necessary.
Hello, Error404
Err> Still, explain to me what you are going to do with "200-300 bytes in
Err> second" on an incompatible protocol?
And I'm wondering what you're going to do with 1GB per second on a compatible
only with a pussy protocol?
Maybe you're in
Hello, Error404
Err> Still, explain to me what you are going to do with "200-300 bytes in
Err> second" on an incompatible protocol?
And I'm wondering what you're going to do with 1GB per second on a compatible
only with a pussy protocol?
Maybe you can plug your speckie into the domain? But in some places it is not yet
If you enter into the domain, you won’t get anything on the Internet, not to mention all sorts of proxies and
passwords they need...
I have a feeling that a pisyukovite has come, spread his fingers and like I want to
from normal guys, but why I don’t know.. And about the fact that his colleagues are PC admins
"they're fucking up the wall" in the fight against all this buggy super cool LAN, these
firewalls stuck on every corner, hanging DNS and antiviruses without which
you can’t go anywhere, which falls off for unknown reasons and does not slow down
literally in one direction, because samba is not configured correctly or is crooked..
I’m generally silent about encryption and all kinds of authorizations, not to mention VPN
through which it became fashionable to distribute the Internet. Fuck you, my friend, you know it yourself
where with your pies. It’s easier to tuck into the pussy through the comport (and on it
install Ofigate, Piggy and Vista gates with their new protocols, so that
modern networks worked - your business) or even independently via cell phone
and not depend on anyone.
Hello jager
jag> I'm an idiot, my cell phone turns out to be king... why do I use it
jag> Ethernet at home...
jag>
Yes, why? Are you downloading multi-megabyte porn? Or maybe you're on spec
HTML+Java has already messed up, which apparently is not destined for it at all.
But you know, not everyone has a dedicated line and many still sit on
modems, and whether it’s a cell phone or not, it doesn’t matter, rewind the thread and read it and you’ll get it
full of fun.
The point is that all Spectrum needs is the transport of its protocols
via the Internet, and with modern access speeds and data volumes on Speccy
there is no difference between some super high-speed interface and a 56Kbit modem.
Here people are campaigning for LAN and they themselves admit that such speeds are not for him
needed.
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Hmm, it seems that for now we are talking about TCP/IP, and such horrors are only on
Nov> Windows is there, why do we need them?
Nov> On the topic: we need communication - we need a software interface that is better
Nov> do everything for an OS that does not exist. Hardware stack is a way out, but not
Nov> is the best. Within UZIX TCP/IP there is, but the OS itself is at 3.5 MHz
Nov> is of little sanity. Even at 21, redrawing the terminal is a lengthy process
Nov> =) So you shouldn’t even bother without a turbo IMHO.
Uzix - An axis written entirely in C, and works in switched mode
multitasking. The brakes are mainly due to this, and not because of TCP/IP.
A single-tasking OS (acceptably optimized) will fully support TCP/IP (the same
channel ppr, as KIA already wrote above), albeit slowly. There were such examples
implementation in the same CP/M (which is known to be written in PL/M) on a clock cycle
less than 3.5. Unfortunately, this was proprietary software and now there is nothing in
free access, not to mention the source codes. But there are amateur ones
source codes, I once published links here - now I’m too lazy to repeat myself.
And with a hardware stack (in an external controller), everything will fly.
The main thing is that regardless of how the stack is implemented - software orThere is no need to change anything hardware in the application software. Not to mention the fact that
you get access not only from ZX to ZX (which goes without saying), but also to modern
networks (and bells and whistles are a minor matter, that’s why they’re bells and whistles, because their own
a heterogeneous network can be built by turning off everything that is not needed - i.e.
not implemented in ZX).
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Error404, no, well, I understand that in uzix the brakes are not due to the network
Nov> I didn’t test it (because there is no hardware). I'm talking about what's topical
Nov> functionality will mainly be required on a “serious” OS, and not just
Nov> DOS.
Nov> Nevertheless, I think I’ll take a closer look at THIS, because it can port
Nov> it will be easier than to write again, especially since there is z80 and the same 50hz
Nov> interrupts.
Nov>
I’ve already thought about this topic (though I wanted to port it to Orion, but that’s not
fundamentally), I thought, I’ll add an emulator and get started. But, having added the emulator,
I’ve already had my fill of programming, and I’m just lying here digesting it. :) Gotta have an appetite
woke up.
