Scrolling a line
ZXNet echo conference «code.zx»
Hello, mig'95
mig> Ё :v2_conf2; My; inattention will one day destroy me.. Thank you
mig> big..
mig> Well then, one more question... When running any of these in a loop
mig> procedures, the running line shakes and twitches even when
mig> using HALT. How can this be avoided?
Run in real life, not on an emulator: v2_wink2;
(Or; find an emulsion with a 'smart' screen refresh)
Hello, mig'95
mig> I'll try to finish this topic to the end.. In some demos you can
mig> it is not possible to control the scroll speed and the smoothness of movement
mig> is lost.. How is this effect achieved?
In one interruption they scroll not by 1 pixel, but by two, three....
more...
Hello, mig'95
Yo:v2_conf2; My; inattention will one day ruin me.. Thank you
big..
Well then, one more question... When running any of these procedures in a loop,
The ticker shakes and jerks even when using HALT. And what
How can this be avoided?
Hello Titus
Tit> Run in real life, not on an emulator :v2_wink2;
Tit>; (Or find an emulsion with a 'smart' screen refresh)
Real, unfortunately, is not there yet.. But, probably, soon there will be Turbo2+: v2_yahoo;
Will try; finish this topic to the end.. In some demos you can control
scrolling speed and smooth movement are not lost. Due to what
is a similar effect achieved?
Hello Robus
Give the HALT command before each call to your scroller, interruptions are necessary
allow. Or set the scroller to interrupts. In normal emuls there is nothing
should twitch. The games work :)
Hello, mig'95
mig> In some demos you can control scroll speed and smoothness
mig> movement is not lost. How is this achieved
mig> effect?
Ugums...
The main thing is not by how much and what is shifted, but the main thing is that the picture changes
it was synchronous with frame scanning, that's the whole secret: v2_thumb; (if;
omit, of course, small nuances, for example, when the same scrolling occurs with
speed of multiple frame scanning, although it is updated synchronously with it)
Hello ws_mason
ws_> Give the HALT command before each call of your scroller, interrupt
ws_> must be allowed. Or set the scroller to interrupts. In normal
ws_> nothing should twitch in emulsions. The games work
Depending on what is considered a normal emulator.?. There is Unreal, in which you can
synchronize with the screen frame, but 50 hertz is not normal for
modern video cards, not to mention monitors. Only exotic will do
programming video cards, but Windows will not allow this. That's a lot of dilemmas... Ah
HALT, mig'95, already installed...
Hello, mig'95
mig> Well then, one more question... When running any of these in a loop
mig> procedures, the running line shakes and twitches even when
mig> using HALT. How can this be avoided?
It's true, only a real Speccy, or a real emulator can save you. My
The emulator can do this, but on modern LSD monitors it’s not possible, as
In general, almost nothing is possible with modern technology, it’s just degradation. But
if the monitor keeps 50 hertz, then my emulator will do everything to the last pixel
just like on a real Speccy...
Hello, boo_boo
by the way, ah
RL (HL)
no faster than
LD A,(HL)
R.L.A.
LD(HL),A
?
Hello, Jukov
Juk> And here is an optimized version of this procedure:
Juk> ...
Juk>
You just need to take into account that the leftmost familiar place (where L=0) does not move.
Hello, Jukov
Juk> And here is an optimized version of this procedure:
Juk> .....
Juk>
Then it's better like this:
┌─- CODE ───
LD H,#40
M2; LD; L.31
OR A
M1; R.L.; (HL)
DEC L
JR NZ,M1
RL (HL)
INC H
BIT 3,H
JR Z,M2
RET
└── CODE ───
Hello TomCaT
Tom> by the way, eh
Tom>
Tom> ...
Tom> RL (HL) ;2 bytes, 15 clock cycles
Tom> ...
Tom>
Tom> not faster than
Tom>
Tom> LD A,(HL) ;1 byte, 7 clocks
Tom> RLA ;1 byte, 4 clock cycles
Tom> LD (HL),A ;1 byte, 7 clocks
Tom>
Tom> ?
Yes, perhaps this is better.
One byte shorter and 3 clock cycles faster.
Hello TomCaT
The above procedure runs for approximately 10,000 cycles, while the beam
reaches the first line of the screen in 14336 cycles. Add to this another procedure
keyboard polling. However, the procedure ensures synchronization if
the first commands to display a familiar place on the screen after HALT. But
optimized version of this procedure:
M2....LD B,32
M1....DEC L
To be sure that the procedure will work before the beam catches up with it,
you should add the lines at the beginning:
HALT
XOR A
OUT(254),A
And at the end:
LD A,7
OUT(254),A
And the curb will clearly show how long the procedures take.
Hello, caro
car> Тогда уж лучше вот так:
car> ┌─- CODE ───
car>
car> LD H,#40
car> M2; LD; L,31
car> OR A
car> M1; RL; (HL)
car> DEC L
car> JR NZ,M1
car> RL (HL)
car> INC H
car> BIT 3,H
car> JR Z,M2
car> RET
car>
car> └── CODE ───
car>
Ха-ха, я тока что об этом же подумал
Hello Robus
what's the problem with emulsions? if the emulator processes rendering normally
pictures in terms of timing, and switches the graph. buffer when rendering
the last line is completed, and even with synchronization along the reverse path of the beam
for whatever update frequency there is, nothing should twitch.
Hello, boo_boo
boo> what's the problem with emulsions? if the emulator works normally
boo> drawing the picture in terms of timing, and switches the graph. buffer
boo> when rendering of the last line is completed, and even with
boo> synchronized along the reverse path of the beam for
boo> whatever the update frequency is, nothing should twitch.
What to do if the monitor or card refuses to work at 50 hertz?
Break them down by 75? This is where the twitching appears. In addition, in many emulators
Yes, even if you turn on synchronization with the PiCi scan, it starts
mute the sound, making extremely unpleasant sounds. I'm my emulator unfortunately
never finished it due to the fact that everyone is switching to LCD, but he refuses altogether
display anything at 50 hertz. Heh... It's a shame... And before on all computers
it worked, even on the most twisted and stripped-down video cards.
Hello, caro
car> Тогда уж лучше вот так:
car> ┌─- CODE ───
car>
car> LD H,#40
car> M2; LD; L,31
car> OR A
car> M1; RL; (HL)
car> DEC L
car> JR NZ,M1
car> RL (HL)
car> INC H
car> BIT 3,H
car> JR Z,M2
car> RET
car>
car> └── CODE ───
car>
Тогда ещё лучше JR заменить на JP, выиграется ещё 2*31+2*8=78 тактов.
