Development of a NEW clone
ZXNet echo conference «hardware.zx»
Hello, All
Background:
Around December 1, 2006, I came across this forum. First of all it was nice
I’m surprised that Spectrum is ALIVE!, and secondly, I was tormented by a longing for light
past and I decided to build a clone. It should be noted that in 1999-2000 I was sitting behind
live spec (I didn’t have a pityuk yet), I really wasn’t satisfied with 48K and
existing video mode. I expanded the memory to 128K according to the standard, but that’s all
higher up to 1M as it turned out. But I never got to the video. Of course there were
attempts to assemble a new controller with its own memory, but all these attempts
stopped after I saw a striped mattress on the monitor screen
(without spec participation). I didn’t attach the memory to them, because: first: not
I could get what I needed, secondly, where did the poor student get the money from...
Now everything has changed. There is enough money, little time, but nevertheless....
What's the point:
After thinking a little, I decided to assemble a clone. But in modern
element base.
Iron:
1. Processor Z84C0020VEC (Z80 20MHz PLCC44 CMOS)
2. RAM K6R4008C1C-15 (SRAM 512K*8 15ns CMOS)x 2 pcs
3. ROM am29F010-90 (128K*8 90ns Flash)
4. Everything else - Altera EP1K30
5. Development board (still being designed)
Concept:
I want to pay special attention to the video controller, which I talk about in detail.
A video controller essentially consists of a clock generator and address counters.The clock generator will have 8 ports designed to store information about
sync pulse width, blanking pulse width, border width, and screen width. So
Thus, it will be possible to completely change the screen parameters and, if possible,
launch 640*480 100Hz mode. Initially, work is underway on 60 and 75Hz mode,
So there is information on these modes. Standard TV mode will also be available
attend.
The Video Controller will also have the following features
configuration:
1. Control of the frequency of the master oscillator, which actually provides
changing TV/VGA resolutions.
2. Address counter control (Spectrum screen addressing/linear addressing
screen memory)
3. Switch screens. The number of these same screens will be limited
amount of RAM.
4. Hardware multicolor up to 256 colors from the 65536 palette, and if you stay
FPGAs have free legs and then 16777216.
5. Hardware scrolling of the screen on both axes.
6. Text mode. in TV mode the character size is 8*8 25 lines, in VGA mode -
19*8 25 lines or 8*8 60 lines. The ability to download fonts is most likely not
will be, because The capabilities of the video controller more than cover this need.
Spectrum as a whole:
The processor frequency will also be set through the I/O ports. I can
I can only say one thing: the processor will work without WAITs theoretically up to 120 s
something MHz... so how will it accelerate :-)Memory addressing. Compatibility up to 128K is guaranteed, then as
trample... Memory manager. Two options are being considered. First: any
a page of RAM from 256 [up to 4 MB] or more (and possibly 65536 [up to 1 GB]) becomes
any quarter of the screen. Second (more complicated): Introduction of hardware segment
register according to the IBM PC principle (2 are added to the contents of the segment register
the most significant bits of the processor address. i.e. if the contents of the register =#DEAD and
the program will address #ABCD, then the real memory address will be equal to
#37ABEBCD). What is difficult... in order not to limit the program by volume
64K or not force programmers to jump from one segment to another,
it is necessary to intercept the COP from the Z80 and while performing memory operations
when executing the command LD A,(HL) LD (HL),A, substitute another register, and so on
more... This way the programmer gets access to a huge amount of memory
data...
Finished version:
The board will have a micro-ATX form factor with 5 62pin system connectors,
An expansion of this connector (like ISA) may also appear.
What has been done so far:
The PCB file for the breadboard is being prepared... I will receive the finished board in 1-2
day. Quatrus simulates the operating modes of the synchronizer... throughout
probability works
Price:
Today, all this pleasure costs me 925 rubles. (fee
it will be free :-)))That's all for now... if you have any suggestions, write... Do you have any questions? I'll answer.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> What do you need??? OpenGL... for example, I'll see what it's like
Meg> draw 25 times per second 640*480=307200 bytes, while Z80 on
Meg> 20 MHz LDIROM can only copy 952380 bytes per second...
Yes, I’m here myself, but I’ve been fighting all over the forum for a year now. :)
The main idea is to separate video memory from the main one and organize it in the form
parallel planes (bringing to mind an EGA-like circuit), which will allow
in many cases, you can speed up the output of graphics only with a wireframe (plus a convenient layout
screen, because due to specific eight-bit limitations, overclocking the Z80 as such is not
saves). And for normal full-color graphics, use a blitter that works for
expansion of SD video memory is very fast (this means that current graphics are also
must be kept "inside").
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> I want to pay special attention to the video controller, which I will talk about in detail
Meg> I’m telling you.
Hykh. There is another attempt to create incompatible petse-shaped
“extensions” based on external features (and there were so many colors and pixels)
by fitting it to the given hardware (it will fit into such and such an FPGA). But you can tick
put - "expanded".
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> no hardware sprites... but next. I'll fix the version
Horrible!! :v2_scare;
AND; why do all hardware people love hardware sprites and other rubbish so much,
stemming from the wretchedness of the element base of the 80s...
Hello Romanich
Rom> Anything can be implemented on FPGAs! And this must be done immediately so
Rom> then don’t regret it and don’t bother!
It is equally important “so as not to regret and not bother later”, there are some things NOT to do
right away. ;)
Rom> There is no need to choose! Suggest some video chip that
Rom> in your opinion, modern and accessible! You feel what it's all about
Rom> rests??? Do not refer to FPGAs!!!
Why not refer to it yourself? We're talking specifically about the Spectrum. This is if you do
something from scratch, you can take ready-made components. And Speck is like a home computer
is universal, and its graphics should remain universal. If in others
home computers once used sprites, it was because there was no other choice
was due to the general weakness of technology.
Plus, the “available” video chips can now hardly be called “modern”.
Rom> I'm talking about the same thing! You need to make a 2D engine (such as DirectDraw) if
Rom> I don't like the sprites.
DirectDraw is a spacer; on Speck everything is “direct”. :)
This is how it should remain for the foreseeable future IMHO.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Damn, isn't it clear! If the iron workers bother with
Rom> software rendering, then they will not have the strength left for the simplest
Rom> toy. They already do a lot, sometimes all the energy runs out and
Rom> I don’t even have the strength to do programming!!! (I know from myself)
Oh, and besides software rendering, you don’t have enough imagination for anything? That is, "since
“We were racing sprites twenty years ago, then we will too.” And you need a piece of hardware like this
design it so that you don’t have to waste energy on programming it later.
Today, what difference does it make - calling a standard procedure that will
change coordinates with attributes for limited sprites, or call
standard procedure that the blitter will program to transfer
arbitrary block? You yourself ask everyone - “and as soon as with these sprites
to be cunning?" ;)
Hello, acidrain
aci> It shouldn't! After all, we are stepping on the same rake, comrades! =) We need to leave
aci> direct-picking in hardware.
“The same rake” is the announcement of the next “new Spec”
"non-Spectrum" expansion. Of course, we need to get away from “picking”, so
just not by order, all the old possibilities and techniques should
stay and be easily accessible (I don't mean not just maintaining 100%
old screen without changes, but in general the established practice of video coding on
Speck).
aci> Then the axis will actually be made and will work on the spec. Topic
aci> more like MegaMyth plans! ;)
Not “especially on this one,” but “only on this one.” ;) How not to get another one
"NewClone computer software" is incompatible with anything. "On Spec" is such an axis
will not work (just work, and not slow down through a bunch of spacers)
basically, including other clones.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> I want to pay special attention to the video controller.
Meg> if you can start the 640*480 100Hz mode.
Meg>
100Hz is a suitable sweep for specking on a VGA.
Just hardware repeat each frame 2 times.
Spec's 50Hz software will look better.
Meg> Initially, work is underway on 60 and 75Hz mode,
Meg>
Not bad either.
Meg> Price:
Meg> Today all this pleasure costs me 925 rubles.
I look at efind.ru, there the EP1K30 itself is 900 rubles. Or am I looking in the wrong place?
Approximately estimate the completely finished (working) board.
(at retail prices for the set.)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> This is how it should remain for the foreseeable future IMHO
It shouldn't! After all, we are stepping on the same rake, comrades! =) We need to get away from
direct-picking in hardware. Then the axle will actually be made and will be on spec
work. Especially on something like MegaMyth plans! ;)
Hello Valen
I'll be interested to see what happens.
If there is software compatibility with the ZX line and large memory with
a standardized bus such as ZX-BUS or its extension compatible with
an old standard bus into which you can stick peripherals...
And a great memory...
And 120 MHz Z-80...
And a video controller... connecting to a standard VGA-SVGA...
And the built-in Nemovsky IDE....
And a built-in 3.5 drive controller....
And built-in PS/2 keyboard-mouse interfaces...
And in the future maybe USB...
In general, Dayosh Super-ZX!
Look, we’ll also surf the Internet on the ZX-Spectrum. For the sake of this I and 200-300
I won’t regret the “raccoons”... :)
People think the same thing, if the car is “real”...
Hello Lethargeek
Let> There is another attempt to create incompatible petse-like
Let> "extensions" by appearance
The video controller will turn out to be good, but with its drawbacks... no
hardware sprites... but next. I'll fix the version
Let> fit into such and such FPGA
If it doesn't fit into this one, then I'll put another one.
ZY Just prepared a breadboard file... heading to work soon... 5-6 hours
and the board is ready...
Hello Lethargeek
Let> And why do all the hardware people love hardware sprites and stuff so much
Let> rubbish stemming from the wretchedness of the element base of the 80s...
What do you need??? OpenGL... I, for example, will see what it will be like to draw
25 times per second 640*480=307200 bytes, while Z80 at 20 MHz LDIROM can
copy only 952380 bytes per second...
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Horrible!! :v2_scare;
Let>; And why do all hardware people love hardware sprites and so on so much
Let> rubbish stemming from the wretchedness of the element base of the 80s...
Damn, isn't it clear? If hardware people bother with software
rendering, then they will not have the strength left for the simplest toy. They are already very
they do a lot, sometimes all the energy runs out and there is no energy to even program
study!!! (I know from myself)
I wish my friend great success in developing his car!
Not everyone is capable of this :)
IMHO it’s better to make a 2D axel based on blitting or sprites than
get bogged down in software...
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Well, is there not enough imagination for anything other than software rendering?...
Let> You yourself ask everyone - “and as soon as with these sprites
Let> be cunning? ;)
Let>
If you were more attentive, you wouldn’t write such nonsense! I don't insist on
sprites, besides them he also mentioned hardware 2D rendering (bitblt and so on with
him...). Anything can be implemented on FPGAs! And this must be done immediately so that
then don’t regret it and don’t bother!
Let> That is, “since they drove sprites twenty years ago, then so do we
Let> we will."
Let>
You don't have to choose! Suggest a video chip that you think
modern and accessible! Do you feel where it all comes down to??? Not on FPGAs
refer!!!
Let> And the piece of hardware needs to be designed in such a way that then the forces on it
Let> don’t waste programming.
Let>
That's what I'm talking about! You need to make a 2D engine (such as DirectDraw) if the sprites are not
I like it.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> 1. Processor Z84C0020VEC (Z80 20MHz PLCC44 CMOS)
Meg> 2. RAM K6R4008C1C-15 (SRAM 512K*8 15ns CMOS)x 2 pcs
Meg>
Hehe! Is this by any chance from CHRV? Like his position ;)
Meg> The Video Controller will also have the following capabilities
Meg> configuration...
Meg>
What is the planned maximum upload speed to the video buffer? (if at all
planned...)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> What do you need??? OpenGL... for example, I'll see what it's like
Meg> draw 25 times per second 640*480=307200 bytes, while Z80 on
Meg> 20 MHz LDIROM can only copy 952380 bytes per second...
At one time I made software rendering on LCD 128x128pixel 256color
sent video data to LCD at a speed of 16 Mbit/s - shift register, data
formed by the AVR controller. There was a video buffer (transparency color/clipping)...
The speed was acceptable.
The Z80, of course, won’t be able to handle this, so you need to assemble an axel! There was an idea for the same
LCD to hang ATmega8515 - actually axel - blitting/smart
filter/clipping/semi-transparency/scaling/....
But then I fell into the hands of V9990 and I changed my mind...
In any case, the zetnik needs an axel, otherwise the graph will suck in terms of speed
Hello Valen
Val> I look at efind.ru, there the EP1K30 itself is 900 rubles. Or am I looking in the wrong place?
Val>
go to terraelectronics, it costs 500-600 rubles there... I haven’t bought it yet...
QUOTE=Valen]Evaluate the approximately fully finished (working) board.
(at retail prices for the set.)[/QUOTE]
We're not talking about the price yet... When everything is done, then we'll talk...
Well, I don’t think there will be more than 100 raccoons... but maybe there will be... fees today
dears :-)
Hello MegaMyth
ActiveHDL should be used for fast simulation
Hello MegaMyth
“For example, I think that at a price of ~$100 there should be a 20-buck arm
(180mips). And programmatically emulate the spec."
Better than 200 mips, plus USB host, plus dma for all channels...
And at the same time watch a movie or drive an MP-3...
Yes, since the title is "Development of a NEW clone" ...
Who will say - the distant chip is compatible with msx2?
Hello, acidrain
aci> Let's do this: who will need to buy/use such a new spec, and you won't
aci> you will, ok? =)
aci>
Whoa.
The simplest solution.
For example, I think that at a price of ~$100 there should be a 20 bucks arm
(180mips). And programmatically emulate the spec.
Making expensive piece boards, what to solder there is relatively
low-power 20MHz z80, IMHO, uneconomical.
All this is IMHO and may differ from reality.
Overall the project is interesting.
Yes, I would also like the clone to be widely distributed.
Buying a “rarity in a frame” is no fun.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> “The same rake” is the announcement of the next “new Spec”
Let> "non-Spectrum" extension. To avoid "picking" of course
Let> it is necessary, but not by order, all the old possibilities and
Let> techniques should remain and be easily accessible (I don't mean not
Let> just keep 100% of the old screen without changes, but generally
Let> the established practice of video coding on Spec).
Let’s do this: who will need to buy/use such a new spec, but you won’t, ok?