In addition, there are sources only from Uzix 1.0 (this version did not have
implementation of TCP, and in general it is closer to the original UZI), the stack is only in
binaries of version Uzix 2.0 (like the entire version 2.0 only in binaries), and
There is no desire to edit the C code from a disassembler. In addition, you need
know the MSX architecture, because there RS232 support is taken ready-made from ROM. Simpler,
Probably, it will be to find the sources of the stack from another platform and try
screw it on. Again, we need real. How to emulate this whole thing is not even yet
thought.Nov> uzix's FudeBrowZer, by the way, the picture seems already converted
Nov> PC host for MSX.
Nov> http://uzix.sourceforge.net/uzix2.0/scrshots/uzixscrsht6.gif
Nov> The picture is awesome, I feel like 255ms is not a real answer =)
Nov>
I have browser sources for 8-bit (C-code), working in only
text mode, but without "spacers" (unlike Fude). There are sources
IRC, there's more to come. So it's just a matter of protocol. :)
Hello KIA
KIA> And I'm wondering what you're going to do with 1GB per second
KIA>
Is someone forcing it to work at 1GB per second?
KIA> on a protocol compatible only with pisyuk?
KIA>
Educate yourself, or something. I don’t even know how to comment on this.
KIA> Maybe you can plug your Speckie into the domain? ... DHCP ... no matter already
KIA> about all sorts of proxies... LAN, these firewalls are stuck on everyone
KIA> corner, hanging DNS... VPN... traffic. Fuck you my friend
KIA> you know where to go with your pies. It's easier to get to the pussy via comport
KIA> tuck in...
KIA>
:v2_lol;
"I know judo, karate, kungfu and many other scary words" (c)
KIA> I have a feeling that a pisyukovite came, spread his fingers and
KIA> like I want it like normal guys, but I don’t know why.. And about that
KIA> his fellow PC admins are “throwing their heads at the wall” in the fight against all this
:v2_lol;
You; Believe it or not, I am as far from RS as you are from RFC.
And I still don’t understand - what side does PC have in the context of TCP/IP?
Hello KIA
KIA> Read carefully: “technical information”, all useful information (2-3Kb)
KIA> is given to the program and what it does with it is its business, maybe directly
KIA> to the screen or to a file.
KIA>
This is what the protocol stack does: “all useful information is given to the program”
at the top level. And on the bottom it interacts with the drivers. And this is not at all
that problem about which you can write like this “in between times,” as you write.
This is about ICQ, IRC, POP, which you are writing about, you can write like that, because in
In each case, these are 4 pages of listing, which are either written or simply taken in
source code from another platform and compiled. They are very easy to obtain if you have
compatible stack and impossible without having it - i.e. We are talking about incomparable things.
I don’t even know how much I can explain the obvious. You yourself how many networks
programs were written, at least on computers (since if you write on TCP sockets there is a special
no difference)?
KIA> writing everything from scratch is easier than trying to implement someone else's dense
KIA> protocols that will be implemented (trust me) if this
KIA> will be required.
:v2_lol;
Well; Yes. And there are fools all around and still haven’t understood this simple thing as everything ingenious
thought.
Hello jager
Error404, no, well, I understand that in uzix the brakes are not due to the network, which I don’t
I tested it (because there is no hardware). I'm talking about the fact that topic functionality is mainly
will be required on a “serious” OS, and not just DOS.
uzix's FudeBrowZer, by the way, the picture seems to have already been converted by the PC host
for MSX.
http://uzix.sourceforge.net/uzix2.0/scrshots/uzixscrsht6.gif
The picture is awesome, I feel like 255ms is not a real answer =)
However, I think I’ll take a closer look at THIS, because it might be easier to port,
than to write again, especially since there is a z80 and the same 50hz interrupts.
Hello KIA
Hmm, it seems that for now we are talking about TCP/IP, and such horrors are only on Windows and
yes, why do we need them?
On the topic: you need communication - you need a software interface, which is best to do
for an OS that doesn't exist. A hardware stack is a solution, but not the best. Within UZIX
There is TCP/IP, but the 3.5 MHz OS itself is not very flexible. Even for 21 redraws
the terminal is a lengthy process =) So you shouldn’t even bother without a turbo
IMHO.
Hello KIA
Heh, I go to http://www.sics.se/contiki/ to read the news, and what do I see? -
"Optimizing HTML for the Contiki Web Browser" People are also working, and
Judging by the frequency of the news, I’m really in the sweat of my brow.
Hello jager
I just don’t understand why you don’t like IP so much. Just if they are brought
attempts to implement IP on the ZX to a normal form, then this will be very good. Not
these crutches will be needed to convert spec traffic into no for transmitting it
to another spec.