Hello, boo_boo
boo> what's the problem with emulsions? if the emulator works normally
boo> drawing the picture in terms of timing, and switches the graph. buffer
boo> when rendering of the last line is completed, and even with
boo> synchronized along the reverse path of the beam for
boo> whatever the update frequency is, nothing should twitch.
If the emulator is written correctly, but the refresh rate of the computer screen is not
matches the refresh rate of the screen of the emulated machine, it will be at best
case, smooth movement with the 'Motion Blur' effect (relevant for CRT monitors)
Hello Robus
Rob> Unfortunately, I never finished my emulator due to the fact that everything
Rob> switch to LCD, but it refuses to display anything at all
Rob> 50 hertz.
Who's switching... a damn mountain of CRT works... So finish it and wake everything up
normal!!!
Hello Robus
Rob> But if the monitor maintains 50 hertz, then my emulator will do everything before
Rob> of the last pixel just like on the real Speccy ...
Nope. Although my monitor is not the latest [CRT, LG Flatron 795FT Plus], but
The range of available screen refresh rates varies from 60 to 100Hz.
In reality, 85 is used. Apparently, this is where all my troubles come from..
As for the emulator, I use the latest EmuZWin. I really like it
built-in assembler and debugger, and the Windows GUI is quite satisfactory..
:v2_thumb:
Hello, mig'95
Then turn on 100Hz and watch in full screen. if you don't make it too big
scale, that is, the hope is to see smoothness for at least several
seconds :) (I'm not talking about Blur Motion, there is a special song there, and the image is calculated
only for full dynamics - but everyone’s eyes are different, they can see something at 100Hz,
how the screen shakes, for example, but some people don’t even notice at 60).
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> Then turn on 100Hz and watch in full screen. if you don't do too much
Vla> large scale, that is, we hope to see smoothness at least on
Vla> for a few seconds :) (I'm not talking about Blur Motion, there's a song
Vla> is special, and the image is calculated only for full dynamics - but
Vla> everyone's eyes are different, some even see the screen shaking at 100Hz
Vla> for example, but someone doesn’t even notice at 60).
Sorry... but how does smoothness relate to scale?
Apparently we are talking about different Motion Blur: v2_wink2:
Hello, mig'95
You can also unroll the inner loop
RL (HL): DEC L
Hello Robus
The easiest way out is to connect the TV via tv-out, and you will be happy.
Hello Robus
2Titus: to scale - easily. If the image is 2 times larger, calculate
there are 4 times more pixels.
I actually didn't recommend using Motion Blur. This is a particularly special one
The effect, moreover, is far from useful in all cases.
2Robus; If; through one screen make everything black, then the shaking will be even more
than at honest 60 or 50Hz. The biggest problem in the normal case is that
someday (and this happens 0.5-2 times per second) the synchro beam smoothly
(with such a jerk) it passes (from top to bottom or vice versa) across the image. If in
In the usual case, turn off the sound and turn on beam synchronization, then there should be
at 100Hz is ideal. The sound must be turned off, because otherwise... (|) otherwise.
The sound buffer in DirectX floats all the time compared to real time. On
Different machines and sound cards do it differently. But it floats. If there are 44100 samples, this is
does not mean at all that there are actually so many of them. There may be 44099.97967
for example.
Hello Robus
Rob> I have only one problem with it, it’s some kind of glitch in the commands
Rob> needs a person to help catch her... There are a couple of games that
Rob> don't start, but I can't figure out where it's going wrong... I was advised
Rob> ZXALL, but in real life it shows a bunch of CRC(error), and I can’t understand
Rob> what to edit!!!
this is because it is ported from cp/m... you need to check the results of ZXEALL,
which the emulator gives, with results for real life, having scored on the "CRC error" messages
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> 2Titus; To; scale - easily. If the image is 2 times larger,
Vla> 4 times more pixels have to be calculated.
Vla>
Vla> I actually didn't recommend using Motion Blur. This is especially special
Vla> distant effect, and far from being useful in all cases.
The simplest Motion Blur is simply the mathematical sum/2 of two adjacent
frames to obtain the middle frame. The brakes will only work on vintage cars.
:v2_wink2; Nothing; In general, nothing else is required.
Hello Titus
For me, Motion Blur does not slow down only on machines from 2.4 GHz. And on a laptop
something can only be seen at 100% scale. And it goes in jerks. Yes and on the cool ones
In cars at 400% scale it slows down noticeably. We live in an age of terribly slow
iron What did you want? 1-2 percent how many gigahertz they don’t know, never
not equal to our 4 billion. processors in the brain (even if in each individual
moment and no more than 10% of neurons are involved)...
Hello Sinus
Well, I'm struggling a little. But not much good. In windowed mode and even in full
screen, the easiest way to get attached is not to video synchronization, but to sound. Those. he
although not in step with time, it is at least fairly uniform. And on
it’s still not noticeable to the eye that we don’t have exactly 50 frames per second, but for example
49.9. And when it comes to video, I try to dynamically change the number of samples adaptively. But
Not much success is expected here. Because it’s not the system that tells me,
how many samples does she need? This emulator prepares the same 44100/50 and
sends. All that remains is to analyze the current position in the buffer
playing. But the reliability of this indicator is very relative, and all the time
floats on +/- a couple of buffers. So you can't adjust much. When enabled
synchronized on video and the sound is on, you can hear that the sound suddenly starts
speed up, or vice versa slow down. It doesn't work out smoothly.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> For me, Motion Blur does not slow down only on machines from 2.4 GHz. A
Vla> something can only be seen on a laptop at 100% scale. And then it goes
Vla> jerkily. And on cool cars at 400% scale it slows down noticeably. We
Vla> we live in the age of terribly slow iron. What did you want? 1-2 percent
Vla> no matter how many gigahertz they have, they will never be equal to ours
Vla> 4 billion. processors in the brain (even if at each individual moment and
Vla> no more than 10% of neurons are involved)...
Well, again we are talking about different effects, apparently! : :v2_tong;
4 billion?; So what kind of guys are there? Translated into modern analogues?
:v2_wink2:
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> The biggest problem in the normal case is that someday (and
Vla> this happens 0.5-2 times per second) the synchro beam is smooth (with a jerk
Vla> thus) passes (from top to bottom or vice versa) across the image. If in
Vla> in the usual case, turn off the sound and turn on beam synchronization, then
Vla> should be at 100Hz ideally. The sound must be turned off, because otherwise
Vla> ... (|) otherwise. The sound buffer in DirectX floats all the time in comparison
Vla> with real time. It varies on different machines and sound cards.