=)
In fact, the situation, of course, is being escalated by several people to the point of impossible. But here it is
an excursion into the parallel world of retro computers. A division also occurred on the Amiga. But there
a more serious situation, the new clones emulate the current processor and axis, and the most important thing
(chipset) is not simulated. So this approach is nonsense, but with
backward compatibility, as proposed in this project, is development and nothing
more. And in general philosophy in other branches, ok? ;)
Hello hero
her> ActiveHDL should be used for fast simulation
Or ModelSim from MentorGraphics
Hello, falanger
and it’s not fun to climb into the PC? it is necessary to invent a new one for this
spec mutant? It seems to me that if you make access to the net, then it should be
also available in regular spec. otherwise, like most extensions, it will remain
just entertainment for the developer and will not be distributed.
Those. I mean that, like a HFMD, it is possible to attach it to everyone
specks, here we go. And they adapted the software that had already been written and wrote a new one. Yes and
with net. And new software will be written for the network (ftp, icq, irc, etc.) and existing
software is adapted (for example, some toys). As for the web, I don’t see any buzz
viewing it on a screen even 640x480 with poor color. Is it purely for
fun to show to friends (and for this purpose buy a new spec and your old one
the machine is on the shelf gathering dust... hmm... it's a pity...). I think clean is better
make specialized pages (like wap or for PDA), anyway
No one except spektrumists will visit them.
Hello, The Exploited
The> write software for any existing ZX and it will climb. iron is not
The> and
Kind of made me laugh. ;)
Try to reflect at least 256 palette on the 6 kb screen of the original ZX
minimal. :v2_wink2:
Hello, acidrain
I'm for a ZX from which you can surf the Internet and not just BBS!
:v2_yahoo:
Hello, Mikka_A
Mik> and he’s right.
Mik>
Mik> how do you see emulation of the simplest 640 by 480?
I see that the PC is primarily adapted for this purpose. I also wanted the same thing
tell by xxxx mips arma running the unreal euulator
Hello, Mikka_A
Mik> no, of course you can, as I have to at the dacha so that the traffic doesn’t pass
Mik> went down the drain, turn off the graphics completely.
not funny. I'm on adsl and off. pictures
Mik> mail, and asya - these are really possible things.
as well as ftp, irc, and there is also a www by email service
Mik> and vvv....
Mik> but the controller needs to be prepared for it.
controller of what??
Hello, falanger
fal> Kinda made me laugh.
fal> Try to reflect at least 256 on the 6 kb screen of the original ZX
fal> minimal palette.
I won't respond to this reply
Hello, falanger
fal> I am for the ZX from which you can surf the Internet and not just on
fal> BBScam!
write software for any existing ZX and it will climb. iron has nothing to do with it
Hello, The Exploited
The> I will not respond to this remark
and he's right.
How do you see emulation of the simplest 640 by 480?
no, of course you can, like I have to at the dacha so that ZhPRS traffic doesn’t fly into
pipe, turn off the graphics completely.
Yes, in this mode, and then, IMHO, somehow, something can be done.
and so.
Alas. Impossible
mail, and asya - these are really possible things.
and wow....
but the controller needs to be prepared for it.
Hello Valen
Val> For example, I think that at a price of ~$100 it should be there
Val> 20 bucks arm (180 mips). And programmatically emulate the spec.
Finally, there is such a computer. Called Acorn RiSC PC (development
Archimedes).
Who is preventing it from being cloned and developed if desired? ;)
Val> Yes, I would also like the clone to be widely distributed.
Val> Buying a “rarity in a frame” is not fun.
So it will be a rarity, especially if the new video modes are tailored to
circuitry of this particular clone. IMHO it's high time for all sorts of things
do video extensions “from the outside”.
Hello, acidrain
aci> Let's do this: who will need to buy/use such a new spec
aci> So this approach is nonsense, but with backward compatibility, as
aci> proposed in this project, this is a development and nothing more. And in general
aci> philosophy in other branches, ok? ;)
All that remains is to understand - the development of what? With Amiga and later "amigas" like
since everything is clear, they are developing precisely “ideology in its pure form” in isolation from
iron And regarding Speck, I’m just interested in people’s motivations,
who first return to Speck (tired of pts?), and then under the slogans
“developments” are starting to mold something petse-like out of it (are you tired of it?!).
:v2_wacko:
Hello Lethargeek
> So it will be a rarity, especially if there are new video modes
> are tailored to the circuitry of this particular clone. IMHO it's been a long time already
> it’s time to do all sorts of video extensions “outside”.
that's it for sure! as the base is the mother of pure spec, do you want advanced video modes,
you cut off the video controller card.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> PC is the PC. He has no soul
here!
These are the words that should be the basis of a new project!!!!
Meg> for your own pleasure.
Exactly! That is why speck is alive.
it has no practical application!
it has SOULful uses.
And I, for example, like the idea of mother + cards.
There is an Original Sinclair Reaserch LTD 1982
I wanted a beta disk - chick card.
If you want a Zheniral sound, here it is, let’s plug it in in a minute.
BUT the base must remain the one that was laid by Mr. Sinclair.
Hello jager
The Exploited
jag> that's for sure! as a base - the mother of pure spec, do you want video modes
jag> extended, you cut off the video controller card.
I'm talking about this.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> And regarding Speck, I’m just interested in people’s motivations
Let> which first return to Spec (tired of pts?), and then under
Let> with the slogans of “development” they begin to mold it into something petse-like (pts
Let> aren't you tired?!).
PC he is PC. He has no soul, because... this computer is being created and developed
just for the money! I didn’t get into specs to make money!
Many people are now developing hardware, software for it... and also not
for the sake of money, but for pleasure. And the fact that there are many conservatives makes me
As an enthusiast, it’s upsetting, but not to the extent that the first would like.
Hello, Mikka_A
Meg> PC is the PC. He has no soul, because... this computer is created and
Meg> develops only for the sake of money! I didn’t take up specking for the sake of
Meg> in order to earn money! Many people are now developing
Meg> hardware, help for him... and also not for the sake of money, but for his own
Meg> pleasure. And the fact that there are many conservatives, I like
Meg> upsets the enthusiast, but not to the extent we would like
Meg> first.
Yes, I’m not talking about money... In order to be “serious” (this of course does not mean that
"effective") to program on PC, you need to regularly read mountains of waste paper -
On Spec, one head is enough. This is what needs to be saved. Therefore, the transition to
new video modes etc. should be as smooth and painless as possible even for
not a very experienced amateur coder, do not force him to “restructure his thinking”
every time.
Mik> BUT the base must remain the one that was laid by the master
Mik> Sinclair.
Altwasser and later the “Spaniards” inventors. ;)
ASD> Who can say - the distant chip is compatible with msx2?
Afaik, backward compatibility is not 100%, it was attached to MSX only as a quality
additions (not replacements).
Hello Lethargeek
Let> So it will be a rarity, especially if there are new video modes
Let> are tailored to the circuit design of this particular clone. IMHO it's been a long time already
Let> it's time to do all sorts of video extensions "outside".
I'm only in favor of an external video card that plugs into the bus.
Perhaps the author does not need to try to invent it himself
video extensions.
Hello ASDT
ASD> Who can say - the distant chip is compatible with msx2?
In what way are we compatible? It’s better to look for it on sites and forums of MSH fans. Most likely yes
than not ;)
Hello Valen
2 MegaMyth; Not; listen to the pessimists, do as you like! when you do it to everyone
It will be interesting, even for those who shouted “what the hell” ;)
Hello jager
Yes, I just want to support a person :)
Hello skyther
2 skyther;
1.; What does pessimism have to do with it? maybe conservatism?
2. if we follow your logic, why would a person even need to write?
about what he intends to do? well, I would do it quietly and get it
pleasure.
3. from 2. it follows that the person wants to communicate and do so that not only
he was the only one interested.
2 all?:
my IMHO, now all these features implemented on the mother are completely unnecessary,
Previously, during spec, these were attempts to fight for the market, now... and what
Now... only 2 (?) models are available to order (ATM, Pentagon 1024). Not
I think their goal is to fight for the market. And why will these be needed?
non-standard extensions? As I wrote above, those who have a spec are unlikely to
buy a new one just because of these unsupported extensions (who will buy?
collector, one who does not have a real spec, well, there are a few exceptions from
proposed rule, and that's it). And it’s unlikely that software will be written, except for 1-2 demos
written, for example, by the author. And if the extensions are in a form accessible to many
owners of old/new real specs, then there is already something to think about,
the target audience is wider.
Hello MegaMyth
“And the fact that there are many conservatives upsets me as an enthusiast, but not in
to the extent that we would like to be the first."
Don't be afraid! :) Conservatism is a means of combating various
"malicious innovations" ... :)
"Who can say - the distant chip is compatible with msx2?"
"Afaik backward compatibility is not 100%, it was attached to MSX only as
additions (not replacements)."
Then it's dead...
"And why will these non-standard extensions be needed?"
I've been asking this question for a long time now...
I can also screw up all sorts of bullshit, but
I'm stopping myself... :)
"If you mean extensions for ATM, then they are very much supported by the software, and
very much continue to be supported."
Relative to zero... very much.
Hello Lethargeek
and will it be possible to remove BORDER altogether?!
Hello jager
jag> my IMHO, now all these features implemented on the mother are completely inappropriate
jag> are needed, earlier, in the days of spec, these were attempts to fight for the market
jag> now... and what now... only 2 (?) models are available to order
jag> (ATM, Pentagon 1024). I don’t think that their goal is to fight for
jag> market. And why will these non-standard extensions be needed? As I already
jag> wrote above, those who have a spec are unlikely to buy a new one only
jag> because of these unsupported extensions (who will buy?
jag> collector, one who does not have a real spec, well, several
jag> exceptions to the proposed rule, that's all). And it’s unlikely to be written
jag> software, except for 1-2 demos written, for example, by the author. What if
jag> extensions will be available to many owners of old/new ones
jag> real specs, then there is already something to think about, the target audience
jag> wider.
I am writing not to renew the argument-swearing, not to prove the “true
spectrum", and not for "pushing" ATM, but only for restoring
elementary justice:If we mean extensions for ATM, then they are very much supported by the software, and
very much continue to be supported. So the owners of this piece of hardware will
include these modes not only to show guests that “and other things
I have it on Spectrum."
Hello MegaMyth
"I want to say one more thing... whoever is not interested in this project - just don’t
read and do not write in this thread..."
You might think this is a unique project...
Just recently I finished my “clone”..., and
I have my own opinion...
And this looks like another “chimera” :)
Hello MegaMyth
"And will it be possible to remove BORDER altogether?!"
So I removed it completely...
I think this should be done.
Hello ASDT
Meg> PC is the embodiment of an almost perfect, affordable machine with
Meg> architecture built in the best traditions of computing
Meg> systems...
There are no words. I even rubbed my eyes just in case. :v2_blink;
Yes; Only in recent years have they begun to pull this “perfect machine” out of
insanity of the original developers (and with a fair loss of reverse
compatibility). Just make a “new Spec” (and a new computer in general) like
Single enthusiasts have little guts about “today’s” PC. There will be a resemblance again
"yesterday's" pc. Apparently people have forgotten what it is.
Meg> And about the video controller... let's ask the programmers
Meg> who forge software and work with graphics... is it easier for them to work with
Meg> linear memory addressing or with Spectrum-type addressing....
You need to ask using specific examples, not abstract ones “like this and that.”
Any addressing decision should not be an end in itself, but a means of increasing
code efficiency.
Meg> For both, I provide a choice - either one or the other...
I even know what they will choose. They will actually “vote with software” - as always.
Meg> and even the possibility of using both addressingMeg> at the same time...
At the same time, in this particular case - how is this?
Hello hero
her> I want a 60Hz sweep with a NoFlic (or something like that) filter.
her> Not every monitor can do 100Hz, but everyone can do 60!
It would be nice to do both 100Hz (for CRT) and 60Hz (for TFT).
At 100Hz, the Speck screen is shown 2 times in a row.
At 60Hz you need some kind of filter to “scatter”
specov frames (50Hz) to VGA frames (60Hz).
If there are new regimes, you already need to think about whether they can
generate video controller
1) 640*480*256 85Hz. (for CRT people)
2) 640*480*256 60Hz. (for TFT people)
Hello MegaMyth
2 MegaMyth;
>; I want to say one more thing... who is not interested in this project - just
> do not read or write in this thread... if someone doesn't care
> if you like it - write to me, it will be interesting and I will take it into account...
Something is not clear, first the person asks to be offered suggestions,
when people started offering something slightly different from what the developer wanted, he did them all
called those “who are not interested in the project.” It's a shame. If you have already decided everything a long time ago,
why ask then? I'm very interested in the new spec. And since you
call the PC an advanced architecture, then why do you make it pre-built into
video controller system?
2 Maxagor: I respect you terribly and didn’t want to offend you (if that’s the case). Please
Sorry if you were offended by my opinion. This is just my opinion. :-)
Hello MegaMyth
I want a 60Hz scan with a NoFlic (or something like that) filter.
Not every monitor can do 100Hz, but everyone can do 60Hz!
Hello hero
And what exactly is ACEX?? it is almost 3 times more expensive per macrocell compared to
same as the first cyclone, but the cost is almost the same
Hello, Maksagor
> Nothing grabbed me at all. Honestly. :)
> I just clarified your point about the software’s support for specific modes
> specific clone. So to speak, I made my own corrections to the information. Not at all
> not with the purpose in this case of exposing someone, starting a dispute, etc..
> Well, like, if one says - “the speed of light is 300,000 km per
> second", and the other responded - "I want to clarify - 300,000 km per second
> vacuum!"
>
> So that's it! :)
Where is the spherical horse located?
Hello jager
jag> 2 Maxagor: I respect you terribly and did not want to offend you (if this
jag> so). I apologize if you are offended by my opinion. It's just mine
jag> opinion. :-)
Nothing grabbed me at all. Honestly. :)
I just clarified your point about the software’s support for specific modes of a specific
clone. So to speak, I made my own corrections to the information. Not at all for this purpose
case of exposing someone, starting an argument, etc.. Well, like, if one says -
“the speed of light is 300,000 km per second,” and the other responded: “I want to clarify -
300,000 km per second in a vacuum!"
So that's the way to go! :)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> 100-120MHz is the theoretical frequency of the Z80 at which it can
Meg> work with current memory and FPGA...
So is the percent in the crust or is it still real?
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> initially there will be 1 processor at 20 MHz... but as knowledgeable people say
Meg> - it should accelerate to 28-30 MHz...
?
Meg> I do not rule out the possibility that the Z80 will be created “in crust”... if
Meg> will be required...
The numbers 100-120 MHz probably refer to the crust?