Hello jager
For others who are thinking about IP;
question; In the following, why exactly do we always run into the issue of OS implementation?
Why not make IP as a library and, for example, port it already
existing paired games and write new software on top of this library? What do we need
will it provide an OS?
Hello KIA
To KIA for the last time... Yoperny... I don’t understand you, you are one thing or another... if
made (dreaming) IP (tcp/ip, udp/ip...) then why the hell and what side is everything here
these crutches for converting traffic from ZX to the network... I'm sorry, but I'm
I really just don’t understand and it seems that you don’t understand others and me either.
the whole problem is the lack of an IP stack, if there is one, then make it work
over a modem or lan is another task. write under all this http/pop/smtp
protocols, it's not difficult (read rfc/wrote applications), ftp, to be honest, not
I read the documents, I don’t know him. You can come up with other interaction protocols.
Hello KIA
KIA> I repeat once again: you can wipe yourself with this number, because the Internet
KIA> they won’t just give it to you - at least write down ten IPs, but whatever
KIA> files will have to be loaded using more than other protocols. And for sure
KIA> filtering is based on the MAC address of the network adapter that you provided to yours
KIA> provo, and as soon as you do not allow a normal user to work
KIA> they will turn your head away with their left IP.
Yo-mayo... Have you heard anything about NAT, masquerading... In that quote of mine that you
cited it was about HAT, my computer is connected to the provider’s network, the rest
my home network is connected to my computer and that’s it... It’s up to the provider
drum, I'm not breaking the rules by putting the left IP on the interface that is connected to
provider, I don’t care whether he has filtering there or not, he doesn’t see my
internal computers, he sees only one of my computers, I have a whole network of 4 at home
cars are made that way. In my home network I have the same addresses and I assign them
to their internal machines, and the external machine has the address that was given to me
provider. So the spec, just like other machines via LAN, will be cut off.
That's why I say that the author asked the questions incorrectly. I should have askedmaking a network on IP protocols or inventing a wheel. After all, if you come up with
bike, then you still have to come up with application-level protocols. How
otherwise will you work?
Hello, Error404
Err> This “all useful information is given to the program” is what the stack does
Err> protocol at the top level. And on the bottom - interacts with
Err> drivers.
Well, then what does the implementation of the protocol have to do with whether it will be
work via LAN or via Modem, despite the fact that the implementation of comport is much
simpler, and PPP, as far as I understand, is also not difficult.
Err> You yourself have written so many network programs, at least on computers (since
Err> if you write on TCP sockets there is not much difference)?
Err> :v2_lol;
Err>; Well yes. And there are fools all around and still haven’t understood this simple thing like everyone else
Err> brilliant idea.
PCs don't interest me.
Just as far as I understand, Point to Point Protocol has already been implemented and even
showed the passage of ping, and there is a comport that can easily be adapted to
existing software that works in similar ways. At the same time, the spec itself does not
you need to push in this monstrous LAN and it remains just as easy to understand
and friendly, and your cell phone is always with you and this is MOBILE access independent
depending on the presence of a PC nearby.
Hello, Error404
Err> You won't believe it, I'm as far from RS as you are from RFC.
Err> And I still don’t understand - what side does PC have in the context of TCP/IP?
How will you get access to the Internet?
I can even summarize:
1. LAN implementation will not allow you to exchange files on the network with “normal” ones
computers, because you need to implement Sumba or the like. That is, the usual one
The local file sharing network has gone wild.
2. You won’t get Internet from him either (OR IT WILL GIVE YOU YOURS
OWN COMPUTER (pc or whatever you have) and only to it, in fact you and
you will be connected), since any Internet is not distributed to everyone and simply, which means
you will need to get an IP address (in large networks this is always DHCP), be able to work with
DNS and Proxy, and for this you will most likely have to go through additional authorization through
Web interface, or worse, enter the computer into the domain or connect via VPN... A
packet sizes are normal for regular networks (in which the admin has tweaked something
for greater productivity) does he eat easily too?
Now the question is, if you could connect to one computer via
com port, why did you need a LAN that won’t give you anything more?
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Hmm, it seems that for now we are talking about TCP/IP, and such horrors are only on
Nov> Windows is there, why do we need them?