Vla> But it floats. If there are 44100 samples, this does not mean that there are actually
Vla> there is so much to do. There can be 44099.97967 of them for example.
And how do you deal with this in your emulator?
Hello Robus
Rob> But what is generally impossible to achieve is emulation, for example
Rob> BEEP 60.2, generally high notes. The game BARBARIAN, or rather the music from
Rob> it is not emulated on any emulator, since the music generates
Rob> during 1/4 of the percussion with a frequency of about 100 kilohertz, so in
Rob> emulators can hear a nasty wheezing and whistling...
For this there are banal methods of digital sound processing. And everything will sound.
:v2_wink2:
Hello Titus
Titus
Although I’m not Vladimir, I suspect that it’s not possible ;)
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> Well, I’m struggling a little. But not much good. In windowed mode and even in
Vla> full screen, the easiest way to bind is not to video synchronization, but
Vla> to sound. Those. Although he is out of step with the times, at least
Vla> is quite uniform. But it’s still not noticeable to the eye that we don’t have
Vla> exactly 50 frames per second, and for example 49.9. And when to the video, I try
Vla> dynamically change the number of samples adaptively. But there is no great success here
Vla> is expected. Because it’s not the system that tells me how many samples it has
Vla> is necessary. This emulator prepares the same 44100/50 and sends it.
Vla> All that remains is to analyze the current position in the playback buffer.
Vla> But the reliability of this indicator is very relative, and all the time
Vla> floats on +/- a couple of buffers. So you can't adjust much. When
Vla> with video synchronization turned on and sound turned on, you can hear that the sound suddenly
Vla> sharply begins to accelerate, or vice versa, slow down. Smoothly not
Vla> turns out.
And I synchronize with the upsample, and sample the sound either 44100.73614 or 44099.3746(values are certainly approximate). But this is what is generally impossible to achieve, so
This is an emulation of, for example, BEEP 60.2, generally high notes. The game BARBARIAN, or rather
music from it is not emulated on any emulator, since the music generates
during 1/4 of the flapping with a frequency of about 100 kilohertz, so in emulators
a nasty wheezing and whistling sound is heard...
Hello Titus
Tit> There are banal tricks for digital audio processing for this. And everything will be
Tit> sound.
Give it!!! Process it!!! Music from the game BARBARIAN is not digitalized even when
connecting BEEP'er to SB!!! There is a distinct whistling and wheezing!!! Moreover, in
In Kyiv there were similar pentagons called "KIS" in which there were
digital amplifiers, it was on them that I heard these distortions.
Share your sound processing method. I'm interested in the game BARBARIAN whose music
will be emulated on the emulator.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> I somehow didn’t understand the problems with Barbarian’s music. Sounds normal. A
Vla> what needs to be done to get wheezing/whistles? (Of course
Vla> when in the window and synchronization is based on sound).
Just listen carefully... I won’t sit with the secondman...
Different emulators do it differently, but there is a whistle on all of them. Of course the whistle is not on
throughout the entire music, and in individual pieces...
Vla> Well, so what, 4 times in the frame. Yes, at least 400. I have sound accurate to
Vla> 1 cycle is digitized in the emulator. You can also save in out or
Vla> wav/mp3.
I didn't talk about deployment. However, the number of times in a frame has no meaning
values, the main thing is that the PIC scan of the monitor is 50 hertz, or 51, here
not so important anymore. And mp3 is good, but this is not the main thing in the emulator, someone
plug a super assembler into the emulator, another ethernet. For me the criterion is
similarities with the original, and this is the Z80, video and sound...
In general, everyone has their own needs, for those who want to play all these
the parameters are not important. I can't watch a demo that's from ONE-FRAME
turned into 4xONE-FRAME, it’s really hard on the eyes, not to mention
flying horizontal stripes of the previous frame and the new one...
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> 4 billion - there are no such percentages. This brain of Homo Sapiense contains so much
Vla> (if it doesn’t use C2H5OH too much, of course).
How can one make an analogy with processors if there are no such processors? :v2_wink2:
Hello Titus
4 billion - there are no such percentages. This brain of Homo Sapiense contains so much (if not
uses C2H5OH too much, of course).
I somehow didn’t understand the problems with Barbarian’s music. Sounds normal. What do you need?
should I make wheezing/whistles? (Of course, when in the window and
synchronization is based on sound). Well, so what, 4 times in the frame. Yes, at least 400.
My sound is digitized with an accuracy of 1 clock cycle in the emulator. You can also go out
save or wav/mp3.
Hello Robus
I listened carefully. The music played in a loop several times. Then I turned it off.
No wheezing or whistling, despite the fact that my computer is a 1GHz Celeron. (XP SP2). I'm listening
in the original 48 mode, in our clones it sounds different, noisier. But wheezing and
still no whistles.
I listened to it in the Spectacular. In principle, it’s also quite clean, but several times
snored. A couple of times I had the feeling that the speed of sound was somehow different,
then a very short wheeze, and back to normal. No, well, if the emulator is on the screen
If you don't carry it, it's generally fine.
I can give advice (for my emulator, version 2.7 build 2.8):
1. Enable priority Above Normal (or even High). There will be no brakes, just
the system will more often return control to the emulator, and the main problem is
that in Windows the concept of priority is crooked, for real-time tasks it is not
calculated.
2. If it doesn’t help, then turn off the 2-second rollbacks. This is a feature for players, and
eats a lot. 3. Reduce the window to a minimum. 4. Disable everything in settings
other sound devices (only MIC is needed. Or maybe just GS remains active
since last use? We need to disable GS or at least do
Alt+Reset).
5. In your own sound volume setting, move the lever from 100% to a little
smaller. (Maybe it’s the audio sound at maximum logical volume that’s not behaving wellleads). 6. I DO NOT have antivirus software on my machine. (Enough firewalls and not to climb
wherever you go on the Internet, do not use Outlook with explorers, do not open
whatever happens and prohibit the use of macros in Word 97 - do not install newer ones
worth it. That's all).
Still, try exporting to WAV. At the moment the sound is played, the emulsion itself
It may slow down, but the WAV saves everything as it should
sound in the ideal case.
There are no perfect emulators anyway. And if you just play, then your
there is not much need to do. A hundred of them have already been made for the Spectrum. That makes sense.