Hello MegaMyth
Eh... words... words... forgive me, of course, but I don’t believe in implementation
similar things in hardware. Because at the moment there are only 2 people who
they did something and brought it to a finished structure. This is Camille
Karimov and Roman Chunin. That's all.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> Nowadays, indeed, the VC is on the same board with the CPU, because fee
Meg> breadboard... in the final version it will be a separate board with its own
Meg> memory..
It's high time to move video and sound into separate devices that can be connected
to the tire. And don’t try to quickly solve all problems.
Regarding memory, IMHO
- at least a meter for z80
- at least 2 meters, on a video card
Hello MegaMyth
2 MegaMyth;
A; Memory, as I understand it, is not planned in the form of modules or is this temporary? if
modules, which one do you plan to use? preferably something affordable. I'm here
I was looking for myself in the city for a simm from 1MB 30 pins for a Pentagon 1024SL, somehow I found it.
Hello MegaMyth
2 MegaMyth;
And; This card will feature both a standard Spectrum screen and
advanced modes?
and the possibility of screwing this card to other spec models is probably not
Is it really possible to implement it without plowing up this speck (if it’s possible at all)?
By the way, have you decided which expansion bus you will have? will it be compatible with
ZX-BUS? what else do you plan to place on the motherboard (sound/fdd/hdd/controller
mice/keyboards from the PC)?
Hello MegaMyth
2MegaMyth:
No, I'm not talking about video memory, but about the RAM of the machine itself.
Hello hero
2 hero;
Well; then this is very wonderful, in the new clone not only introduce new
video standards, :-) but also to implement the possibility of expanding compatible with
these video standards for other clones.
Hello hero
Video 320x240 at 32000 colors looks great, so if the screen
can support mpeg-4(3gp), then nothing more is needed. And changing tables, and also
better rotation of the surface of the sphere will provide placement of many screen
objects associated with applications. Be more design oriented
to modern mobile solutions - it is much simpler and more interesting than
desktops and laptops. And the market is freer. Moreover, it is cheaper in terms of
portable LCD (OLED) displays...it’s high time to give up on CRT TVs!
Hello MegaMyth
Too voracious for a banal synchronizer, you need to pervert it, for example 12
There is no need for a vertical bit in the counter, then to store the length of the arms
sync pulses and shoulder size maximum required 7 bits (horizontal) and 4-5
bits (vertical), then it’s stupid to make a separate address counter for memory
it is necessary to form from the values of the counters, again, fewer resources are grabbed, otherwise
For such a small module, fit 200 macrocells
Hello Valen
Meg> From CHRV;
I; I don’t understand what you wanted to achieve with this :) Or after the quote Z80 at 100 MHz
will it work??
By the way, what is included in the already described sync generator? (otherwise if you understand
literally he stole too much for a set of counters)
Hello icebear
ice> The numbers 100-120 MHz probably refer to the crust?
Yes, MiniRISC (also cut off) does not work at this frequency in the FPGA TV80
especially
Hello jager
jag> the possibility of screwing this card to other spec models probably
jag> is not realistic to implement without plowing this spec (if at all
jag> will it really be)? By the way, have you decided which expansion bus you will have?
jag> will it be compatible with ZX-BUS?
There is nothing stopping you from making an external card, the only problem is the lack of
external expansion connector, you can make an external device for which to cut
Finally, nothing is needed, although it would be much easier to make a devi with 1 cut (INT
start up the equipment on percent)
Hello jager
What language is used to describe the device???
Hello ASDT
ASD> "and will it be possible to remove BORDER altogether?!"
Absolutely all time characteristics are programmed...
Hello, Evgeny Muchkin
Evg> Eh... words... words... forgive me, of course, but I don’t believe in
Evg> implementation of such things in hardware. Because at the moment there are only
Evg> 2 people who did something and brought it to completion
Evg> constructions. These are Kamil Karimov and Roman Chunin. And that's it.
From CHRV; So; I personally know MegaMyth and consider it quite professional
ironworker, then I hope for his project. So if everything goes well for him,
then I’ll connect at the second stage of design (i.e. after receiving
working prototype). The purpose of cooperation is modification and obtaining
functionality discussed within our expert group. If everything goes well
goes according to plan and without failures, then the project will be put into production.
Perhaps the projects will not be merged, but at least the necessary exchange
information and decisions are constantly happening.
Hello, Evgeny Muchkin
jag> No, I'm not talking about video memory, but about the RAM of the machine itself.
I can’t say anything definite yet about the RAM of the machine itself...
for now I'll use video memory as regular RAM for the Z80... more to come
visible... but DIMMs are definitely canceled... :-)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Yes, this “perfect machine” has only begun to be pulled out in recent years
Let> from the insanity of the original developers (and with a fair loss
Let> backward compatibility).
It has been very precisely noted that recently they have begun to steal... also from
speck... those who do nothing never make mistakes.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Quote:
Let> Message from MegaMyth
Let> and even the possibility of using both addressing
Let> at the same time...
Let>
Let>
Let> Simultaneously in this particular case - how?
a simple out to the port will change the addressing mode....
Hello Romanich
Rom> 100-120MHz
100-120MHz is the theoretical frequency the Z80 can operate at
current memory and FPGA... at a frequency of 120 MHz maximum data flow
is 40 MHz - and this is real on this chip..
Hello Romanich
Rom> Can you post diagrams and/or documents for your car?
Rom> In particular, I am interested in the hardware implementation of the video processor
There is nothing to post yet... there is only a development board on which the processor is installed
memory (2*512kb memory) and altera.
Hello Valen
Val> It would be nice to do both 100Hz (for CRT) and 60Hz (for TFT).
Val> At 100Hz, the speck screen is shown 2 times in a row.
Val> At 60Hz you need some kind of filter to “scatter”
Val> specov frames (50Hz) to VGA frames (60Hz).
Val>
Val> If there are new modes, you already need to think about whether it will be able
Val> generate video controller
Val> 1) 640*480*256 85Hz. (for CRT people)
Val> 2) 640*480*256 60Hz. (for TFT people)
Well, according to calculations on paper... 100Hz is reality... how it will be in practice
time will tell...
Hello andrews
and> Focus more when developing on modern mobile
and> solutions are much simpler and more interesting than desktop ones and
and> laptops. And the market is freer. Moreover, it is cheaper in terms of
and> portable LCD (OLED) displays...it's high time for CRT TVs
and> score!
Almost everyone has VGA... on VGA you can change the screen resolution as
whatever you want, but if you install a separate LCD with a resolution of 640*480 - how much is that?
will it cost? Isn't it cheaper to take a used 15" LCD? which will also handle 1024?
Hello hero
her> What language is used to describe the device???
AHDL
Hello hero
her> By the way, what is included in the already described sync generator?? (otherwise if
her> taken literally, he stole too much for a set of counters)
the clock generator is implemented on 2 12-bit counters and 8 registers, in
which load the operating parameters, the rest is fine logic... also worth
a separate address counter for video memory... it's really 20-bit... I think
that's enough... after which there is a multiplexer that switches the addressing
linear or spectrum... half a liter (palette) is not organized yet... I will have it
draw when I assemble the breadboard and see the real picture on VGA and not in the form
graphs in the simulator...
11 percent of the EP1K30QC208-3 chip is occupied for all this.
Hello icebear
ice> So is the percentage in the crust or is it still real?
initially there will be 1 processor at 20 MHz... but as knowledgeable people say - it
should accelerate to 28-30 MHz...
I don’t rule out the possibility that a Z80 will be created “in crust”... if necessary...
Hello jager
jag> 2 MegaMyth;
jag>; Quote:
jag> I want to say one more thing... who is not interested in this project - just
jag> don't read or write in this thread... if someone doesn't care
jag> if you like it - write to me, it will be interesting and I will take it into account...
jag>
jag>
jag> Something is not clear, first the person asks for suggestions
jag> were offered when people began to offer something slightly different from what they wanted
jag> developer, he called all of them those “who are not interested in the project.”
About offers... there are none! the only thing that was there were VGA modes... and
a lot of questions were asked... both about addressing memory pages... and about
CPU expansion... and about video modes... but for some reason on the first two questions
no one wrote anything or it was written but very good. few... everyone focused on
video! Apparently this is a really sore point. and it needs to be solved, but at the same time
It’s unclear why there are so many opponents...
Let's take a different path then... let's raise a separate issue for
discussion... and speak out only on one specific issue. as soon as
the golden mean will be reached, let's move on to the next question...
Hello jager
jag> And since you call the PC an advanced architecture, then why do you do it
jag> video controller pre-built into the system?
Nowadays, indeed, VK is on the same board with the CPU, because... breadboard... in
In the final version, it will be a separate board with its own memory..
Hello jager
jag> and as I understand it, the memory is not planned in the form of modules or is this temporary?
jag> if modules, which one do you plan to use? preferably something
jag> available. I was here in my city looking for simm from 1MB 30 pins for
jag> Pentagon 1024SL, somehow found it.
The memory on the video card will be SRAM. microcircuits in SOJ36 package... 2 pieces each
512KB - 15 ns... there is something faster... this is the simplest solution at this stage...
I bought these microcircuits from CHRV; I think they cost 90 rubles for 1 piece.
Hello jager
jag> and a standard Spectrum screen will be implemented on this card
jag> and extended modes?
jag>
jag> and the possibility of screwing this card to other spec models
jag> is probably not realistic to implement without plowing this spec (if
Will jag> actually be possible)? By the way, we haven’t decided which expansion bus you have
jag> will it be? will it be compatible with ZX-BUS? what else do you expect
jag> place on the motherboard (sound/fdd/hdd/mouse/keyboard controller from
jag> PC)?
Both standard and extended all on one board...
The ZX_Bus bus... provided that it has a memory shutdown signal... (not yet
studied because hasn't been necessary yet)
FDD turbocharged, HDD, 2 PS/2 + RS232 ports (but this has not yet been agreed with
create circuits on ATMEGA8515)...
Sound - exclusively with a separate card... in principle, you can also take out an FDD HDD
on a separate board, but I don’t think that these circuits will have significant
changes
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> PC is the embodiment of an almost perfect, affordable machine with
Meg> architecture built in the best traditions of computing
Meg> systems.... and those who are against this - either wish for Spectrum
Meg> continued to die... or they are simply jealous that they didn’t do it themselves
Meg> suggested...
Meg>
The PC is a bunch of anachronisms i8088, 64kB ISA Video Card, dangerous and confusing
VGA registers + new additions about which no one except Windows writers
does not officially know... Endless, abrupt information about peripheral registers,
slow 16-bit and useless BIOS, etc., etc... Any peripheral is
caral reef, which is overgrown with anachronisms, innovations,
improvements...
In a word, to understand what PC is, read the books: Kulakov.
Programming at the hardware level. Zubkov. Asm for DOS/Windows/Unix. Plus
lectures on protected mode with working examples (showing real
ugliness of the registers GDTR, LDTR,.... and much more).
In general, the IBM PC is a machine focused on business applications. Like a game
The platform does not work without nvidia and ati...
All imho
Hello Lethargeek
Meg> a simple out to port will change the addressing mode....
Wow, how simple did it all turn out to be, and how did I not realize it right away? :D
It's not about addressing as such, but about the data storage format. If it is different
in the old and new modes ("bytes per point" vs "bits per point"), then after the change
addressing to "non-native" during any operation of reading or writing a raster by the processor
it is necessary to convert from linear to bitplane format (and
vice versa), which means you have to read a big bunch of bits every time and
scatter.
Meg> About the offers... there are none! the only thing that was there were modes
Meg> VGA...
VGA sucks, it’s not for eight-bit computers (I mean the layout and
programming).
Meg> I can’t say anything about the RAM of the machine itself
Meg> certain... for now I will use video memory as regular RAM
Meg> for Z80... we'll see later... but DIMMs are definitely being cancelled... :-)
Eight-bit? Calculate how much video memory is scanned in a frame
will eat at 640x480...
You can immediately forget about overclocking the gunner.
Hello hero
Rom> So I’m thinking, maybe I can even make my own video chip? Of those considered
Rom> nothing rolled in at all. Chip developers do not coordinate their work with
Rom> players are lying, and that's a pity!
+1
Rom> I'm ready to write documentation for such an axel. But in such a spirit that
Rom> the chip satisfied the programmers for 2D acceleration. It is weighed in iron
Rom> only by encoder (if on TV) and memory
It would be very interesting to read your docs and compare our projects and theirs
planned characteristics.
Hello MegaMyth
I think FDD should be left on the motherboard, since it’s definitely unlikely that
It will change when it happens, but I think it’s better to make the HDD as a separate card. Yes
How then is there a choice of what to use as an HDD/CF/SD drive.
Of course, you can plug in an ATA-CF converter instead of the screw... I don’t know, in general
Thoughts like this, maybe I'm wrong... :-)
Hello MegaMyth
Is there an MMU planned? It wouldn’t be bad to launch on such a promising machine,
the most advanced axis (I'm talking about Linux). Some, albeit inferior,
an arithmetic coprocessor would also be nice for floating-point calculations
dot.
Hello, falanger
FDD is better on a separate board in a slot because it is becoming less and less reliable
information carrier, and the volume of the carrier will be too small, but to replace it
use CF
On the forum, if you search, there are examples of their successful connection
and another question for MegaMyth: 1 approximately what dimensions is the planned new board?
(Is 16x16 cm possible?)
2 Will the new board be equipped with
all sorts of PAL and
other coders
Hello oistalker
IHMO HDD according to the NEMO scheme, for example, needs to be on the board like FDD.
And shove the rest into the slots... Because without a hard drive or CF through an adapter
sour now, unless of course the user is a masochist.
PS/2, RS-232, ZX LPRINT 3 must also be on the board. Because it's minimal
peripherals necessary for normal use along with storage devices. If
Of course, Spectrum is not a replacement for a dandy...
Hello hero
her> Too voracious for a banal synchronizer, you need to pervert it
her> for example, 12 vertical bits are not needed in the counter, further for storage
her> the length of the sync arms and the maximum size of the arms required is 7 bits
her> (horizontal) and 4-5 bits (vertical), then it’s stupid for memory
her> make a separate counter, the address must be formed from the values of the counters
her> again, it grabs fewer resources, otherwise it’s too much for such a small module
her> 200 macrocells
Initially, the counters were smaller, but were enlarged so that there was
ability to display images up to 1024*768. It should also be remembered that
8 registers of 8 bytes each are organized in the PLS for setting synchronizer parameters
(4 for each axis), and this is already 64 MY. During the operation of the device and
debug bits not needed will be released...everything is under development...tomorrow
in the morning I will receive 2 development boards... on Thursday/Friday I will purchase EP1K50QC208-3 (it
150 ru more expensive but 66% more ventels) some ideas appeared about
which later...