Nov>
Yes, TCP/IP over LAN doesn’t just happen. If you can't stick yourself into the net and
set everything up like the Pisyukovites, then you won’t get anything. And for this we need everyone
these horrors, on the PC you simply don’t notice them - you cursed, put them where necessary
tick and work, here you will masturbate the coders so that they can VPN you
organized? That is, you can get something, but for this you need
there will be a separate pussy that will do all this and give you personal information,
and as such the networks will be closed to you. Well, then why fence the garden?
What do you need to communicate with PC comport?
And if we talk about TCP/IP without hardware, then there’s no difference
I don’t see between the modem and the LAN, it’s the same protocol!
Hello jager
jag> I just want to say again, don’t mix protocols with each other
jag> IP, application protocols (ICQ, HTTP, FTP, etc.) and how before
jag> access the Internet (modem, Ethernet, etc.). It seems to me that questions
jag> were entered incorrectly in the questionnaire.
I agree that the questions were not formulated correctly, because users
What is needed is not protocols, but programs.
So, the Speccy<>Speccy connection via the Internet is best solved using
its own protocol optimized for the spec (the Internet is needed as a transport network
anyway).
Next we see that almost everything on the network is not suitable for spec, neither HTML,
neither icq nor torrent, that is, it needs exclusive versions and again - no
there is nothing difficult about writing them. Moreover: just as there are
ICQ gateways to Jabber, InterNet to Fido, etc. in the same way, all this will not be boiled in
own juice, but will be integrated to one degree or another with the world
services, but at the same time the spec will not lay bones, but will only use everything
some servers that will transform content for it into
the required form will come with time. And in general, I think it will be enough
one physical server to satisfy the needs of all spektrumists, so
that anyone can organize it.Well then, why not all these ftp, http, samba and AppleTalk right in the Spectrum?
Hello jager
jag> the blonde will figure out how to do this in Windows. And even if Windows
jag> says DHCP type on another computer, and so be it, enter any IP from
jag> range 192.168.0.xxx (I think that’s what they have) and work...
jag>
I repeat once again: you can wipe yourself with this number, because the Internet is for you
They won’t just give it away - at least write down ten IPs, but to pull the files
you will have to add more other protocols. And probably filtering is done by MAC
the address of the network card that you gave to your provider, and as soon as you do not give
for a normal user to work with his left IP, your head will be turned away.
Hello jager
And the answers are so harsh, because behind the LAN there are so many things that
are implied but will not work on Spec due to the lack of implementation
(starting with primitive file sharing with other platforms), what can we say about
I don't see any point in it. And this universal interface is certainly not
will drag because you can’t plug it into any local network, as described
above reasons, which were described as "horror".
Hello jager
Now we come to the most important thing: LAN pulls with it all the tricks of such networks
hanging on the poor spec completely unnecessary protocols in addition to TCP/IP
and all this will work only in greenhouse conditions, because without these
this LAN is a bitch; only; Look at the flashing lights. You write first
this ftp, and then drive it.
With TCP/IP you're right - it doesn't matter the interface.
I ask: why the hell do you need a LAN?
Hello KIA
KIA> You know, not everyone has a dedicated line and many are still sitting
KIA> on modems
I know, but there are also those who don’t have a telephone at home (I live in a village, I have
everything via an Ethernet cable to the provider (phone, FM radio, porn, and
etc.) :-)
KIA> The point is that all Spectrum needs is the transport of its own
KIA> protocols via the Internet
I read the thread at first and it seems like this is the second time. That's the problem, why the hell
fence the garden and invent your own protocols. No one says what if
If you connect to the LAN, you must work at speeds of 10/100/1000 and so on.
Work slower, that's what it's damned for.
I just want to say again, don’t interfere with each other IP protocols,
application protocols (ICQ, HTTP, FTP, etc.) and how before this Internet
get there (modem, Ethernet, etc.). It seems to me that the questions were incorrect
the questionnaire was delivered.
Hello KIA
KIA> How will you get access to the Internet?
KIA> I can even sum it up:
KIA> 1. LAN implementation will not allow you to exchange files on the network with
KIA> "normal" computers, since it is necessary to implement Sumba or
KIA> similar. That is, the usual local network for file sharing is gone
KIA> forest.
KIA>
Why? There is, for example, also FTP... If it’s too difficult, you can do it
for example something more primitive. netcat foreva!!! :-)
KIA> 2. You won’t get Internet from him either (OR YOU WILL HAVE IT
KIA> GIVE AWAY YOUR OWN COMPUTER (pc or whatever you have) and only to
KIA> to it, in fact you will be connected), since any Internet is not
KIA> is distributed to everyone and simply, which means you will need to get an IP address (in
KIA> large networks are always DHCP), be able to work with DNS and Proxy, and for
KIA> this will most likely require additional authorization via the Web
KIA> interface, or worse, enter the computer into the domain or connect via
KIA> VPN... And the packet sizes are normal for regular networks (in whichKIA> the admin tweaked something for better performance) it was also easy
KIA> eat?