It wasn’t difficult for me to make a super assembler, so I added it. Supported idea 256
flowers because it was interesting. And a bunch more fennecs. All for fun. Accuracy
emulation, you say. The problem is this: people programming the emulator (like me),
Real was last seen in working condition about 10 years ago. (That I'm not
especially frustrating: I remember sparks from the board and the stench from the soldering iron, trembling
sneaks through. However, it doesn’t get through anymore). Realism is not a concept at all.
has nothing to do with computers in general, and not just with emulators in
in particular. The main thing in an emulator is to be able to do something as good as
and maybe better than in real equipment. And for realists, emulators in general
no need for it. It's hard for us to be friends. But it has to.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> There are no ideal emulators anyway.
Vla> ...
Vla> The problem is this: people programming the emulator (like me), real
Vla> was last seen in working condition about 10 years ago.
Vla> ...
Vla> Realism - this concept has nothing to do with
Vla> computers in general, and not just emulators in particular. The main thing
Vla> emulator - to be able to do something no worse, and maybe even
Vla> is better than in real hardware. And for realists, emulators in general
Vla> no need. It's hard for us to be friends. But we have to.
There are ideal ones (100% corresponding in timing and compatibility to real
hardware, from the point of view of the program itself executed from the inside).
There is no need to generalize all emulator writers. Here's how to write an absolutely accurate emulsion:
not having hardware at hand is really problematic.
The main thing in an emulator is to at least replicate the emulated machine. And as a maximum -
give a bunch more useful things and goodies.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> I listened carefully. The music played in a loop several times. Then I
Vla> disabled. No wheezing or whistling, despite the fact that I have a Celeron computer
Vla> 1 GHz. (XP SP2). I listen in original 48 mode, in our clones
Vla> sounds different, noisier. But there are still no wheezes or whistles.
Vla>
Vla> I listened to it in the Spectacular. In principle, it’s also quite clean, but
Vla> snored several times. A couple of times I had the feeling that the speed
Vla> some kind of sound, then a very short wheeze, and again
Vla> normal. No, well, if you don’t drag the emulator across the screen, then at all
Vla> is normal.
I hear glitches... I can’t explain at what moment, but they are there... I’m with this
I encountered a problem when I was writing my emulator. And for a long time I couldn’t understand why
Even interpolation doesn’t help, I went through everything, made a complete image of the sound on
frequency of one clock cycle - sampling. After analysis I noticed that at some moments
music, the sound is generated after 12 clock cycles, I went into the program and saw that they were
they are trimming up to 10 OUTs, and I realized that interpolation needs to be done with
sampling clock by clock, and this is a huge pile of data. And this sound is realSpeccy is similar to cymbals, on emulators it is barely audible, on some
In emulsions like cymbals are heard, but on other notes a whistle appears.
And if it sounds different on each emulator, why is the problem not visible? But
in fact, this drawback can be swallowed up; such a thing is not needed very often
accuracy, but 50 hertz is very critical for me. If I hadn't written mine
emulator, then the game I made (WanderLust) I would have rejected. Because
I made it with the hope of flickering graphics, and it just looks unbearable
on emulators, on the real Speccy everything is clear and beautiful.
Vladimir, I wasn’t trying to reject your emulator or anyone else’s, I just
I would like to make the emulator ideal in these matters. And there's nothing wrong with
super-assemblers, I brought this only to show the priorities in
your preferences.
Hello Robus
Uh-uh! :) topic Scrolling line. Emulators elsewhere. There's someone here
keeps order. :)
Hello, Witch Doctor
> what are the floating frames? what 50 hertz? everything works PERFECTLY
> monitor that keeps 100 Hz! both in Unreal and in Kladovsky. And
> wonderLost also flickers normally. And tftshki are, of course, ours
> a general pain for the emulator while they are not suitable... But 50 Hz is possible
> try to enable PowerStrip (if it works, let me know)...
It works at 100 hertz, but trembles during animation... But here is the program
I really liked PowerStrip!!! For the first time I wanted to see what else they could do
emulators!!! Since it is possible to change the frequency in PowerStrip, then why not
do they insert this into emulators? It's interesting to find out how exactly the control happens
video card at the software level!!!
Hello, mig'95
Rob> Since it is possible to change the frequency in PowerStrip, then why don’t they insert it
Rob> is this for emulators?
Yes, it seems that emulator writers are weak to create their own kernel-mode driver. maximum
What are they capable of - using someone else's ;-)
Rob> It is interesting to find out how exactly the video card is controlled
Rob> program level !!!
in principle, no one bothers to find out (unless laziness outweighs interest). take it
yes, disassemble your video card driver, run it under a debugger... that's the way
simpler - read the sources of Linux drivers. just be prepared for the fact that
this information will be useless for a card from another manufacturer or for
another generation of cards
Hello, Witch Doctor
> It also seems to me that soon 10Hz will be available on TFT
There is no practical need for PC programs in this, only harm. unless,
to trick users into upgrading, like how Intel is now pushing the built-in
sound 24 bit, 192 khz
Hello SMT
I have a Radeon at home and I installed ATITool on it - which does
refresh-rate-fix - so I set it to 100Hz at Unreal resolutions (or maybe
120) and the running lines ran clearly, I didn’t notice any twitching, and the running lines
the lines were different - from pixel to byte. My monitor (I have a professional CRT)
at Unreal resolutions it can give 200 hertz, but I just didn’t think about it
over these - whether it is necessary or not - because everything is beautiful anyway. The higher the frequency
updates - the better the emulsion shows the picture.
Regarding the type of monitors, I think so - LCDs are also growing due to speed (time
response and refresh rate), so don't be upset about the decrease
CRT population is not worth it - write emuls.
Hello,GriV
It also seems to me that soon there will be 10Hz on TFT. :)
Hello Kurles
Kur> the easiest way out is to connect the TV via tv-out, and it will be
Kur> happiness.
In this case, will vblank on TV = vblank on Spectrum? Emuli is
are they tracking?
Hello SMT
Gri> This is not a show-off. If these were show-offs, then people would not prefer
Gri> go, say, to a concert hall to listen to the orchestra and only sit
Gri> at home
Do they go there for the sound? This is, like, a cultural holiday for them, a show-off.