Hello hero
I offer a single ZX construct:
http://www.zx.pk.ru/showthread.php?p=70845#post70845
Hello hero
ASD> Resolution 320x240... I made it for myself.
ASD> Why? First, no one spoke up in defense
ASD> of the old curb, i.e. now he can't be
ASD> justified.
I, I speak “in defense”! :v2_conf2;
Speck; without curb in standard mode - INCORRECT Spec. ;)
Here is the PAL standard 352x288 visible area.
The Pentagon is displayed with a 384x304 border (okay, it’s crooked).
Scorpio with a border 368x296 (and the branded Speck afaik too).
How to fit into standard VGA frequencies?
There is, for example, a standard 360x240 mode
On CRT you can try configuring ~360x288 (maybe even at 50Hz)
Fit in "400x300" (as standard 800x600) with scandling or
interlace (stretching along a line is not a problem). At the same time there will be an opportunity
mode with double resolution only horizontally (for normal text
There is no need to increase the vertical resolution).
Hello MegaMyth
From the point of view of linear addressing by the z80 processor, the optimal screen height is 256
pixels. :)
In this case, video memory is a contiguous block with very fast
calculation of addresses. :)
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Uh... it was on VGA tn Q-Mode 256x256x256 colors...
Not kosher. It is more convenient for the human eye to look at something “elongated” horizontally
image because his eyes are on the same horizontal line.
Hello, captain cobalt
Um... it was on VGA tn Q-Mode 256x256x256 colors...
Hello MegaMyth
"Well, there was a similar joke from AlCo called 384x304"
Based on it, yes.
“I, I speak “in defense”!
Spec without a curb in standard mode - INCORRECT Spec. "
Post in the topic "correct spec"...
"How to fit frequencies into standard VGA?
There is, for example, a standard mode of 360x240"
There is a 320x240 LCD ... Converter to VGA
doesn't seem that complicated...
"256x256x256 colors..."
As for 256 colors or higher, there are not even any considerations.
You can save something, but... for what reasons?
Hello, Evgeny Muchkin
Evg> Eh... words... words... forgive me, of course, but I don’t believe in
Evg> implementation of such things in hardware. Because at the moment there are only
Evg> 2 people who did something and brought it to completion
Evg> constructions. These are Kamil Karimov and Roman Chunin. And that's it.
Great. And they forgot me
Hello, falanger
fal> I'll see with interest what happens.
fal> If there is software compatibility with the ZX line and large memory with
fal> standardized bus for example ZX-BUS or its extension
fal> compatible with the old standard bus that can be plugged into
fal> periphery...
fal> And large memory...
fal> And 120 MHz Z-80...
fal> And a video controller... connecting to a standard VGA-SVGA...
fal> And the built-in Nemovsky IDE....
fal> And a built-in 3.5 drive controller....
fal> And built-in PS/2 keyboard-mouse interfaces...
fal> And in the future maybe USB...
fal> In general, Dayosh Super-ZX!
fal> Look, let's also surf the Internet on the ZX-Spectrum. For this reason I
fal> I won’t regret 200-300 “raccoons”... :)
fal> People think the same, if the car is “real”...
Yes, my friend, you are a ps-schnik...
Hello MegaMyth
"It seems that somewhere there was a 512x192 BW mode of two pages."
There is an expansion of the frequency range
signal (by brightness). Those. there's still something to think about...
"Like 320-384x256." I thought that the stock was 384-320=64,
wouldn't hurt (quenching, for example).
320x2=640 and 240x2=480
320x3=960(1024-64) and 240x3=720 (768-48)
Does it seem normal?
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> It seems that somewhere there was a 512x192 BW mode of two pages. Why not
Nov> make it the same color?
Well, this is only within the standard window. For the entire screen you need 720-768x256 - in
800x600 will fit well (there will only be a small border at the top/bottom and
slight on the sides).
The size of the square low-res pixel relative to the screen size must be preserved
like on Spec. IMO.
Hello MegaMyth
Let> This is within the standard window only. Need full screen
Let> 720-768x256 - will fit well into 800x600 (there will only be a small border
Let> top/bottom and minor on the sides).
Let>
Let> The size of a square low-res pixel relative to the screen size needed
Let> save as on Spec. IMO.
Why not have smaller square pixels?
Like 320-384x256.
To fit into 400x300.
Hello KingOfEvil
It seems that somewhere there was a 512x192 BW mode of two pages. Why not make one like this
is it colored? Or, if the hunt is larger, 512x256. And just within the page
Q-Mode =)
Hello MegaMyth
"Horizontal 320/640/960... these are piss"
The monitors are now just like this... Alas.
Hello, captain cobalt
cap> Why not have smaller square pixels?
cap>
cap> Type 320-384x256.
cap> To fit into 400x300.
That's exactly what I meant.
In 768x256, each 384x256 square pixel is "cut in half"
ASD> I thought the stock was 384-320=64,
ASD> won't hurt (quenching, for example).
ASD> 320х2=640 and 240х2=480
ASD> 320x3=960(1024-64) and 240x3=720 (768-48)
ASD> Does it seem normal?
Horizontal 320/640/960... these are pussy :v2_sick; standard sizes; not Spekov's
360 and 400/800 modes are closest to Spec
The suppression is already there
Hello MegaMyth
I don't want to bring up my old thread...
I'll write here :)
Planned "Stalingrad-2":
2-processor (user and system)
System is used for dma and graphics acceleration.
+ Card controller (allows you to double the reading speed -
entries on cards)
Video - 320x240 (and standard) - RGB, PAL and SVGA output.
Additional colors.
Hello ASDT
ASD> The monitors now remain like this... Alas.
Monitors do not impose resolution, make it at least 31x563
Hello ASDT
ASD> Planned "Stalingrad-2":
ASD> 2-processor (user and system)
ASD> System is used for dma and graphics acceleration.
ASD> +Card controller (allows you to double the reading speed-
ASD> entries on cards)
ASD> Video - 320x240 (and standard) - RGB, PAL and SVGA output.
ASD> Additional colors.
"Navigator, did you take the map?" (c) ;)
What cards are you planning to use?
Hello MegaMyth
Cards... SD, MMC, maybe MS
Maybe AT45D081 first as a drive...
But these are plans for the future. year :)
Hello ASDT
ASD> Cards... SD, MMC, maybe MS
ASD> Maybe AT45D081 first, like a disk...
ASD> But these are plans for the future. year :)
ASD>
A week until next year. :)
Are there any real OpenSource projects for reading/writing SD on eight-bits? At least
RAW blocks?
Hello ASDT
ASD> Cards... SD, MMC, maybe MS
ASD> Maybe AT45D081 first, like a disk...
Let's connect the AT45DB081 first... there shouldn't be any problems with it... everything is there
It’s just... and if I’m not mistaken, then the cards also work via SPI (IMHO).
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> Let's connect the AT45DB081 first... there shouldn't be any problems with it...
Meg> everything is simple there... and if I'm not mistaken, then the cards are also SPI
Meg> work (IMHO).
1 (one) megabyte disk? :v2_conf3;
by the way; 400 rub. per piece.
Hello, Error404
Err> One (1) megabyte disk?
Err> by the way, 400 rubles. per piece.
I don’t know where these prices come from... look at
http://www.terraelectronica.ru/catalog.php?ID=317&Search=1&Text=at45db&Gde=2&Pa
geS=1
there they start from 70 rubles per piece...
but you also don’t need to forget about the AT45DB642D, which costs 300 rubles and has
board 8 MB...
Undoubtedly, their cost RUB/MB is higher than that of Flash memory cards, but also not
You should also forget that in the process of debugging the device it will be a pity to burn
a card for 600 rubles, not a microcircuit for 70 rubles.
Hello MegaMyth
"No, why invent a bike? Why not make it for the same money (<200 rubles)
sd/mmc card reader and just throw the ready-made information into the spec?
So it’s easier to start making “OpenTR-DOS”, and it’s simple - they’re already there :) And the interface
the same...
Hello MegaMyth
"One (1) megabyte disk?"
So it’s the best for tr-dos, and it already exists...
Hello, Error404
Err> Are there any real OpenSource projects for reading/writing SD to
Err> eight-bit? At least RAW blocks?
What are equal blocks? better than Avroka with spi and that's it! By the way, 8 bit %) sources are full in
networks, search :)
> Undoubtedly, their cost RUB/MB is higher than that of Flash memory cards, but
> also do not forget that in the process of debugging the device
> it would be a pity to burn a card for 600 rubles, and not a microcircuit for 70 rubles.
No, why invent a bike? why not make sd/mmc for the same money (<200 rubles)
card reader and just throw the finished information into the spec?
And there is no need to use cards - everything is ready (even software) on the network, I took it, soldered it, flashed it and
forward - to the spec! The cards are intact, and so are the cards. Why aren't aurkas popular in Zelenograd?
=)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> 360 and 400/800 modes are closest to Spec
I don’t understand why they are the closest? I always liked one thing on spec - that
maybe on the trail. skip line with simple inc h, code on other platforms
I would have to use add. So in your opinion, 400 is the most spec size?
I don't see the logic. Okay, another 512...
Hello MegaMyth
aci> I always liked one thing at the spec - what you can do next. line
aci> jump with a simple inc h, code on other platforms would have to be added
aci> use. So in your opinion, 400 is the most spec size? I don’t see
aci> logic. Okay, another 512...
We are talking about the height being 256 pixels.
Consecutive bytes of video memory correspond to a column.
Then INC L / DEC L is used for up/down movements
And to move right/left use INC H / DEC H
And this is not within the familiar line, but at any point on the screen.
This is the z80 size. ;)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> I don’t know where these prices come from... look at
Meg> http://www.terraelectronica.ru/catalog.php?ID=317&Search=1&Text=at45d
Meg> b&Gde=2&PageS=1
Meg> there they are from 70 rubles per piece...
Meg> but you also don’t need to forget about the AT45DB642D, which costs 300 rubles, and
Meg> has 8 MB on board...
Meg> Undoubtedly, their cost RUB/MB is higher than that of Flash memory cards, but
Meg> also do not forget that in the process of debugging the device
Meg> it would be a pity to burn a card for 600 rubles, and not a microcircuit for 70 rubles.
Price from ChipaDip. There are three hundred something, almost four hundred. But you can come to
shop and buy. Something doesn't work out for me with virtual stores.
And SD also attracts me because it is easy to organize file exchange with a PC;
total; business - push the card from your eight-bit card into a PC card reader
or vice versa. I often use emulators on PC and it’s convenient to be able to
It won’t hurt to transfer the data to an eight-bit card (which is not so easy with microchips)
Hello, Error404
Err> But you can come to the store and buy it. With virtual stores
Err> something is wrong with me.
This company sells retail. She has her own store. Via the Internet
Only reservation of goods is made. I bought myself an alter there. approximately
300 rubles cheaper than in chipdeep.
Hello, acidrain
aci> No, why invent a bike? why not for the same money (<200rub)
aci> make an sd/mmc card reader and just throw the finished information into the spec?
aci> And there is no need to use cards - everything is ready (even software) on the network, I took it, soldered it,
aci> I stitched it and henceforth - to the spec! The cards are intact, and so are the cards. Cho in Zelenograd
aci> are avri not popular?
aci> =)
Very popular in Zelenograd. I work for a company that deals
surface mounting. We put aurka on almost every board... I know that
this is it :-)
Hello, acidrain
aci> So, in your opinion, 400 is the most spec size? I don't see the logic.
aci> Okay, another 512...
400x300 is closest in terms of (pixel size)/(screen size) ratio. Think about it
what does 512 horizontal lead to? In bitplanes this is 64 bytes, in linear mode
"byte per point" although you can navigate through INC/DEC, you already need banks
switch (plus checks).
cap> We are talking about the height being 256 px.
cap> ...
cap> This is the z80 size. ;)
Moreover, 384x296 (352x288), of which the addressable raster of 256 lines is
the maximum size close to 4:3 at which you can still fit a 16K screen
page (at address). Take more - you’ll need it in bitplanes too
bank (which will significantly reduce the speed of graph procedures). Still low-res mode
Designed primarily for fast dynamic graphics.
Hello MegaMyth
Since we are talking about developing a new ZX clone, I propose to implement the following
video modes:
256x192; 0)16/64,; 1)16/16, 2)16/4, 3)4/1 colors per pixel.
320x256; 4)16/16; 5)4/4, 6) 2/1 colors per pixel.
All Screen Modes must be able to be displayed in TV
and VGA modes as PAL (~15 kHz) and Double-PAL (~30kHz) respectively (Screen
Types).
For modes 0-3 it should be possible to display memory from any address
multiples of 2kB in any memory page.
For modes 4-6 it should be possible to display memory from addresses #0000,
#4000, #8000 and #C000 in any memory page.
Thus, video data can be generated in memory and included on
display through control ports, rather than sending them to one single screen.
Control of ZX-128 screens via port #7FFD must be hardware-matched with
new ports.
Suggested layout of control ports:
ScrModAdr port
Bits 7-3 - the most significant 5 bits of the screen address
Bits 2-0 - screen mode
For modes 0-3, all 5 bits are used, for modes 4-6, only the most significant 2.
Up to 8 modes can be used. By RESET it should be set to %01000000
(#40), which means a standard Spectrum screen from address #4000
ScrTypPage port
Bit 7 - screen type (PAL/DblPAL)
Bits 6-0 page number
Screen type: 0 Dbl PAL, 1 Dbl PAL. Addresses up to 128 pages with 2MB RAM, which is morethan enough. Can be reduced to 64-32 pages, freeing up an additional 1-2
bit for any needs. By RESET it should be set to %00000101 (#05),
which corresponds to page 5, PAL, standard Spectrum screen.
All ports must be accessible for both writing and reading.
I leave the structure of the raster in video modes, the organization of the palette and sprites to
developer's discretion.
Sergey Moskalev aka
Gris/RT.
12/22/2006
File: Ekran.zip http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=4351
Hello hero
I vote for dual-port in the memory area where the standard spec screen is
on the other side of the dual-port z80z80arm generating a video signal
Hello, Sergey
You also need to enter a port that will control options
for example
bit7 0=pixel shaders 1.1 1=pixel. Shaler 2.0
bit6 0=progressive scan 1=reverse monitor beam (most suitable for effects)
x=scan rotation at a random angle
bit5 0=Spekavskaya addressing 1=the card itself determines where based on the data sent
the program wanted to record (in debug mode, the user’s video card can
ask where the program wanted to output the pixel)
bit4 0=mpeg2 decoder disabled 1=mpeg2 decoder enabled
bit3 0=play video from the CD-ROM 1=play from the hard drive
bit2 0=connected IDE screw 1=connected SKAZI screw x=autodetect
bit1 0=use vector BGA font 1=use vector TrueType
bit0 0=Compatible with ZX 1=Compatible with IBM x=Compatible with proprietary 48
speck (hard drives for video are emulated via a tape recorder)
Does anyone else have constructive suggestions on the topic ;) ???