KIA>
Providers are different, for example, I have two Ethernet providers, and both give
direct access to the network, enter the IP manually and work. If someone has a more difficult time, then
you can implement access through a large machine, as already written here. In what
problem, I don’t understand, probably even a blonde will figure out how to do it in
Windows And even if Windows says DHCP type on another computer, well, screw it, enter
you any IP from the range 192.168.0.xxx (I think that’s what they have) and work...
And if the IP protocol stack is implemented (even if not completely, it is not all
we need it for zx), then why argue about what to go through... well, you don’t like it
use cheaper data channels, well, use GPRS... After all
even with GPRS, you still can’t get anywhere without an IP stack.
Hello KIA
KIA> and your cell phone is always with you and this is MOBILE access independent of
KIA> availability of PC nearby
I'm an idiot, cell phone turns out to be king... why am I using Ethernet?
at home...
I have some opinions:
1. you are probably an agitator from a mobile operator :-)
2. you are a bad agitator, because you don’t even know the difference between WAP and GPRS, let alone
about the rest
3. you were probably greatly offended by the network admins :-)
4. RTFM will help you!
Have fun!!! I'm a complete fan after reading the thread... :-)
Hello Orionsoft
In general, ethernet without an “iron” stack, in the form, let’s get it ready, WizNet, is unrealistic.
Cards on WizNet cost from $30, and most likely to the end buyer
will cost $40-$50 including delivery... IMHO, it’s not worth the candle, although
maybe if suddenly someone manages to buy and attach it to the spec, then it will be
this dude has great respect and a monument during his lifetime, but he’ll have to stew,
most likely in its own juice. The truth will be revealed hitherto unseen in the country
spec capabilities, such as dhcp, dns, icmp, there will be a unique mac, and others
joys of life. (By the way, WizNet is very well documented.)
And yet, the truth of life is this - there are two more or less real ways:
1) RS232 - SLIP - very simple, but not always available.
2) RS232 - PPP - more complicated, but available almost everywhere, here you have both GPRS and
ADSL, and just a modem over copper.
Hardware - RS232 has been around for a long time. No software. Or almost not...
But then the most interesting part begins - the IP protocol.
But, it seems to me that this no longer applies to the “Iron” section.
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Heh, I go to http://www.sics.se/contiki/ to read the news, and what am I
Nov> see? - "Optimizing HTML for the Contiki Web Browser" Also here are the people
Nov> are working, and judging by the frequency of news, they are working hard.
Yes, I sometimes read there, it’s interesting... There is, for example, in our thread:
http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/
But this Kontiki is very specific... Upon my first acquaintance with her, I
it seemed that it would be difficult to borrow from there, although everything is good
documented.
Hello, Mikka_A
Mik> Pin me one ABC book, I'll blow it...
and the ABC book for me too
Hello, Error404
Err> If you just need a reliable, no-frills copier, then look here:
Err> http://simonowen.com/fdrawcmd/
Err> There is a source code for a copier with 512k sectors, but using the modification method
Err> 2 constants (and recompilation of course) it’s easy to get any
Err> copier. I made this for the Orion format (5x1024) in the evening
Err> (I was still finishing up little things there, according to Orion specifics). Original
Err> the example can already read/write images and format disks.
Err> I checked it in real life - it works in both directions (checked at 3.5" - for me
Err> in real life there is one).
Please discuss copiers in the "Utilities" section.
Hello bpm
bpm> Although, in fact, for complete happiness I would have enough sane
bpm> copier trd<-> trdos disks for Venda (nt/2000/xp).
If you just need a reliable, no-frills copier, then look here:
http://simonowen.com/fdrawcmd/
There is a source code for a copier with 512k sectors, but by changing 2
constants (and recompilation of course) are easy to obtain with any copier. I
for the Orion format (5x1024) I made this in the evening (there are also little things
completed, according to Orion specifics). The original example can already read/write
images and format disks.
I checked it in real life - it works in both directions (I checked it at 3.5" - in my case in real life
this one is worth it).
Hello Orionsoft
Ori> modem is default
Where?
PS: add more gprs and I’ll go kill myself against the wall ;-)