If they put acoustics at home at 192khz, will they stop going to concerts? yes
nothing. and "good sound" is just an excuse
Gri> In general, this is most likely not a reference to physiology, but to TAU - there is a concept
Gri> AFC and LFC. The human ear also has its own frequency response (AFC). So, for
Gri> frequencies of 18-20 kHz (36-40 kHz sampling frequency) human
Gri> the ear does not hear at all, as is assumed by the developers of all sorts of MP3
Gri> and hearing is weakened. That. the sound originally recorded at 192 kHz will be
Gri> sound better even for the average person, and for people with
Gri> with a trained ear, in general, the difference will be immediately obvious
Any ideas why this is so? ear - a set of resonators. if the HF resonator
picks up something above its resonance frequency, then similarly it picks up
frequencies are lower. that is, everything is within the noise error of the device ;-)Gri> If you don’t believe me, go to any online store and look
Gri> characteristics of Hi-End headphones and speakers - the standard is there
Gri> upper limit 44 kHz (88 kHz sampling rate)
marketoids pearat
Hello SMT
Yes... about the flickering of the TFT - they made me laugh :)
Indeed, it is better for such monitors to expand the Hertz range from 50 to as long as
it makes sense and this will be through the roof, because as SMT already wrote - there is no
flickering... But I can’t get to our monitors with PowerStripom - on the subject
try 50 Hz - what if!
Hello,GriV
Gri> Well, once upon a time, 22 kHz 8-bit sound was considered almost ideal,
Gri> ...
Gri> If they make 192 kHz, then there are people who hear the difference
192 kHz, therefore the transmitted frequency band is up to 96 kHz. Can you hear 96 kHz? A
80? How about 60? How about 30? And therefore - show-off: v2_finge; :v2_tong:;
Hello megabyte
meg> There is no practical need for this for PC programs, only harm.
meg> perhaps to trick users into upgrading, like what Intel is doing now
meg> pushes built-in audio at 24 bits, 192 khz
Well, once upon a time 22kHz 8-bit sound was considered almost ideal, when VGA monitors
worked at 60Hz and this was considered great progress. And try someone's thread
Set it to 60 Hz - all your nerves will be frayed, tortured, and even more so the sound is 22 kHz 8 bit
listen - complete nonsense.
If they make 192 kHz, then there are people who hear the difference, since it’s already 85 Hz
vertical scan is not the maximum, which means there are people who see the difference.
And if so, then the postulation of practical necessity is accepted as incorrect
(((-;
P.S. I see the difference between 85 and 100 Hz on my monitor, but I don’t really want to say that
at 85 my eyes start to hurt, etc., but I see flickering.
Hello SMT
SMT> 192 kHz, therefore the transmitted frequency band is up to 96 kHz. You are 96kHz
SMT> do you hear? What about 80? How about 60? How about 30? And therefore - show-off
This is not a show off. If these were show-offs, then people would not prefer to go, say
to the concert hall to listen to the orchestra and just sit at home.
In general, this is probably not a reference to physiology but to TAU - there is the concept of frequency response and
LACHH. The human ear also has its own frequency response (AFC). So, beyond frequencies of 18-20 kHz
(36-40 kHz sampling frequency) the human ear does not hear at all, like
It is assumed by the developers of all kinds of MP3, but the hearing is weakened. That. sound
originally recorded at 192 kHz will sound better even for
the average person, and for people with trained hearing in general
the difference will be immediately obvious. If you don’t believe me, go to any online store and
look at the characteristics of Hi-End headphones and speakers - there the standard is
upper limit 44 kHz (88 kHz sampling rate). Maybe samples like this
frequencies are difficult to find in nature, but that’s a topic for another conversation.
SMT> yes because the screen does not flicker (almost, but this does not affect the frame rate
SMT> has relationships)
I agree it doesn’t flicker, but it doesn’t flicker not because of the steepness of the LCD|TFT, but rather because
the fact that their grain is very inert compared to CRT. Grain response timeThe LCD monitor is falling, which means that the Hertz voltage in general tends to increase
than falls, and the corresponding conclusions.
SMT> it's the same as running quake with fps=500 without vsync
I agree, but I run with vsync at 100Hz, and to be honest I want more, so
maybe 500 fps with vsync (respectively 500 Hz) is not the limit. And the logic is this
- 100Hz is a period of 1/100 of a second (10 ms), which means that in reality
there is a delay between what should be on the screen and what should be displayed
make a gamer with a mouse, keyboard, etc. 10ms is compared to the reaction
human (motor and mental) is not so small, which means at least with
From this point of view, monitor frequencies will increase.
SMT> (the card heats up less, less frequency band is used, less
SMT> em-noise from the cord)
??? the average user doesn’t care much about this, but the developers have come up with a bunch of new ones
standards - for example UDI (successor of HDMI).
Hello,GriV
Damn, they wrote my nickname crookedly twice in a row ))))-;
Hello,GriV
Griv
Why is 100Hz on LCD and other TFT unnecessary and harmful?
yes, because there is still a buffer inside the Monica, where the picture is added,
and then it is displayed on the LSD matrix.
and there will be no gain at 100Hz other than cheap show-off.
Hello, mig'95
Griv
Why is 100Hz on LCD and other TFT unnecessary and harmful?
yes because the screen does not flicker (almost, but this does not affect the frame rate
relationships). it's the same as running quake with fps=500 without vsync - all steam
goes into the air, and the rendered frames don’t even reach the monitor. that's why I
I prefer, where possible, 60Hz on the LCD instead of 75 (the card heats up less, smaller
frequency band used, less EM noise from the cord)
Hello,GriV
Gri> I agree it doesn’t flicker, but it doesn’t flicker not because of the steepness of the LCD|TFT but
Gri> on the contrary because their grain is very inert compared to CRT
LOL! I would send you to Google, but apparently it’s useless (if you haven’t already
you know). so I’ll explain right away: on a CRT, the beam hits the grain and it
time is shining. on the next frame it hits again, hence the flickering. on LCD
the cell opened, and the light from the backlight located behind the matrix
passes freely. you need to put a black pixel - the cell is closed. on
static picture, the extra hertz is just a load on the card-monitor interface
Well, about 500Hz in new games. well, I brought quake specifically as absurd
example. in new games no one will make it possible to fps=500, because for the user
unnoticed. It’s better to spend power on detail, shadows, physics, etc., so that
the user clearly saw what he paid money for
Hello, Witch Doctor
> Indeed, it is better for such monitors to expand the Hertz range from 50
> as long as it makes sense and this will be through the roof, because as I already wrote
> SMT - there is no flickering there... But I can’t get to our moniques
> PowerStripom - to try 50 Hz - what if!