PS. x = it is necessary to quickly write 0.1 into the bits and due to parasitic capacitance
data bus there an average value is formed the board will be at this moment
catch (for example, using a high-speed 16-bit DAC with the ability
calibration) state and react as required
Hello hero
her> You also need to enter a port that will manage options
her> for example
her> bit7 0=pixel shaders 1.1 1=pixel. Shaler 2.0
her> bit6 0=progressive scan 1=reverse monitor beam (for effects
her> that's it) x=sweep rotation at a random angle
her> bit5 0=Spekavskaya addressing 1=card itself according to the sent data
her> defines where the program wanted to write (in debug mode
her> the video card can ask the user where the program wanted
her> display pixel)
her> bit4 0=mpeg2 decoder disabled 1=mpeg2 decoder enabled
her> bit3 0=play video from seedrom 1=play from
her> hard drive
her> bit2 0=connected IDE screw 1=connected SKAZI screw x=autodetek
her> bit1 0=use vector BGA font 1=use vector
her> TrueType
her> bit0 0=ZX compatible 1=IBM compatible x=IBM compatible
her> with proprietary 48 spec (hard drives for video are emulated via
her> tape recorder)her>
her> Who else has constructive suggestions on the topic ;) ???
her>
her> PS. x = this is a quick way to write 0.1 and 0.1 into bits one by one
her> of the parasitic capacitance of the data bus, the average value of the board is formed there
her> will catch this moment (for example, using
her> high-speed DAC 16 bits with calibration capability) state
her> and react as needed
:v2_thumb;
More; you need to reserve a couple of bits: one for communication with aliens (they see
in a different spectrum than we do, and switching modes will be required) and one for
turning on/off the video processor heating control - a global change is coming
cooling (due to warming, melting glaciers and the turn of the Gulf Stream) ;)
-+-
All jokes aside - why did I quit Spec almost immediately?
After familiarization, no games helped (although I managed to solder a couple
Pentagon), so this is a poor screen (only in terms of resolution, up to color for me
don't care) and a stupid ROM with completely wretched software in the address space: a quarter
(!) RAM is down the drain. As a programmer, Speck at that time was completely incomprehensible to me.
interesting.
Hello, Error404
Err> stupid ROM with completely poor software in the address space
never programmed in basice?
Hello Orionsoft
Ori> never programmed in basice?
Programmed at school - on BK0010. :) I made toys like pythons and “smash”
wall." Gygy. :v2_finge;
Ha; I haven’t programmed it on the Spectrum - you’ll break your fingers on 40 buttons, and
Finding commands on the keys is difficult. By the time I got 128s
Pentagonov (I played with it and put it on the shelf, one still seems to be alive), I already have
there was Orion with CP/M and a bunch of normal BASICS (and compilers and interpreters,
although they didn’t know how to do graphics, which didn’t stop them from using ASM for graphics
from basics). I even tried to port PRESIDENT from ZX to CP/M - and even partially
It worked, unfortunately it is now lost. :frown;
Main,; that in Orion in this sense there was no violence against the individual - in
ROM (2k) only Monitor + bootloader with HDD. Load everything else
at your own discretion, all 500kb of memory is yours.
And so, basically at that time I was programming in ASM and TurboPascal under CP/M (and even
has its own clone of CP/M), a little C in the same place (this concerns home
hobbies, at the institute there were other tasks - right up to the prologue [bueeee]).
Hello, Error404
It’s stupid to discuss the purpose of port bits until there are no ports themselves (physically).
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> it’s stupid to discuss the purpose of port bits until there are no ports themselves
Meg> (physically).
To get a certain result, you need to imagine it as if it were already
exists. Isn't that right?
If you want, you can call it "Technical Assignment". ;-)
Hello Sonic
Son> ...this is already approximately the middle of the development process. When writing technical specifications
Son> this shouldn’t worry you in any way.
This is the technical specification for the interface :) - This is exactly how I want to manage graphics. It is necessary that
It was convenient for the programmer to write, and not for the hardware guy to design the circuit.
Hello, Sergey
For example, I like captain cobalt’s proposal. Very convenient in general, and
for sprites stored vertically in particular. With 256 lines and 4x3 it turns out
horizontal 340.
Hello, Sergey
A horizontal line of 340 points is only 42.5 :) bytes in bitplane mode.
384 points are only 48 bytes. 352 - 44 bytes.
And in linear modes you will have to click the banks in every possible way (the bank number is stored
separately).
Hello Lethargeek
And I don’t care that 340 doesn’t fit into a byte. In this situation, it’s not particularly
necessary. When the data is arranged vertically in memory, it turns out quite well
linear addressing. Moreover, a byte from a column can be either in a familiar place or
by other values, by 1,2,4 pixels for example. But here you need a lot of memory. And
to transfer 340x256@256 screen colors per interruption you will need to offhand
megahertz something like 50.
I wouldn't want to work with bitplanes, but if you look closely the advantages can be
be here too. For example, a changing number of these same plans. TE want BW - 1, 4
colors 2 and so on up to 32bit =)
Hello MegaMyth
LD (rr),A - 7T
LD (HL),r - 7T
+INC rr - 6T
This is a total of 13T
OUT (C),r - 12T + auto-increment - the difference is small, and the convenience is questionable. By
Regarding "PUSH/POP" - this is DMA! For other reasons, the result is a blitter with
Colorkey. But many people like to do everything in software.
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Regarding "PUSH/POP" - this is DMA!
the stack will be organized in VK itself :-)
Hello NovaStorm
I have some thoughts about the video adapter.
Many said that on the Spectrum it is more convenient to move from line to line and
from column to column in simple INC/DEC H/L. What if you enter into the video adapter
starting point pointer ports. then send commands to the video adapter
similar to INC/DEC H/L, recording data is also out, and VK will know
in which direction should he move after recording the data. I also suggest entering
another command similar to PUSH POP for coordinates and size registers
loading area. This way we get monstrous performance...
by writing down in VK the size of the area being sent and its coordinates on the screen (and indicating
video screen number) we do simple LDIR and the data is drawn quickly and
nice :-) you can also enter a transparent color register. and when copying
transparent points will be ignored. You can also screw more instead of LDIR
fast vesch and send data even faster...
How PUSH POP will work; We; indicate the starting coordinate and throw it at
stack then we start drawing something. get the coordinates from the stack
we move them to the right place, put them on the stack again, draw further, and so on.
I’m also thinking about introducing an algorithm for drawing lines into VK,
polygons and circles, you can also think about filling them.
I would like to know your suggestions and wishes.P.S. work on the clone and VK is in full swing... the breadboard is soldered,
the byteblaster is working. The day before yesterday I received 640*480*60Hz on the monitor (another quartz
I couldn’t find it) and the colored stripes :-) it was nice. I'll post it soon if possible
photos of the device and the screen I received :-) Most likely it will be after NG
How can I sleep?
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> And it doesn’t matter that 340 doesn’t fit into a byte. In this situation it is not
Nov> is especially necessary.
I drove it away :(
Nov> And to transfer 340x256@256 screen colors per interrupt you will need
Nov> offhand megahertz is about 50.
Yes, working with 85k video data in a 64k address space is a bit difficult :)
Nov> I would not like to work with bitplanes, but if you look closely
Nov> there may be advantages here too. For example, a changing number of these same
Nov> plans. WE want B&W - 1, 4 colors 2, etc. up to 32bit =)
If the screen bitmaps are placed on different pages, then you can work with them,
It just won't work quickly.
I, here, suggested screens that are closest to standard, with which you can
work quite quickly, and open almost from any place. The last one,
Considering the desire to have a multitasking OS on the Spectrum, it is simply not replaceable. Yes
each task can open its own screen, rather than transferring data
round trip at #4000 or #C000.
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> For example, I like captain cobalt's proposal. Very convenient
Nov> in general, and for sprites stored vertically in particular. At 256
Nov> lines and 4x3 the horizontal is 340.
I also like this proposal, but what about 340?
256x256 because 340 does not fit into an 8-bit register :).
Hello Valen
Val> ...Only for your own resolution 640*480*256@60.75-85Hz...
Guys,
There’s something I just can’t understand what you’re talking about here. What attitude
does 640x480x256 resolution apply to the Spectrum?!
Hello MegaMyth
Here's another New Year's question... :)
What to do with Basic? Is it necessary?
Hello ASDT
ASD> What to do with Basic? Is it necessary?
Only as a cartridge for compatibility
Hello, Sergey
Ser> Guys,
Ser> there’s something I just can’t understand what you’re talking about here. What attitude
Ser> does 640x480x256 resolution apply to the Spectrum?!
It looks like the guys are playing too hard, and the pussy doesn’t give them rest (alternatively they’re trying
lure someone from there...) .. if you need sophisticated video modes, then
They can’t do anything cooler than the Sprinter.. and what they offer is conceptual
The error doesn’t apply to the Spectrum either.. it’s more likely “we stuck it in instead of a stump”
Z80 and braked..."
Hello ASDT
ASD> Here's another New Year's question...
ASD> What to do with Basic? Is it necessary?
New Year's humor:
Initially, the bass was not intended to be a current one. There should be a tape loader and that’s it. A
then they thought and decided that if a person does not have a single cassette, what should he
do with these Spectrum. And they came up with Basik. because there were unused
buttons on the keyboard (out of order) they also came up with the commands CAT MOVE ERASE, etc. For
No one yet knew what they were needed for, but they decided to keep them anyway.
Years passed, users began to ask the question. what are all these commands for? and
Then they came up with Interface 1 and TR-DOS. Years pass again, 128 KB are added
memory and Basik 128 with tape loader. People are confused. If you already have TR-DOS
and Interface 1, why do you need a Basik and Tape loader?
Our days have come. They are already screwing anything they want to the poor Spectrum... and 4 MB
Frames and HDDs and video cards with 512k or more... is there still a tape loader and bass?
question:
Who else loads 600K toys from cassette to LOW?
Can someone load CP/M from a cassette?
Or someone got a 120-hour audio cassette and recorded a Demo video from NedoPC there
Group and watching?
Someone else needs super slow Basik to write the same reactive ones
demo?
Hello, Sergey
Ser> Guys,
Ser> there’s something I just can’t understand what you’re talking about here. What attitude
Ser> does 640x480x256 resolution apply to the Spectrum?!
None. Just like Spec for anything other than games (with such and such a screen).
Hello Valen
I would just like to explain my vision of such a platform as the ZX-Spectrum, which
I would like to explain why I see no point in video controllers and megavideo modes
which will undoubtedly bring the quality of graphics with hardware closer to pisish
accelerators.. At this stage, Spectrum is not widely used and
household in the "folk" sense of the word, it is more of a computer for amateurs
program at a low level, which could be compared to kayakers (this
such boats for going down mountain rivers) and in general the whole thrill of programming under
Spectrum lies precisely in the fact that you go around these stones and squeeze them out of the platform
not only what she can do, but also what she cannot.. everyone who loves comfort and
peace has been on the pussy for a long time and this suits everyone quite well, after all, they are amateurs
attach powerful processors incompatible with Z80 or video processor to the spec
which will draw a bunch of lines in hardware and do the filling, but they won’t do it themselves
consciously, they do something that does not provide advantages as such in a broader
range rather than momentary, to compete in the sector of household computers with PC
unrealistic, and such developments are designed to speed up the development of specifically “household”
software and reducing the costs of its production, which in our case
pointless.. so before you put a motor and sail on the kayak and try
bring it to the stream without obstacles :) it’s better to think a thousand times, because"some things are broken because that's how they are supposed to be" :)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> In short, everything was calculated on the calculator... access time to the card
Meg> will be approximately 30-50 ns... which is enough for a pair of z80
Meg> operating at a frequency of 28 MHz
How many bytes does the scanner extract in a frame?
Hello Valen
Val> That's the joke, that if you make a separate card (with its own fast
Val> memory) then in 640*480 mode it is quite possible to display 2 tile layers
Val> +sprites.
Val> Moreover, such a card can work in parallel with a spec.
Val>
Val> You can reduce it to 512*384. And then for reasons of saving memory.
Right, two layers 640x480 (also “+ sprites”)!! For an independent device
it will be a bit much, even with an extended SD and SRAM at 15ns (as I already told you
hinted)... Of course it will “display”, but that’s all the dynamics
All that remains is to move exclusively wretched flat tiles... Why the hell
Speck to make a stupid console? Better (and simpler) if possible.
And then finally the person plans the classic APA-mode, shared memory for everything (percent
should also work someday), and yes, the SD is 8 bits, with all that it implies.
:sleep:
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Right, two layers 640x480 (also “+ sprites”)!! For the independent
Let> the device will be too much, even with an extended SD and SRAM at 15ns (about
Let> I already hinted to you)... Of course it will “display”, but here are the dynamics
Let> - all that remains is that it’s exclusively wretched flat tiles
Let> move...
In short, everything was calculated on the calculator... the access time to the card will be
be approximately 30-50 ns... which is enough for a pair of z80 operating at the frequency
28MHz
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> 614400 (on two layers) at 640*480 without sprites.
:v2_scare; So; at 28 MHz there are only 560,000 SRAM cycles per frame!! :v2_conf2:
Hello Lethargeek
Let> How many bytes does the scanner pull out in a frame?
614400 (on two layers) at 640*480 without sprites.
But the scanner hasn’t pulled out anything useful yet, because... Under construction :-).
Hello hero
her> The main thing is not the resolution and megabytes, but the dynamics.
The author wanted to share memory between VK and the PCs.
And here the VK itself eats up 80MB/sec.
Hello hero
Here's how much the scanner needs to subtract per frame:
2 tile layers + 1 sprite layer
640*480*3layers = ~922KB
For comfortable mode 85Hz (scanner is maximally loaded)
922 * 85 = 79MB/sec
In reality, the figure will be a little higher by 5-7%.
Such a video card with 2 - 4 meters of memory
works on many game consoles, including Sega.
Hello hero
Tell me, current memory, how long does it take to read - from giving the address to
getting the output value? Otherwise I’m confused about something, either ISS or not...
