Language PL/M. Possibility of use.
ZXNet echo conference «code.zx»
Hello, All
Who is familiar with the subject...
I'm interested in the possibility of using it to develop programs.
A search on the Internet gives only general phrases, in the style of “was like that”, more detailed
no information :(
Maybe someone has documentation in electronic form, or maybe someone has a compiler
I have it lying around... Please share!
Hello jdigreze
I don’t know what PL/M is, but the first link on Google says:
> PLM2C is a compiler/translator which accepts PL/M sources files and
> produces the corresponding ANSI C or K&R C source files ready to be
> compiled with a C compiler. The resultant C source code embodies the
> functionality of the original PL/M source code while adhering to
> modern C coding style.
i.e. compiler. it really seems like they want money ;)
and if you follow the links a little further, then in some Wikipedia there is a link to
document in PDF.
I don’t know what search engine you searched in, but this is another reason to use Google
;)
and most importantly, I’m wondering: what does this have to do with
Spectrum? :confused:
Hello jdigreze
There is no subject for spec.
here is the wiki -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL/M
here is the document -> http://www.slac.stanford.edu/grp/cd/soft/rmx/manuals/PLM_386.PDF
and here is the syntax in BHF -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus-Naur_Form
True, I realized that PL/M are named according to the versions of the processors for which they are tailored.
and here's another google-sponsored-link ->
> Auto migration of PL/M 51,80,86,96, 186,286,386 code to "C." Free
> run.
> http://www.mpsinc.com/plm.htm
True, these are again compilers in C (although you should be interested in PL/M 80 to
PL/M 186)
Having rewritten the search string a bit, we find the cross compiler
http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/Cpm/building.html
> This site also contains a PL/M compiler, which runs in an ISIS
> emulator under DOS.
and here he is -> http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html
In general, you need to look better ;)
Hello, Maksagor
no, if it’s PL/1, then it’s the infamous Programming Language One.
like a language in which they tried to provide for everything ^_~
but as usual it turned out that writing on it is quite difficult - tons
functions, mountains of documentation.
overall the experience was not a success ^_~
Hello Sinus
You shouldn’t be saying that, the experience wasn’t entirely a failure... I really loved writing in this language. All
anything could be done. What I liked most was that the compiler
automatically tried to correct syntax (and other!) programmer errors
(reporting everyone, of course). The features of the batch mode of operation required
so that the compiler stops not as soon as it encounters one or two errors, but after
Possibilities combed the entire listing. They don't make things like that anymore :)
Why didn’t PL/1 go further - it really turned out to be too complicated for
study, for implementation on other platforms, and is too overloaded with different
super-opportunities. But: this is definitely not a language for microcomputers :) PL/M is not
bad, but I think Pascal (subset) would be better for the Spectrum.
Hello Sinus
Thank you very much!!
I'll look into the links... (I probably looked for the wrong keywords...)
Hello Sinus
I searched on Google, I didn’t notice any links to pdf in the wiki... or it’s not something there
need...
The attitude towards the Spectrum is most likely indirect, one thing I can say is that CP/M is written
just on PL/M. And I'm interested in whether there is a subject for the spec, and documents on it.
I'll probably have to make a visit to the city library.
Hello jdigreze
Also on my website in the TRD image under CP/M:
http://atmturbo.nedopc.com/download/cpm/lang/pl1/pl1.zip
I really don’t know, it says PL/1. Is this the same as PL/M or not?
(question for everyone)
Hello, Vladimir Kladov
May I ask where you found the PL/1 compiler?
maybe this exists for PC x86?
It would just be interesting to try it myself, maybe my opinion will change then
;)
PS and modern compilers do not stop when they encounter 1-2 errors, they
they try to “recover” and move on, it’s just that there’s usually a limit on mistakes
20-30, because after “restoring” the compiler can produce such garbage ;)
I remember the pre-Soviet Watcom C 10.0.... it was evil, 100 wrong errors due to the omission
semicolons after the class declaration ;)
but GCC and MSVC are completely okay.