I got there at work!!! Nothing has changed... =) Moreover, I found
documentation on TFT operation. Crystals from gray to seorm, that is, GrayToGray
have a response time of 40 ms, which is 25 hertz, the return time from BTW, then
there BlackToWhite has a response time of 100 ms, which is 10 hertz. If on
at a frequency of 50 hertz, changing the white screen to black and back will just be gray,
if you do this at a frequency of 100 hertz, it will be dark gray. I think Sony
I recently installed a super high-speed matrix with a GTG response time of as much as 35
ms. But PowerStrip is a thing, only at 100 hertz Spec’s scrolls 4 times
It’s not possible to read a pixel at all, except with a pause...
Hello, Witch Doctor
Nothing funny. But TFT flickering is observed precisely on moving objects.
For example, I take an image of the starry sky, each star = 1 pixel. I'm starting
slowly rotate the camera. The flickering is evident.
Hello Robus
Rob> Probably not flickering but bifurcation, just having a previous point
Rob> white color became gray.
namely flickering: multi-colored dots, but on a pure black background. With a smooth
movement of the camera, the points all almost simultaneously jump to the neighboring one
pixel, but it lights up in a new place not at the same time when it goes out in
the previous one, and a little later (it seems to me that later, but maybe earlier). In the end
the screen simultaneously doubles its brightness for a short moment, and so on
periodically.
> I’ll probably never buy a TFT for myself, Windows annoys me
> with a braking arrow, and here even the brakes are double. "pipe" - strength.
What if you want a laptop? I like to work lying down and reclining :)
Hello SMT
> it lights up in a new place not at the same time when it goes out in
> the previous one, and a little later (it seems to me that later, but maybe earlier).
> As a result, the screen simultaneously doubles in size for a short moment
> brightness, and so on periodically
by the way, yes. 2 years ago I observed such an effect on the LCD; When; drag and drop
the window in Windows, it seems to be highlighted. childhood disease technology
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> Nothing funny. But TFT flickering is observed precisely on moving ones
Vla> objects. For example, I take an image of the starry sky, each star = 1
Vla> pixel. I begin to slowly rotate the camera. The flickering is evident.
Probably not flickering but bifurcation, just the previous point having a white color
turned gray.
I’ll probably never buy a TFT for myself, Windows annoys me because it’s slow
arrow, and here even the brakes are double. "pipe" - strength.
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> Nothing funny. But TFT flickering is observed precisely on moving ones
Vla> objects. For example, I take an image of the starry sky, each star = 1
Vla> pixel. I begin to slowly rotate the camera. The flickering is evident
Most likely the problem is in the software. if not, then such a monitor is in the firebox. on mine,
when you watch zx demos with all sorts of flying dots or running lines without
sound and vsync, everything is perfect, nothing doubles
Rob> Moreover, I found documentation on how TFT works. Crystals from gray to
Rob> seormu, that is, GrayToGray have a response time of 40 ms, which is
Rob> 25 hertz, departure time from BTW, that is, BlackToWhite has time
Rob> response is 100 ms, which is 10 hertz. If at a frequency of 50 hertz
Rob> changing the white screen to black and back will just be gray, if this
Rob> do it at a frequency of 100 hertz and it will be dark gray. I think Sony
Rob> recently released a super high-speed matrix with GTG response time
Rob> as much as 35 ms
read something newer. for example, it’s been over a year since publication:
http://news.ferra.ru/hard/2005/03/28/49293/ - 12 and 8 msand this year they took the bar to 6ms (166 Hz max.):
http://news.ferra.ru/hard/2006/03/02/56245/
Moreover, in computer press I read the test results for color purity and time
response, which were carried out with special equipment from which you can make
the conclusion is that the specifications indicate more or less honest milliseconds
(perhaps there is an on-line version of the article on cpress.ru)
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
Vla> ... in the previous one, and a little later (it seems to me that later, but maybe
Vla> earlier). As a result, the screen simultaneously turns off for a short moment
Vla> doubles the brightness, and so on periodically.
I had something similar too. We used a matrix in the device, where
The Japs made shades of gray using the method of flickering dots, in general one frame -
the point is there, the other is not. I liked it so much... I made a semblance of Windows,
all sorts of windows and as soon as I placed one window above the other I noticed stains,
I sat down and began to curse this woman. Probably all these problems are due to attempts
make technology cheaper.
Vla> And if you want a laptop? I like to work lying down and reclining
Yes, I also like to code while lounging. But it’s better for me to leave the monitor the same, but
keyboard on a long cable.
SMT> consider something newer. for example, it’s been more than a year since publication:
SMT>
SMT> http://news.ferra.ru/hard/2005/03/28/49293/ - 12 and 8 ms
SMT> and this year they took the bar to 6ms (166 Hz max.):
SMT> http://news.ferra.ru/hard/2006/03/02/56245/
SMT> and I read the results in computer press
Yes... Impressive data, I wonder how many “millions” he is worth. I would likeIt's interesting to drive such a monitor. There’s one more thing I really don’t like about LCD,
this is a standard matrix size, it costs 640x480 to place on a 1024x768 matrix,
How the graphics deteriorate. You need to make a matrix, for example 16384x16384 =), just kidding,
of course... It seems that this could be solved by changing the brightness of the point,
why don't they do it? Although maybe I was driving very cheap monitors.
Hello Robus
Rob> Yes... Impressive data, I wonder how many “millions” it costs.
Rob> I would be interested in driving such a monitor
Is it really the same in Kyiv with the arrival of the Orange? has it arrived? I have it on my nearby computer.
in the basement you can buy a BenQ 17' 1280x1024 8ms for 6,600 rubles. in the meantime,
Markedoids are already promoting 19' 4ms for 14 thousand rubles with might and main. (although which card can give
250hz). in six months and 4ms lcd will go at low-end prices
Any doubts left? I can give you a link to the online price list
Rob> There’s one more thing I really don’t like about the LCD, it’s the standard size
Rob> matrices, it is worth placing 640x480 on a 1024x768 matrix, like graphics
Rob> spoils
Well, good interpolation is used for photos. but with text/drawings
it turns out succulent (it would be better if instead of covering up the edges they would do a simple doubling of the dots
640x480->1280x1024). however, drivers for nvidia may require less resolutions
workers, show the picture in the middle of the screen without distortion, and leave the edges
black
Hello SMT
SMT> is it really the same in Kyiv with the arrival of the orange ones? has it arrived?