Hello MegaMyth
28MHz / 50Hz = 560000 clocks per frame
at 60Hz even less, change the batteries in the calculator :)
Hello MegaMyth
Still, you won’t get 2 Z80s at 28 MHz, you need 37 MHz without stopping.
memory (I mean + video at least 60Hz).
Hello Valen
The main thing is not the resolution and megabytes, but the dynamics.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> So at 28 MHz there are only 560,000 SRAM cycles in a frame!!
What did you ask just now???
640*480=307200 bytes per layer. multiply by 2 since there are 2 layers, here you have 614400.
Hello hero
Guys... the memory is 16-bit... 2 layers will be read at the same time.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> Why are you stuck with 640 by 480. There are other funny modes.
Meg> for example: 320x240, 320x200, 256x192 as 1,2,4,8 bits per pixel, s
Meg> with/without palette, with and without attributes... I'm making a flexible system...
Well okay... Just to make it convenient! OK.? :smile;
A,; in general, in my opinion, it would not be worthwhile to have such a bunch of video modes (in this
you can drown), - it’s better to spend the extra FPGA elements on other useful things:
full-fledged interrupt controller, DMA controller, timers, high-quality sound and
etc.
I wish you success!
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
It’s much more interesting to stick the ARM7TDMI percent emulsion into EmulZ, in theory it’s very simple
emulate (although there are also some areas like conveyor belts, etc.) and let’s say this
It's a good idea to write Beavis with Z80 emulation :) Sort of like an emulator
emulator. %)
Hello, Sergey
Ser> full-fledged interrupt controller, DMA controller, timers,
Ser> high-quality sound, etc.
Everything will be... but not right away :-) I now need at least some kind of board with a percentage and
video... not even keyboard yet... and you're talking about DMA IRQ SB, etc.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> I have 133MB/Sec, I think that's enough :-)
So this is a band for VK and other people
or only for VK?
Those. will the VC have its own memory and its own bus?
Hello Valen
Val> Here we calculate how much the scanner needs to subtract per frame:
Val> 2 tile layers + 1 sprite
Val> 640*480*3layers = ~922KB
Val>
Val> For comfortable mode 85Hz (the scanner is maximally loaded)
Val> 922 * 85 = 79MB/sec
Val>
Val> In reality, the figure will be a little higher by 5-7%.
Val>
Val> Such a video card with 2 - 4 meters of memory
Val> is used by many game consoles, including Sega.
I have 133MB/sec, I think that's enough :-)
Hello MegaMyth
DDR also has a feature that if you read data in a row, incrementally
addresses, then the speed will increase, but by half an order. From 70ns to 10ns. Read
line into the buffer and slowly DAC it into the video output, and the percentage can easily
keep joking.
Hello MegaMyth
By the way. For myself, I’m developing the idea of protecting memory with an accuracy of up to 4 bytes. Time
It so happened for Speck that there simply cannot be any real protection in him
pages of some programs from others, maybe someone cloning new models
borrow an idea? You need 2 times more memory, but it’s still realistic
barely half is used. A little more clock cycles for calls to the shadow
memory with descriptors, but modern chip and memory speeds are no problem
eliminated. But there is a real opportunity to have multitasking and
at the same time - complete security and isolation of some programs from others.
Hello hero
what are you betting on? I actually thought that dimms were bought ready-made,
are pushed through a standard connector, and what other precision is needed. Or how
Is RAM soldered onto the board with a soldering iron before? o:
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> By the way. I'm developing the idea of protecting memory with an accuracy of up to 4x
Vla> byte
IMHO if you think in the context of a spec to a sufficient paging module
addresses with pages in 16K And let's say for the same 4MB 256x16 will be enough
small circuits
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> I read the line into the buffer and slowly DAC it into the video output, and the rest
Vla> can calmly continue joking.
Yes, this is not only in DDR2, they are called packet transfers, but all this is for blacks
to install DDR2 you need to have a factory for the production of class 5 boards
precision and engineers with appropriate qualifications.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> and what do you put? I actually thought that dimm's were already being bought
Vla> ready
Yes, the board where these dims are inserted should also be quite complicated, and this
technology is not for little ones
Hello hero
I made fun of the platform a little during these holidays, so what did I get up to in due time?
sent Zonov (“Spectrum is already dead!”), Peters (“we have our own development!”), Nemo
(“how can you, this is not a Spectrum!”), one American company (“we
We are professionals and we don’t deal with Spectrums”).. so without becoming a millionaire I had to
apply for a building manager
http://zx.pk.ru/showpost.php?p=73131&postcount=94
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> Guys... the memory is 16-bit... 2 layers will be read at the same time.
I somehow didn’t get into the monster: VK SD has 16 bits, and two processors are sitting on one
8-bit? There, even at 37 MHz for one, a maximum of 21 MHz comes out (and then from 50 Hz
personnel), where are there two at 28 MHz... Or each on its own separate 8-bit
half (interaction?) - that is, he can only draw in his own layer?? :D
But other types of sprites are planned...
P.S. Where does the figure 133Mb/sec come from?
Hello Lethargeek
The Z80 processor does not execute commands in 1 clock cycle. minimal memory cycle
is 3 clock cycles (reading additional command bytes) It follows that
the maximum flow is 21 MHz/3=7Mb/sec.
Process access divisions:
1. Each processor has its own memory addressing ports.
2. The processors are supplied with a clock frequency with a phase shift.
3. Switching of address buses and processor data buses is carried out by external logic,
which is controlled by the FPGA.
4. The control buses of the processors go to the plis directly.
5. Plis herself figures out how many percents, who is the master, what percent to send to
interrupt, which one to switch to standby mode (if more than 1 percent is accessing
bus).
on P.S. 133 MB/sec is the peak. The real one will be different. access time
memory 15 ns. This is 66 MHz or 66MB/Sec @ 8bit. therefore at 16 bits 2 times
more, and this is 133 MB/sec.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> 3. Switching of address buses and processor data buses is carried out externally
Meg> logic that is controlled by the FPGA.
Meg> 4. Process control buses go to the plis directly.
Meg> 5. Plis herself figures out how many percentages, who is the master, at what percentage
Meg> send an interrupt, which switch to standby mode (if more than 1
Meg> processes access the bus).
As I understand it, all access to memory and ports go through the FPGA. How much is this
will you need two processors + 16-bit memory itself?! :v2_scare;
And/or; "external logic" in the form of a big bunch of gates, which are aphasic for such
frequencies are missing...:v2_conf3;
Meg>; Memory access time 15 ns. This is 66 MHz or 66MB/Sec @ 8bit
Pomnitsa heroy claimed that there would be problems already at 37 MHz... :v2_unsur:
Hello Lethargeek
Well, FPGAs have a lot of legs. I'm not sure it's true that all the legs
You can use it at random, but that’s a lot - that’s for sure. >100
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Pomnitsa hero claimed that there would be problems already at 37 MHz...
I haven’t noticed such problems yet... at least at 60 MHz there weren’t any :-)
Let> This is how many legs will be needed for two processors + the 16-bit one
Let> memory?! And/or “external logic” in the form of a big bunch of gates
Let> which afaik are missing for such frequencies...
FPGA legs:
Prots: ShA-16, ShD-8, ShU~9*2 = 42 (for 2 prots)
Memory: ША-19, ШД-16, ШУ-4 = 39
Video; RGB-15 (decided; no longer needed) HSYNC VSYNC 17
ROM; OE; WR, ADR[6] = 8
Total legs - 106.
There seem to be about 40 free ones left (which will be used to form the NEMO bus
Processor switching through fast 74AC logic (time about 5ns or so). On
commutation of 1 processor - 4msh housing SO/DIP20.
We should also not forget that the board is experimental. Subsequently there will be
Naturally, not just one FPGA. 1 - "Chipset", 2 - "Video". Or a stripped down version
boards 1 percent and video on 1 FPGA.
P.S. and also on the constructive side:
The 1st percent will be located on the motherboard. subsequent ones (up to 4) on separate
scarves that are inserted into the mother. on 1 such scarf - 4 20 legs and 1 percent.
The estimated cost of completing such a scarf will be less than 200 rubles. (and this
perhaps the only scarf that can be made “under the iron.”
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> Well, FPGAs have a lot of legs. I'm not really sure that
Vla> all legs can be used at random, but that’s a lot - that’s for sure.
Vla> >100
I wasn’t too lazy to look at the datasheet. My pleat has only 147 user legs.
Hello MegaMyth
So what, 147 is not enough to implement independent operation of 2 percent Z80? She has
It was like only 40?
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> So, 147 is not enough to implement independent work of 2 percent
Vla> Z80? She only had 40, like?
Legs are enough for 2 percent, but do not forget that you also need other functions in
please push in, such as IRQ DMA maybe serial ports a couple of pieces
all kinds of port decryptors and much, much more.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> 2 percent is enough, but don’t forget that you need others
Meg> push functions into the pls, such as IRQ DMA, possibly serial ports
Meg> a couple of pieces, all kinds of port decryptors and much, much more.
Hello. Will the process continue?
In general, by the way, people were right in advising us to take a closer look at more modern
FPGA... For example, I bought the first Cyclone for 600 rubles - but there are a couple of PLLs, and
almost 6000 LE, three Sinclairs will fit :).
Yes, and the 2nd Cyclone with 4600 LE and 13 hardware multipliers is at the Pivot Point
$17... Where is the world coming to...
And having also recently started mastering FPGAs, I listened to people and am learning Verilog. After
AHDL - heaven and earth. Synthesizable language - rulez!
Good luck!
Hello, Micro-80
Mic> Hello. Will the process continue?
The fact of the matter is that the process continues... Today I have:
Arbitrary synchronization, arbitrary work area size (resolution),
hardware scrolling by X and Y, 256 colors from a 32K palette (4 palettes in total).
By the way, the “jumping laugher” in the avatar is not accidental... it was the first animation
with which I pleased my roommates...
Oh yes... I almost forgot... there is still no processor, but an equivalent of its tire has been made,
for loading data into video memory and recording into VK ports via LPT port... assembled
it’s corny on another one :-) MAX7128 (there wasn’t another one, but this one got
free... good work).
The total number of microswitches in the device is currently 4... 1 PLS, 2 RAM and 1 logic (sync buffer
on VGA).
Mic> In general, by the way, people were right to advise taking a closer look at more
Mic> modern FPGA...
I’m also starting to think about something more modern. I CHRV
pointed his finger at ACEX and said how much it cost... I liked it... and it seems
the sprinter is assembled on it... I started using it - I liked it... I wrote the palette -
problems began related to delays inside the plis... at a clock speed of 24 MHz
(41ns) delays are 32ns... minimum memory access time -
15ns... it’s a miracle that mikruhi have time to do all their business in 9ns, but it’s a pity that they don’teverything is only 50%, so sometimes crap appears on the kakata screen, but then
They warm up and the situation improves, but again not by much. I'm thinking about
in order to reduce the frequency of clunks (in order not to stop work on
project), until I buy a new FPGA.
Future plans:
1. Implement a standard Spectrum screen.
2. Make EGA mode.
3. Make Text modes (I will not install ROMs with fonts, since there is no place to sew
:-)))
Hello MegaMyth
I managed to stop in iron developments...
I also recommend it to others. You need to work on software...
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> 2. Make EGA mode.
Just don't call EGA anything that has "16 colors per dot".
What we have on the ATM or SAM Coupe is not EGA in any way.
Hello ASDT
Meg> Plans for the future:
Meg> 1. Implement a standard Spectrum screen.
Meg> 2. Make EGA mode.
Meg> 3. Make Text modes
I forgot about the game (tile/sprite) mode.
By the way, why EGA?
Regular VGA 640*480*256 is suitable for gaming
and for GUI mode.
Hello ASDT
ASD> I managed to stay in iron developments...
ASD> And I advise others. You need to work on software...
Software is complicated, hardware has become simpler now :) if they were doing it, then
you look and everything wouldn’t be so bad.. but stop and fix the development
- this is an act akin to heroic... like stepping on your own throat :)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> CHRV pointed his finger at ACEX and told me how much it costs... me
Meg> liked it...
ACEX is no longer produced, costs the same as Cyclone, has less capacity,
There are fewer bells and whistles (like ClockBoost, etc.) - what for?
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> Plans for the future:
Meg> 1. Implement a standard Spectrum screen.
Meg> 2. Make EGA mode.
Meg> 3. Make Text modes (I won’t install ROMs with fonts, because
Meg> no place to sew :-)))
Val> I forgot about the game (tile/sprite) mode.
Val> By the way, why EGA?
Val> Regular VGA 640*480*256 is suitable for gaming
Val> and for GUI mode.
What are you doing?! There aren’t enough modes planned anyway. :v2_neutr;
Alone; You need several text ones with different character matrix sizes.
:v2_neutr;
Sprites; also preferably a couple - with “square” sprites and with
"vertical". :v2_neutr;
Layouts; There are also more different ones. In addition, it is desirable that different
video modes could only work on different monitors and overlapped less
(time-tested solutions!!). :v2_neutr;
AND; the main thing is to focus only on software interfaces and drivers!!
:v2_neutr; :v2_neutr:; :v2_neutr;
Then; all of the above definitely has a chance to become a standard. :v2_neutr;
A; then on this hellish Spectrum for 20+ years there has been one mode for all occasions...
What a disgrace... Pisishniks have long had the opportunity to shove into everysoftware a bunch of libraries and graphics sets for different modes, and spektrumists than
worse?
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> The fact of the matter is that the process continues... Today I have:
Meg> Arbitrary synchronization, arbitrary size of the work area
Meg> (resolution), hardware scrolling in X and Y, 256 colors from the 32K palette
Meg> (4 palettes in total). By the way, the “jumping laugher” in the avatar is not accidental... it
Meg> was the first animation that I pleased my roommates...
Meg> Oh yes... I almost forgot... I still don't have the proc, but an equivalent has been made
Meg> its buses, for loading data into video memory and recording to VK ports via
Meg> LPT port... it is simply assembled on another plc :-) MAX7128 (other
Meg> was not there, but this one was for free... good work).
Meg> The total number of microswitches in the device is currently 4... 1 PLS, 2 RAM and 1 logic
Meg> (sync buffer on VGA).:-)))
And you write, as I understand it, in quartus? What do you sew with? I still have to do this - for now
I'm debugging the models in the simulator :), although I've already purchased the gadgets.