Ouch! :p where is the Spectrum? but I think they won't kill me :)
Hello, Maksagor
> posted on my website.
Where exactly? I hope not on the “people”, otherwise they don’t like us.
As for PL/1, quoting Zakhoder
"I haven't seen a viper for a long time
but somehow I wasn’t bored when we were apart"
I remember writing on it in the early 80s for the EU, aka IBM360. Didn't make an impression
after Pascal. And PL/M may be okay, but I suspect that C is still better.
Over the course of 20 years, compilers have been completely perfected.
Hello alexfreed
may be, may be...
but! I try to adhere to this rule: “a programmer is not someone who can
write programs, and the one who knows how to choose the right tool for solving
tasks." :)
Some problems are easier and more efficient to solve in asm, some in C or C++, and
PL/M may be useful for some...
5 years ago I crossed the barrier of stubbornness in one programming language, now
I choose the most suitable one for each task, and so that there is plenty to choose from,
I try to expand my knowledge base by learning new languages and approaches to
programming...
Hello jdigreze
jdi> 5 years ago I crossed the barrier of stubbornness into one language
jdi> programming, now I choose the more suitable one for each task
jdi> and in order to have plenty to choose from, I try to replenish my knowledge base
jdi> learning new languages and approaches to programming...
I think many will agree with me, for the Spectrum there is little choice.
The best case would be to use C, but more often than not it ends up with ASM.
Regarding PL/I and PL/M, I have both, but:
- PL/I runs under CP/M and, given this, is only suitable for
those Spectrum clones where it is supported;
- PL/M is a cross-compiler for IBM/360, launched on a PC in the ISIS environment.
By the way, CP/M was written on it, by my respected Harry Kildall.
(He developed it as a programming tool for the I8080
based on PL/I standards and then sold to INTEL.)
Hello Sinus
Sin> can I ask where you found the PL/1 compiler?
Sin> maybe this exists for PC x86?
Sin> it would just be interesting to try it myself, maybe my opinion then
Sin> will change ;)
Sin>
And I got it from MicroART, in a software package for CP/M for
ATM-turbo 1,2,2+. I took from them indiscriminately everything that was there, then drove it
I put all this into images and posted it on my website.
Hello alexfreed
ale> And where exactly? I hope not with the “people”, otherwise they don’t like us.
ale>
ale> As for PL/1, quoting Zakhoder
ale> "I haven't seen a viper for a long time
ale> but somehow I wasn’t bored while apart"
ale>
ale> I remember writing on it in the early 80s for the EU, aka IBM360. Did not produce
ale> impressions
ale> after Pascal. And PL/M may be nothing, but I suspect that C doesn’t care
ale> is better.
ale> Over the course of 20 years, compilers have been completely perfected.
I gave a direct link a few postings earlier. I will repeat again:
http://atmturbo.nedopc.com/download/cpm/lang/pl1/pl1.zip
But I meant PL/1, not PL/M. And if anyone has PL/M under CP/M (which
it turns out to be a pun!), I’ll be glad if you send it.
Hello, Maksagor
> I gave a direct link a few postings earlier. I will repeat again:
Sorry - I slowed down.
But I decided to ask Google what it knows about PL/M. It turned out - to hell.
For example, the source code of the Intel compiler:
http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html
There are also CP/M sources of all stripes and much more.
Hello jdigreze
jdi> Once upon a time I learned dBaseII on MSX-2, I wonder if there is a port for
jdi> spec, and is it really possible to do it??? Now, probably, this is no longer relevant
jdi> but 10 years ago, I would have found a use for it...
On any Spectrum with CP/M support, this is the version that works
dBaseII, which you saw on the MSX-2.
You can try it on the Quorum emulator, I’ll upload a disk image if necessary.