Why write this? Is it really not understood that politics brings only wars and
swearing? Why stream this? Don’t forget that no matter what city we live in
First of all, we are people and first of all you need to smile at the person you are looking at.
in the eyes, and behind the “monitor”!!!
SMT> in my nearest computer. in the basement you can buy BenQ 17' 1280x1024 8ms
SMT> for 6600 rub. Meanwhile, the Markedoids are already pumping 19' 4ms in 14
SMT> t.r. (although which card can give 250hz). in six months and 4ms LCD
SMT> will go at low-end prices
I don’t understand... This is the response time of the equipment that buffers the data and
then displays them at a speed of 50ms or 8ms directly to the point??? I,
So far, I have not seen with my own eyes any monitor that would display at least
75Hz pixel scrolling, and this is a typical sign that the crystals can’t keep up
turn around. In price lists they constantly write the regeneration speed of electronics, and not
physical representation of a point.
Hello Robus
Rob> Why write this? Is it really not clear that politics only presents
Rob> wars and swearing? Why stream this?
wait, wait. did it really hurt? it means rubbish that we have freely
available, does it cost you “millions”? I just didn’t quite believe it, I thought it was propaganda.
which means it's true...
Rob> I don’t understand... This is the response time of the equipment that buffers
Rob> data and then displays it at a speed of 50ms or 8ms
Rob> directly to the point ???
no, everything is fair
Rob> I have not yet seen with my own eyes any monitor that would
Rob> displayed at least 75Hz pixel scrolling, and this is a typical sign
Rob> because the crystals do not have time to turn
I saw 60Hz. I haven’t tried 75, at a resolution of 1280 60hz max, but why not.
progress in residential complexes over the past 2 years cannot be ignored. in general, a train
the afterglow from jumping scrolls was clearly visible on my old one
Spectrum CRT "Electronics" at ink 7 : bright 1 : paper 0
Well, remember the 3-colors if... they didn’t shake, which means the CRT screen was slow
approximately 60ms (1000/50*3). so high latency is good for
spektrumist ;-)
Hello Robus
Rob> I don’t understand... This is the response time of the equipment that buffers
Rob> data and then displays it at a speed of 50ms or 8ms
Rob> directly to the point ??? I haven't seen it with my own eyes yet
Rob> no monitor that would display at least 75Hz pixel
Rob> scrolling, and this is a typical sign that the crystals are not keeping up
Rob> turn around. The price lists constantly mention the regeneration rate
Rob> electronics, rather than a physical representation of a point.
This article explained a lot to me at the time:
http://www.fcenter.ru/online.shtml?articles/hardware/monitors/10071
["http://www.fcenter.ru/online.shtml?articles/hardware/monitors/10071"].
Presented clearly, professionally and clearly. Well, the rest of the articles can be found in that
topic to read, but I haven’t read it. :)
Hello SMT
SMT> wait, wait. did it really hurt? that means the rubbish we have
SMT> is freely available, does it cost you “millions”? I just didn’t quite believe it
SMT> thought it was propaganda. which means it’s true...
What should have hurt??? Don't you understand that all that hurts me is
an attempt to play this stupid game called politics! I don't know which one
propaganda, but 250 dollars is not freely available!!! I'm over 120
I bought a DELL P1110 (21~), which supports both 35 hertz and 200 at 1024x768, although not
should according to the documentation. Therefore, that rubbish called TFT with restrictions is for me
for $250 (6600 rubles, I hope I calculated correctly) is not needed. And Samsungs are $100
which are even more trashy and even more unnecessary. Maybe in a year, when I
I will see that it works normally under DOS, that everything that worked on the handset will be
work on TFT and will cost around $100, then I’ll think about buying it.
In all countries of the planet they always pour mud on neighboring countries, sorry, but
I don’t pay attention to such news, the only thing I’m very sorry for is
poor soldier guys who then, thanks to this dirt, run in front of the bullets.
Hello,GriV
Gri> Well, in general, go Google it yourself. After the beam hits the CRT cell
Gri> it receives a charge - the phenomenon of the external photoelectric effect, and thanks to this
Gri> for some time (as long as the charge received from the beam sic! charge is enough,
Is Gri> being spent? ;-)) it glows (and the beam itself has long gone away
Gri> from there). In LCD monitors the principle is different but the essence is the same
Laugh again ;-) the essence is not the same. when the beam leaves the CRT cell, it immediately
starts to fade. that is, the static picture flickers in any case, you can see
is it to the eye or not. in LCD everything depends on the backlight; with a good lamp, static (and
that’s what they mostly work with) doesn’t flicker
Gri> Robus told you a little further, but you shrugged it off as characteristics
Gri> LCD monitors are DIFFERENT, and usually the characteristic that is written (4 ms and
Gri> etc.), which is the most
I never forgot about it. If you also read my posts, you would have noticed
that on May 05 14:52 I gave 2 characteristics - the worst and the best. and even
the worst is quite good at 60hz
Gri> go read the same ixbt.com or fcenter.com - just with helpGri> of special equipment, it is measured and shown what and how
lies and provocation! I provided links, now it’s your turn to find publications
2005-2006, from which it would be clear that there are no affordable LCDs capable of
display any effect at a frequency of 60hz. Well? (the Specter link doesn't work
due to its date)
Gri> everything is exactly the opposite - when you drag on a gray background
Gri> you will see gray molds (of course different in color)
Gri> that notorious flickering effect (the trail from the windows), and that’s what it’s connected with
Gri> with the inertia of grain - even if you crack it, you won’t go anywhere
maybe you won’t argue about the taste of oysters with those who ate them ;-) that’s how it is now
I did it, there is no loop. take an average 8ms monitor and check
Gri>
SMT> do they go there for sound? they have it, like,
SMT> Gri> cultural recreation, show-off. if they install acoustics at home
SMT> 192khz then
SMT> Gri> will they stop going to concerts? nothing. and "good sound" -
SMT> simple
SMT> Gri> excuse
SMT> SMT> No, they don’t float, read again the place where you pulled the quote from
a good avoidance of the answer... that is, you think that with the arrival of 192/32 (well, let
not these numbers, but when the characteristics of home systems are equal to those of the halls)
Will concert halls die out?
Hello Specter
Spe> This article explained a lot to me at one time:
Spe> http://www.fcenter.ru/online.shtml?.../monitors/10071. Clearly
Spe> professionally and clearly presented. Well, the rest of the articles can be found in that
Spe> read the topic, but I haven’t read it.