> I’m also starting to think about something more modern. Me
> CHRV pointed his finger at ACEX and said how much it costs... me> I liked it... and it looks like the sprinter was built on it... I started using it -
> I liked it... I wrote the palette - problems related to it started
> delays inside the plis... with a 24 MHz (41 ns) delay clock
> are 32 ns... minimum memory access time is 15 ns... miracle
> that mikruhi have time to do all their work in 9ns, but it’s a pity that not everything
> but only 50%, so sometimes crap appears on the kakata screen, but
> then they warm up and the situation improves, but again not by much.
> I'm thinking about reducing the frequency of the clocks (in order not to
> stop working on the project) until I buy a new one
> FPGA.
I also first bought ASEX 1K10, it was lying around for a year, but when in December I finally
I got my hands on it and realized that it was too small. I bought Cyclone-1, it should be enough. By the way,
in terms of speed - what is your clock frequency? Why are there such long delays?
For me, 32-bit multiplication is performed in 24ns, and without optimization...
Hello Lethargeek
Let> It is also advisable to have a couple of sprites - with “square” sprites and s
Let> "vertical".
Let>
Do you need sprite mode??? :v2_scare;
You; changed your views? ;)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> What are you doing?! There aren’t enough modes planned anyway. :v2_neutr;
Let>; You need several text ones with different matrix sizes
Let> character. :v2_neutr; Sprites; also preferably a couple - s
Let> with "square" sprites and with "vertical" ones. :v2_neutr;
Let>; There are also more different layouts. In addition, it is desirable that different
Let> video modes could only work on different and smaller monitors
Let> intersected (time-tested solutions!!). :v2_neutr;
Let>; And most importantly - focus only on software interfaces and drivers!
Let> :v2_neutr; :v2_neutr:; :v2_neutr;
Let>;
Let> Then all of the above definitely has a chance to become a standard.
Let> :v2_neutr;
Let>; And then on this crazy Spectrum for 20+ years there is one mode for all occasions
Let> life... What a disgrace... Pisishniks have long had the opportunity
Let> cram into each software a bunch of libraries and graphics sets for
Let> different modes, and why are spektrumists worse?
Regarding the sprite mode:sprites will not be divided into vertical square round etc. according to the textbook
geometry... I will try to make sprites of arbitrary sizes that are multiples of 8
pixels.
There will also be one text mode, but with an arbitrary character size, with
loadable fonts, possibly organized on the basis of a sprite... Possibly
there will be an option to insert on top of the text mode of the graphics areas... and
Naturally there will be hardware support for the mouse cursor.
There are also a few unexpected surprises up my sleeve, which I hope will be pleasant.
They will please you too.
Hello MegaMyth
The work is in full swing and continues. Yesterday my Windows was destroyed by some wise virus...
Moreover, I still managed to lose about 15-20GB of music somewhere, but I didn’t touch the project.
Yesterday I experimented with the 320*480*15Bit video mode. Pictures are nothing
are different from pisyukovy ones... the palette is still acting up, you need to debug the code, which is what
I'll get started this evening and start working on the spec video mode.
Hello, Micro-80
Mic> And you write, as I understand it, in quartus? What do you sew with? I still have to do this -
Mic> I’m currently debugging the models in the simulator, although I’ve already purchased the hardware.
Exactly there. I sew via JTAG ala ByteBlaster
Mic> By the way, in terms of speed - what is your clock frequency? Where are the delays coming from
Mic> are so big - I have 32-bit multiplication in 24ns,
Mic> and without optimization...
Clock 27 MHz, got rid of delays - there were errors in AHDL.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> ...
Let> And let all the bourgeois developers of sprite engines hang themselves from
Let> envy!! :v2_neutr;
Let>; ...
Let>
Can I have a couple of links to such developments, preferably open ones?
And more questions:
- is it worth making several types of sprites - 4x8, 8x4, 8x8...?
- how many palettes (256 colors)?
- how many layers?
and a stupid question - what is TILE? :)
Hello, Micro-80
Mic> Can I have a couple of links to such developments, preferably open ones?
I gradually pumped myself up a bunch of docks on consoles (Sega, NES, GBA...)
and other computers (chest of drawers, Atari800, Amiga...), but I can’t find the links right now. :(
Sprites of arbitrary sizes are not implemented anywhere - it’s too complicated.
The Sega Genesis actually has two fixed sprite sizes - 32x32 and 16x16.
Mic> - is it worth making several types of sprites - 4x8, 8x4, 8x8... ?
It’s really not worth making sprites at all; in the 80s they were used out of poverty, but now
it's just a useless anachronism.
Mic> - how many palettes (256 colors)?
Mic> - how many layers?
Layers - more than two are unprofitable, palettes - preferably according to the number of layers.
Mic> and a stupid question - what is a TILE?
In a broad sense (software tiles) - bitmaps of a fixed (any) size
and a fixed (any) shape, from which a common single image is built
by joining them along the edges (overlapping program tiles inside this
images cannot, although different images can already be superimposed on each other
friend).
Afaik hardware tiles are always square, usually 8x8 pixels in size (but there are
and more), from which an image of the entire screen (or layer) is built usingthe so-called “tile map”, that is, an array of links to starting addresses
bitmaps in video memory. Are even more harmful than sprites,
a relic of the past. :mad:
Hello NovaStorm
Who will then draw pixel-accurate sprites?
Hello Lethargeek
I would have enough blitter for the most part, but if you want something special
- you can make a Z-buffer =)
Hello MegaMyth
2Lethargeek
"I gradually pumped myself up a bunch of docs on consoles"
Can you list what you have?
Yes, and according to your “VK” doc...
Hello Romanich
(right now...)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> I gradually pumped up a bunch of docks for consoles (Sega, NES, GBA...)
Let>
Damn, I told you - consoles rule! :v2_rolley
Let> In Sega Genesis there are actually two fixed sprite sizes - 32x32
Let> and 16x16.
Let>
Nevermind! 1x1.1x2.1x3.1x4.2x2.2x3.2x4.3x3.3x4.4x4 tiles^2.
1tile=8x8px^2
Let> Sprites are finally not worth making, in the 80s they were used from
Let> poverty, but right now it’s just a useless anachronism.
Let>
For types of processors operating at tens of megahertz, this is the only way
make quick graphics. Because the blitter is incredibly slow at such frequencies!
Let> Afaik hardware tiles are always square, usually 8x8 pixels in size
Let> (but there are more), from which the image of the entire screen is built
Let> (or layer) using the so-called "tile map", that is, an array
Let> links to the starting addresses of bitmaps in video memory. Represent
Let> is an even more harmful relic of the past than sprites. :mad;
Let>;
And then how to calculate collisions on an 8-bit CPU?
The braking will also be ungodly!
Hello, Sergey
Rom> Damn, I told you - consoles rule!
Prefixes suks, after reading the documents, I was only more convinced of this.
Rom> Wow! 1x1.1x2.1x3.1x4.2x2.2x3.2x4.3x3.3x4.4x4 tiles^2.
Rom> 1tile=8x8px^2
Yes, I got it wrong. But even these (8/16/24/32)x(8/16/24/32) cannot be called arbitrary.
Rom> For types of processors operating at tens of megahertz, this is the only one
Rom> is a way to make quick graphics.
Yeahhhh? What, do the engines have spritetile engines?
Rom> Because the blitter at such frequencies is ungodly slow!
It's not the blitter that slows down, it's the video memory. In the old days, frequencies were funny,
now - sufficient. If you expand the data bus, then everything just flies, I
cited numbers.
Rom> And then how to calculate collisions on an 8-bit CPU?
Rom> It will also be ungodly to slow down!
Collisions with pixel accuracy when rendering with a blitter are also perfectly possible
remember (though I don’t know if anyone has done this in practice, but
there are no fundamental obstacles). Besides, collisions are not critical, but on Spec
How did you manage without them? And for some reason they are not on Far Far Away... :p
Hello, Sergey
Ser> Regarding graphics - blitters, coppers, bitmaps, sprites and sound
Ser> I can download the Amiga ECS programmer's manual for information.
Ser> By the way,
Ser> OCS has currently already been implemented in an FPGA by one enthusiast.
Ser> Introduce: Amiga, for which you can write on your native Z80
Ser> assembler!
I have it, I read it. Amiga ECS is no longer relevant, now much more can be done
better, and under the Z80 (yes, so that you can attach it to any Spec).
Hello Romanich
Rom> And then how to calculate collisions on an 8-bit CPU?
Rom> It will also be ungodly to slow down!
Everyone:
I periodically monitor the topic here, and this is what I noticed:
The limitations of the Z80 are constantly mentioned (by me as well).
I think it’s high time to forget about the Z80.
In the 21st century, sitting on an 8-bit CPE while piling up nasty videos on it
modes whose data size is several times larger than its address one
space - it’s not that it’s funny, it’s simply ridiculous!
Another absurdity is that they suggest (in other threads) to make Spectrum on ARM.
In my opinion, the best option for the NEW CLONE is the Z380. 32 bits is fine
modern. We immediately get high productivity, the ability to work with
high-resolution graphics, and compatibility with all software written for
Spectrum.
Yes, you won’t find the Z380 now, but you can implement it in an FPGA, achieving
frequencies are about 50-60 MHz.
Cons: you have to write the firmware yourself.
Pros: you can optimize the set of commands.
(for example, add commands like CALL (HLz+d16).
Let it not be quite a Z380, but what?
Z380 can work in Z80 mode, or you can use a real Z80 for
compatibility with old software. You can also write an emulator, for those who don’t want to
Press RESET to play old games.
Regarding graphics - blitters, coppers, bitmaps, sprites and sound, I can forinformation reset Amiga ECS programmer's manual. By the way,
OCS has currently already been implemented in an FPGA by one enthusiast.
Imagine: an Amiga for which you can write in native Z80 assembler!
In general, if you do something new, then do NEW.
I said everything.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Understand the problem more subtly before writing!
Rom> The above mentioned forces work at 450 and higher
Ah, “tens of megahertz” - this turns out to be not enough. Well, before the zhefors there was a lot of things
at even lower frequencies.
Spritetiles are far from the only way to “make quick graphics”,
SD expansion and parallel processing are a good technique used in
including on modern hardware - with all its megahertz.
And I’m constantly learning materiel.
And I check the hypotheses with calculations before immediately shouting:
"EDI-I-I-I-I-INHHY WAY!!!" ;)
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Yessss? Are there spritetile engines in the same forces?
Let>
Understand the problem more subtly before writing!
The above-mentioned forces work at 450 and above
Regarding bitmap modes, it doesn’t take much intelligence to make collisions
P.S. learn the materiel ;) You still need it
Hello, Sergey
Ser> Which one is better?
I would even say - “where is it better?”
Hello Lethargeek
Let> and I'm waiting for comments from someone.
I understood the hint, but I don’t have time... I can say one thing - it’s not a bad idea... doc
It’s hard to get into the brain... In the near future I’ll try to re-read and understand.
Hello MegaMyth
Organization of the mouse cursor: Mouse - sprite size 32*32 pixels*8bit, essential
with transparency... the sprite itself is not in video memory but in memory
FPGA. The position on the screen is set by writing to the port.
I will most likely make more than one sprite, depending on the free memory in the pls.
On a week-long trip home, I thought about the meaning and necessity of sprites. bye
I came to the conclusion that they are not particularly needed. I'll think more - and most likely
I’ll give them up... for compatibility with B9990, sprite support will be at the level
Software+blitter.
Since there are quite a lot of free cells left in the corduroy, I think it has
organize a coprocessor for working with graphics.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> On Far Far Away there are no collisions in any mode (no one found it in
Let> manuals).
Let>
OMG!!! Has anyone really found a blitter engine with hardware collisions???
:v2_jawdr; %);
Name of the card or video chip?
Hello, boo_boo
boo> that is, the cursor sprite will be tightly stitched, or am I stupid?
boo> :v2_blink;
Nope,; Plis, as a rule, also has a bit of a shame: v2_wink2; .; Type for cursor
that's enough.
Hello Lethargeek
Let> I have it, I read it. Amiga ECS is no longer relevant, now you can do it
Let> is much better...
How exactly is it better?
Now, I’m not a professional, and I want someone to explain it to me.
Have you seen the A600 running at 7 MHz with 1 MB CHIP RAM? And she has ECS.
For ZX, in my opinion, it will be enough.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> the sprite itself is not in video memory, but in FPGA memory.
Meg> The position on the screen is specified by writing to the port.
that is, the cursor sprite will be tightly stitched, or am I being stupid? :v2_blink:
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Oh, I haven’t tried any emuls... In your opinion, ECS is the top
Let> perfection? Funny. :D
Well, no one spoke about the height of perfection.
But you couldn’t see the Amiga under the emulator,
because There is no Amiga emulator, because it does not exist in nature.
And you don’t need to remind me about all sorts of UAE and his ilk.
I have a real A1200 and a friend has a six hundred.
Let> “Better” can be done, at least by stupidly increasing quantitative
Let> characteristics - colors, layers, speed...
colors - build up;
layers - build up;
speed - yes please!
Over the past 20 years, technology has advanced so much that on a modern element base
it will fly anyway.
Let> And limit ourselves only to the capabilities of ECS today
Let> a day is simply stupid - it will have almost no effect on costs.
There is no need to limit yourself - there are also AGA and AAA chipsets :-)
I gave this as an example, to show how it looks on well-thought-out
computers.
Let> Such promotion in itself is not interesting, it is much more important to provide
Let> flexibility and convenience for the coder. And another thing is that the Amiga chipset
Let> ess-but it was not sharpened for the measly 16-bit address bus, memory withLet> processor and other tasks there are common...
And I suggested the Z380. What's the problem?
Let> on Spec everything is completely different... some restrictions of Spec are possible
Let> turn in his favor
Let>
How?
Let> And even in those days the chipset could have been brought to perfection - yes, you see
Let> they were in a hurry, they exceeded the estimate, and they may even have considered it unprofitable
Let> further improvements
Hello Lethargeek
Let> And there is nothing in simultaneous collision checking during blitting
Let> there is nothing fundamentally unsolvable. There will be some nuances depending
Let> from the sequence of operations, but that’s all. And even the heaviest
Let> cases can be bypassed, for example, using a separate buffer
Let> collisions (although I have a hard time imagining where this could be
Let> be needed), fortunately there is more than enough speed.
Let>
Has anyone done a collision based on the color border?
In this case, a special collision buffer is not needed...
Hello Romanich
Rom> did anyone make collisions using the color border?
Rom> in this case, a special collision buffer is not needed...
It's quite easy to check for the overlap of any two colors during
blitting (not even individual colors, but entire ranges - if you enter masks
bit indifference); in bitplane modes - also with 8-point detail.