Hey, that’s how... I didn’t even read it before I started answering right away, but it turned out
that someone had already made a link to fcenter before me...
Quote from the above article:
> Very often users ask the same question - how to measure
> response time without using any special
> equipment? Alas, this is impossible; at most, it is only possible
> subjectively evaluate it in the categories “I’m satisfied” or “I’m not satisfied
> is fine" by launching some dynamic game. Users
> trying to estimate response time using special tests in which
> usually a white square running on a black background is used
> (for example, Passmark Monitor Test), make at least one error T
> by blurring this square you can only estimate time> switching from black to white and back, and as I said above,
> the real performance of the matrix in most cases is not determined
> it. In addition, users often transfer the experience to LCD monitors
> testing CRT monitors, assessing response time by dragging
> running square train. On CRT monitors, indeed, in effect
> their specifics (almost instantaneous ignition of the pixel and
> exponential graph when it is cleared) the running square will be
> have clear edges and a weakly luminous relatively long trail
> (the “tail” of the exponential function describing the pixel blanking); on
> LCD monitors will not always have such a loop, because on many
> in matrices, the graph has a completely different look, without a long “tail” C
> many people conclude from this that modern LCD monitors are already
> have surpassed CRTs. You need to pay attention to the blurring of the front and
> the back edges of the square C are what demonstrate the response time
> matrices. The picture below shows a typical pattern for white> square moving across a black background from left to right: top
> shows a picture from a CRT monitor (clear edges, but the long one is weak
> luminous cable), and at the bottom C from a typical LCD monitor (absent
> noticeable trail, but very blurry edges):
>
These blurred edges are a consequence of the inertia of the LCD, and therefore are impossible on the LCD (according to
at least now, and at any resolution) look at the running lines in
emulator (or maybe in some native demo thread).
Hello SMT
SMT> LOL! I would send you to Google
Well, in general, go Google it yourself. After the beam hits the CRT cell, it
receives a charge - the phenomenon of the external photoelectric effect, and due to this some
time (as long as the charge received from the beam is enough) it glows (and the beam itself is already
left there a long time ago). In LCD monitors the principle is different but the essence is the same. Robus a little
I told you further, but you shrugged it off that the characteristics of LCD monitors are DIFFERENT,
and usually the characteristic that is written (4 ms, etc.), which is the most
itself - let's say black to white or black to black. It doesn't matter which one it is
mechanism for creating an image, but there is a difference in response time. Flicker
it is not visible on LCD monitors not because they are so cool, but because they
others and the image is created according to a different principle. Previously, LCD manufacturers
monitors in this sense were less hacky and wrote the time of transition from gray to
gray, and to this day it doesn’t hurt, it’s changed, go read the same
ixbt.com or fcenter.com - with the help of special equipment it
it is measured and shown what and how. That same “childhood disease of technology” about
which you said is a GI disease in general, and everything is exactly the opposite - when
you will carry gray molds on a gray background (different colors, of course)
you will see that notorious flickering effect (the trail from the windows), but it’s connectedit has exactly the inertia of grain - even if you crack it, you won’t go anywhere.
The first EGA monitors had a frequency of 60 Hz, unlike the then existing CGA
monitors (which had a refresh rate of 50 Hz) and flickering at the same 60
hertz on those EGA monitors (and 50 Hz on the same CGA monitors) is much less
noticeably than on modern CRT monitors. The reason is simple - frequencies are increasing and
The capabilities of the phosphor are growing - user requirements are growing - and therefore fortunately
support for 50 Hz seems wild, although everyone at home has TVs that
This is the frequency they operate at.
But if you take electronic paper, there is no flickering at all,
there the update time is at best 4 frames per second...
Before arguing in general, you should understand the subject, that's what...
Hello SMT
SMT> do they go there for sound? This is, like, a cultural vacation for them
SMT> show off. If they put acoustics at home at 192khz, they will stop coming.
SMT> to concerts? nothing. and “good sound” is just an excuse
SMT>marketoids pear
No, they don’t soar, read again the place where you pulled the quote from.
However, I came across people who proved to me that excellent
buy acoustics for $50.
Hello SMT
:-D
heh.. what was the conversation about? - about the fact that CRT monitors have a ticker
looks uh without a date (-; but not on LCD monitors. And after that I said that
LCD monitors will grow and someday will catch up with CRTs, but you didn’t like it
(-; I believe in the power of progress, and you? ((((-;
Hello,GriV
I think we've already caught up. that's all
Hello,GriV
Gri> No, they don’t float, read again the place where you pulled the quote from.
Gri>
Gri> However, I came across people who proved to me that it is possible
Gri> buy excellent acoustics for $50.
If they are not doing PR, show a person who can distinguish frequencies by ear at least in
range 30-40 kHz:v2_rolley
Hello Titus
I don’t know what about the differences between 30-40 kHz, but 20-30 kHz is very audible. Especially
if you feel the headphones.
And as for inertia - there is, for example. in Samsung 173r+ (precisely with +) such a thing
- it is clear that switching the “blinds” to the opposite position is the most
fast (i.e. white-black) and the smaller the change in position - the slower -
up to 70ms (i.e. you can presumably watch a movie in some pixels...
gee-gee... there won’t be the right pixel color)
So they did it like in 173r+/193r+: if the color changes very little
Let's say for example from 128 to 130, then they quickly open or close completely
blinds (or finally in the opposite color - I don’t remember exactly) and then quickly
turn the blinds to color 130 using this double method... Switch the speed like this
image grows exponentially, but this same flickering appears :) Just like that. Yes
what Comrade Kladov - you have a very good matrix in your laptop...
By the way, the only thing better than this gnusmas 173r+ is viewsonic va702 (193r+ - va902
respectively). First of all, by the number of displayed colors, by saturation
black, for redrawing, and most importantly - for the price!!!
There is also a 4ms viewonic - but it doesn’t have much color, etc. shorter than MSecunds - no
a special indicator - in TFT and without them it’s a bit of a mess for a gourmet. Especially to those who
works with color... No, people took Monica A class in a printing house with terriblenames like EIZO, mitsubishi and some Makov radii or something
colorvisions - yes, prices there start at 1500. And he’ll buy himself a simple Soviet one
a guy with a salary of up to 300 is such a monique???
So there are good ones, cheap ones and fast ones - choose any 2 :)
Hello, Witch Doctor
Well, what about tables of extreme points for quick recalculation - can you give more details?