Moreover (unlike sprite collisions) the flag is not global, it can be
reset after each or several operations (this is why it is important to follow the order
keep an eye on it), but it’s even better IMHO.
Well, with the buffer you can already pervert as you want (if you suddenly need something
special).
Hello Romanich
Rom> did anyone make collisions using the color border?
Rom> in this case, a special collision buffer is not needed...
It's quite easy to check for the overlap of any two colors during
blitting (not even individual colors, but entire ranges - if you enter masks
bit indifference); in bitplane modes - also with 8-point detail.
Moreover (unlike sprite collisions) the flag is not global, it can be
reset after each or several operations (this is why it is important to follow the order
keep an eye on it), but it’s even better IMHO.
Well, of course, you can pervert the buffer however you want...
Hello, Sergey
Ser> Well, no one spoke about the height of perfection.
"...where is it better"? ;)
Ser> And you couldn’t see the Amiga under the emulator
Just really “couldn’t”? Yes, emulators distort the sound, the response too, some
hardware nuances (invisible to the user), but it’s quite possible to draw up graphics
adequate impression, even adjusted for the jerky scrolling (if you notice).
This applies to all emulators.
Ser> There is no need to limit yourself - there are also AGA and AAA chipsets :-)
AAA no. :) It's not even finished in the draft.
AGA is that same “stupid build-up”, a desperate marketing ploy so that in the eyes
buyers did not lag behind SVGA in terms of external features. It's cool that in
the next Amigas were not even planned to support AGA compatibility, but
only with ECS - this is about “thoughtfulness”. :D
Ser> And I suggested the Z380. What's the problem?
In Z380. :) That is, again the only way to solve Spectrum problems is
sculpt a “new clone” (this is almost ;) not an attack) with all sorts of built-in features, but
then your own “new computer software-clone” will appear, at best - a handful
active users... we've already gone through all this. We need to make a video card that
it will be possible to freely attach to both old Specs and possible new ones, whileanticipate potential pitfalls in advance. Well, you shouldn’t demand every gadget
from the user a new computer!
Ser> How?
Well, for example, refuse to locate the video buffer at any addresses, as in
Amiga, from different sizes of the virtual screen - all this can be simulated in
due to increased speed (and it’s easier to switch tasks); but on Speck it’s all
equal address space of 64K and 16K pages are printed. Page times
fixed, easy to expand the data bus, hence the high blitting speed
(on the Amiga the blitter can only write in one plane). Even in the 80s
theoretically it was possible to make a graphics chipset for the Z80 faster than the Amiga (!), although
not as fast as it is now. Restrictions are not always bad. :)
Hello MegaMyth
A perverted imagination immediately throws up ideas... 4 palettes of 256 colors - this
w 1024 points per scanline with unique colors, and if you make hardware
switching by scanline quarters... =)
But 16 bits and transparency are poorly compatible - either 5x6x5 or 5x5x5x1 =(
PS; something; I don't see the bitmap.
Hello Romanich
Yesterday I implemented a hardware mouse cursor.
It works like this:
When writing a specific bit to a specific port, the data is not written to
video memory (meaning screen) and into cursor memory.
The cursor size is fixed and is 32x32pixels*8bit. Memory allocated 2KB,
which is quite enough for 2 cursor images that also switch
writing to the port. The transparency color is written to a separate register.
Palette manipulations do not affect the cursor.
Cursor coordinates are stored in 3 ports of the chip
1 port xxxxxxxx - low 8 bits of cursor coordinates
Port 2 YYYYXXXX - high 4 bits of coordinates
Port 3 yyyyyyyy - low 8 bits of cursor coordinates
A little about the palette:
Writing to the palette is done in the same way as a cursor. 1 set of palette takes
256*16=512 bytes. There are 4 palettes, which can also be switched by recording in
port
One important note: Writing to cursor memory and palette memory is possible
carried out at any time (not only during curb and/or reverse
beam path).
Oh here's another question:
Now I use the following layout of color bits in a byte when displaying without
palettes:
Picture: http://po4tipc.narod.ru/ColorBits.gif
["http://po4tipc.narod.ru/ColorBits.gif"]
Does anyone have a suggestion to cut some color other than blue?
Hello Lethargeek
Let> Well, the evil owner came and ruined such entertainment! :v2_cry;
Let>; Still, it was not entirely offtopic... :v2_wink;
everything; nah... :v2_tong2:
Hello NovaStorm
Meg> Maybe someone has a suggestion to cut some other color instead of
Meg> blue?
You make eight (according to the number of green brightness levels) square signs r8xb8,
you just compress these plates from 64 colors into 32, combining some colors into
groups of 2/3/4, especially in the low brightness area - it will be less noticeable. Although
dark pictures will still look dirty.
And in any case, make the bit layout GRB, not RGB!
Ideally, color codes should line up according to the "reduced monochrome" brightness
(well, at least within these 8 groups).
Hello NovaStorm
Meg> Maybe someone has a suggestion to cut some other color instead of
Meg> blue?
You make eight (according to the number of green brightness levels) square signs r8xb8,
you just compress these plates from 64 colors into 32, combining some colors into
groups of 2/3/4, especially in the low brightness area - it will be less noticeable. Although
dark pictures will still look dirty.
And in any case, make the bit layout GRB, not RGB!
Ideally, color codes should line up according to "reduced monochrome" brightness.
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Tablets, it’s still a palette
No, it’s just a fixed case with the palette turned off, 32*8=256.
You can do it in another way, for example, take fewer creepy acidic flowers...
Hello NovaStorm
Nov> Tablets, it’s still a palette =)
No, it’s just a fixed case with the palette turned off, 32*8=256.
You can do it in another way, for example, take fewer creepy acidic flowers...
Nov> let's say what YV, although 8 bits are certainly not enough.
This is why I don't like the byte per point format. :mad; IN; case with signs
actually simulates 9-bit color, like in the real palette it broke some
partitions between cells, and some colors got mixed up :) (adjusted for
additivity CRT), became 256 instead of 512.
Hello Lethargeek
Can I give you an example, but apparently I’m missing something.
What I was thinking about when talking about YV is the selection of intensity/brightness - take
a palette or scheme that forms colors, the color is specified by the index in the palette and the level
brightness Since fewer dark colors are needed, with uneven
distribution of colors in the palette visually it will be wider =)
Or take the rrggbbii format, in which the result is calculated not as rr^2, but as 2^rr
for example (well, or not 2, but also choose at random), they are again uneven
distribution - less dark, more light.
Hello Lethargeek
Tablets, it’s still a palette =)
In general, the idea is sound - to have a color space not RGB, but let’s say YV
which, although 8 bits is certainly not enough.
Hello NovaStorm
Here in pussies, for example, with the palette turned off (or with the standard one) in the mode
320*200*8 color layout is approximately as follows:
0-15 - YGRB
16-31 - GrayScale
32-255 - Other colors.
Maybe do something like this? Although this is not important, because at
When initializing the application, you can specify your own set of colors. And then - who cares
whatever.
Hello new art
new> A banal commander like Total, at a resolution of 320x240 it already slows down.
Is everything really that bad? What color depth is this?
Once again it will be confirmed that only specialized convenient and fast (and
the main thing is a compatible) external video card will solve the problem of spec graphics.
Hello, DIMA 1
DIM> People, have everyone calmed down, something is being done. There will be a Spectrum for 20
DIM> MHz ?????
He has always been - http://www.zxbada.bbk.org/ ;)
Only the author was drawn to the Ostral world :D
> HI-RES video mode available; 320x256; 4-bit per pixel; now; both frames
> can be separately selected for WRITING/DISPLAYING
Hello, DIMA 1
DIM> People, have everyone calmed down, something is being done. There will be a Spectrum for 20
DIM> MHz ?????
Well, I have a Sprinter.
21 megahertz.
A banal commander like Total, at a resolution of 320x240 it already slows down. :(
Hello Romanich
Rom> In your opinion, the more bullshit on the forum, the more things to do???
Rom> IMHO it’s just the opposite (since everyone is silent, it means there’s no time to write - work
Rom> is boiling).
Rom>
Rom> In my opinion, only a few here are actually doing something!
Rom> The rest just fart... :v2_smoke;
U; everyone who actually does something has long had its own internal mailing list (I issue
the secret of a terrible Masonic conspiracy)...
Hello, DIMA 1
DIM> People, have everyone calmed down, something is being done. There will be a Spectrum for 20
DIM> MHz ?????
Need news? Here they are:
1. My work schedule has changed. 2 days I work 2 days I develop
(I will continue tomorrow)
2. In addition to NonSpectrum modes, only the standard Spectrum mode appeared... how
always works on both RGB and VGA...
Regarding the Spectrum at 20 MHz... it will appear in the near future, at least
as a prototype. But not for me...
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> Regarding the Spectrum at 20 MHz... it will appear in the near future, by
Meg> at least as a prototype. But not for me...
For some reason I have a strange suspicion
that the 21 megahertz Spectrum appeared in 1997.
Hello, Maksagor
> Everyone who actually does something has long had their own internal
> newsletter (I'm giving away the secret of a terrible Masonic conspiracy)...
Yes, we ourselves have no shortage of such secrets... ;)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> A terrible thing has happened... it looks like ACEX has died. When programming
Meg> microcircuits Quartus gives an error, but the microcircuit is detected
Meg> programmer...
Meg> Who has any ideas for what to do?
Look very carefully at all connections to the FPGA!
Something could have come off because of the nozzles on the homemade breadboard!
P.S. at one time there was such garbage with the V9990 - the sync track was just
came off (thickness 0.25mm)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> A terrible thing has happened... it looks like ACEX has died. When programming
Meg> microcircuits Quartus gives an error, but the microcircuit is detected
Meg> programmer...
Meg> Who has any ideas for what to do?
a programming error may be caused by interference on the wires carrying
programming is carried out.
It makes sense to look at where these wires go and route them away from
sources of interference such as a CRT monitor or a switching power supply...
I once had an EPM that was not sewn through the byteblaster - it turned out because
the proximity of the monitor, from which the noisemaker whistled on the wires.
Hello Romanich
Rom> Look very carefully at all connections to the FPGA!
Rom> Because of the nozzles on the homemade breadboard, something could have come off!
The board was not made homemade, but in production with class 5 accuracy... mistakes
no, because it was soldered as expected (stencil, paste, oven).
Hello, WingLion
Win> programming error may be caused by interference on the wires
Win> for which programming is carried out.
Win> It makes sense to look at where these wires go and run them
Win> away from sources of interference such as CRT or pulse monitor
Win> BP...
Win> I once had an EPM, but it didn’t work through the byteblaster - it turned out
Win> due to the proximity of the monitor, which is causing interference to the wires
Win> whistled.
For a month the board lay on the table in front of the monitor. I was flashing msx on
HURRAY. The board was turned on for several hours while I surfed the net and looked for information
(frequency multiplication by mskh without PLL). After which the code was corrected,
compiling the project, then I actually tried to upload the lousy bug. No fee
moved, the monitor stood still... in short, external factors remained
unchanged, except for my mood, which deteriorated when the Ministry of Agriculture stopped
shit :-)
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> For a month the board lay on the table in front of the monitor.
Meg> The MSH was stitched on URA. The board was turned on for several hours, until
Meg> I surfed the net and looked for information (multiplying frequency by MSK without PLL). After
Meg> the code was corrected, the project was compiled, then
Meg> actually I tried to upload the lousy one. The board did not move
Meg> the monitor stood still... but the external factors remained
Meg> unchanged, except for my mood, which deteriorated when MSH
Meg> stopped dancing :-)
and if the board is moved further away from the monitor, is there also an error in the firmware?
CRT Monitor, in addition to being a source of interference, is also a source of killer
CMOS chips static electricity, which can shoot into any
moment just from breathing on the monitor or passing your hand in front of it...
You can also try to sew up something completely simple, some empty
the circuit, if it is sewn up, it means the FPGA is still intact...
Hello Romanich
Today I finally have some free time. For the first time in a week... I will
trying to get this canoe running :-) wish you luck.
Hello MegaMyth
put another one and don't worry
Hello MegaMyth
The solution to the problem was right in front of my nose.
MSH has such an output, which is called nSTATUS, so it was necessary
add on VCCIO. I had it in the air (since I didn’t know what it was
this, and I still don’t know), but for reasons unknown to me, this is not
influenced up to a certain point in time. accidentally poking him with a needle, MSH
sewed up. after which I stitched again 15-20 times, everything was fine, but just in case
threw it where it belongs :-)
These are the miracles.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> The solution to the problem was right in front of our nose.
Meg> there is such an output at MSH, which is called nSTATUS, so you need it
Meg> was added to VCCIO. I had it in the air (since I didn’t
Meg> knew what it was, and I still don’t know), but in a way that was unclear to me
Meg> reasons, this had no effect until a certain point in time.
Meg> accidentally poking it with a needle, MSH sewed it up. after which I sewed up
Meg> again 15-20, everything was fine, but just in case I threw it in the right place
Meg> :-)
Meg>
Meg> These are the miracles.
Well done... but the scheme turned out to be undebugged...
By the way, the nSTATUS output cannot be set to VCCIO. he might die because of this.
It must be connected to VCC with a 1 kOhm resistor.
Hello, WingLion
Win> By the way, you cannot put nSTATUS on VCCIO. he may die because
Win> of this. It must be connected to VCC with a 1 kOhm resistor.
I didn’t have 1K on hand, but 4k7 also seemed okay.
Hello MegaMyth
Meg> I didn’t have 1K on hand, but 4k7 also seemed okay.
10 kOhm would be enough (how much does CMOS need to pull up?), just
Noise immunity in this case is worse. For experiments it will do, but for
In the final device, it is better to install 1 kOhm, or even 510 Ohm, so that you can
Do not substitute the rake.
Hello, The Exploited
The> all that???
Yeah, so what?
I'm not greedy, I don't demand much! :v2_lol:
Hello, WingLion
Win> Yeah, what?
Win> I'm not greedy, I don't demand much
oh, I couldn’t see the letter K in the middle of the night :)
Hello, The Exploited
what a terrible offtopic...
no, that's it... I'm off to the plumbing store to get parts for the Sprinter!
Hello, DIMA 1
DIM> And why is everything quiet????? And Spectrum will not appear at 24 MHz and higher ????
It's only quieted down on the forum. Everything in life is in full swing. True, while I’m traveling around
gravel, but I hope to get rid of them soon :-)
Hello MegaMyth
MegaMyth you should post a couple of photos of how the work is in full swing, it’s interesting....